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Windows 10 won't run some older CD-ROM games, thanks to DRM #1028656
08/18/15 09:48 PM
08/18/15 09:48 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 625
Florida
Donald Offline OP
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Donald  Offline OP
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Windows 10 won't run some older CD-ROM games, thanks to DRM

Windows 10 won't run some older CD-ROM games, thanks to DRM

Re: Windows 10 won't run some older CD-ROM games, thanks to DRM [Re: Donald] #1028677
08/18/15 11:17 PM
08/18/15 11:17 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 20,105
Near St. Louis, MO
Draclvr Offline
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That's kind of nothing new... Windows 7 wouldn't run games with SecuRom and you had to update drivers for other DRM. Don't know if I've run into SafeDisc DRM. It's being kind of hit and miss with my game testing, but I'm finding a lot of old CD games are running just fine on Windows 10. I'm trying to add to the Windows 10 and Games thread as I can.


Once again, weeds are my life!
Re: Windows 10 won't run some older CD-ROM games, thanks to DRM [Re: Donald] #1028689
08/19/15 04:19 AM
08/19/15 04:19 AM
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Upsydaisy Offline
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You can add Caesar IV-works fine on Windows 10-couldn't find the thread. thumbsup

Re: Windows 10 won't run some older CD-ROM games, thanks to DRM [Re: Donald] #1028704
08/19/15 09:24 AM
08/19/15 09:24 AM
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Posts: 20,105
Near St. Louis, MO
Draclvr Offline
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Upsydaisy, the Windows 10 and Games thread is stickied at the top of the Glitches forum. I will add it to the list! Is this a download or a CD?


Once again, weeds are my life!
Re: Windows 10 won't run some older CD-ROM games, thanks to DRM [Re: Donald] #1028724
08/19/15 12:33 PM
08/19/15 12:33 PM
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southeast USA
Jenny100 Offline
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He doesn't mention using NoCD's, such as those that allow certain StarForce-infected games to be played on Vista and later versions of Windows. Vista and later Windows prevent the invasive low level StarForce drivers from being installed, so all you need is the NoCD. However with XP, you have to install the NoCD before starting the game for the first time in order for the NoCD to work. I think this was the case for some other copy "protections" but I'm not sure which -- you had to use the NoCD before the first time you ran the game.

The problem with using NoCD's is finding one from a reliable source. Often they are flagged by antivirus for one reason or another, even if they don't actually contain a real virus or other malware. You also usually need a NoCD for your exact version of the game for it to work. Update a game from version 1.0 to 1.1 and the NoCD for version 1.0 will no longer work. And NoCD's for UK versions of games won't always work for North American versions. It's rare that publishers actually offer "patches" that remove the copy "protection," though IIRC there were patches of this sort for Vampyre Story and Myst IV.

It's a mistake to confuse the early versions of SafeDisc and SecuROM from around 1998 with the later versions. SecuROM wasn't nearly as invasive until Sony got hold of it and turned it into something with rootkit-like behavior. Sony's SecuROM also combined disc-based DRM with online activation until it got ridiculous. Wikipedia lists some of the restrictions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SecuROM


For too long people assumed disc-based copy "protection" (aka disc-based DRM) wasn't a problem unless they personally were affected in a way they could clearly see. Copy "protection" companies avoided bad press by hiding themselves or placing blame on the developer. Instead of an "Insert CD" message like they used to have in the late 1990's to early 2000's, the game simply wouldn't start and would give no reason. So unless a gamer knew the copy "protection" functioned in this way, they would probably blame the game developers.

Even worse was when copy "protection" companies introduced "trigger functions" -- A failed disc check would allow the game to play, but introduce more and more bugs until the game was unplayable. This "feature" was actually advertised on the websites of the copy "protection" companies, who were advertising to publishers. When the copy "protection" failed, games would become increasingly buggy until unplayable, and gamers usually blamed the developers for producing a buggy game instead of putting the blame where it belonged -- on the copy "protection." You would see gamers complaining about how the first part of their game played perfectly, but then suddenly everything seemed to go wrong. This happened in legitimately purchased versions of the game, and since there was never an "Insert CD" type of message at the beginning, the gamer didn't suspect the copy "protection."

And the copy "protection" junk that affected the rest of your computer and your other games would be left behind even after the infected game was uninstalled. SecuROM had an "uninstaller" but though it removed the SecuROM, it would install other junk on your hard drive. Your best bet for getting rid of their junk was reinstalling Windows, or reimaging Windows if you had a disk image that was made before installing the SecuROM-infected game.

Originally Posted By: Draclvr
That's kind of nothing new... Windows 7 wouldn't run games with SecuRom and you had to update drivers for other DRM.

Initially at least, Windows 7 games did run with SecuROM, though it's certainly possible that Windows updates blocked the installation of the SecuROM drivers at some point. It was StarForce v3 that didn't work on Vista and later versions of Windows. But the failure of a SecuROM v7+ infected game to run on Windows 7 could be due to a wide variety of things other than Windows 7 itself -- the CD drive doesn't spin or read at the expected rate, the computer contains legitimate software on the hard drive that happens to be blacklisted (like Nero and Sysinternals tools), the SecuROM conflicts with another game's DRM, in some cases a firewall might block the SecuROM from "phoning home" causing it to fail, etc.

Originally Posted By: Draclvr
Upsydaisy, the Windows 10 and Games thread is stickied at the top of the Glitches forum. I will add it to the list! Is this a download or a CD?

And was the game played from start to finish or only for 15 minutes? If a game contains DRM trigger functions any DRM-produced bugs wouldn't show up until later. According to GCW, the 2006 UK version of Caesar IV uses SecuROM v7 and/or online activation. This version is in the date range for including trigger functions that show up later in the game.

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