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Skyrim Modding Stuff - Continued #1082827
09/19/16 09:34 AM
09/19/16 09:34 AM
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Transferring some of the Skyrim mod postings from the "What Are We Playing" topic to here:

Originally Posted By: hagatha

EDIT: Question for TrailMystic: My existing game of Skyrim contains one or two mods from 4 years ago. These mods worked perfectly and my game ran beautifully. I didn't have to download a mod manager at that time, I'm fairly certain.

I would like to add the mods you suggested above. Do I just download the Nexus manager and then install the mods? Am I going to have problems given that my game already has a few small mods installed?

If a clean install is preferred, how do I go about it? Steam of course, just downloaded my game as it was 4 years ago.

I'd like to use some of the larger mods, but frankly a problem-free game is more important.


Apologies for the size of this reply Hagatha, I started thinking about the fact that there maybe a number of other players who don't have experience with mods and decided to hit several caveats in this post. I'm typing this a bit fast because I'm at work, so hopefully it's not too confusing. I'm thinking that I should maybe revise and expand this into a kind of "Trail's Skyrim Mod Guide" and make it a sticky for later use. You really shouldn't hit issues if you're only running a few mods, have all the pre-req's and start with a clean game (by clean game I don't mean re-installing Skyrim, I mean just starting a new game) - So, don't be put off by the amount of info I'm relating. Some of the stuff I cover are kind of "preemptive strikes" against potential issues when running really big mods or a larger volume of them.

I'm guessing you used mods from the Steam workshop? If you are still subscribed to those mods and they are still active on the Workshop then they should still be in your Data files. Personally, when loading larger mods like the Interesting NPC's I would go with a new game, but you don't need to reinstall Skyrim unless you hit some major issues. For mods from the Nexus, I would recommend using the newest stable version of Nexus Mod Manager . While it does occasionally have it's idiosyncrasies, I find it the easiest to use. Also, the majority of mod makers on the Nexus use the Best Practice Standards adopted for the Nexus Mod Manager, which makes for more consistent downloads and file usage. NMM also has a feature that you run manually, which indicates if the mod has been updated. In some cases though, it may just be that the mod author has loaded an optional file as a patch for another mod. I usually don't update mods during a single play through. My philosophy has been, if I can find the mod on the Nexus I'll use that rather than the Steam Workshop because the authors seem to update their mods more regularly there.

If you're planning on running mods from both the Workshop and Nexus I would also suggest downloading and running LOOT to manage the load order.

Personally, I have a number of mods through both the Steam Workshop (because they are not available on the Nexus) and about a hundred through the Nexus Mod Manager. I do have CTD's about once every three playing sessions if they are over 2-3 hours in length each, but it's usually attributed to Skyrim's less than optimized use of memory. That same inherent "feature" of Skyrim is also the cause of the "infinite loading screen" which can occasionally occur when running larger mods through the Skyrim Script Extender (SKSE) I know a couple of workarounds for that, so if you ever hit it let me know (or I can put them in the aforementioned guide if I ever get around to writing it grin)


Always check the mods prerequisites - Something I'm assuming (and maybe I shouldn't do that) is that most mod users have loaded the Unofficial Patches. Those are usually a pre-req for the larger mods and are required for Arthmoors "Cutting Room Floor mod."

Just recently, as of July of this year, Arthmoor revamped the patches into the Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Patch This is a combined patch that hits Skyrim and all the DLC. The caveat of course is that you must have all the DLC loaded in order for it to work right. If not you'll have to go with the older, individual patches which he is no longer supporting. That shouldn't be a big deal though because they were quite stable and actually several of his mods can be run with the older versions including Cutting Room Floor.

At any rate, many of the larger more popular mods have modified their files to accommodate the legendary patch. So, if you aren't running that patch and it's required by the mod then you'll need to uninstall the older patches, install the legendary and then download/install your mods.

If you want to get into the really big mods that require the installation of SKSE, I would highly recommend using Gopher's method to loading SKSE with NMM His instructions are a few years old, but are still the best out there and apply to the current structures.

Another good utility to use is when you plan on running the really big or complex mods is the TES5Edit to Clean Your Master Files(another instructional vid by Gopher.) This is because Bethesda's developers didn't take into account potential file conflicts with mods when building Skyrim and left in a bunch of garbage files. Gopher's process is good to do even if you just plan on running average sized mods just as a precaution.

Also, when running larger mods, I suggest that you tweak the Auto-Save function to every 5 minutes. That way if you do have a crash it's not as much of an impact (pun intended grin )

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted By: hagatha
Sooo. I have no patches installed, or at least certainly no unofficial patches. I just bought and (I think) installed all of the available DLC (I'll check after this).

It sounds to me as though I should: Install the Unofficial Legendary Patch, and then the Nexus Mod Manager. I'd just not use any more mods from the Steam workshop.

And then as an added precuation, the tessEDIT.

Are these autoinstall, or do I need to futz around with stuff? It's going to be raining tomorrow, so I'll some time.

And yes, I'd start a new game.


You'll want to install Nexus Mod Manager first, because you can use that to install the Unofficial Patch. There is some futzing with TES5Edit and NMM, but it's fairly simple. Now, I might have these steps mixed up a bit, but it won't matter because the NMM install wizard will walk you through the proces. With NMM it will search your system for games for which it can manage mods. It will detect all the Elder Scrolls games, the Bethesda versions of Fallout and the Dragon Age games as well as several others. Just click the check marks after it does it's search if the locations it displays for the game files looks right. Then it will ask you where it should store mods and the extracted files. I would go with the default locations unless you have a specific disk you want them located on. Once that's all done, it will also detect any files you're using through the Steam Workshop. Those will be located in the Plugins tab.

Next install TES5Edit and run the Master File cleaning process that Gopher walks you through at the link I posted in my previous comment.

Here's an installation vid on TES5Edit.. You can stop watching at the 2:05 mark because he goes into installing the utility into Mod Organizer, which is different from NMM. TES5Edit is downloaded in a zipped file that you can extract using something like 7zip or WinRAR Once you've installed TES5Edit, you can either make a shortcut of the .exe file and drop it in your start menu or task bar, or you can go through the steps to have it listed in the NMM utilities drop-down. I just run it from a shortcut in my start menu because I don't always need to have NMM open when cleaning the master files. Also, you only need to clean the master files after installing or reinstalling the game. It doesn't need to be done prior to every mod activation.

After that, then you can download and install the Legendary patch and any others you would like. I would still install LOOT, a good load order, even with a few mods won't hurt.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I feel a lot more like I do now, then when I first got here

Re: Skyrim Modding Stuff - Continued [Re: Trail_Mystic] #1082848
09/19/16 11:48 AM
09/19/16 11:48 AM
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Thanks, Trail, that will make it easier to find on search. thanks


"Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole."
-Roger Caras
Re: Skyrim Modding Stuff - Continued [Re: Trail_Mystic] #1082853
09/19/16 12:35 PM
09/19/16 12:35 PM
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So far, so good. I am now perusing mods from NEXUS, and there are a lot of them.

Next on my list is the map mod, which shows all of the roads in Skyrim for those days when you try going up a mountain and somehow end up in a swamp on the other side of the world instead.


I think I'm quite ready for another adventure.
Re: Skyrim Modding Stuff - Continued [Re: hagatha] #1082887
09/19/16 06:17 PM
09/19/16 06:17 PM
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Yep, once you start learning the ropes, it becomes an addiction. lol

One thing that's helped me is to keep a log of when I downloaded and activated mods. That way if I start to get CTD's or other issues I can start working backwards, deactivating mods until I figure out which one is causing the issue. That makes it easier to follow-up on the forum if you have at least an idea what's causing the conflict.

I still need to work on that TES5Edit instruction set, so good to hear you're not having issues at the moment; knock on wood *taps on head* Might be a bit before I get it it. Real life just needs to back down a bit. grin


I feel a lot more like I do now, then when I first got here

Re: Skyrim Modding Stuff - Continued [Re: Trail_Mystic] #1082889
09/19/16 06:54 PM
09/19/16 06:54 PM
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I don't plan to download a lot just yet. Just some basics.

How do I know if my downloaded mods are active? Do I have to make them active, or have they just installed into the game?


I think I'm quite ready for another adventure.
Re: Skyrim Modding Stuff - Continued [Re: hagatha] #1082902
09/19/16 08:40 PM
09/19/16 08:40 PM
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Open NMM and the mod should be in its related catagory. It will have a green check mark to the left of it's name. If not, just double-click on the name and it will activate.


I feel a lot more like I do now, then when I first got here

Re: Skyrim Modding Stuff - Continued [Re: Trail_Mystic] #1082982
09/20/16 12:35 PM
09/20/16 12:35 PM
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All installed.

Now for the time being I'm avoiding any mod that seems to require extra thinking before installation, or foofing around in the installation process. If it's a direct download/install, I'll do it. But anything that has a bazillion cautions and unclear installation instructions (the map mod, unfortunately) is an avoid.

Part of it is that the Powers that Be thought that tiny red script against a dark background would be just the ticket! And even with my glasses on I can't read it! Which stinks! smashpc


I think I'm quite ready for another adventure.
Re: Skyrim Modding Stuff - Continued [Re: hagatha] #1082989
09/20/16 03:26 PM
09/20/16 03:26 PM
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Remember to run LOOT after adding new mods. That will help keep your load order in shape.


I feel a lot more like I do now, then when I first got here

Re: Skyrim Modding Stuff - Continued [Re: Trail_Mystic] #1083000
09/20/16 03:54 PM
09/20/16 03:54 PM
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Hagatha,

I'm the same as you. I went ahead and got Skyrim a few days ago and downloaded only the basic Mods required for enhanced character creation along with SkyUI, the latest patch and LOOT. I saw some nice mods but the longer the page, the more instructions, the more required additional mods to make it functional, and the more warnings - the quicker I ran away.

It's a daunting learning curve for someone who's only played point and click adventure games for decades! Learning all the keyboard controls that first day or two - OY!! The action fighting absolutely throws me for a loop, but Wow - what a game! Very complex and huge open world! Now I understand why many have thousands of hours in this game!

Re: Skyrim Modding Stuff - Continued [Re: Trail_Mystic] #1083014
09/20/16 07:59 PM
09/20/16 07:59 PM
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LadyCav,

Make sure you understand how to set your hotkeys for combat. It took me ages to figure this out, but it makes combat so much easier -- especially when you get ambushed by a dragon just as you come staggering out of a dungeon, badly wounded and barely holding enough potions to make it home.

I have not downloaded LOOT, and I guess it's time.

Last edited by hagatha; 09/20/16 07:59 PM.

I think I'm quite ready for another adventure.
Re: Skyrim Modding Stuff - Continued [Re: Trail_Mystic] #1083040
09/20/16 10:02 PM
09/20/16 10:02 PM
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Hagatha,

Yup!! I got so flustered and anxious when attacked by three powerful sorcerers that I froze. Then couldn't find the right weapon to replace bow and arrow and went to magic and back to weapons, and by the time all that was done, Lydia was dead. Thank Talos for earlier saves. Whew! (I really suck at action games). But I got my SkyUI hotkeys set up just today, leaving room for a few better weapons as I progress further in the game. I fully admit to invoking tgm mode when attacked by a dragon, a giant and a mammoth at the same time! Yikes! I would have been dead 50 times over without tgm mode. This Noob needs that extra help.

I have read in multiple places that LOOT is very important. And it's very easy to use. Just look for Gopher's videos on you tube.

Re: Skyrim Modding Stuff - Continued [Re: LadyCav] #1083109
09/21/16 01:11 PM
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Yup, Dragons are crazy hard in the lower levels. I usually try to find some kind of cover or bob and weave to stay out of the way of their fire-frost breath while lobbing arrows or spells at them. Try not to get locked in place, the more you get used to moving around during combat the better you'll do against later tougher opponents. I know it's hard to believe, but the dragons you are fighting now are fairly run of the mill. They will start to level up and change appearance as your character progresses. The pantheon of dragons in Skyrim is actually pretty diverse. Have fun! grin


I feel a lot more like I do now, then when I first got here

Re: Skyrim Modding Stuff - Continued [Re: Trail_Mystic] #1083149
09/21/16 08:35 PM
09/21/16 08:35 PM
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I've managed to take out three dragons fairly easily. The one battle that killed Lydia was the Boss in one of the dragon claw dungeons (the glass claw) and I had to use a pretty cheesy tactic to finish that battle -- lots of cutting and running and a LOT of potions. Then out the back door we go -- and there's a dragon! And thank heaven for autosaves, because Lydia went down with a full load of high-value stuff. There was no way I was shlepping back and forth with it all, so we tried again. Who knew dragons are vulnerable to poison? Well, they really are. Five or six rounds of arrows with poison from the balcony while Lydia whanged away with her Greatsword-of-Whatever, and down it went.

I can't get my head around LOOT for some reason. Too many instructions, tiny letters that are difficult to read. I'll have to wait until I have a day where I feel normal enough to tackle it.


I think I'm quite ready for another adventure.
Re: Skyrim Modding Stuff - Continued [Re: hagatha] #1083153
09/21/16 09:31 PM
09/21/16 09:31 PM
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Hagatha, don't worry about all the text and extra instructions at this point.

If you haven't downloaded it already here's a link to the LOOT Installer

-I pulled the executable address so all you need to do is click the link above and your downloads window will open.

-Hit Save and the executable should save and start the installation. Just follow the install wizard and allow LOOT to open at the end of the install (the wizard will have the "Run LOOT" option checked off by default at the end of the install)

-Once LOOT is open, in the upper right hand corner, click the icon that looks like three lines, each one slightly smaller than the other (symbolizes an organized list.)

-LOOT will update it's master list, detect your mods and organize them.

-When the process is done, hit "Apply" near the top of the window and you're done.

TM grin



I feel a lot more like I do now, then when I first got here

Re: Skyrim Modding Stuff - Continued [Re: Trail_Mystic] #1083541
09/25/16 12:13 AM
09/25/16 12:13 AM
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So, thought I'd send out fair warning on a couple of bugs that have popped up just in case they are related to either of the previous mods I suggested. Since I've never experienced them before I think it might be due to the new Unofficial Patch in conflict with Amazing Follower Tweaks (AFT) OR a conflict between AFT and Interesting NPC's. Need to do some additional trouble shooting before I'm sure.

Brawls turn to real fights: Seems I can't brawl with anyone without it turning into a death match. To be on the safe side you may want to save right before a brawl in case it is one of the mods I suggested.

Apparently the Brawl vs. Death Match was an old bug that could be activated by any number of mods or by having a follower with you. I'm going to try out a fix that's on the Nexus, Modern Brawl Bug Fix This one is the updated version of the original patch. Hopefully it works. NOTE: If you are having the issue and want to try this patch, make sure it is at the end of your load order. It's made to overwrite the problem files in both the vanilla version and multiple mods that cause the issue, so it needs to load last.

UPDATE: The Brawl fix seems to be working great.

Fear/aggro in major actor NPC's locks them in mode: This has happened repeatedly to the courier and Archmage. When dragons or vampires attack they drop into a crouch. Once the attack is over, they don't come out of the aggro/fear mode. In the case of the Archmage, he apparently forgets destruction spells and only activates his Ward. He will only attack dragons hand to hand. Imagine that! lol I've found the easiest way to pop them out of the mode/correct their actions is to use the Console command recycleactor. Just bring up the console, click on the NPC so their ID pops up, type recycleactor (the lack of a space is correct) and hit enter. They will disappear from sight (I believe they go back to their original spawn point,) BUT when they reappear in the story they will be back to their old selves.



Last edited by Trail_Mystic; 09/25/16 02:26 PM.

I feel a lot more like I do now, then when I first got here

Re: Skyrim Modding Stuff - Continued [Re: Trail_Mystic] #1083579
09/25/16 12:56 PM
09/25/16 12:56 PM
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Eeeeeeek, bugs! Thanks, Trail wave


"Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole."
-Roger Caras
Re: Skyrim Modding Stuff - Continued [Re: Trail_Mystic] #1083594
09/25/16 02:54 PM
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So I've installed LOOT, and run it, it has 4 warnings, all of which are associated with the official DLC. It wants me to clean them with TESSedit. What could be wrong with those files? And then of course I go and look at TESSedit and it's again beyond me (I'm quite ill at the moment and my cognitive functions are not working very well).

I think I'll stop downloading any more mods just in case.


Last edited by hagatha; 09/25/16 03:27 PM.

I think I'm quite ready for another adventure.
Re: Skyrim Modding Stuff - Continued [Re: hagatha] #1083605
09/25/16 04:41 PM
09/25/16 04:41 PM
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Don't worry about those warnings. Not all mods are structured the same and it's not unusual to have those pop-up. Don't attempt anything with individual mods when it comes to TES5Edit. The most anyone who isn't actually writing mods needs to do is the master file clean up and unless some conflict comes up that can't be resolved you can skip that too.


I feel a lot more like I do now, then when I first got here

Re: Skyrim Modding Stuff - Continued [Re: Trail_Mystic] #1083835
09/27/16 09:20 AM
09/27/16 09:20 AM
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Confirmed that Interesting NPCs now conflicts with other follower mods including Amazing Follower Tweaks . Not only does the combination cause issues with their independent follower systems, it also breaks the vanilla follower system (when combined with other follower mods) preventing paid/hired followers from being employed. Also, if you use this with either The Tessreract or FC Kagrenacs Instant Fortress it will mess with the dialogue/menu system for both of those house mods, which is very unfortunate because those are my two favorites.

I think the issue may be something that changed in the Unofficial Patch. Since neither AFT is no longer being supported by the mod author I wouldn't recommend using it with any other mod that alters the follower system. There is an altered AFT called Immersive Amazing Follower Tweaks that has an optional Interesting NPC's patch available, but still apparently has issues with other custom follower systems. Once I fully flush out that AFT and the Vanilla follower systems are playing nicely together I'll try that out.

So, just to sum up - using the Interesting NPC mod without any other (follower) mods that alter the vanilla follower system works just fine. Using it with any other follower mods and it risks breaking the vanilla system and the mods.


I feel a lot more like I do now, then when I first got here

Re: Skyrim Modding Stuff - Continued [Re: Trail_Mystic] #1083860
09/27/16 12:26 PM
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Thanks, Trail wave


"Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole."
-Roger Caras
Re: Skyrim Modding Stuff - Continued [Re: Trail_Mystic] #1084110
09/29/16 01:06 PM
09/29/16 01:06 PM
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OK, so as opposed to ditching all my patches to try out Enderal I decided to see if I could fully work out the follower issues I was having by running several large dialogue, home and NPC mods.

I found out there is a patch for the issues between Interesting NPC's and Amazing Follower Tweaks: Proper Interesting NPC's with Amazing Follower Tweaks Patch I really like Amazing Follower Tweaks, but it can be very wonky at times. This at least works to solve almost all of the compatibility bugs between the two mods with the exception of some remaining issues with the potential follower Meresine.

I also found out that one of the vanilla follower bugs I thought was broken by the aforementioned combination was actually being impacted by a different mod altogether. Turns out the Dark Elf mercenary Janassa at the Drunken Huntsman in White Run could not be hired because of the mod: Bosmer Armor Pack which is a wonderful group of immersive armor sets.

Apparently, the other Dark Elf mercenary in Falkreth that you can find at the Dead Man's Drink Inn is a virtual clone of Janassa (naughty, lazy Bethesda shame ) , except for her facial meshes. When you install the Bosmer armor mod, the armor shows up randomly in loot and also on specific NPC's. Because it's on the Falkreath version of the dark elf mercenary (Larethia) and not on Janessa in White Run it causes an error and prevents her being hired. This issue is patched with Bosmer Armor Pack Janassa Fix Glad that worked because I've always liked Janassa's "keep to the shadows" vibe as a follower for a rogue or thief like character.

I've also downloaded Relationship Dialogue Overhaul and the author's patches for all the other large mods I'm running. It's a large mod that reworks all of the follower and a lot of the NPC dialogue using the original voice files. So far, I'm liking it. Lydia's dialogue is definitely less two dimensional. We'll see how long all these mods play nice together... grin


I feel a lot more like I do now, then when I first got here

Re: Skyrim Modding Stuff - Continued [Re: Trail_Mystic] #1084113
09/29/16 01:36 PM
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That all makes my head spin. Thanks for sharing! I'm glad you are having fun!


"Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole."
-Roger Caras
Re: Skyrim Modding Stuff - Continued [Re: looney4labs] #1084117
09/29/16 01:48 PM
09/29/16 01:48 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,919
Hogwarts
Trail_Mystic Offline OP
Dragon Breath - Darkside Moderator
Trail_Mystic  Offline OP
Dragon Breath - Darkside Moderator
BAAG Specialist

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,919
Hogwarts
Yep, once you get over 20 mods including some of the bigger ones things can get a little complicated. With the ones I've just added I'm running 115 mods (including patches), which seems huge, but I've seen folks on the Nexus forums running 200+ mods. crazy


I feel a lot more like I do now, then when I first got here

Re: Skyrim Modding Stuff - Continued [Re: Trail_Mystic] #1084225
09/30/16 11:33 AM
09/30/16 11:33 AM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 8,105
B.C. Canada
hagatha Offline
BAAG Specialist
hagatha  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 8,105
B.C. Canada
Makes my head spin, too, but when I can focus well enough I'll be back in the game and maybe take a closer look. So far I've had no issues with my game except for one ctd, and I remember those from before. I would really like to add a few more things.


I think I'm quite ready for another adventure.
Re: Skyrim Modding Stuff - Continued [Re: hagatha] #1084267
09/30/16 07:03 PM
09/30/16 07:03 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,919
Hogwarts
Trail_Mystic Offline OP
Dragon Breath - Darkside Moderator
Trail_Mystic  Offline OP
Dragon Breath - Darkside Moderator
BAAG Specialist

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,919
Hogwarts
Yep, I've had CTD's occasionally even with vanilla Skyrim, although mods do push the memory handling capability of the game, which wasn't that great to begin with to it's limits. I've basically accepted the occasional CTD and just switch to saving every 5 minutes as a default. Usually happens to me after fast traveling or during an Autosave when entering a new area that requires additional load time.

Sorry to hear/read that you're having issues focusing Hagatha, hope it's nothing serious. I can empathize, been dealing with a nasty flu for the last week and not the fastest draw in the west right now. grin


I feel a lot more like I do now, then when I first got here

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