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Re: Installation instructions for vintage "Rome: Caesar's Will" on Windows 8 [Re: RichAlexis] #1113016
06/06/17 05:56 PM
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Thanks for the replies! Well, I try to express myself as cautiously as possible, and I'm still on a learning curve, so I still need to check out lists of more recent adventure games to "play before you die". wink Like the list of 29 essential games posted in the general discussion section.

Yes, I was thinking of Dear Esther and some others as counterexamples.

I was referring, indeed, to the lack of bigger budgets and the fact that dozens of the companies that started and defined the genre, and employed a variety of very dedicated and talented people (graphic artists, historians, novelists, composers) have sadly gone bankrupt.

I just found two quotes on Wikipedia from a few years ago by LucasArts developers Ron Gilbert and Tim Schafer that illustrate my point:
Quote:
"From first-hand experience, I can tell you that if you even utter the words 'adventure game' in a meeting with a publisher you can just pack up your spiffy concept art and leave. You'd get a better reaction by announcing that you have the plague."

"If I were to go to a publisher right now and pitch an adventure game, they'd laugh in my face."

Best,

Rich

Re: Installation instructions for vintage "Rome: Caesar's Will" on Windows 8 [Re: RichAlexis] #1113105
06/07/17 02:37 PM
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I suppose it boils down to what you are looking for in an Adventure game ??

I have to admit that graphics are not the most important element for me.
I will look for storyline and friendly interface first.
So I don't need, for example, to be walking down a street in ancient times with accurately portrayed animated humans, wildlife, weather effects or flora & fauna etc, etc. wink

Which is probably why I haven’t felt deprived of good Adventure games during the last seventeen years, despite their “marginalization”.

However, like everyone else, I, too obviously lament the departure of the big name companies that once gave us such excellent games.

But speaking of Ron Gilbert ….
I am currently playing his new game - Thimbleweed Park - which although in the retro style of very early games like Monkey Island, I am finding it to be just plain excellent old school adventuring thumbsup


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Re: Installation instructions for vintage "Rome: Caesar's Will" on Windows 8 [Re: Mad] #1113118
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Originally Posted By: Mad
But speaking of Ron Gilbert ….
I am currently playing his new game - Thimbleweed Park - which although in the retro style of very early games like Monkey Island, I am finding it to be just plain excellent old school adventuring thumbsup
I see what you mean, Mad!

Speaking of lists of recent favourites, some weeks ago, someone posted on a Dutch game site that the Syberia 3 release was a big disappointment, but that fortunately there were enough new classy graphic adventure games around, like Thimbleweed Park, as you mentioned, Silence and What Remains of Edith Finch.

Each of these indeed looks very promising, both storywise and graphically, though as you say the deliberate retro style of TP may put some people off.

Best,

Rich

Re: Installation instructions for vintage "Rome: Caesar's Will" on Windows 8 [Re: RichAlexis] #1113143
06/07/17 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted By: Mad
I suppose it boils down to what you are looking for in an Adventure game ??

Well, we were mostly talking about historical adventure games in this thread. And as Rich Alexis said, it's possible to create much more realistic environments now than companies in the 1990's like Cryo could with the "Visit" modes in games like Pompeii (Timescape) or Egypt.

Quote:
I have to admit that graphics are not the most important element for me.

Unlike adventure games like Thimbleweed, historical games could benefit more from more realistic depictions that show more detail. We're talking about next-generation Cryo/Arxel/Wanadoo historical games, not next-generation LucasArts. The needs are different.

Re: Installation instructions for vintage "Rome: Caesar's Will" on Windows 8 [Re: Jenny100] #1113169
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Quote:
Unlike adventure games like Thimbleweed, historical games could benefit more from more realistic depictions that show more detail. We're talking about next-generation Cryo/Arxel/Wanadoo historical games, not next-generation LucasArts. The needs are different.

It would certainly help improve my screen recordings of Visit Modes and the like for educational purposes in the classroom! wink Not that students were dismissive about them and other simulation graphics made about 15-20 years ago, from what I've heard. That's always a good thing to hear, that children needn't always be given the latest gadget or hype, like 4K resolution graphics, to keep them interested. In fact, a case can be made for the opposite as well, as long as you as a teacher show commitment, personal attention and insight, and provide a compelling narrative.

I think the educational potential of historical, strategy and simulation games has always been there, but is difficult to achieve in a school setting, and can hardly have improved sales for these companies substantially. Schools have always been understaffed and underfunded as far as technical investments and support are concerned, and in my own experience, investments in multimedia for students have always been problematic, not just because of the price tags, but also the need for ongoing maintenance and control, and also because, as we have noted, their notoriously short lifespans due to reliance on specific platform versions and third-party applications, and the unstable financial basis of these niche companies.

Add to this issues with saving and hacking (or similarly destructive or disruptive tendencies in a number of children) in a multiplayer school setting, and I can see why it's far easier to rely on books or makeshift media copies than on a complex high tech infrastructure.

The same goes for museums and other public exhibitions. Media displays are often out of order because of lack of funding and support, technical instability and vulnerability to abuse.

Therefore their potential is rarely realized.

Best,

Rich


Re: Installation instructions for vintage "Rome: Caesar's Will" on Windows 8 [Re: RichAlexis] #1113249
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Quote:

Unlike adventure games like Thimbleweed, historical games could benefit more from more realistic depictions that show more detail. We're talking about next-generation Cryo/Arxel/Wanadoo historical games, not next-generation LucasArts. The needs are different.


Yes, I acknowledge the general theme of this thread Jenny100, although it has wondered off track a little, but I deem it rather unlikely that a next-generation Cryo, Arxel or Wanadoo historical game project is on the cards, certainly not for the near future anyway, so I would repeat my note about graphics not being the most important thing in a game for me .... Because I would very happily play an interesting and historically accurate "edutainment" game with only rudimentary graphics IF the storyline was strong and IF the interface was player friendly.

My mention of Thimbleweed Park was only a nod to game that doesn't have fantastic "all singing all dancing" graphics but which is still an excellent play. I wasn't at all intending that LucasArts be compared with the likes of Cryo, Arxel or Wanadoo.


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Re: Installation instructions for vintage "Rome: Caesar's Will" on Windows 8 [Re: Mad] #1113290
06/09/17 01:31 AM
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Originally Posted By: Mad
I would very happily play an interesting and historically accurate "edutainment" game with only rudimentary graphics IF the storyline was strong and IF the interface was player friendly.

I think you'd be in a minority. What would a "historical game" that used pixel art have over the historical games that Cryo/Arxel/Wanadoo already produced? It's been done before -- in higher resolution than pixel art -- and it failed because it was too much like a picture book instead of a living world.

Re: Installation instructions for vintage "Rome: Caesar's Will" on Windows 8 [Re: Jenny100] #1113343
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Originally Posted By: Jenny100
Well, we were mostly talking about historical adventure games in this thread. We're talking about next-generation Cryo/Arxel/Wanadoo historical games, not next-generation LucasArts. The needs are different.

Definitely, but is there really such a sharp division? Aren't there many hybrids?

For instance, fantasy based on Tolkien or Arthurian legends often mixes historical details of medieval societies (knights, castles, druids, monks, blacksmiths) with fictional characters like wizards, elves, fairies and dragons. Also, Cryo's Atlantis series used some rather realistic vignettes based on civilizations like the Inuit, Easter Island, Imperial China, early Christian Ireland, Mayan culture, Pharaonic Egypt etc. framed by the myth of Atlantis.

Which would imply both target audiences can overlap, and will share expectations of fluid animations, attention to detail, believable settings etc.

Best,

Rich

Re: Installation instructions for vintage "Rome: Caesar's Will" on Windows 8 [Re: RichAlexis] #1113355
06/09/17 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted By: RichAlexis
For instance, fantasy based on Tolkien or Arthurian legends often mixes historical details of medieval societies (knight, castles, druids, monks, blacksmiths) with fictional characters like wizards, elves, fairies and dragons. Also, Cryo's Atlantis series used some rather realistic vignettes based on civilizations like the Inuit, Easter Island, Imperial China, early Christian Ireland, Mayan culture, Pharaonic Egypt etc. framed by the myth of Atlantis.

I don't know of any fantasies at all that don't borrow from real life (either the past or legends from the past). That includes both drawing from ancient mythologies and depiction of trades like blacksmithing.

But using references from the past in a fantasy is very different from inserting fantasy aspects into something you're claiming is an accurate depiction of life in another century. Are you going to claim people in medieval times actually rode dragons?

No one would claim the Atlantis games were accurate historical representations simply because there were aspects that echoed something from history or legend.

Originally Posted By: RichAlexis
but is there really such a sharp division?

The only case I can think of where there is not a sharp division is something like Egypt III, where places like the "World of Isis" were based on Egyptian mythology and weren't mixed with other mythologies or a complete invention by the writers. The World of Isis and the Egyptian gods were real to the Egyptian people of that time.

Re: Installation instructions for vintage "Rome: Caesar's Will" on Windows 8 [Re: RichAlexis] #1113373
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What I was trying to say, in support, was that precisely as historical (fact-based) fiction, and fantasy with historical elements often overlap (and as you point out, mythology is often perceived as very real by civilizations, like religious convictions even now), I don't see why game companies wouldn't invest in games that were a bit heavier on historical accuracy than on fairytale elements.

When developed and promoted well, with modern graphics and production values, these could still be successful. Even though, as I argued, the didactic element is rarely effective in a purely didactic (school) setting.

If National Geographic, the BBC, HBO and the History Channel can produce profitable dramatized documentaries, why can't IT companies invest in something like that in game format?

Unless it's only the sure-fire action blockbusters they want to go for?

Best,

Rich

Re: Installation instructions for vintage "Rome: Caesar's Will" on Windows 8 [Re: RichAlexis] #1113436
06/10/17 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted By: RichAlexis
If National Geographic, the BBC, HBO and the History Channel can produce profitable dramatized documentaries, why can't IT companies invest in something like that in game format?

Those documentaries have a proven audience. They've sold well enough in the past, and nearly everyone has a TV or a computer they can watch on.

High system requirements are an impediment to sales of computer software. But even if a developer made historical edutainment software with requirements as low as Myst IV (2004), which most recent computers would meet, the audience isn't "proven" to exist.

It doesn't help that, in the days of boxed games, when Cryo/Arxel/etc were still making historical adventure games, online sales of games weren't counted. With one single exception, I had to buy all of my edutainment purchases online because local shops didn't stock them (I found "Physicus" in the kids' section of an EB). So the hundreds of dollars I spent on the Cryo/Index/Arxel games didn't count as "purchases." Well over half had to be imported from overseas because they weren't sold at any online shop in North America that I could find. The part of the country I lived in was an absolute desert when it came to regular adventure games, let alone historical adventures and edutainment.

Originally Posted By: RichAlexis
Unless it's only the sure-fire action blockbusters they want to go for?

I don't think the big game companies would be interested in investing in anything that hasn't sold well for them in the past. Very circular logic -- we'll never sell it because it's never sold for us before.

Considering that they've shown themselves to be completely ignorant about how to promote anything that isn't action-oriented, this isn't likely to change. It is beyond their comprehension that there is anyone who'd enjoy a slow-paced game or "visit" to a virtual world. That audience is completely ignored.

For example, I remember seeing an ad for Myst III where they tried to make it look like an action game -- banging, noisy "music," fast cutting that make it hard to look at, etc. If I hadn't already known what Myst III was about, and all I knew was from that ad, I wouldn't have been interested in it at all.

There is an ignored, untested audience for virtual tours, or visit modes, in software -- not necessarily the same as "games" because there are no puzzles or dexterity challenges -- just exploring a virtual environment.

Last month, YouTube uploader "LateBlt" uploaded a video describing his thoughts on adventure games, "walking simulators", and why he hadn't uploaded anything in several months:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2lT6kX7GFo
He talks about "Farming Simulator" and how he doesn't play it as intended, but just wanders around looking at things and enjoying the environment. He's done this with other games, and at the moment he prefers this over playing any sort of adventure game. He says he knows other people who use Farming Simulator (and other related Simulators) for this purpose. The lack of challenge or imposed goals and the ability to relax while looking around is a major part of the appeal.

Now if you consider which is closer to a documentary -- exploring a virtual environment with no obstacles, or playing a game that features a virtual environment but where there are some sort of obstacles (either puzzles or dexterity challenges), I think the pure exploration is absolutely closer to a documentary.

I don't know if the time to make such a thing is now. Maybe in a few years. System requirements would have to be low enough that almost any computer could run the software, yet it would have to be realistic enough that people used to the realism of filmed documentaries would accept it.

Re: Installation instructions for vintage "Rome: Caesar's Will" on Windows 8 [Re: Jenny100] #1113466
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I absolutely agree with all the points you make, Jenny100 thumbsup thumbsup


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Re: Installation instructions for vintage "Rome: Caesar's Will" on Windows 8 [Re: RichAlexis] #1113479
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Thanks, Mad.
Glad you're not mad at me.

Re: Installation instructions for vintage "Rome: Caesar's Will" on Windows 8 [Re: Jenny100] #1113487
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Hi Jenny,

Very good, well-reasoned points, Jenny! No, I'm not mad at anyone either! How could I? wink

I'm shocked to hear that, even in pre-download days, online sales didn't count! How unfair! At least in Holland and other European countries there were companies representing or distributing Cryo and the like, so that you could find Dutch or multilingual versions of these games in stores.

The Wikipedia page on adventure games suggests that at one point, there was an oversaturation of Myst-like exploration and puzzle games, which undermined the genre. The same may be true of the endless series of city-building and strategy games which centred on the Roman Empire. You know, Caesar this, Imperium that, Total War this, Grand Ages that. This may have killed historical interest.

Perhaps recent environmental exploration games like Dear Esther and The Stanley Parable can lead the way and open up historical possibilities? Only time will tell.

Best,

Rich

Re: Installation instructions for vintage "Rome: Caesar's Will" on Windows 8 [Re: Jenny100] #1113500
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Originally Posted By: Jenny100
Thanks, Mad.
Glad you're not mad at me.


Heck, Jenny100 !! I wouldn't ever get mad at you !! wave2


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Re: Installation instructions for vintage "Rome: Caesar's Will" on Windows 8 [Re: RichAlexis] #1113503
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Originally Posted By: RichAlexis
The Wikipedia page on adventure games suggests that at one point, there was an oversaturation of Myst-like exploration and puzzle games, which undermined the genre.

Wikipedia can be edited by anyone, and is not a good source of information for anything where there is disagreement.

That "undermined the genre" business is hogwash that's been repeated entirely too often by people who should know better.

The Wikipedia article also says
Quote:
Myst held the record for computer game sales for seven years—it sold over nine million copies on all platforms, a feat not surpassed until the release of The Sims in 2000.

If it sold that much, it clearly outsold any of the Sierra/LucasArts games. So are you going to blame the customers who bought Myst and not a Sierra or LucasArts game? Aren't they entitled to buy the game they want? Obviously Myst offered them something the Sierra and LucasArts did not. And considering 7th Guest was released on CD the year before Myst, and Myst outsold 7th Guest, you can't say that all Myst offered was the novelty of being on CD.

It's not like Sierra or LucasArts stopped making 3rd person games after Myst was published. Nor is it likely that any developer that produced a 1st person game would have produced a 3rd person game instead if Myst hadn't existed.

Myst was released in 1993.
Let's not forget that even more influential game that was released in 1993 -- Doom.

Originally Posted By: RichAlexis
The same may be true of the endless series of city-building and strategy games which centred on the Roman Empire. You know, Caesar this, Imperium that, Total War this, Grand Ages that. This may have killed historical interest.

Unless there was some issue with the games becoming too similar, I kind of doubt people who enjoy them would get tired of the historical aspects. But if these games have been "consolized" and designed to use gamepad instead of mouse/keyboard, not everyone will be happy with that.

Originally Posted By: Mad
Heck, Jenny100 !! I wouldn't ever get mad at you !!

Awwww! You're sweet.

Re: Installation instructions for vintage "Rome: Caesar's Will" on Windows 8 [Re: RichAlexis] #1113510
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An interesting discussion. It is very sad and true, that no more historical adventure games are being produced - while both classical point-and-click LucasArts/Sierra-like adventures and 'Myst clones' come out quite often, either from big conpanies (like Daedalic) or from indie-developers.

Is it indeed a technique lost forever, that now forgotten 'French school' of edutainment? Or maybe the sponsors who paid for making those titles - like Canal+, France Telecom or Réunion des Musées Nationaux - are no longer interested in such products now that all edutaiment could be conducted online?

The last attempts I can think of are just casual games made in 2011 - 'Aspectus – Rinascimento Chronicles' and 'Marie-Antoinette and the Followers of Loki'. Even with that 'appeal for broader audience', both those companies seem to have gone bankrupt...

Re: Installation instructions for vintage "Rome: Caesar's Will" on Windows 8 [Re: Iurii] #1113551
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Originally Posted By: Iurii
An interesting discussion. It is very sad and true, that no more historical adventure games are being produced - while both classical point-and-click LucasArts/Sierra-like adventures and 'Myst clones' come out quite often, either from big conpanies (like Daedalic) or from indie-developers.

There haven't really been many "Myst-like" games either -- some games with solitary exploration, but not all have Myst-like puzzles. You're more apt to find puzzles in casual games, but the puzzles tend to be too easy in those. The bulk of new game announcements seem to be for humorous LucasArts/Sierra type games, horror games, and dystopic games.

I made this list of games I know of with solitary exploration, though I may be missing some. They don't all feature Myst-like puzzles. For example, Eyes of Ara was mainly finding inventory.

2016 Barrow Hill: The Dark Path
2016 Eyes of Ara
2016 Obduction
2016 Quern
2015 Prominence
2015 RoonSehv
2014 Talos Principle
2012 J.U.L.I.A. (re-released 2014)
2011 ASA: A Space Adventure
2010 RHEM 4

Dates are mostly from PAGODA.
And of course the Carol Reed and Nancy Drew games, which are 1st person but not usually solitary exploration. Unfortunately we saw the last Nancy Drew in 2015 and it doesn't look like there will be any more. But ten games isn't a whole lot when you're going back 7 years.

Originally Posted By: Iurii
Or maybe the sponsors who paid for making those titles - like Canal+, France Telecom or Réunion des Musées Nationaux - are no longer interested in such products now that all edutainment could be conducted online?

I haven't seen anything like the old games online. Certainly nothing close to the edutainment games from 15 or 20 years ago. http://www.rmn.fr/ is like a virtual pamphlet rather than a virtual tour. Apparently Canal+ and France Telecom aren't what they used to be. Canal+ is now owned by Vivendi and France Telecom is now called Orange S.A. and is not a company that's going to be interested in promoting cultural history either. There's some surprisingly bad stuff about Orange S.A. on Wikipedia -- high rate of employee suicides and such.

Originally Posted By: Iurii
The last attempts I can think of are just casual games made in 2011 - 'Aspectus – Rinascimento Chronicles' and 'Marie-Antoinette and the Followers of Loki'. Even with that 'appeal for broader audience', both those companies seem to have gone bankrupt...

Aspectus wasn't a historical game. It was a fantasy in a mostly historical setting. I expect the Marie Antoinette game was the same, since I doubt real life Marie Antoinette had much to do with the Norse god Loki or any group called "Followers of Loki." One of the problems with casual games is that the developers seem to have no concept of history and their games are rife with anachronisms. They'll have games that are supposed to take place in the 1950's or 1960's, and the hidden objects you're supposed to find are antique tools from over 100 years earlier -- museum pieces in the 1950's and earlier and certainly not common household implements in the 1950's.

Re: Installation instructions for vintage "Rome: Caesar's Will" on Windows 8 [Re: Jenny100] #1113555
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Quote:
"One of the problems with casual games is that the developers seem to have no concept of history and their games are rife with anachronisms. They'll have games that are supposed to take place in the 1950's or 1960's, and the hidden objects you're supposed to find are antique tools from over 100 years earlier -- museum pieces in the 1950's and earlier and certainly not common household implements in the 1950's.

Thanks again for your research par excellence, to stay in the French vein! thumbsup

Indeed, casual HOG games appear to be infected by the random object virus ("Find the opossum and the binoculars at the greengrocer's"), regardless of historical context.

One factor must also be the financial crisis that's hit us so hard since 2008, preceded of course by the "New Economy" (Dot-com) bubble crash of 2000 that already ruined a lot of IT companies.

National and local governments are extremely reluctant now to subsidize established public institutions like libraries, archives, museums, zoos, research centres and arts councils (as a number of these were involved in creating these historical games), let alone innovative projects, while banks and other investors are also avoiding ventures that present any kind of risk. Impending bankruptcies for museums, concert halls and archives, that was something unheard of until recently.

The economy is finally picking up now, but there are still lots of uncertainties, financial, political, demographic, you name them. I think that's a worldwide phenomenon, alas.

Best,

Rich

Re: Installation instructions for vintage "Rome: Caesar's Will" on Windows 8 [Re: Jenny100] #1113606
06/11/17 11:52 PM
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Originally Posted By: Jenny100
There haven't really been many "Myst-like" games either

Well, I have not played 'Eyes of Ara', but both 'Obduction' and 'Quern' are recent Myst-like games with a lot of quite difficult puzzles smile

Originally Posted By: Jenny100

I haven't seen anything like the old games online. Certainly nothing close to the edutainment games from 15 or 20 years ago

I meant not games, but general online education. You can now read about everything in 'Wikipedia' and on other web-sites - not much need to make a separate Encyclopedia of some historical period, add a kind of supplementary adventure game to it, and publish it on CDs.

Originally Posted By: Jenny100
Aspectus wasn't a historical game. It was a fantasy in a mostly historical setting.

You are right of course - that's why I called them 'attempts', certainly not on par with the real historical games developed 15 or 20 years ago.
Still, all the titles from Nemopolis had a part of fantasy in them - we play as a little robot travelling throuh the ages of French history, but that does not hinder those ages to be portrayed quite accurately. In 'Marie Antoinette', they just re-used backgrounds from their earlier adventure games and added hidden objects to it. Strange sight indeed, as RichAlexis has already noted.

Oh, I forgot about Danish company Serious Games Interactive and their historical adventure games. Their latest one, 'Playing History: Vikings', came out in 2015. Still, they are probably too childish - with cartoony graphics instead of the realism of the older French games.

Re: Installation instructions for vintage "Rome: Caesar's Will" on Windows 8 [Re: RichAlexis] #1126752
10/01/17 06:48 AM
10/01/17 06:48 AM
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Vienna, Austria
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Fingon Offline
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Hi to all, first of all, thanks to the first post, I was able to install Rome: Caesar's Will on my Windows 10. However, I wasn't able to run it - the game freezes with "Please wait while loading..."

I have a laptop, AMD A8-6410 APU with AMD Radeon R5 Graphics, 2.00 GHz, 4 GB RAM

The game freezes as Not responding.



On a side note, thanks for the tips considering other historical adventures, I have never heard about Crusader nor about The Vikings. As far as I know, there is only one game series that is dedicated to recreating historical cities etc. - Assassin's Creed. Too bad it's difficult to play in places...

BTW on the decline of the genre after 2000 - I keep finding more and more abandoned series that could get two installments published, but not the third one - Adrian Blake trilogy (Pompei + Jerusalem), A riddle of the SPhinx (Riddle of the Sphinx + Omega Stone), Aura + Aura 2 and even the New Atlantis Trilogy (Atlantis: Evolution and Secrets of Atlantis). Maybe there are more...

Re: Installation instructions for vintage "Rome: Caesar's Will" on Windows 8 [Re: Fingon] #1126775
10/01/17 09:45 AM
10/01/17 09:45 AM
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Posts: 48,224
near Yosemite
Marian Offline
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welcome to GameBoomers, Fingon.

Hopefully one of the techies here will be able to give you some advice about the freeze problem with the game.

Re: Installation instructions for vintage "Rome: Caesar's Will" on Windows 8 [Re: Fingon] #1127141
10/04/17 01:46 PM
10/04/17 01:46 PM
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The Netherlands
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RichAlexis Offline OP
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Hi Fingon,

Thank you for your personal message!

I must say it's hard for me to speculate about an operating system I don't have (Windows 10), and can't possibly emulate.

I have a hunch it has something to do with screen resolution. As I've written, this game requires 800x600, which my Windows 8.1 automatically adjusts to when launching the game. There is a lag during the 'Please wait while loading' screen image though, and this screen initially appears as an ugly cropped image in the lower right-hand corner.

I see that Windows 10 offers the same compatibility options for applications as Windows 8.1, that is a pre-set resolution of 640x480, which is of no use here.

Even though I don't need it in this case, I regularly use the 12 Noon Display changer (https://12noon.com/?page_id=80) for adjusting the screen resolution for just one particular application, which returns to default as soon as you close the game.

You start the application from the command line, or a desktop shortcut like this:

"C:\Program Files (x86)\12noon Display Changer\dc64.exe" -width=800 -height=600 -depth=32 "C:\Program Files (x86)\Montparnasse Multimedia\Rome\rome.exe"

I don't know if this is of any help.

Another issue might be that Windows 10 handles older DirectX and Windows Media Player calls worse than 8.1? As I've said, I skip the installation of these older applications for 'Rome', but this might be the cause.

Another option would be to run all kinds of vintage games (as you're clearly interested in them) inside an emulator, like Hyper-V (if you run a Windows 10 Pro OS) or VMware Player.

Best,

Rich

P.S. On a sidenote too, but a heartfelt one, I recently read a Dutch report by the NCDD (Netherlands Coalition for Digital Preservation (final 'D' for 'duurzaamheid' = durability, sustainability)) on how urgent the need for preservation of 'old' CD-ROMs and DVD-ROMs has become, even more so now that QuickTime (including its VR 3D feature) and Adobe (Macromedia) Flash support have almost disappeared from recent OS-versions. Or given the fact that lots of institutions are discarding their optical disk drives altogether, or recent hardware and software no longer support them - taking into account that the popular acceptance of DVDs and Blu-rays happened only 15 or 10 years ago. And most of these are highly complex applications, unlike an audio or video tape.

It's a crazy situation, especially if you work in a professional environment like education, when you find that in the space of let's say three years, lots of applications won't run your content properly, and all sorts of awkward fixes are required, if they work at all.

Quote:

Quote:
CD-ROMs were popular carriers for interactive works of art from the early to late 1990s. Unlike mainstream mass-produced CD-ROMs, CD-ROM art was usually published on a very small scale, or even remained unpublished altogether. These artworks were created specifically for this medium, and should not be confused with regular files stored on a CD-ROM. This makes them unique, but also vulnerable. Now that many computers are no longer equipped with optical discs drives, operating systems have become outdated, and files are often unreadable, these works are threatened with oblivion.

And, after details have been provided to preserve and emulate the various elements on the CD-ROM:

Quote:
Realistically, we must expect emulators, virtual disk images and the host systems running the emulators to eventually go out of date themselves. Just like any other type of software or data file, they require a specific system environment, but these environments are constantly shifting. When one component changes, its dependent components may cease to function. With this in mind, in order to ensure the long-term preservation of CD-ROM art, a standard migration procedure must be applied to the entire archive, including both virtual disk images and emulators.



Re: Installation instructions for vintage "Rome: Caesar's Will" on Windows 8 [Re: RichAlexis] #1127277
10/05/17 03:07 PM
10/05/17 03:07 PM
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Fingon Offline
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Vienna, Austria
Hi Rich,
thanks for the tips. After reading the first post, second thing I did was to manually change the screen resolution for 800x600.

I have eventually managed to run the recommended program (had to run it as administrator, otherwise it just spits out an error message), but even though it did change the resolution, it didn't change the problem itself- the game just freezes on the loading screen and is not responding.

I have installed the game without any additional programs as recommended. When that didn't work (I have a long string of elderly games behind me. I know how finicky can the different versions of DirectX be and that the newest version doesn't always contain all the necessary data), I have reinstalled the game again, this time with the programs. For one of them, there was an error message.

I have tried the emulation as well - I have only Win 10 Home edition, but I use Virtualbox semi-regularly. I have tried this pest of a game on emulated Win 95, 98 and even XP Pro - the installation works without a problem. When I tried to run it, however, there is an in-game error message:

ROME: Error
Your graphic card does not meet requirements (no hardware acceleration or not enough video memory).

One thing though - I try to never install games into Program Files folder. I could do another reinstall into the suggested location, maybe that will help.

(I am usually able to run anything old enough, given enough fiddling. The only thing I wasn't able to run at all was Aura 2 - even though it worked before. There has been some (Windows 8 ) update, after which it just stopped working. I had to use my wife's notebook.)

PS, personally, once I am done with a game, I usually don't care any more, yet I think these things should be preserved for posterity (and new generations of players). On a purely software basis, we will probably have to make do with an emulation of an emulation (eg. in 2030, emulate windows 10 and in it windows xp and/or DOSBOX/ScummVM), the problem comes in the moment when one needs to get the data from a physical medium.

Recently, I have participated in recovering an obscure Czech game from 1996. Once installed, one could easilly play it in DOSBOX as it was still a DOS game. But the game data had to be installed from two 3,5' diskets and some of the sectors were already damaged beyond repair. What we have now is the only known/rediscovered unit in existence. The producer is still in game business (well, his third studio is/was - after several games fro the Czech market he has founded Illusion Softworks (of Mafia fame), that was turned into 2K Czech and eventually he left and founded a small studio for casual /HO games).

And as this is in digital form and a specialized tools are needed to access theh data, the situation could become bleak indeed.

Last edited by Fingon; 10/05/17 03:23 PM.
Re: Installation instructions for vintage "Rome: Caesar's Will" on Windows 8 [Re: Fingon] #1127288
10/05/17 05:39 PM
10/05/17 05:39 PM
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Posts: 217
The Netherlands
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RichAlexis Offline OP
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RichAlexis  Offline OP
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The Netherlands
Hi Fingon,

Really sorry to hear that, after so many attempts! Thank you for your remarks on vintage historical games by the way! Yes, I've read others on this board who recommend installing older games in My Documents folder, for instance, as the Program Files directories are too restrictive and often require special Administrator privileges for installing and saving (temporary) files, logs and the like.

I should have added that I have a Intel Core i5-4590 processor, with Intel HD Graphics 4600 card, 3.30 GHz, 8 GB RAM.

I just installed the game inside my VMware Player Windows XP Home Edition emulator, roughly the same way I did on Windows 10:
  • Set Compatibility for Autorun.exe (or directly Setup.exe) to Windows 98 / Windows ME
  • Custom Setup without DirectX 7, DXmedia 6, Media Player 6.4 (my emulation already has DirectX 9.0, Windows Media Player 9.0, and VMware Tools)
and again, the game installs without a glitch, I can set preferences, and start playing.

I do get your error message of

Quote:
ROME: Error
Your graphic card does not meet requirements (no hardware acceleration or not enough video memory).

when I reduce the hardware acceleration in Control Panel -> Display -> Settings -> Advanced to the left, so that might be part of the problem in your case.

I also installed the Rome game inside my VMware Player Windows 98 SE emulator, this time without any compatibility adjustments of course, but also custom install without the DirectX and WMP stuff (I already have the same or higher installed inside).

That's when I immediately get your "Your graphic card does not meet requirements..." error, and had to give up.

Best,

Rich
P.S. About the preservation of vintage games and graphic media. I got a little 'Aha-Erlebnis' idea when you wrote that you'd probably need an emulation of an emulation to keep things running. That's exactly what they concluded in the report I quoted from above:

Quote:
Since the emulators themselves eventually grow obsolete, they too should be archived, along with all the system files and programs needed for them to function. In the future, this will enable the possibility for newer emulators to recursively emulate older ones which cannot be used on the latest computers (for instance if their updates for newer OS are discontinued). The technique of running an emulator within another emulator is already commonly practised in the field of archiving and has been noted in several studies.

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