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#1127494 - 10/07/17 06:53 PM Things I wish would be removed from casual games
GuybrushThreepwood Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 09/06/03
Posts: 4515
Loc: Lincoln, NE
Asking me if I want to see just the specialized tutorial. There isn't anything I haven't seen before. So tutorial on or off is all that's needed.

The kindly seeming stranger who is actually the villain who my character foolishly follows into a trap. I'm tired of the character I'm playing being an idiot. Either the kindly stranger needs to be as kind as he seems or my character needs to recognize him immediately and put him in the trap. Then the real villain can be somebody else.

Any puzzle where moving one object causes others to move.

Any puzzle that expects me to know anything about music. Or math. Or getting 4 oz/liters or other measurement of liquid by pouring into one measuring cup that's too small and another that's too large. Oh how I hate those.

Hidden object puzzles where its possible to accidentally back out of the puzzle when I was actually trying to click on that object near the bottom of the screen.

Puzzles that require moving an object from the top of a serpentine thingy to the bottom and for which not moving the mouse perfectly throws you back to the beginning. One game I played had stopping points. So once you hit the circle you'd only get thrown back there. That wasn't so bad.

Same puzzle multiple times. It very annoying to have to use some device that every time you activate it you have to do a variation of the same puzzle. The last game I played that had that was extra annoying because once you activated the lightning shooting device it put itself back to the left of your inventory instead of automatically using it. Why the heck would I activate if I wasn't ready to use it?

Collectible versions where finding the collectibles is necessary to learn some otherwise hidden background information. Everything should be revealed by the core game.
_________________________
Currently Playing:
Adventure Game: Broken Age, Tesla Effect
Casual: none at this time
Darkside: The Witcher

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#1127496 - 10/07/17 07:04 PM Re: Things I wish would be removed from casual games [Re: GuybrushThreepwood]
Marian Online   content
Global Moderator
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 07/04/00
Posts: 31655
Loc: near Yosemite in California
I agree with several of your observations, in particular the same puzzle multiple times, moving one object causes other objects to move, and the measuring-liquids puzzle. If I never saw another one of these, they would not be missed.

Now I will have to think about what I would put on this list, if I were making one. wave

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#1127501 - 10/07/17 09:49 PM Re: Things I wish would be removed from casual games [Re: GuybrushThreepwood]
SharonB Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 01/23/09
Posts: 1180
Loc: Delaware, USA
Me too, Guybrush. I love my hidden object games but some of these "puzzles" are just annoying. I'm at the point now if I find a puzzle I don't like or find entertaining/challenging, I just skip it. It saves me a lot of frustration and anger. I'm there for the story and the clues. One thing you didn't mention and it doesn't happen that much anymore is when you have to click on just the right spot or it won't work. That just happened to me in my last game. I had been clicking in several areas but it wasn't working. Eventually I asked for a hint. It was the spot just to the right of center!! That's very annoying too!

Anyway, I enjoy reading your posts on what you're playing.

SharonB

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#1127551 - 10/08/17 11:46 AM Re: Things I wish would be removed from casual games [Re: GuybrushThreepwood]
oldbroad Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 04/01/06
Posts: 3118
Loc: Chicago
The thing on your list that most annoys me is getting backed out of a puzzle while trying to click on something within the puzzle.

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#1127557 - 10/08/17 12:01 PM Re: Things I wish would be removed from casual games [Re: GuybrushThreepwood]
Sparkle Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 01/29/09
Posts: 1582
Loc: Canal Fulton, OH
The puzzles I almost always skip are the ones where you have to reconstruct a picture by using revolving circles or moving both vertical amd horizontal portions of the picture. (Hope this makes sense. Kind of hard to explain.)

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#1127560 - 10/08/17 12:20 PM Re: Things I wish would be removed from casual games [Re: Sparkle]
Marian Online   content
Global Moderator
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 07/04/00
Posts: 31655
Loc: near Yosemite in California
I know what kind of puzzle you mean, Sparkle. I stink at them. wave

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#1127561 - 10/08/17 12:45 PM Re: Things I wish would be removed from casual games [Re: GuybrushThreepwood]
Jenny100 Online   content
GB Reviewer Glitches Moderator
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 10/24/00
Posts: 38331
Loc: southeast USA
Quote:
Hidden object puzzles where its possible to accidentally back out of the puzzle when I was actually trying to click on that object near the bottom of the screen.

Yes, I get that a lot. Also putting objects so close to the Hint that you accidentally click the Hint instead of the object -- so the Hint you were saving for a really hard-to-find object is exhausted and you have to wait for it to recharge.

Quote:
Puzzles that require moving an object from the top of a serpentine thingy to the bottom and for which not moving the mouse perfectly throws you back to the beginning. One game I played had stopping points. So once you hit the circle you'd only get thrown back there. That wasn't so bad.

Yes I don't like those dexterity "puzzles" that aren't really puzzles so much as a test for steady hands. Even when you can do them they are simply an exercise in tedium.

Quote:
Any puzzle where moving one object causes others to move.

Any puzzle that expects me to know anything about music. Or math. Or getting 4 oz/liters or other measurement of liquid by pouring into one measuring cup that's too small and another that's too large. Oh how I hate those.

I don't mind these, and often enjoy them. I play these games for the puzzles and to some extent the atmosphere. The stories themselves I've usually seen before, and it's the way they're told that matters. Alas, they're rarely told very well, so it's mostly the puzzles I play for, and I enjoy variety. Instead of removing certain puzzle types, I'd rather they just implement puzzle skips for those who don't like certain puzzle types.

Quote:
Same puzzle multiple times. It very annoying to have to use some device that every time you activate it you have to do a variation of the same puzzle.

Depends on how much I liked the puzzle in the first place.

Quote:
The last game I played that had that was extra annoying because once you activated the lightning shooting device it put itself back to the left of your inventory instead of automatically using it. Why the heck would I activate if I wasn't ready to use it?

That certainly sounds annoying. Having to scroll through inventory several times to find an object is always a pain. Sometimes I wish there was a button to expand the inventory into a box with all inventory showing rather than having to scroll through it multiple times.

Quote:
Collectible versions where finding the collectibles is necessary to learn some otherwise hidden background information. Everything should be revealed by the core game.

There is a lot I dislike about "Collectible" versions to the point where I rarely buy them any more. Near-constant pop-ups and slide-ins obscuring the screen, taking away control, and killing any sense of immersion that the game might have had whenever you happen to click on a "collectible" object.

Another annoyance, not limited to "Collector's versions, is constantly having pop-up "Tasks" thrown in your face for every little thing you do, telling you what to do next. I've seen options to disable "Tasks" in the Options menu, but I've yet to find a game where it actually works to suppress the pop-ups. Instead it removes the "Tasks" button from the in-game controls -- you know, the place where it could conceivably have some use -- thereby eliminating any potential usefulness while allowing the &*#^$! pop-up interruptions.

Also journals that are constantly blinking and nagging and don't stop until you open the journal and close it. Do developers really think I'm playing a game because I want to read a journal? If I wanted to "read" a story I'd be reading a book. I don't want my game to be constantly interrupted by being expected to read some little blow-by-blow description in a journal. The purpose of the journal is to look up codes you found earlier in the game, not to reiterate a story that should be told through the gameplay -- and nag at you with incessant blinking until you interrupt your game to open and close the journal.

Originally Posted By: Sparkle
The puzzles I almost always skip are the ones where you have to reconstruct a picture by using revolving circles or moving both vertical amd horizontal portions of the picture. (Hope this makes sense. Kind of hard to explain.)

I think those are a matter of luck. Some of them I can do while others are impossible. Some of them can be solved in as little as 4 moves, but if you start out wrong you end up with an unsolvable mess. I don't really have the head to work them out.

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#1127570 - 10/08/17 03:47 PM Re: Things I wish would be removed from casual games [Re: Jenny100]
Mad Offline
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 11/21/00
Posts: 27432
Loc: United Kingdom
Don't you think, though, that if all these "annoyances" were to be eliminated, lots and lots of Casuals would die a death ??

So many of them use these same things woozy
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#1127575 - 10/08/17 04:17 PM Re: Things I wish would be removed from casual games [Re: Mad]
Jenny100 Online   content
GB Reviewer Glitches Moderator
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 10/24/00
Posts: 38331
Loc: southeast USA
Originally Posted By: Mad
Don't you think, though, that if all these "annoyances" were to be eliminated, lots and lots of Casuals would die a death ??

Depending on which "annoyances" you're talking about...
If you're talking about the pop-ups and slide-ins, then
No, the games may include them, but they don't depend on them.
Can you think of a single instance where nonstop pop-ups and slide-ins improved your experience?
They aren't part of the game.
Why is there no working option to block them?
Why are they there in the first place?

Obviously not everyone likes the same type of puzzles, but the inclusion of skips fixes that.

Nothing has eliminated the %^#$! pop-ups.
I've seen no progress at all with that.

I think ignoring people who complain about them ensures that those people stop buying the games.

Quote:
So many of them use these same things

And I don't buy nearly as many casual games as I once did -- simply because nothing is done to eliminate the pop-up annoyances. I try new games once in a while, but since they continue to have these pop-up and slide-in interruptions I don't continue buying. I'm also making a list of the worst offenders, so I never make the mistake of bothering to replay them.

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#1127601 - 10/08/17 11:41 PM Re: Things I wish would be removed from casual games [Re: Jenny100]
Mad Offline
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 11/21/00
Posts: 27432
Loc: United Kingdom
"Depending on which "annoyances" you're talking about ... If you're talking about the pop-ups and slide-ins, then No"

I was actually referring more to the puzzles described in the posts of this thread.
SO MANY of the same puzzles are used in game after game.
Even if they are very slightly varied in presentation, they are basically the same puzzle yes

But the same also applies to some "effects. A premium example being "smoke".
Once smoke was used, it appeared in practically every game that followed !! eek
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Time : The Most Precious Commodity

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#1127606 - 10/09/17 01:24 AM Re: Things I wish would be removed from casual games [Re: Mad]
Reenie Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 03/01/00
Posts: 3334
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, CA
Boy, I sure resonate with everything said above, and I am someone who loves tough puzzles. They are the main reason I buy casuals (certainly, it isn't for the original plot lines ~ ha ha) But there is a critical difference between a tough puzzle and a punitive one. A tough puzzle challenges your brain deliciously; a punitive one just shoves you around in circles or withholds clarity so that you spend half your time trying to figure out WTF the object of it is.

I am getting older and my reflexes aren't what they were, so I dread encountering a timed sequence or a dexterity puzzle that kicks you ALL the way back to the beginning again if you make a mistake. This means I can do without speed-driving or -boating through a timed obstacle course. If I want that in a game, I'll buy Grand Theft Auto.

Puzzles are why I buy these casual games in the first place! After all, as someone already noted, the games use the same basic plot and only change the location/theme or your main character and whoever was kidnapped/hypnotized/drugged/possessed and that you now have to save from the witch/ghost/pirate/queen/demon/madman. What saves these games from being totally and predictably boring is good puzzles!

I agree there should be an Option to "Turn Off Pop-ups." Why on Earth would this not be controlled by the player? What possible gain is there to the designer that we sit through them? We have complained loud and long and still there they are in most games. It seems like such an easy fix.

There are a few tropes that are getting tiresome, like waking up from whatever ambushed you and you have go through the slow-eye-blink thing. We've done that enough, designers. Move on. We've translated enough runes, sewn up enough torn hot air balloons, made enough fishhooks from a bent pin, fixed enough broken zippers with a paper clip, and shoved the magazine under the door so you can push the key through to fall on it enough times (like anyone ever leaves the key in the knob!) ~ and so many other silly things that stopped being clever after the first 20 times.

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#1127731 - 10/09/17 11:07 PM Re: Things I wish would be removed from casual games [Re: Reenie]
SharonB Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 01/23/09
Posts: 1180
Loc: Delaware, USA
Most casual games don't have a good story, that's true but I like to become temporarily immersed in that world and I do enjoy the story - usually. Currently, I'm replaying Charles Dexter Ward and that is a good story and the game is very immersive. I find myself getting a little jumpy from listening to the sound effects - creaking floor boards, etc. This story makes you feel very alone and isolated. It's fortunate that I have such a poor memory because it's almost like playing it for the first time. I last played it 2 years ago.

As for the pop-ups... Like most of you I thoroughly dislike them. When they first started doing them it made the game unplayable for me. Since then I have adjusted. Either I buy the standard version or just ignore them. I've gotten really good at ignoring them. But yes I do believe they should be an option and not embedded.

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#1128433 - 10/16/17 11:32 AM Re: Things I wish would be removed from casual games [Re: GuybrushThreepwood]
8dognight Online   content
Settled Boomer

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 478
Loc: deep south
Koko, Lord High Executioner in Gilbert & Sullivan's Mikado, has a few remarks for casual game developers:

As someday it may happen that a game not run aground,
I’ve got a little list for the non-apologist
Of casual offenses worthy of impound
And needing to be hissed before they are dismissed.
Erase garages jammed by boring hacks
With generators, jerry cans, and half assembled auto-jacks,
All stuffed into a previously locked Chevy trunk
With poorly rendered other junk.
Eradicate the story stalling broken zip
Requiring a paperclip
But rejecting any player flyers
To use awl, pin, or pliers,
And thus engaging my complicity
In dreary, yawn-inducing functional fixity.

On this list goes a fourth wall breaking banner
Celebrating my success in an unwanted manner
For annihilating purple glyphs that linger
Until I match them with stigmata on my finger.
In similar vein are fights with symbols throbbing
Until vanquished by glowing rune lobbing.
That such duels are allowed is a travesty
That make me wish I never vowed to save his majesty
Or rescue any kidnapped friend or relative
Whose carelessness I can’t forgive
In causing me to spend money
For a formulaic narrative neither drama packed nor funny.

What happened to Steven Zhao who cleverly enlightened us
And Goblinz who could frighten us?
Their like will never make my list
For they understand the sit at home protagonist.

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#1128434 - 10/16/17 11:35 AM Re: Things I wish would be removed from casual games [Re: 8dognight]
Marian Online   content
Global Moderator
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 07/04/00
Posts: 31655
Loc: near Yosemite in California
Brilliant, 8dognight! lol

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#1128439 - 10/16/17 12:34 PM Re: Things I wish would be removed from casual games [Re: 8dognight]
Reenie Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 03/01/00
Posts: 3334
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, CA
Hilarious, on target and perfect! happydance

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#1128464 - 10/16/17 04:41 PM Re: Things I wish would be removed from casual games [Re: Reenie]
Mad Offline
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 11/21/00
Posts: 27432
Loc: United Kingdom
Gilbert & Sullivan would be immensely amused !! lol
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Time : The Most Precious Commodity

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#1128659 - 10/18/17 08:26 AM Re: Things I wish would be removed from casual games [Re: GuybrushThreepwood]
8dognight Online   content
Settled Boomer

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 478
Loc: deep south
Thanks, Marian, Reenie, and Mad.

I wrote the parody in two hours on the morning I posted and slapped it up on the thread because I knew if I didn't right away I wouldn't at all. Unfortunately that meant I didn't whip up a verse on Reenie's puzzle discussion which as the meatiest critique and one whose perspective I wholeheartedly share was going to take longer. If my brain starts spouting patter songs again I'll add a verse.

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