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Re: General Question about Game "Themes" [Re: Jenny100] #1131403
11/10/17 07:35 PM
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There is no Witches' Legacy game called Into Beyond - maybe this is referencing a different series, Reenie?

I also played The City That Wasn't There and had no bugs/glitches at all.

Re: General Question about Game "Themes" [Re: Marian] #1131430
11/11/17 12:06 AM
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Oops! Yes, Into Beyond was a Whispered Secrets game, on the line just above all the Witches' games in my database. blush

I suspect sometimes when a game is "buggy" it is because of a glitch during downloading, and I could try deleting and re-downloading it, but I have seldom done that unless I found the game exceptional to begin with.

Re: General Question about Game "Themes" [Re: Reenie] #1131467
11/11/17 10:36 AM
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I think using the Witches Legacy as an example is a little unfair because a couple of them are way above average. Reenie, you picked Covered By Night for replay. I abandoned it part way through because of the of the surreal settings, exactly what I think Jenny100 was referring to by "nonsense environment." The game fits squarely into the "almost exclusively magical universe" whose plans for casual game world domination Reenie wants to challenge. I emphatically do not mean that Reenie's proposal for more variety is inconsistent. If you can stomach the nonsense Daliesque world, then "Covered By Night" probably is a good one. I like the older ones myself.

What I am gathering from the whole discussion is a plea for better puzzles and more realistic characters and stories that do not fall into the trap of an endless stream of ho-hum or ugly settings. Fright was a good game in spite of the setting. Those depressing environments were rendered with great skill, and the actors were good. I like games with live, human actors. Abandoning their use was a grave mistake, much the way that eliminating a reasonable amount of world detail via journals and letters was a mistake.

Re: General Question about Game "Themes" [Re: 8dognight] #1131508
11/11/17 08:58 PM
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I definitely prefer real people in real world situations, but yes, we humans can be inconsistent. Given my preference for the real world, I still will "like" a fantasy game if it is challenging because, for me, the puzzle part is the reason I play. (I had, as the intro to my notes on that particular game, "Yeah, it is Witches again. Still. ... " and then my rating comments commenced.) Sometimes, the pickings are slim, and you take what you can get when looking for a new game. wink

I am playing a Dead Reckoning game now, one I bought because it was set in a contemporary university (my character has a cell phone instead of a game-related PDA), and I have been invited to the campus as a former alumnus, to receive an award for Literature. However, the first "normal world" thing that happened at the very start was that, when I arrived, I had to help rebuild a hang glider and then sail it down from the mountainside to the campus. SO "real world." ha ha ha So you never know . . . I wonder if I will end up Liking this game?

Re: General Question about Game "Themes" [Re: Reenie] #1131518
11/11/17 11:47 PM
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I just finished a replay of the first two "Witches Legacy" games, and that series has certainly changed -- almost unrecognizable between the first two ("Charleston Curse" and "Witch Queen") and the later two games in the series that I've played ("Awakening Darkness" and "City That Wasn't There"). You wouldn't think they were the same series at all.

I actually started remembering some of the game locations in "Charleston Curse" once I started playing -- like going out the window near the end of the short hall, into the treehouse, and down the hatch in the floor. I didn't remember the environments in "Witch Queen," but "Witch Queen" had quite a lot of enjoyable puzzles -- not terribly difficult, but not drop dead easy like in "Awakening Darkness" and "City That Wasn't There."

Re: General Question about Game "Themes" [Re: Jenny100] #1131525
11/12/17 02:20 AM
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Jenny, thanks for the heads up about Awakened Darkness. Yikes. I haven't tried it, but now I will pass.

I did like Fright. Good puzzles and a decent length game, easy on the HO scenes.

There was a series a while ago, Otherworld, that had several "Chapters. One game ws on Spring, one on Summer and one on Autumn. Summer was too easy, but the other two were pretty decent. Anyway, the format suggested a fourth game would come, for Winter. Have you heard of this and do you know what is planned?

Re: General Question about Game "Themes" [Re: Reenie] #1131536
11/12/17 09:18 AM
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I've played several games that had the "Hard" or "Easy" option for puzzles.

Last few "Surface" series games I've played all had the same opening scene with a fire hydrant exploding. I don't know if Elephant Games has something against fire hydrants or if they've just gotten lazy and recycling opening videos.

In most mythologies the Fates are female. "Strings of Fate" for some reason decided to make them male. And despite the title, they're playing dice not the traditional weaving threads of a person's life, which makes the fates random.

There was one series I played in which I liked the earlier games better because they all had a different special feature. The latest ones all have the same glasses that let you see a small portion of the past. Which irrationally are usually hidden somewhere in the place your investigating as if the protagonist stole them then put them for your to find.


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Adventure Game: Broken Age
Darkside: Star Wars: The Old Republic
Re: General Question about Game "Themes" [Re: Reenie] #1131543
11/12/17 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted By: Reenie
There was a series a while ago, Otherworld, that had several "Chapters. One game ws on Spring, one on Summer and one on Autumn. Summer was too easy, but the other two were pretty decent. Anyway, the format suggested a fourth game would come, for Winter. Have you heard of this and do you know what is planned?


According to Wikipedia, there was a fourth game planned called The Eternal Winter, but in 2015 it was announced that it would not be released. No idea why.

Re: General Question about Game "Themes" [Re: Reenie] #1131570
11/12/17 04:07 PM
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I am replaying Charleston Curse and have paused to write this because I noticed an important part of why I like it: the music. This is unusual for me with casual games. I ordinarily have to turn the music so low that I can barely hear it in order to stand it at all.

The score in Charleston Curse is pleasantly reminiscent of traditional folk tunes like Shenandoah and of Russian born Dimitri Tiomkin's work for I don't know how many Hollywood movies; some were High Noon (Don't Forsake Me), Alamo (Green Leaves of Summer), and The High and the Mighty (although that is whistled in the film).

Last edited by 8dognight; 11/12/17 04:10 PM.
Re: General Question about Game "Themes" [Re: 8dognight] #1131571
11/12/17 04:13 PM
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I really liked the music in Charleston Curse as well. There are a handful of games I bought on Big Fish where my purchase decision had a lot to do with the fact that I loved the music. It can really make a substantial difference in terms of how I feel about a game.

Re: General Question about Game "Themes" [Re: Marian] #1131574
11/12/17 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted By: Marian
I really liked the music in Charleston Curse as well. There are a handful of games I bought on Big Fish where my purchase decision had a lot to do with the fact that I loved the music. It can really make a substantial difference in terms of how I feel about a game.


Can you remember any of them?

Re: General Question about Game "Themes" [Re: 8dognight] #1131576
11/12/17 05:15 PM
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Oh, yes. I do remember most if not all of them, because they were, well, memorable.

New York Mysteries: Secrets of the Mafia CE (stirring music at the main menu)
Princess Isabella: Return of the Curse CE (Disney-esque, but very fitting for the game)
Haunted Hotel: Charles Dexter Ward CE (very moody, atmospheric, understated)
Timeless: The Forgotten Town CE (in some parts, the music would not have been out of place in an epic movie)
Youda Legend: The Curse of the Amsterdam Diamond (a great soundtrack for a much older game)
Legacy Tales: Mercy of the Gallows SE (evocative, conveys the mood very well)

and the more recent Enchanted Kingdom: A Dark Seed. I really liked the music you hear at the main menu - I haven't played any more than that of the game as yet, but I remember thinking that if Domini Games is starting to realize the importance of music in a game, that this was a very good start.

If I think of any more, I will add them to the list.

Re: General Question about Game "Themes" [Re: 8dognight] #1131593
11/12/17 09:21 PM
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Me, too, 8dog. The first thing I do is turn down the music, but then, it rarely is "music," is it? Most of the time, it is simply noise, and on such a short repeating loop that it is worse than being in an elevator or working in a venue with taped mood music. I worked at Disneyland one summer and their repeating theme music tapes drove us all crazy.

In the Cadenza games, the music was at least thematic. That is the only game to sprung to mind for me.

Re: General Question about Game "Themes" [Re: Reenie] #1131645
11/13/17 08:20 AM
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Legacy Tales: Mercy of the Gallows is a favorite of mine. In fact, I have been trying to think of the name for a few weeks so that I can replay because I liked the game play, the environments, and the inclusion of background on story world details. For example, in the opening minutes after clicking on a skillfully drawn skeleton in an iron cage hanging from a branch, we get a mix of historical and intriguing but not overwhelming specifics of the back story: such cages were used to suspend and slowly kill pirates in public as a warning to living buccaneers yet our ghostly friend Elisabeth would secretly give them water.

I'm also a big fan of Timeless: Forgotten Town, Haunted Hotel: Charles Dexter Ward, and New York Mysteries: Secrets of the Mafia.

I don't remember the others on your list and am going to check my voluminous purchase history, then try both any I may own already and those I don't.

Mikael Nyqvist said in an interview something on the order of if he had to identify the most important element in a game (I'm pretty sure he said game) he would choose music. I couldn't find the interview I originally read that in but here is a quote from another one:

"You have said publicly that music is an important element of your design process, so much so that you create the music before the graphics and even the story. Why do you take this approach?

"I got into the habit of using music as the basis when I was making films, so the film could be edited to fit the rhythm of the music. This is not so important when it comes to games, since the player decides the rhythm of the game while moving from frame to frame. But it's still a nice way to work."

I am not at all musical, so music in games is likely to have a huge and hitherto unexamined, unexamined because unconscious, impact on my response to a game.

Reenie said, "The first thing I do is turn down the music, but then, it rarely is "music," is it? Most of the time, it is simply noise, and on such a short repeating loop that it is worse than being in an elevator or working in a venue with taped mood music." So true and especially so when intended to add drama or urgency. The only urgency I feel under those circumstances is the pressing need to head for the main menu and close the game.

(ETA: I looked up Enchanted Kingdom: A Dark Seed on BFG and one reviewer said, "There is nothing I dislike. I even left the music on which is unusual for me.")




Last edited by 8dognight; 11/13/17 10:48 AM.
Re: General Question about Game "Themes" [Re: 8dognight] #1131712
11/13/17 02:13 PM
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Legacy Tales is one I don't have on my list, so I definitely will check it out. Thanks for that! I do have Legacy: Forgotten Island and Legacy: Witch Island. (I can no longer find the second one on BF, so it is possible I got that title wrong in some way.) The former got my second highest rating, and for the latter, I wrote, "No voices, TOO easy, silly music, popups, you name it." This, and a few other such experiences, is one reason why I now prefer to play the Demo first, before buying a game, even if I liked a previous game in that series.

I love the whole New York Mysteries series! Like the Lost Lands series, every one of the NYM series got me raving about it. They issued a new story on a roughly annual basis, so I was watching for the 2017 game but no such luck yet.

If the game music is well done, I agree that it adds a LOT to the atmosphere of a game, same as with a film. With some films we love, we remember the music and sound track almost as much as the story. Theme songs, even from cliché movies, can stay in your mind and heart for years. Sometimes, we have bought the CD of a film's music. I can't remember the last time a game's music came close to having this effect on me, though. Most of the time, game music will pertain in some way to the overall mise en scene of the game but still does not respond to the action (or vice versa) and is more akin to the Muzak sort of background that I've grown to dread in public places.

As for my wish that more games were based in non-magical worlds, I just finished Dead Reckoning: Lethal Knowledge, one "set in a prominent University," involving faculty intrigue, and it was pretty flat. After playing Dead Reckoning: Sleight of Murder recently and noting, "Unusual plot, clever, not too much HO. Puzzles good," I was hoping Lethal would be good as well, and bought it without playing the Demo first. Ha! It had very few real puzzles at all, just Find-and-Insert-Inventory kinds of things. Of the actual puzzles, none was something a child couldn't finish in moments. I actually was waiting for the game to end.

Edit: Finished Dead Reckoning: Lethal Knowledge. Would not recommend it. Ended up being boring, no challenging puzzles at all, ridiculously easy, added nothing new to the genre, more like a game for children or people new to HO games.

Last edited by Reenie; 11/14/17 11:43 PM. Reason: Added comment
Re: General Question about Game "Themes" [Re: Reenie] #1132111
11/16/17 11:30 AM
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Resist Game Themes World Domination Plan:

I hope it’s clear from the title above that I’m a “Day of the Tentacle” enthusiast.

Revisiting “Day of the Tentacle” got me thinking about changing characters in games, a feature I have enjoyed in several other games as well. I look forward to character hopping. Then the idea of too much of a good thing seeped into my consciousness. Suppose that technique had taken root and pushed out most other developments or puzzles or quest structures (I’m not sure of the right term here) in adventure games or in casual games. While games with character switches and puzzles based on passing inventory and information back and forth are entertaining, I cannot imagine being pleased with a steady diet of games so structured. Ugh.

After reflecting on that possibility, I wanted to recap that what Reenie was getting at with her original post was not the elimination of supernatural themes or even of surreal environments although I don’t like the latter personally.

Reenie, who I am sure will correct me if I have misunderstood, and everyone else suggest more realistic settings, characters, and stories (and some of these stories can include supernatural elements without being overpowered by them) as well as more slices in the plot pizza, and better or at least less annoying music. Every single post in this thread has elements I agree with.

Based on those elements, I intend to make a sporadic hobby of writing polite and articulate requests to still extant developers of games that meet my standards. Second, I plan to review more games on BFG that I think are gems and worthy of replaying. I am going to be concentrating on older games like “The Void” (which I think is a Mystery Trackers), “Grim Tales: The Legacy,” and “Christmas Stories: The Nutcracker.” While Nutcracker is still popular, I have yet to see a seasonal offering of equal quality.

EDITED TO ADD: I should have said: more realistic but not mundane settings, characters, and stories. etc.

Last edited by 8dognight; 11/17/17 10:50 AM.
Re: General Question about Game "Themes" [Re: 8dognight] #1132121
11/16/17 02:03 PM
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I think the only way any "trend" gets established or done away with is by sale results.

And that requires large numbers of people all to be of the same mind rolleyes


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Re: General Question about Game "Themes" [Re: 8dognight] #1132127
11/16/17 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted By: 8dognight
Resist Game Themes World Domination Plan:

Reenie, who I am sure will correct me if I have misunderstood, and everyone else suggest more realistic settings, characters, and stories (and some of these stories can include supernatural elements without being overpowered by them) as well as more slices in the plot pizza, and better or at least less annoying music. Every single post in this thread has elements I agree with.


Absolutely! I enjoy all manner of themes and environments, just not a steady and unvarying diet of the same ones, and the repeating clichés therein. happydance

Originally Posted By: 8dognight
Resist Game Themes World Domination Plan: Based on those elements, I intend to make a sporadic hobby of writing polite and articulate requests to still extant developers of games that meet my standards. Second, I plan to review more games on BFG that I think are gems and worthy of replaying.


While it can't hurt to offer constructive feedback to game developers, I am afraid I have to agree with Mad and others who feel it may fall upon deaf ears. As the old expression goes, "Money Talks." Computer games are a business, like selling cars and Cable TV subscriptions. It is unlikely game developers care very much whether or not we actually like the games they offer, but simply look at the sales numbers and make more of the games that sell.

In that vein, I love your idea to present more feedback here on 'Boomers, with regard to what you feel makes a good game, and specifically "Reviews" on games played. 'Boomers is not the only venue on the web where gamers gather to talk about their game experiences, but it does have some breadth of influence. If we go beyond just giving notice of every new game issued, and supplement that with feedback from those who play them, we might have an influence on which games get purchased ~ and this could influence what direction developers take.

When Marian posts each new game offering, she always asks us "...(if you play it) come back and tell us what you think." I post my own opinion on games I play, whether it is a "Buy this one because . . . " or a "Ugh! Waste of your time and money because . . ." review, it is in that spirit. While it would be great if developers listened to us, my main concern is to help fellow players sort out the wheat from the chaff and have more fun playing the games.

Re: General Question about Game "Themes" [Re: Reenie] #1132149
11/16/17 07:14 PM
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Sadly, not all of us have time to write in with our likes and dislikes. And I'm certainly one. I only manage it now and then .... In fact "very" now and then blush

But also, as with most things, what suits one person won't suit another. So until you actually play a game yourself you can't really know whether it's one for you or not think

Unless, of course, you know for sure that the reviewer likes ALL the same things you like laugh


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Re: General Question about Game "Themes" [Re: Reenie] #1132421
11/19/17 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted By: Reenie
I do have Legacy: Forgotten Island and Legacy: Witch Island. (I can no longer find the second one on BF, so it is possible I got that title wrong in some way.) The former got my second highest rating, and for the latter, I wrote, "No voices, TOO easy, silly music, popups, you name it."

I have a "Secret Mission: The Forgotten Island" that I bought in 2011.

I can't find anything about a "Legacy: Forgotten Island" game, so maybe you're thinking of the Secret Mission game.

"Secret Mission: The Forgotten Island" was one of the few casual adventure games made by Frogwares. Too bad Frogwares didn't make more casual games because they were good at it. Their "Sherlock Holmes and the Hound of the Baskervilles" and "Dracula: Love Kills" games were both well above average.

Big Fish has Legacy: Witch Island here
https://www.bigfishgames.com/games/8185/legacy-witch-island/
but considering what you said about it,
Originally Posted By: Reenie
"No voices, TOO easy, silly music, popups, you name it."

it doesn't sound worth trying the demo.
The popups alone would disqualify it.

Originally Posted By: Reenie
This, and a few other such experiences, is one reason why I now prefer to play the Demo first, before buying a game, even if I liked a previous game in that series.

I always try demos before buying. I've had some games that didn't even start -- at least not in XP, they worked in Vista on the same laptop. A game has to be really really good for me to buy it if I have to boot to my laptop's Vista partition in order to play it.

Originally Posted By: Mad
But also, as with most things, what suits one person won't suit another. So until you actually play a game yourself you can't really know whether it's one for you or not.

You can narrow down possibilities though. It usually takes less time to search for keywords in a review page than it does to install a demo.

Originally Posted By: 8dognight
Revisiting “Day of the Tentacle” got me thinking about changing characters in games, a feature I have enjoyed in several other games as well.

Although the different characters worked well in "Day of the Tentacle" I've played more games where it was just a gimmick and detracted from the game than games where it worked.

Another "gimmick" that I'm heartily sick of is having some magical gizmo that you have to stop search the screen with when it flashes.

Originally Posted By: 8dognight
While games with character switches and puzzles based on passing inventory and information back and forth are entertaining, I cannot imagine being pleased with a steady diet of games so structured.

Absolutely. It's not a "feature" that works with all games.

Originally Posted By: Reenie
Absolutely! I enjoy all manner of themes and environments, just not a steady and unvarying diet of the same ones, and the repeating clichés therein.

Yet that's exactly what automated ratings systems select for -- enumerate a list of features that worked in certain popular games, and combine them all into a mishmash. And you end up with a "Lincoln’s Mother’s Doctor’s Dog" mishmash that is far less than the sum of its parts... Then the developers/publishers just can't understand why the game isn't successful because they "did the research."

Re: General Question about Game "Themes" [Re: Jenny100] #1132422
11/19/17 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted By: Jenny100

Originally Posted By: Reenie
I do have Legacy: Forgotten Island and Legacy: Witch Island. (I can no longer find the second one on BF, so it is possible I got that title wrong in some way.) The former got my second highest rating, and for the latter, I wrote, "No voices, TOO easy, silly music, popups, you name it."


I can't find anything about a "Legacy: Forgotten Island" game, so maybe you're thinking of the Secret Mission game.


It could be The Legacy: Forgotten Gates, which is a 5-BN game. Their games are virtually always a cut above the usual.

Oh, and you can find Legacy: Witch Island here.



Re: General Question about Game "Themes" [Re: Reenie] #1132889
11/23/17 12:23 PM
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Music Again

I looked at the credits for "Witches Legacy: Charleston Curse" and found one name for both sound and music. That name is Alexey Dikansky, and I add this note to the thread to give him a shout out for music I like to hear.

Last edited by 8dognight; 11/23/17 12:24 PM.
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