For those of you who have played Schizm...
#117678
10/28/03 01:37 PM
10/28/03 01:37 PM
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Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 3,669 New York
Mary
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OP
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I started playing Schizm a little while ago. I was doing okay for a while, and then I hit the "fish balloon" puzzle and spent hours and hours working on that gas collector, then just using a walkthrough to get past it. But now I'm in the Bosh Tunnels, and I've got "spirits" mumbling words at me that I'm supposed to understand, and let's not even talk about the "meter" puzzle that I'm supposed to figure out mathematically. (I was a Math major in college, but that was a looong time ago.) Once again, I'll be reading the walkthrough and doing the game step by step. Okay, now comes my question: does this game ever become "fun"? I'm not opposed to a difficult puzzle now and again, and I will admit the game is beautiful, but I'm not enjoying myself! I know a lot of you picked this game as one of your favorites, but I'm having one heck of a time with it, at least so far.
The answer is....chocolate! Who cares what the question is.....
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Re: For those of you who have played Schizm...
#117680
10/28/03 03:11 PM
10/28/03 03:11 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 52,982 Upstate NY
Pandora
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I'm with you, Mary. Schizm was a gorgeous game and I wanted to like it, but I felt the game didn't give me a chance. I had no problem with the gas puzzle because I've posted similar ones in the puzzle forum, but that mumbling priest made his puzzle impossible and....no fun. Just frustrating. As I recall, I solved the math one with ratios - no trig was necessary. I could be wrong about that. But that puzzle was also....no fun. I regretfully quit playing mid-game.
Last edited by looney4labs; 06/25/07 06:07 PM. Reason: remove broken link
The moon is actually more useful than the sun since the moon gives us light at night when it's dark. The sun only gives us light during the day when it's already bright out.
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Re: For those of you who have played Schizm...
#117681
10/28/03 03:16 PM
10/28/03 03:16 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 7,858 North Florida
BillyBob
BAAG Specialist
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BAAG Specialist
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North Florida
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Frankly, I didn't care much for it, either. Although I am supposedly mathmatically inclined (YES, inclined, not declined) I don't seem to care much for these kinds of puzzles nor do I want to learn another nonexistent language in order to play. This makes it difficult to explain what I DO like about a game. I've done a lot without WTs and some with WTs and some just a hint occasionally from a WT. Although my thinking is pretty much "linear" I've managed to get through some puzzles that were not so logical (to my way of thinking) and it has, I guess, been largely a matter of luck. For instance, the Clock Tower Puzzle in MYST. I figured out every conceivable move involved in clicking those two levers and it turned out you held one down for a turn or two and it operated differently. Still, it was my first game and I liked it a lot. Wonder why?
I didn't do it......and if I did I'm not guilty!
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Re: For those of you who have played Schizm...
#117684
10/28/03 05:34 PM
10/28/03 05:34 PM
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Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 3,669 New York
Mary
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Becky, I'm playing the CD version. I'm REALLY disappointed, and I hate to give up on any game (unless they've got glitches or bugs), but I also don't like "playing" a game with walkthrough in hand. I'm glad to see I'm not the only one having trouble, though. I may get myself through this section and then see if I can get ANYTHING accomplished on my own!
The answer is....chocolate! Who cares what the question is.....
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Re: For those of you who have played Schizm...
#117685
10/28/03 05:46 PM
10/28/03 05:46 PM
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 1,075 the netherlands
josefien
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the netherlands
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Mary, I did play the dvd version, but I gave up as well. Concerning math, I never understood it and that will be the reason I didn't finish the game. I quit in the Bosh tunnels. Finishing a game by just using a walkthrough is no fun anymore.
josefien
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Re: For those of you who have played Schizm...
#117687
10/28/03 06:00 PM
10/28/03 06:00 PM
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Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 26,918 Stony Brook, New York, USA
Becky
The Medieval Lady
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The Medieval Lady
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Stony Brook, New York, USA
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It's too bad they had to edit out so much of the plot in the CD version. If you're struggling with the puzzles it helps if you can mull over the central mystery as you struggle.
Personally, I think I would have left in the video messages from the previous team, and maybe taken out, hmmm, let's see...the puzzle where you have to decode the monk's language.
Yeah, that'd be a good exchange!
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Re: For those of you who have played Schizm...
#117688
10/28/03 06:14 PM
10/28/03 06:14 PM
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 129 NSW, Australia
mystmum
Settled Boomer
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Settled Boomer
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NSW, Australia
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I have the CD version, and it's buggy as well. I'm afraid it too is gathering dust on the shelf, unfinished. I'm seriously disappointed in it. I was really looking forward to it, but I just can't be bothered trying to sort out the bugs in it, because the puzzles I have managed to solve, I have no idea how I did it - it was total guesswork, and that's no fun.
Don't follow me, I'm lost too!
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Re: For those of you who have played Schizm...
#117689
10/29/03 12:05 AM
10/29/03 12:05 AM
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 3,424 WA. USA
lasanidine
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I loved Schizm. Pandora is right there was no need for trig, the ratios did it.
The priest's mumbling on the garden could be ignored.
I thought that both the air pump and the fish balloon puzzles were elegant.
With the fish puzzle you rally have to pay attention to what you see when you instert the disk to get the nav. codes.
I found the bridge connector puzzle the most troublesome because you have to win twice in a row.
The game was beautifully made and programed with great care. I played the DVD variation and found no glithches of bugs.
"I am not young enough to know everything."
Oscar Wilde
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Re: For those of you who have played Schizm...
#117690
10/29/03 12:35 AM
10/29/03 12:35 AM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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My USA epal quit Schizm for the same reasons ..... I haven't begun it yet! I think it is a game one has to get annoyed with, like Jewels of the Oracle? No story, just puzzles? LOL
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Re: For those of you who have played Schizm...
#117692
10/29/03 12:49 PM
10/29/03 12:49 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,506 hunched over my computer
wysewomon
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hunched over my computer
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I was also really disappointed in Schizm, tho' I did get through it. It seemed to me that a lot of the puzzles had too many arbitrary variables and not so much internal logic that you could actually figure out. In fact, I thought the internal logic of the Place was non-existent. And the sound puzzle was one of the worst I've ever come across. I also hated the way the two-character thing was handled, and I thought it was totally lame the way they cut so much out of the CD version. The guy "ghost" was really hunky, tho' ww
"So then he says it's enough to take aim! What's that supposed to mean?!?"
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Re: For those of you who have played Schizm...
#117693
10/29/03 01:14 PM
10/29/03 01:14 PM
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 2,500 Central Pennsylvania
esube
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I have Schizm loaded up at the moment, but I have to admit it ain't going very fast. I have made it to the priest speaking gibberish in the garden and found the prayer-wheel like gizmos, all without a walkthrough so far. But (playing the CD version, mind you) I don't feel much like going on. A game with lots of hard puzzles is fine, but if you can't skip around from puzzle to puzzle (as in a pure puzzle game like Jewels of the Oracle or Pandora's Box) or if there's no story to pique your curiosity, then there's not a lot that's going to bring you back over and over again to a game. That being said, I like Schizm. Great graphics and fantastic transitions and movements. So maybe I should go back and listen some more.
"I could help you if I had my salmon"
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Re: For those of you who have played Schizm...
#117695
10/29/03 10:30 PM
10/29/03 10:30 PM
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Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 26,918 Stony Brook, New York, USA
Becky
The Medieval Lady
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The Medieval Lady
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From what I understand, Schizm's developers originally planned to bring the game out ONLY on DVD. Although it's possible now that this idea would fly, at the time games on DVD weren't selling well, so their publisher insisted on a CD version.
I've seen an interview with the writer who wrote the Schizm story, and he was extremely disappointed to find that the CD version basically removed large parts of the plotline.
I would imagine that in cutting the game down to fit it on CDs, one factor in deciding what to eliminate was the technical ease of removing things. The parts where actors appear and tell the story was probably easier to remove than the puzzles were.
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Re: For those of you who have played Schizm...
#117699
10/30/03 09:27 AM
10/30/03 09:27 AM
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Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 26,918 Stony Brook, New York, USA
Becky
The Medieval Lady
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The Medieval Lady
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Stony Brook, New York, USA
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Johnboy -- yes, ambiguity is good! Mary. Indeed, the messages explaining what's going on were mostly deleted. There are also other things that were deleted, including at least one part of a puzzle near the end. Marita has written a walkthrough for the CD version, and it will save you some heartache if you use that instead of the DVD walkthrough.
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Re: For those of you who have played Schizm...
#117700
10/31/03 04:22 AM
10/31/03 04:22 AM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 559 Antelope Valley, So CA, USA
grandpa68
Settled Boomer
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Settled Boomer
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Posts: 559
Antelope Valley, So CA, USA
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I am about to quit this game. I am at the 1st railway track puzzle and it has me baffled. I have looked at the WT several times and it doesn't help.
Keep smiling and the world will smile with you. -------------------
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Re: For those of you who have played Schizm...
#117701
10/31/03 01:52 PM
10/31/03 01:52 PM
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,216 Virginia's wetland dimension
Salar of Myst
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Virginia's wetland dimension
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Shorah! I gotta join in on this one, short time or no short time I finally joined JA forum this month and mentioned that ole monk in a thread about the worst adventure puzzles ever (& the double bridge win thing & 2nd coordinate puzzle). I also mentioned that some of these most frustrating puzzles were from games I loved (including Schizm). Some folks agreed with me & some didnt. One of the developers, Maciek, turned up and disgreed vehemently with all I had to say. (using Sam's picture. Maybe he *is* Sam?). He said ... oh never mind I will just copy his comments so y'all can see what the Schizm team was thinking when they made them *********************************************** ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Quoting me: Schizm: 1) the infamous bridges (c'mon, why cant we save in between?) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Think, think! The save would make this puzzle no-brainer. Actually most players tried to pass it without thinking about the strategy. There is a strategy which makes winning almost sure. I am lousy adventure gamer but knowing that strategy I didn't have any problems with passing this puzzle. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Quoting me again: 2) Monk/tile/sounds ...especially the sounds 3) 2nd coordinates set, Im not great adding nums in degrees, especially when the place we got our nums from in the first place was nonsensically skipping one (Amazing that this fact didnt slow me up sooner!) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Frankly speaking, what's the point of puzzle where you have to match/add/combine easily recognizable symbols or easy to understand sounds. Where's the challenge? Also, some symbols/sounds easy to understand for some (e.g. Americans) are very hard for others (other nations). ************************************************
A Later poster challenged his comments about the priest puzzle. I actually found this reply amusing *chuckles* read on... ********************************************* ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Quote: The monk chants a string of nonsense words. It is very hard to know where one nonsense word ends and the next one begins. Like listening to a foreign language that you don't speak, it's one long stream of sounds. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ That words are nonsense for you, not for Argilans... Anyway, those words were just sounds, their meaning isn't important for the puzzle. And as I said, something meaningful for you isn't meaningful for large portion of gamers. The puzzle required matching some sounds with shapes. In order to make it simpler for those who don't have musical ear, we chose nonsense words instead of sounds with varied pitch (valve puzzle in Reah comes to mind, that one was difficult) or melodies. The words monks shouts are difficult to understand because: 1. He is a ghost and ghosts usually speak differently. 2. He appears at large distance from you and as in real life the distance makes sounds harder to hear. 3. What's worse, he shouts those words in large space with very high reverberation, which again makes them even more difficult to hear. There are reasons for that situation as you can see, besides the necessity of making the puzzle harder. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Quote: (Note a poster suggested they make some puzles fuzzier instead of harder)
I'm not sure if the word "scrambled" is used in a technical sense, but I was talking specifically about *fuzzy*, meaning hard to see the details. The visual equivalent of hard to hear the details. You didn't answer that question. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Yes, "fuzzy" could be used as well. For example to hide details of something but allowing to see only a shape which consequently can be used to figure out the hidden details. ******************************************** Bicardi Jim gave an excellent reply, as follows: ********************************************** He may have missed the point, Bijtje, but for once I am in total agreement with you. The first time you make the monk appear, he blurts out his chant before you can even grab your pencil, assuming you had one at the ready. Then you have to wander back and forth across that area hoping to trigger his reappearance. Lets say you finally get him to reappear and have pencil and notepaper ready... you start to write down what he says, but it is an unintelligible mishmash of sounds. There is simply NO WAY to transcribe the priest's chant without several repeated listenings. At least there wasn't for me. It took hearing it about 4-5 times. And like me or hate me, I think even my enemies will agree that I'm no moron. Simply put, Maciek is flat-out wrong when he contends that, "there is no need to go hear the monk more than twice." On the other hand, I will agree with him that the puzzle isn't "unfair." The random appearance of the priest when you hit the correct spot, the distortion of his voice, the distance between the priest and the "practice" prayer grinder (which FORCES you to write down the chant phonetically, as it takes several minutes to get from where you hear the chant to where you can practice repeating it) and the five "red herring" sets of grinders within the temple itself all contribute to make an already tough sound puzzle maddening. But it is fair. It just wasn't fun. ******************************************** And this was and is my final word on the whole matter. Salar ******************************************** Make Schizm fuzzier? They did that too. It was called the cd version Helllooo Maciek! Good to hear from you...even though I hardly agree with a word you've said *chuckles* Now, I listed Schizm as a favourite game for good reason. It certainly gave me that happy "aha" feeling when I *did* solve a puzzle/section. The plot was cool, The locations were amazing. I loved Hannah & Sam (Hi Sam!) The ending & a few of the puzzles..could have used a little more work. NO, I dont think it would have made the bridge "too easy" if I could have saved in between rounds. It wasnt easy the first time! It was a fun challenge until I found I had to win twice in a row to go on. (I'd love the circuit puzzle as a minigame, though) Tough but fair? uumm making me learn an alien system is fair, skippings nums in a standard measuring device is pushing it IMO If I need to learn something new, it helps if there is a way to learn it without more twists..like the neat mural y'all did of the survey machine at the temple or Myst's holographic control in Mechanical Age. and the Priest thing was cool to experience, but sadly you felt this incredible need to make a reasonably hard puzzle even harder by adding the reverberation (among other things). I hate to tell you this but We (my Mom and I) solved it intuitively without entirely understanding what was going on. My notes have five versions of the phonetics as we struggled with it. THEN we got to the prayer grinder wheel/color thing. All in all it took days to get past there. That whole experience wasnt nearly as entertaining as the parts that made it up ..the tiles, the speech, prayer grinders etc By contrast the airship sound puzzle was lovely. You could hear each piece clearly. The fish ship coordinates puzzle was fun, the first city coordinate challenge was fun. Working out the second set wasnt at all. Do you know how often I add coordinates in real life? Care to guess? How about a happy page explaining how to do this in the emergency technical journal Hannah wasn't carrying. 'Course I will still have to translate to Argilan but at least I have the principle... & Hey, I learned something! HHmmm its a balloon collector: Nice of the Professor to mumble that phrase about adding values before she vanished... Told me this was meant to be worked out as a math problem IF I could just work out how to set that up...(as opposed to overloading pressure on a pipe or something else) Do you see what I mean now? Clues dont have to be huge spoilers. Give me a good puzzle, yes! I love that! but please give me a way to solve it too. Overall, I think you guys did a great job & so we are looking forward to Schizm2. I'll give you this, there is a definite sense of having accomplished something in completing your game(s) Frankly, every puzzle seems easy when you know the answers. And makes sense when you know the reasons. The trick is conveying the necessary background to the player without spoiling the game. This is the bit that needs tweaking IMHO Sincerely, Salar *********************************************** It may help to know how they think when Schizm2 comes out.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="tongue.gif" />
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Re: For those of you who have played Schizm...
#117702
10/31/03 02:10 PM
10/31/03 02:10 PM
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Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 3,669 New York
Mary
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Thanks for posting, Salar. I particularly liked how you summed up: "...every puzzle seems easy when you know the answers...and makes sense when you know the reasons.." I don't know, I'm just not having fun here. I thought Black Dahlia had some extremely tough puzzles, and yes, I needed some help getting through them, but the story, IMHO, was strong enough to keep me going: I wanted to see what was going to happen next. I'm not getting that feeling here. I'm about to start the Bosh Tunnels, Part 2, but I can't say my heart's in it.
The answer is....chocolate! Who cares what the question is.....
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Re: For those of you who have played Schizm...
#117703
10/31/03 02:23 PM
10/31/03 02:23 PM
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,216 Virginia's wetland dimension
Salar of Myst
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Virginia's wetland dimension
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Thanks Mary The balloon collector puzzle drains self-confidence, thats its real evil purpose. I think Dogbert designed it... But if you've made it to the tunnels you are doing well! and the story *is* cool. Some bits of Schizm are walkthrough city for the non-mathmaticians (myself included) but others are FUN and its great when you *do* get something. Even that bridge is fun to beat...the first time. At least you know that pretty much everybody got stumped by this one somewhere. I think its worse when everyone says a game is easy and I get stuck. *rooting for you (quietly so you can hear that monk)* Salar 8)
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Re: For those of you who have played Schizm...
#117704
11/01/03 01:38 PM
11/01/03 01:38 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,506 hunched over my computer
wysewomon
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Salar --
Hey, thanks for your long post. It's interesting to see the developers' perspective, but I think you really hit the problems with Schizm spot on.
What really annoyed me about this game was how many variables each puzzle seemed to have. I guess maybe that IS more realistic --yeah, okay, ghosts traditionally sound funny and we wouldn't necessarily "get" the word breaks in an alien language -- but super realism doesn't always make for an enjoyable puzzle solving experience.
ww
"So then he says it's enough to take aim! What's that supposed to mean?!?"
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Re: For those of you who have played Schizm...
#117705
11/01/03 03:16 PM
11/01/03 03:16 PM
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,216 Virginia's wetland dimension
Salar of Myst
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Virginia's wetland dimension
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Thanks, Wysewoman. I try not to make too many of those long posts but I thought it worthwhile this time. IMHO Schizm's main flaw is easy to spot (& its responsible for all the others) The game designers would make a good puzzle but then found it "too easy" (knowing the answers) so they would add a twist or three until they were sure it would challenge them as players. I am sure they knew their Argilan nums, degree marks, and sound variables quite well after a year or so working with them! A little extra reverberation wouldn't have thrown them off. I sincerely enjoyed the story, graphics & machines though I also needed hints (starting with the balloon gas collector), help from my family AND, even with all that, a walkthrough nudge or three to see the surprisingly short ending. Those coordinates had me truly stumped! Susan <img border="0" alt=" " title="" src="graemlins/pacify.gif" />
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Re: For those of you who have played Schizm...
#117706
11/01/03 06:46 PM
11/01/03 06:46 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Well, so far I have only installed Schizm, haven't attempted to play it. As always, I checked for "patches" before installing and there were 4 different ones for various glitches. Not a very good advertisement for the game. Might have a fiddle with it later today.
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