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#119148 - 01/22/03 02:28 PM Schizm
Sharon72 Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 03/26/01
Posts: 114
Loc: North Dartmouth, Mass, USA
Hi all, I just want to vent a little, so please take no offense at what I am about to say...I think this game stunk! Hey, I am always up for a challenge, I, like most adventure gamers dont want puzzles to be easy, but who thought it would be a good idea to put trig/geometry into a puzzle?? I have a collge degree and still needed 2 different walkthroughs to HELP solve the target puzzle, and I do belive I finally got it by accident! I found this game too hard, and wished I had never played...it has kept me up at nite, trying to figure things out without consulting a walkthrough! For those who liked it, I apologize, for those who did not, I am on your side...sorry, just wanted to get that off my chest. ps.-I had my husband help me with the target puzzle too (he is NOT a gamer), and even he said he felt like he was back in school! Thanks for your time! Sharon laugh mad

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#119149 - 01/22/03 02:38 PM Re: Schizm
Witchen Offline
True Blue Boomer

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 22381
Loc: Seattle Washington USA
No offense taken on my part, Sharon! Schizm is generally considered to be one of the toughest adventure games going, and that perception includes its partner, Reah. Have you played that one? I didn't find the "target" puzzle easy either. I thought the toughest conundrum in this game, though, was trying to figure out when it was best to play as Hannah, and when one should switch to Sam, or when both should be in the same place working together or separately. That whole business was really challenging, IMHO.

Love, Witchen =O) smile

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#119150 - 01/22/03 02:55 PM Re: Schizm
Sharon72 Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 03/26/01
Posts: 114
Loc: North Dartmouth, Mass, USA
I am glad I am not crazy, and that someone else found this game HARD! I started feeling REALLY stupid, and am not even through with it, but cant not finish! thanks Witchen! Sharon

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#119151 - 01/22/03 03:29 PM Re: Schizm
looney Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 03/05/02
Posts: 3004
Loc: USA
Right on Sharon! I've been playing this thing too... I have decided to give it up because, if you aren't having any fun, then it's not an adventure, it's instructions! I love the thrill of solving a puzzle on my own, and Schizm was obviously meant for mensa geniuses! (to all who loved it...genius I tell ya!) This was a real stinker for me and I will not be keeping it! And it's nice to know I'm not alone!
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#119152 - 01/22/03 03:53 PM Re: Schizm
Incognitas Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 171
Loc: Between Portsmouth and Southam...
I too struggled with the maths and hard puzzles but the real stinker is the train bridge puzzle which I'm still stuck on for some 6 months.I had considered asking for a save game but after consulting a WT for a hint I decided against it as there seems to be many roads to get to this point and I haven't trod all of them.I will get back to it just as soon as I've finished Simon3d,EFMI4 and Betrayal at Antara and Nautilus.In fact that sounds like a really good idea.Byeeeee.

Incog.
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#119153 - 01/22/03 04:19 PM Re: Schizm
Witchen Offline
True Blue Boomer

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 22381
Loc: Seattle Washington USA
Hope you do get back to it Incog. And, there's plenty of help in Hints for this one too, if you don't want to use a walkthrough. The railroad bridge puzzle is tough, but the two sets of two successful passes at the computer grid puzzle are even tougher. And, how about the Prayer Wheel puzzle and the one where you enter each of five houses one time and leave each of them twice? Oh man! smile This game is full of hair-pullers. But, after you've succeeded.......what a celebration of will and wits!!! lol lol

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#119154 - 01/22/03 05:40 PM Re: Schizm
emma Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 04/17/00
Posts: 696
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Gosh, I managed to supress the memory of the houses... I did finally beat it, but I had to involve my brother and a coworker! LOL! I quite enjoyed Schizm, although I had to consult wt's. I thank Bert Jamin, for being able to finish it actually! laugh
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#119155 - 01/22/03 06:33 PM Re: Schizm
Bastet Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 04/13/02
Posts: 723
I Loved the game... no, I hated it.
Well, the graphics were beautiful, loved the game.
AHHH, the puzzles were soooo tiring, no, no, no, I hated the game! mad
But the graphics.... frown

Here is how I feel about this game: Why do you exist?

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#119156 - 01/22/03 06:57 PM Re: Schizm
lasanidine Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 05/06/01
Posts: 3424
Loc: WA. USA
I loved the game. The graphics were beautiful and I did no mind lingering at any place and figure things out. For me the sound puzzle was the hardest because at the time I did not have a good sound card. The railway connector puzzle made me pull my hair too. The trig puzzle was a good brain twister. How about setting the right coordinates on the fish ship?LOL
I love Rhea too.
At the risk of being killed by you all let me say;I hope those guys are making another game.
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Oscar Wilde

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#119157 - 01/22/03 07:27 PM Re: Schizm
Witchen Offline
True Blue Boomer

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 22381
Loc: Seattle Washington USA
HI Gang...........There definitely will be a Schizm sequel!

Delion has officially confirmed that a sequel to the game, Schizm, is in development. The game will be a 3-D rendered adventure game based on Lithtech's Jupiter engine. It will have a "pretty linear" story developed from the ground up none other than Terry Dowling! Detalion goes on to advise that this new issue will be a "challenging game," but "probably slightly easier than Schizm."

More to come.........

Love Witchen =O)

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#119158 - 01/23/03 02:21 AM Re: Schizm
Advpuzlov Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 06/05/99
Posts: 2027
Loc: USA
Oh my, I can't let this ride. SCHIZM is flying high as Number 2 on my List of Favorite Games. I thought the ability to switch characters was a delightful innovation. The puzzles were great, except for trying to make out what that priest was saying and what all those sounds were. I have a good ear for music, but that wasn't music. Aside from that, the puzzles were challenging enough to give me a sense of accomplishment when I worked them out. The toughest puzzle (not due to my inability to make out those low pitch grunts) was the second "Bridge Raising" puzzle. That was a dilly and cost me a lot of time, particularly since I had to do it twice because my computer went down (Power Company breakdown and not even an electrical storm around here) before I had a chance to SAVE the game. [That is why I spent the bucks to buy a battery emergency backup. I couldn't have something like that happen again!] The only thing that really bugs me is that I thought the denouement did not really resolve all the questions I had about the plot. Of course, that makes it ideal for a sequel, I guess. Come to think about it, I had the same objection about the ending of REAH, but more so, since I thought that ending was the very worst, so poorly thought out that it left me with a sour mouth for what was an otherwise very interesting game.

In short (and I am never short), I loved SCHIZM! thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup
_________________________
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. -- Aristotle

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#119159 - 01/23/03 06:44 AM Re: Schizm
sandgroper Offline
Shy Boomer

Registered: 10/06/00
Posts: 44
Loc: australia
hi i have to agree that the puzzles are hard i think i fluked a couple already still playing though. but hey the graphics and the colours in the game are so vibrant. mind you maybe its the dvd. i say any adventure game is good just to keep the genre alive. eek

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#119160 - 01/23/03 08:48 AM Re: Schizm
nolalou Offline
BAAG Specialist

Registered: 02/10/00
Posts: 5030
Loc: New Orleans, LA. USA
Sharon, don't feel bad. Some games grab me more than others, and some games everyone seems to like do nothing for me. It's all a mater of taste!

I had been looking forward to Schizm when it was still in development, but as I read about the hard puzzles, and some game reviews, I decided it probably wasn't the game for me, so I passed. (guess I don't have full blown BAAGS after all! smile )

Louis

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#119161 - 01/23/03 11:09 AM Re: Schizm
Witchen Offline
True Blue Boomer

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 22381
Loc: Seattle Washington USA
Louis, Louis....It's not too late, my friend. lol And there is an incredible amount of excellent help available for Schizm here at Boomers. You really don't want to miss this one! Really! smile

Love, Witchen =O)

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#119162 - 01/23/03 02:01 PM Re: Schizm
Jenny100 Offline
GB Reviewer Glitches Moderator
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 10/24/00
Posts: 35199
Loc: southeast USA
The DVD version of Schizm had some of the most incredibly beautiful graphics I've ever seen in a computer game - matched only by the Myst series. But some of the puzzles were ridiculously hard. Even with a decent sound card the sounds weren't easy to differentiate in the sound puzzles. And I had the worst time trying to draw pictures of those urns...

It's possible to make a "challenging" game which has puzzles that aren't so obscure. And if they produce another puzzle like the bridge puzzle for Schizm 2, I hope they allow you the option of saving in between bridges. It wasn't a bad puzzle, but even if you develop a strategy for solving it there is some luck involved in actually winning twice in a row.

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#119163 - 01/23/03 02:31 PM Re: Schizm
Namma Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 11/09/00
Posts: 1793
Loc: The Middle of the Sonoran Dese...
Quote:
Originally posted by Jenny100:
Even with a decent sound card the sounds weren't easy to differentiate in the sound puzzles.
And to make matters worse I'm tone deaf. There was no way I would have made it through that part without the aid of a WT.

But it's still one of my all time favorite games.

Hugs, Cheryl
_________________________
Life is not measured by the breaths you take,
it is measured by the moments that take your
breath away.

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#119164 - 01/23/03 02:39 PM Re: Schizm
Jenny100 Offline
GB Reviewer Glitches Moderator
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 10/24/00
Posts: 35199
Loc: southeast USA
Not being tone deaf didn't help. The problem wasn't with pitch. It was with trying to transcribe very alien-sounding words. And they sounded so garbled...
It would have helped if there had been a text option so you could see how the sound was spelled and could match it if you heard it (and saw it displayed) later on.

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#119165 - 01/23/03 02:57 PM Re: Schizm
mszv Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 03/18/02
Posts: 1565
Loc: Pennsylvania, USA (left my bel...
I have Schizm and I probably won't even begin to play it until I get the game guide - from what I can see from what you have said, a walkthrough won't be enough.

Some days I think it would be worth my while to just PAY gameboomers to play the hard parts in the game for me. But, that would be defeating the purpose, wouldn't it?

A trig/geometry puzzle? Where's that walkthrough!
_________________________
mszv, amarez in Myst Online (KI 89257)and my online worlds.

blog - http://www.amarez.com, Twitter - http://www.twitter.com/amareze

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#119166 - 01/23/03 04:18 PM Re: Schizm
BillyBob Offline
BAAG Specialist

Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 7858
Loc: North Florida
After a certain point in the game I just wasn't in a mood to wrestle with most of the puzzles so I used Bert Jamin's WT and had no problems whatsoever following it. I think you'll find it at www.gamesover.com It was probably the "extended DVD" version (it's in English) because it discribed the Telescope Puzzle which was not in the CD version which I had. I simply skipped past that part. laugh
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I didn't do it......and if I did I'm not guilty!

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#119167 - 01/23/03 04:39 PM Re: Schizm
Witchen Offline
True Blue Boomer

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 22381
Loc: Seattle Washington USA
BillyBob is so right, mszv.......And we have more than one excellent walkthrough for Schizm and Bert's is outstanding, for sure. Also, as I mentioned above, there is a lot of expert help here at Boomers for the game. Its a grand game,honest! wink

Love, Witchen =O)

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#119168 - 01/23/03 05:14 PM Re: Schizm
mszv Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 03/18/02
Posts: 1565
Loc: Pennsylvania, USA (left my bel...
OK good, I don't have to buy a game guide!

I think if there was a contest on "laziest adventure gameboomer" I would win.

I do want to play Schizm, I just don't want to have solve trig puzzles, if that makes sense.

My list of "games to play" was never that big, but gameboomers are a really bad influence.
_________________________
mszv, amarez in Myst Online (KI 89257)and my online worlds.

blog - http://www.amarez.com, Twitter - http://www.twitter.com/amareze

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#119169 - 01/23/03 06:10 PM Re: Schizm
lasanidine Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 05/06/01
Posts: 3424
Loc: WA. USA
I must admit that puzzles were hard in this game but this is how things would happen if you were suddenly put down on an alien planet. You would have to figure things out without knowing the language, numbers or directions. It really gave me the feeling that I was in a totally alien place and this was reinforced all through the game, it was a true adventure.

I would have liked it if the game elaborated more on those interesting symbiotic relationships of animate and inanimate things...
_________________________
"I am not young enough to know everything."

Oscar Wilde

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#119170 - 01/23/03 06:28 PM Re: Schizm
Advpuzlov Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 06/05/99
Posts: 2027
Loc: USA
Quote:
Originally posted by mszv:
I have Schizm and I probably won't even begin to play it until I get the game guide - from what I can see from what you have said, a walkthrough won't be enough.
If you are interested, I can send you as an attachment my Game Journal for SCHIZM, which some people might think is closer to a game guide than a walkthrough. Just let me know.
_________________________
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. -- Aristotle

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#119171 - 01/23/03 06:31 PM Re: Schizm
Advpuzlov Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 06/05/99
Posts: 2027
Loc: USA
Oh, MSZV, I might warn you, it is 76 typewritten pages long, so have plenty of paper in your printer. laugh
_________________________
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. -- Aristotle

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#119172 - 01/23/03 06:42 PM Re: Schizm
Scout Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 11/17/01
Posts: 1118
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Advpuzlov,

I haven't played Schizm either, and if it's not too much trouble I'd love a copy of your guide. Reading all the posts on the extreme difficulty of this game has made me more than a bit leery of it. I've got the DVD version if that makes any difference.

Thanks,

Mike

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#119173 - 01/23/03 10:47 PM Re: Schizm
mszv Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 03/18/02
Posts: 1565
Loc: Pennsylvania, USA (left my bel...
Adpuzlov, I sent you an email asking for your game guide, that would be wonderful. You know, then I might actually play it! I too have the DVD version.
_________________________
mszv, amarez in Myst Online (KI 89257)and my online worlds.

blog - http://www.amarez.com, Twitter - http://www.twitter.com/amareze

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#119174 - 01/24/03 08:29 AM Re: Schizm
Sharon72 Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 03/26/01
Posts: 114
Loc: North Dartmouth, Mass, USA
Im sorry Witchen, did you say that there was going to be a Schizm sequel?????????????????? I think the first one has caused enough medical problems in me for me to NOT get the second one (ie. depression, insomnia, not to mention the need for anger management!!) LOL! I cant even believe a sequel...:-)Sharon

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#119175 - 01/24/03 11:15 AM Re: Schizm
Witchen Offline
True Blue Boomer

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 22381
Loc: Seattle Washington USA
Hi Sharon.....Yes, definitely! smile There will be a sequel to Schizm. See my message on this further up the line a bit.

Love, Witchen =O) smile

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#119176 - 01/24/03 11:48 AM Re: Schizm
mszv Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 03/18/02
Posts: 1565
Loc: Pennsylvania, USA (left my bel...
Hi all,
For people who have, shall we say a "mixed" reaction to Schizm, here is a comment that someone made in dslreports.com that might apply to you, when you play Schizm. Incidentally,for those of you who tried to install broadband DSL up to say, a year ago, you can see how this comment can apply to both Schizm and DSL!

The Good News: I have learned to manage my anger.

The Bad News: I HAD to learn to manage my anger!
_________________________
mszv, amarez in Myst Online (KI 89257)and my online worlds.

blog - http://www.amarez.com, Twitter - http://www.twitter.com/amareze

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#119177 - 01/24/03 01:02 PM Re: Schizm
Sharon72 Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 03/26/01
Posts: 114
Loc: North Dartmouth, Mass, USA
I did see you message a little ways up witchen, I was being facetious...I am at the bridge puzzle now and I have come to the conclusion that the scope/geometry puzzle was easy...how sad is that! Have a good one ya'll, Sharon

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#119178 - 01/24/03 02:20 PM Re: Schizm
Witchen Offline
True Blue Boomer

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 22381
Loc: Seattle Washington USA
Hi Sharon.........Yuppers, the facetiousness didn't quite come across I guess....LOL lol !


"...how sad is that!"

Not sad at all! This is one tough game and it doesn't get easy toward the end. wink

Love, Witchen =O)

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#119179 - 01/24/03 02:40 PM Re: Schizm
Rckasea Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 08/11/00
Posts: 2565
Loc: Colden,N.Y.
Schzim,Schzim,Schzim;
Wow, what a love/hate game huh!
I have not yet got the game to install on full 3.3GB, 5 CD-ROM version. While waiting for a response from Dreamcatchers on that, I did the
only other option, install at 220MB and play off my CD-ROM drive. The colors and such are great.
Guess what happens when you switch between the two main characters? DING! DING! DING! You also swap back and forth between Disk #1 and #2. I would venture to say this must be the though out the rest of the game. I have only just started and have yet to solve my first puzzle. I did see a ghost, I think. Reading the posts here, I do not think anyone would want to add this extra hassle to playing this game. It is to be shelved for now. If anyone ever played this game on min. installation, I would love to know.
_________________________
" If you decide not to chose, You still have made a choice"....Getty Lee

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#119180 - 01/24/03 03:39 PM Re: Schizm
Maciek Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 07/14/01
Posts: 115
Loc: Rzeszow, Poland
Okay, it’s Friday evening, I’m still at work, but I can waste some time with the forum instead of working in Schizm 2. So let’s discuss the original Schizm’s puzzles. Again.

I don’t remember the puzzles too well, therefore I went to the excellent Universal Hint System, to check hints for Schizm and build a list of puzzles. I just want to check how many of them involve math. Is Schizm indeed a math-only game?


Possible spoilers below!





1. Oil dispenser – hardly a puzzle, bring what’s necessary and receive an item. No math.
2. Tulip shaped objects – crank some dials and find the required sequence. This puzzle often is solved by accident – poor design indeed. No math.
3. Spike-like objects – again, use the lantern, observe results and make all spikes extend. No math.
4. Living ship navigation console – find some symbols and use them. No math at this point, later the navigational coordinates will require some serious *adding* and *subtracting*.
5. Peal dispenser – quite easy, notice some symbols and enter them in required sequence (two tries at most). No math.
6. Gas distributor – very hard puzzle. Require adding, but this hardly can be considered as math. At most you have to count to 55 (with fingers, matches, toothpicks or anything similar if counting in memory is “too mathematical”) but usually counting to 6 and a lucky guess are enough, but you have to figure out how the solution works. I admit that this puzzle should be later in the game, but with pre-rendered games it’s difficult to move puzzle if it happens to be too difficult. It requires several months of re-rendering. Okay, some very basic math – counting – probably pre-school level.
7. Reading disc – very easy puzzle. No math.
8. Entering coordinates in air ship – no math at all, very easy.
9. Prayer grinders – yes, the sound puzzle. Doesn’t require musical ear though, just remembering hard to understand words in alien language. I intentionally made those sounds harder to understand, this was a kind of partially obstructed written message, but delivered orally. The rest of the puzzle – shapes, colors and sounds – is not difficult. No math.
10. Air ship lock – always close doors behind. No math.
11. Hermat’s Pillars – yes, this is the infamous trigonometry puzzle. Quite complicated – measure pillars, take many readings and ask for help your fellow roommates, friends, co-workers, family members etc. - we need to solve a very simple trigonometric equation. Yes, this is the only mathematical puzzle in the game – I do not consider adding and subtracting to be a math.
12. Black statue – bring an item and use on it. No math.
13. Matia’s Zone naval coordinates – okay, some math – adding and subtracting in 12 based numbering system. A “trick” with borrow confused many, who operated on each digits individually and not as a whole number. Some math.
14. Prison water – easy, if you figure out that both protagonists are needed. No math.
15. Drawbridge – two wheels to turn and observed results. No math.
16. Village of Matiani – enter twice, exit once. Although it requires counting up to two, it is not a math puzzle.
17. Dam door – collect two cards, use settings from one to decode the other. No math.
18. The railway bridges – this one proved to be very difficult puzzle for many. It is strange because we tested it mostly with non-adventure players (including me), who managed to beat the machine very quickly, especially knowing the winning method – defending (UHS suggest offense, but I think that defense works much better in second set of plays). We thought that the puzzle was way too easy after initial tests, and added the requirement of winning twice in a row. BTW save in the middle doesn’t make sense – it would be better to require only one win. It is a difficult puzzle (show stopper for many, unfortunately), but no math.
19. Train – hardly a puzzle. Learn symbols and destinations. No math.
20. Telescope – no math, although the knowledge of binary search algorithm helps in solving the puzzle.
21. Lights sequence – very easy puzzle. Remember the sequence of light flashes and use it. No math.
22. Mechanical computer – yes, the ability to access it early in the game disorientated many players. They tried to fiddle with the machine, which is required at the very late stages. But the puzzle is easy, although sometimes requires long trips back to the areas of the game already visited. Gather different clues from the entire game and use it on the machine. The result is used then to opening the Matia’s hideout (the egg). No math.
23. The final puzzle – bring everything to the Matia’s Zone – the living ship, the airship and both protagonists. Move Matia to the living ship. No math.
24. The ending – bring both protagonists to the living ship and fly to the stars. No math.

Hmm, to me, there are plenty of non-mathematical puzzles in Schizm. Frankly speaking, the majority of them don’t involve even counting. Yes, I know, some of the puzzles are difficult, probably too difficult, but not because of math.
_________________________
Maciej Miasik
www.detalion.com

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#119181 - 01/24/03 04:57 PM Re: Schizm
Witchen Offline
True Blue Boomer

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 22381
Loc: Seattle Washington USA
Hi there Maciek..........Thanks so very much for taking the time to elaborate and explain the variety of puzzles in Schizm. Much appreciated!

As for my personal opinion, though, I'd just as soon you were working on Schizm II! lol lol I can't wait!

Love, Witchen =O)

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#119182 - 01/24/03 08:31 PM Re: Schizm
gatorlaw Offline
Adept Boomer

Registered: 11/01/99
Posts: 10308
I shied away from playing Schizm for a while - cause I thought it sounded too math based. But I got the DVD version (no CD swapping) and was immediately wowed by the graphics.

The railroad trestle puzzle didn;t seem too bad to me at all - but then I tend to play these things defensively anyway and just fiddle with them. I got stuck a bit with the gas collector problem - but hey I figure that's what WT's/hints are for wink Amzing cut scenes and great ending.

Count me a definte yes for any sequal to this impressive game smile

Laura
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#119183 - 01/24/03 11:28 PM Re: Schizm
BaldBob Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 02/12/00
Posts: 162
Loc: California
I truly loath having to slam a true Adventure game.

But Schizm is a true stinker (just like Obsidian, which some mazzo in here recommended to play.... TWICE!)

Here's the deal with the puzzles (and I stated this before, and one of the developers "corrected" me): They developed the puzzles FIRST. Thought it was clever. Then put it in the game without looking at the game progession, and seeing that it was indecipherable when you didn't develop the thing from the beginning, and were playing from the beginning.

Will I buy Schizm Deux? Maybe... but let's be more aware that Trigonometry is only fun if there's a solution that doesn't involve a Cray computer.

(Note: you didn't "beat" us when you made the rules incomprehensible.)

And Obdsidian still is the worst...No Redemption.

Bob

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#119184 - 01/25/03 03:22 AM Re: Schizm
Advpuzlov Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 06/05/99
Posts: 2027
Loc: USA
Quoting MACIEK
Quote:
9. Prayer grinders – yes, the sound puzzle. Doesn't require musical ear though, just remembering hard to understand words in alien language.
The prayer grinders were not what bothered me. It was the very low pitch, hardly understandable Priest mumblings that caused me pain. If I can hear a sound I can duplicate it and recognize it when it comes up again, but that's if I can actually hear it. If you recheck my earlier reply you will note that SCHIZM stands at 2/50 in my list of favorite games, so that irritation did not turn me off the game. The 2nd bridge-raising computer game was, in my mind, the toughest, but I found that if I cut off my opponent, I could get through. Since I saved before that game, I have played it several times since that time and, as before, enjoyed it. In fact, even more so as I got better and better at beating my computer opponent. laugh

Let me stress that the puzzles were in many respects the strong point of SCHIZM and I would be disappointed if you would "water down" SCHIZM II. I also very much liked to be able to work from the point of view of two characters and I thought it particularly interesting the one time that they had to work together to solve a puzzle. You might think of incorporating more of these "required cooperation" puzzles in SCHIZM II. SCHIZM was a fairly long game, which I like. I'd rather have a "novel" than a "short story" in an Adventure/Puzzle game.

I'm very much looking forward to SCHIZM II (I assume that it will be "point and click" and not keyboard), but please don't let any of your characters "mumble in a very low pitch."
_________________________
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. -- Aristotle

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#119185 - 01/25/03 05:16 AM Re: Schizm
Betje Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 08/30/02
Posts: 334
Loc: the Netherlands
Quote:
Originally posted by Maciek:

Hmm, to me, there are plenty of non-mathematical puzzles in Schizm. Frankly speaking, the majority of them don't involve even counting. Yes, I know, some of the puzzles are difficult, probably too difficult, but not because of math. [/QB]
Define math.

For instance, figuring out the solution to the gas distributor does require a mathematical way of thinking.

Betje
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#119186 - 01/25/03 06:48 AM Re: Schizm
colpet Offline
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Registered: 01/07/01
Posts: 1800
Loc: Orillia, Ontario, Canada
I'm with Advpuzlov on this one. I have the DVD Schizm, which probably made gameplay smoother.
Sure, the puzzles were hard, but they were logical (for me). I did a save just before the priest mumbles the sequence, and I was able to listen to it over and over again to discern the phonetics. I will be looking forward to a 'point and click' Schizm II.
BTW, I really enjoyed Obsidian and will likely play it again. Could someone please define the term 'mazzo' for me? :-)
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#119187 - 01/25/03 10:13 AM Re: Schizm
Maciek Offline
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Registered: 07/14/01
Posts: 115
Loc: Rzeszow, Poland
Quote:
Here's the deal with the puzzles (and I stated this before, and one of the developers "corrected" me): They developed the puzzles FIRST. Thought it was clever. Then put it in the game without looking at the game progession, and seeing that it was indecipherable when you didn't develop the thing from the beginning, and were playing from the beginning.
I don't know who developed the game that way, but this weren't us. The initial story was first, then the puzzles, then the rest of story, then the rest of over 2 years of development. Unfortunately, we can't always properly judge the puzzle on paper - sometimes it needs to be tested in real life (e.g. in the game) to show all its drawbacks or advantages. Also, usually the game is developed in different order than is played, therefore it's too late to change it significantly at late stages which means that sometimes we end up with less then perfect puzzles (too hard for example) at the beginning of the gameplay. And in case of pre-rendered game, the time between the puzzle design and its implementation is very long, over a year sometimes and any change requires several months of work. If there's time for that, we change, if there isn't we have to accept puzzle as it is, or remove it altogether.

Quote:
Maybe... but let's be more aware that Trigonometry is only fun if there's a solution that doesn't involve a Cray computer.
Okay, I checked the puzzle again, and this is geometry puzzle (not trigonometry) and requires the knowledge of Tales theorem (in one of its easiest form), something which we learn here in an elementary school. Definitely Cray machine isn't required for solving it but the paper and pencil is enough (that is only 4 numbers involved for each tower, from each 2 are constant for all of them). The puzzle show the required solution in a form of fresco on the wall, therefore it isn't even necessary to know that this is Tales at all (I had to run a google search to check it).

Quote:
If I can hear a sound I can duplicate it and recognize it when it comes up again, but that's if I can actually hear it.
I've already admitted that I did it intentionally. I thought that this puzzle would be way too easy if we could clearly hear the words. The priest doesn't mumble, his speech is clear, but he is at some distance in very reverberant room - which distorts his message. I think this is very fair obstacle, making the puzzle harder.

Quote:
I would be disappointed if you would "water down" SCHISMS II
I believe we have some quite challenging puzzles ready for Schizm 2, but we've learned the lesson and would try to avoid "show stoppers". The game is going to be linear this time, for sake of better story development. Also, non-linearity of Schizm confused many people, we want them to solve puzzles not cope with their confusion.

Quote:
For instance, figuring out the solution to the gas distributor does require a mathematical way of thinking.
I think this very logical puzzle where math (counting) plays only supporting role. Even if we consider this puzzle to be a math one, there's still non-math puzzles left.

Quote:
I'm very much looking forward to SCHIZM II (I assume that it will be "point and click" and not keyboard)
Schizm 2 will be the first person perspective game, controlled with the mouse (or mouse and keyboard for those who play other FPP games, like FPP shooters). I don't know if it satisfies you...
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#119188 - 01/25/03 11:40 AM Re: Schizm
Namma Offline
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Registered: 11/09/00
Posts: 1793
Loc: The Middle of the Sonoran Dese...
I'm eagerly anticipating Schizm II.

Other than trying to decipher the sounds from the prayer grinders (which I needed help for) I loved every puzzle in Schizm. I especially liked playing as two people. Seemed logical to me that sometimes I could do things on my own and that at other times I would need help from my partner.

Back to work Maciek! Some of us are hungry!

Hugs, Cheryl
(Another Obsidian Fan)
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#119189 - 01/25/03 12:04 PM Re: Schizm
colpet Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 01/07/01
Posts: 1800
Loc: Orillia, Ontario, Canada
Quote:
"Schizm 2 will be the first person perspective game, controlled with the mouse (or mouse and keyboard for those who play other FPP games, like FPP shooters). I don't know if it satisfies you..."

Yay bravo
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#119190 - 01/25/03 12:20 PM Re: Schizm
Betje Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 08/30/02
Posts: 334
Loc: the Netherlands
Quote:
Originally posted by Maciek:
Quote:
Okay, I checked the puzzle again, and this is geometry puzzle (not trigonometry) and requires the knowledge of Tales theorem (in one of its easiest form), something which we learn here in an elementary school.


[QUOTE]For instance, figuring out the solution to the gas distributor does require a mathematical way of thinking.
I think this very logical puzzle where math (counting) plays only supporting role. Even if we consider this puzzle to be a math one, there's still non-math puzzles left.
In elementary school? Really? I'm flabbergasted!
(Flabbergasted is one of my favourite English words, it has such a nice jabberwockyish feeling to it. laugh )

To me, counting is just arithmetics. I agree that the counting is no problem, once you've figured out the (mathematical) solution. Maybe the real problem is that we're both non-natives who are trying to communicate in English...

Betje
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#119191 - 01/26/03 12:12 PM Re: Schizm
Homer6 Offline
BAAG Specialist

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 5460
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
Add me to the list of people who started Schizm and so far, haven't finished. The very first problem I encountered was the game hanging at the wrong moments; even a replacement disk didn't solve the problem. Some puzzles I did figure out, others I've yet to encounter. When my mind set improves, I may return and try to finish Schizm. Right after I finish Chemicus, that is...
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#119192 - 01/26/03 08:18 PM Re: Schizm
Jenny100 Offline
GB Reviewer Glitches Moderator
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 10/24/00
Posts: 35199
Loc: southeast USA
Is Schizm 2 going to have a different name? I remember reading something about the name getting changed because Schizm was a dirty word in some language or other.

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#119193 - 01/26/03 11:18 PM Re: Schizm
lasanidine Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 05/06/01
Posts: 3424
Loc: WA. USA
I think that Schizem is one of the best adventure games I have ever played. The graphics are beautiful, the game plays without glitches or hang-ups, the puzzles are logical and the story is very interesting. The only other games that come close to this are Rhea and TimeLapse. Do I hear anyone complain about the arrow puzzle in there, I think it was harder and more time consuming than any puzzle in Schizm, it only needed less brains.
I cannot wait for Schizm II and I hope it will not be a watered down version of Schizm I. Yes we want quality games with good puzzles that are logical, pertinent to the game and make us think.
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#119194 - 01/27/03 05:01 AM Re: Schizm
Maciek Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 07/14/01
Posts: 115
Loc: Rzeszow, Poland
Quote:
Is Schizm 2 going to have a different name? I remember reading something about the name getting changed because Schizm was a dirty word in some language or other.
The title change is very likely - this will be publisher's decision. The working title is Schizm 2 at this moment.
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www.detalion.com

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#119195 - 01/27/03 02:46 PM Re: Schizm
Jenny100 Offline
GB Reviewer Glitches Moderator
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 10/24/00
Posts: 35199
Loc: southeast USA
So it's Dreamcatcher's decision?
I hope they come up with something better than "Mysterious Journey 2."

Is Schizm 2 going to feature the same world and characters as Schizm? I remember that Schizm was known as Reah 2 for a while, even though it had nothing to do with the story in Reah.

I'm looking forward to seeing screenshots from the new game. Schizm had some of the most beautiful graphics that I've seen in a game.

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#119196 - 01/27/03 03:16 PM Re: Schizm
Hanksdog Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 07/21/02
Posts: 1318
Loc: Mandeville, LA
************

JENNY 100....

AMEN !!!!!
*****
Not my cup of tea...wworking with two dimensions and pulling one guy along ccause you can do 3/4 of the puzzle with one and have the other tag along.....I hated the dial puzzle and don't get me started on the puzzle to raise the two parts of the bridge...espedially when the computer went first...POO...BLAH !!!

Give me something more fun like Myst or Riven or Exile or Zork, or Sanitarium......ANYDAY...

ALL our love......Hank and Blanche wave
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#119197 - 01/27/03 04:31 PM Re: Schizm
Rckasea Offline
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Registered: 08/11/00
Posts: 2565
Loc: Colden,N.Y.
Hey Homer6,
How did ya get a replacement disk? I wrote Dreamcatcher twice now. I cannot even finnish the installation of disk #3. I cannot play this game on min. install, too crazy. Let me know.
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#119198 - 01/27/03 05:21 PM Re: Schizm
Advpuzlov Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 06/05/99
Posts: 2027
Loc: USA
MACIEK
Quote:
I've already admitted that I did it intentionally. I thought that this puzzle would be way too easy if we could clearly hear the words. The priest doesn't mumble, his speech is clear, but he is at some distance in very reverberant room - which distorts his message. I think this is very fair obstacle, making the puzzle harder.
Please! Make the puzzle harder by putting more demands on the intelligence and NOT their hearing (or for all that their "seeing" by making it dark or blurry as some game designers do.) Demands like that are the equivalent of "pixel hunting" annoyances.
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#119199 - 01/27/03 09:21 PM Re: Schizm
Homer6 Offline
BAAG Specialist

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 5460
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
I was able to play the game on min. install, but things froze to often. So I uninstalled the game, reinstalled the min. install and things still froze. What I then did was shut off everything I didn't need, screen saver, virus scan, and went through the End Task screen and shut off everything but Explorier and Systray; Dreamcatcher will have you do the above any way. Then uninstalled the game, reinstalled the min. install and still had the problem. Do this on your system, before you contact Dreamcatcher. I went to www.dreamcatchergames.com and went to the Tech section and left a message, and my e-mail address. A few days later, I received an e-mail telling me to do the things above, which I told them I had already done. They asked for my mailing address and in a short time I had a new disk. Now I don't know if this will throw a wrench in your works, but I have the DVD version of Schizm, so I don't really know which disks they would be sending to you. Hope this helps, and good luck.
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#119200 - 01/28/03 10:36 AM Re: Schizm
Maciek Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 07/14/01
Posts: 115
Loc: Rzeszow, Poland
Quote:
So it's Dreamcatcher's decision?
I hope they come up with something better than "Mysterious Journey 2."
Yes, they have the right to change the title (as most publishers do) - and as you know they routinely change titles.

Quote:
Is Schizm 2 going to feature the same world and characters as Schizm? I remember that Schizm was known as Reah 2 for a while, even though it had nothing to do with the story in Reah.
No, we've never considered Schizm as Reah's sequel and never used Reah 2 title, even as a working one (actually working title for original game was 3, because this was the team's third game for our producers LK Avalon).

Schizm 2 and Schizm 1 don't share the same characters, maybe the universe is the same, but those game won't reference each other. They share the same theme though - two parties divided.

Quote:
Please! Make the puzzle harder by putting more demands on the intelligence and NOT their hearing (or for all that their "seeing" by making it dark or blurry as some game designers do.) Demands like that are the equivalent of "pixel hunting" annoyances.
I do not agree with you. This is not the equivalent of pixel hunting. Pixel hunting is completely clueless action - with this sound puzzle you knew what to do.

This is the equivalent of the text written somewhere, with parts of it missing. Obviously, this demands from the player more than just writing it down and using elsewhere.

Yes, this put some stress on the hearing but this is normal with sound bases puzzles. It seems that many players wouldn't protest that much if the sentence was said in the language they know, with the same level of intelligibility. I think that this is very fair puzzle which combines several elements - shapes, colors, and sounds (easy to hear and hard to hear). The puzzles are meant to be challenging sometimes, and the challenge can have different forms.
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