Hey Jenny,

I hear you there! Why on earth aren't online purchases "counted" when you see sales figures for games mentioned?

Ray,

I sure agree with you about the quality of certain adventure games. A lot of people consider me an RPGer and action/adventure gamer. I've kinda been "forced" to broaden my horizons in an attempt to find great story-driven games. I have been an adventure gamer since the late 1980's (Deja vu, it's Sierra! Laura Bow! King's Quest! Space Quest!). 8 out of 10 of my all-time fav games are pure adventure games- Laura Bow, Tex Murphy, Byzantine: The Betrayal, GK2, Ripper... But *why* are all of my all-time fav, classic, over-the-top greats *old?*

Yes, I enjoyed the Messenger and Paris 1313 all right, but where are the new "total classics?" Besides TLJ and Shadow of Destiny (PS2), we're subsisting on some less-than-stellar stuff here at times, I agree...

Oh Roberta and Ken, come back!

First let me admit that I don't have BAAGS, but if it is a even half decent Naval Simulation I will probably end up getting it. And I would buy it first over an Adventure Game. Why? Several reasons:

1. It's close as I'll ever come to a commercial representation of my profession in the Military. Even though it is for a lesser branch of service, you learn to make do where possible.

2. Replayabilty and diversity of outcomes. With most simulations while the goal of the mission being played is the same every time, there is usually a wide varity of options that can be employed in achieving that goal. There are also a fairly wide range of results from the way that you fail, if you do. This is often true of strategy games also, whether turn-based or RTS.

In my limited experience this is not true for Adventure games and their puzzles. Riven being an exception and then only with some puzzles. For most of the adventure games the puzzles have one and only one correct solution no matter how many times you play. Randomness is not considered to be a virtue by most adventure gamers when it comes to puzzle solutions, at least from what I've seen posted on this board and read in either walk throughs or reviews elsewhere.

3. The challange of me vs. the machine. Can I use the proper strategy and tactics to achieve my overall goal or will the machine win because I either failed to account for something or over estimated my hand. The next time through can I make proper adjustments for my mistakes or will some new factor foil me again. With adventure games once I know the solution to the puzzle it is always the solution and a correct solution gives the same results. The same incorrect solution also always gives the same results. There are exceptions such as randomizing combinations to locks or as Tally Ho points out in his slider instructions to some starting positions, but it is true by and large. This is one of the reasons that with adventure games I look for a slightly different set of criteria than most of you profess to use in judging a game.

I want my puzzles to be logical, difficult to figure out is great, but logical solutions are important or it should be clear that you should try anything so that you eventually find that dropping a worm down a murder-hole followed by a cannonball opens a secret passage and not just splats a worm. The thing that I want next or maybe even first is a great looking and interesting environment to walk around in. This is probably the biggest attraction for me of Riven, Myst III, RealMyst, and Beyound Atlantis. To some extent this is also true for ROTS and Crystal Key. I periodically will start a session of the these just to visit and forget the puzzles unless essential to my wanderings.

4. So for me to really buy into Adventure gaming big time, like some of you have, they are probably going to be going further from what you find attractive and run the prices even higher. All of which will probably result in either losing many of the current supporters of the style or failure to acquire a significant number of people like me to keep things moving forward.

Ken

Adventure games the only genre that's an art form? Grr, TSS, them's fighting words!

I truly believe Thief 2, Planescape Torment, Baldur's Gate 1&2, System Shock 2, Outcast and Deus Ex to be works of art as much as any adventure I've ever played.

Another point about economics and Myst clones. If I understand correctly, third-person adventures were the most popular format before Myst. I think first person (pre-rendered) games are much more expensive to produce, because there's just MUCH more art to produce. In a 3rd person game, you can have a lot happen on one big screen: Simon the Sorceror can run around all over the place. But in a first-person game, every step you take requires new art.

Of course, I've always preferred first person adventures, so I must be part of the problem . . .