GAMEBOOMERS provides you with all the latest PC adventure computer games information, forum, walkthroughs, reviews and news.

GB Reviews

Latest & Upcoming Adventure Games

GB Annual Game Lists

GB Interviews

BAAGS

GB @ acebook

About Us

Walkthroughs

free games galore

Game Publishers & Developers

World of Adventure

Patches

GB @ witter

GameBoomers Store

Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
More action creepin' in ???? #122741
05/15/03 04:45 PM
05/15/03 04:45 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 34,287
United Kingdom
Mad Offline OP
Sonic Boomer
Mad  Offline OP
Sonic Boomer

Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 34,287
United Kingdom
Hi.

Just saw on the adventure news group that the new TLJ is going to be an "action/adventure" frown frown

The subscriber there gleaned this information from an interview (unfortunately not in English) from this link :



QUOTE.....
While visiting JustAdventure's forums, I found a link to an interview
(in Norwegian) http://www.vg.no/pub/vgart.hbs?artid=59612 with Ragnar
T

Last edited by looney4labs; 06/26/07 11:14 AM. Reason: remove broken link

Time : The Most Precious Commodity
Re: More action creepin' in ???? #122742
05/15/03 06:30 PM
05/15/03 06:30 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,964
San Francisco
fov Offline
Addicted Boomer
fov  Offline
Addicted Boomer

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,964
San Francisco
i saw this discussed at adventuregamers. i thought it was a joke at first.

not pleased. i wasn't on the edge of my seat waiting for TLJ2... but i wouldn't have minded another game of the same caliber.

i hope they find some way to make it work. april ryan as lara croft, anyone?

-emily

Re: More action creepin' in ???? #122743
05/15/03 06:36 PM
05/15/03 06:36 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 623
Saxton
JonathanBoakes Offline
Settled Boomer
JonathanBoakes  Offline
Settled Boomer

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 623
Saxton
Looks like we should start oiling our pistols...

Shame really.


The ghosts are waiting, in the dark places, the forgotten places. Waiting for you: Darkling Room Games
Re: More action creepin' in ???? #122744
05/15/03 06:43 PM
05/15/03 06:43 PM
Joined: May 1999
Posts: 22,381
Seattle Washington USA
Witchen Offline
True Blue Boomer
Witchen  Offline
True Blue Boomer

Joined: May 1999
Posts: 22,381
Seattle Washington USA
I think you're probably right, Jonathan, but we won't have to worry about combat in Dark Fall II....that's for darn sure, right? I, for one, appreciate that. Jumping out of my skin is quite enuff' action for me, thank you veddy much! LOL

Love, Witchen =O)

Re: More action creepin' in ???? #122745
05/15/03 07:25 PM
05/15/03 07:25 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 623
Saxton
JonathanBoakes Offline
Settled Boomer
JonathanBoakes  Offline
Settled Boomer

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 623
Saxton
I love a good action game like the next trigger happy pacifist (currently playing UT'03 fan made levels) but action/adventure doesn't tend to mix too well. The action game developers seem to be much better at including puzzle elements than the adventure developers seem to be at including action elements. It's either "walk the dodgy 3D boards" or "dodge the 3D bullets".... it's only included to extend the game play, and frustrate the player.

No "action" in DFII. But you might need your reading glasses, and a good dollop of imagination.


The ghosts are waiting, in the dark places, the forgotten places. Waiting for you: Darkling Room Games
Re: More action creepin' in ???? #122746
05/15/03 07:57 PM
05/15/03 07:57 PM
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 77
Norton, Ohio, USA
D
dougmillsap Offline
Shy Boomer
dougmillsap  Offline
Shy Boomer
D

Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 77
Norton, Ohio, USA
I think action games are great fun. But I do not enjoy action in adventure games. I think I finally understand the reason why…and, hey wait a minute, Jonathan just stole my answer! I completely agree with what he said. In an action game, the action is fine-tuned to be fun and intuitive and challenging and feel good. In an adventure game, action sequences usually feel clunky and uncomfortable and annoying and unfun and out-of-place.


Doug M

Currently playing: Deus Ex; Bioscopia

Most recently completed: Creature Crunch; Guilty
Re: More action creepin' in ???? #122747
05/15/03 08:08 PM
05/15/03 08:08 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 183
Sweden
D
dimidimidimi Offline
Settled Boomer
dimidimidimi  Offline
Settled Boomer
D

Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 183
Sweden
Quite simply....stop caring about those games. There are so many other pure adventures coming up that you don't need any of the action/adventure ones.


Adventure magazine - The Inventory
www.theinventory.org
Re: More action creepin' in ???? #122748
05/15/03 08:24 PM
05/15/03 08:24 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 623
Saxton
JonathanBoakes Offline
Settled Boomer
JonathanBoakes  Offline
Settled Boomer

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 623
Saxton
Sorry Doug! Didn't mean to nick your post!

I am enjoying No One Lives forever 2 (lovely, lovely) as much as I am enjoying The Sydney Mystery. Each has it's own enjoyment factor. Long live diversity, and free thinking.


The ghosts are waiting, in the dark places, the forgotten places. Waiting for you: Darkling Room Games
Re: More action creepin' in ???? #122749
05/15/03 09:25 PM
05/15/03 09:25 PM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,679
Toronto
Singer Offline
Addicted Boomer
Singer  Offline
Addicted Boomer

Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,679
Toronto
There's a big difference between "action" and "combat", but it looks like the two get merged in people's minds.

Seems to me that a game like GK2 had "action" in it, but that game doesn't get painted with the same brush as the new games. Sam and Max's Whack a Rat was an "action" (or even worse - arcade!) sequence, but hardly the downfall of that game.

In a fully 3D game, even WALKING would be considered an "action", since the direct control over the character would be so much more involved than merely click 'n wait. And obviously more interactive functions would increase the "action" level even more. Some of this is just genre labeling, anyway. If Real Myst had a 3rd person character, IT would be called an action/adventure.

On another thread, Steve Ince (from Revolution) stressed that Broken Sword 3 would NOT have combat in it, and yet still it's assumed that it will be a shockingly intense action game?

I'm genuinely not understanding why the very mention of the word action is causing so many people to get nervous. True, it hasn't traditionally been done well, but that doesn't mean it CAN'T be. And if I had to pin my hopes on any companies getting it right, I'd say LucasArts, Revolution, and Funcom have earned the benefit of the doubt.

Am I off base here?

Jack


Co-founder, editor-in-chief of the Adventure Game Hotspot
Re: More action creepin' in ???? #122750
05/15/03 10:36 PM
05/15/03 10:36 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 34,287
United Kingdom
Mad Offline OP
Sonic Boomer
Mad  Offline OP
Sonic Boomer

Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 34,287
United Kingdom
Hi again smile

Maybe I'M the one that's off base Jack lol

Cheers.

Mad wave


Time : The Most Precious Commodity
Re: More action creepin' in ???? #122751
05/15/03 10:44 PM
05/15/03 10:44 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 40,644
southeast USA
Jenny100 Offline
GB Reviewer Glitches Moderator
Jenny100  Offline
GB Reviewer Glitches Moderator
Sonic Boomer

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 40,644
southeast USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Singer:


I'm genuinely not understanding why the very mention of the word action is causing so many people to get nervous.
It's because of outstandingly bad experiences in the past.

People who enjoy adventure games tend to want to relax with them. It isn't always a matter of not being able to do the action and having to get a saved game from someone else to get past it, though there can be that problem too.

I think all the Gabriel Knight games had timed sequences - not a whole lot of them, but enough to aggravate a significant number of gamers and prevent some of them from being able to complete the game.
Maybe we should distinguish between different types of action sequences. Timed sequences find themselves into adventure games all too often. Other types of action sequences, which might involve jumping, climbing, shooting, or hacking are found in action and action/adventures.

The thing about action and action/adventure games is that they usually have cheats to help you if you can't do the action. And that isn't true for the timed sequences in adventure games.

Re: More action creepin' in ???? #122752
05/15/03 10:48 PM
05/15/03 10:48 PM
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 10,323
gatorlaw Offline
Adept Boomer
gatorlaw  Offline
Adept Boomer

Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 10,323
I think I would agree that it wouldn't hurt to wait and at least see what they mean by "action" before assuming the worst. I also see a big difference between physical puzzles vs combat or arcade challenges.

To me climbing up a downspout, squashing the spider with the book shelf or when Nico has to get the bad guy on the boat before she gets offed: are all action or physical puzzles. But they aren't action like in standard shooters or action games. For one - there isn't any twitch factor. You just have to click on the right choice.

I think I am more concerned with what is meant by point and click games are dead. Keyboards have more options which usually mean more fast response type puzzles. It also is a more awkward interface as you have to hit multiple buttons to do one thing. Action to move and then whatever key means use, pick up etc.

That seems (if true) to be a definite shift in what was originally said was planned for the game.

But I have to have some faith in the developers sense. If TLJ2 is changed so much that adventure gamers wouldn't buy it - I doubt it alternatively be action enough to become the next Grand Theft Auto. I just can't see that being their intent anyway. Too much two way dialogue maintained with the adventure gaming community for me to think that. It is after all just one interview. There are many prior interviews and communications that have pointed in a different direction.

Laura





Re: More action creepin' in ???? #122753
05/16/03 06:49 AM
05/16/03 06:49 AM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,468
Cambridge, England
Kickaha Offline
Addicted Boomer
Kickaha  Offline
Addicted Boomer

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,468
Cambridge, England
Singer is quite right to say that action and combat are two different things. Having got to grips with "Baldur's Gate" I don't mind combat - it's action and reflexes I have problems with.

I can see the virtues of keyboard control for a first person game (though I prefer a mouse.) For a third person game keyboard doesn't work at all for me.

Point and click is far from dead in many genres but bizarrely adventure games seem to be being compared with shooters which they're not closest to, either in game style or in who plays them.

Thank goodness for the independents like Jonathan! Good dollops of imagination are what we need!

Regards, Peter.


Used to answer to "Peter Smith", now answers to "Peter Rootham-Smith"
Re: More action creepin' in ???? #122754
05/16/03 07:16 AM
05/16/03 07:16 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 68
York
S
Steve Ince (at work) Offline
Shy Boomer
Steve Ince (at work)  Offline
Shy Boomer
S

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 68
York
Quote:
Originally posted by gatorlaw:
To me climbing up a downspout, squashing the spider with the book shelf or when Nico has to get the bad guy on the boat before she gets offed: are all action or physical puzzles. But they aren't action like in standard shooters or action games. For one - there isn't any twitch factor. You just have to click on the right choice.
Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant!
Nail well and truly hit on head. This is EXACTLY what we've been saying all along and the way we have approached any action in the game - it's simply a puzzle you have to work out the solution to.

Quote:
I think I am more concerned with what is meant by point and click games are dead.
For us it's the fact that point-and-click is very passive. You click on something and then wait for the character to walk across the screen and then do the action. With a change to direct control the gameplay is much more active and the connectivity with the character is stronger.

When we developed BS1 for the GameBoy Advance, we were very surprised by how exciting the game felt and how much more immediate the play was. Yet it still retained everything that made it Broken Sword. In many ways, the GBA BS1 was the prototype for BS-TSD and certainly in its principles it is very close to having the same feel.


Steve Ince
Re: More action creepin' in ???? #122755
05/16/03 07:34 AM
05/16/03 07:34 AM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,516
North aurora IL
burpee Offline
Addicted Boomer
burpee  Offline
Addicted Boomer

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,516
North aurora IL
I have always considered "action/adventure" (not combat) my favorite type of game and "point and click" second. I don't have issues with the keyboard but my GBer friends who know Arthur Itis well, may very well have problems. Fast reflexes with fingers that are hurting makes some games unplayable for a large part of the population.

My fingers are getting stiff lately and some day "point and click" will be my favorite type of game. If I get to be 90 and there's no Dark Fall XV or BS 16 to play, I'm going to be very upset. Keep 'em coming and I'll add my Bravos to the Indies as well bravo

Re: More action creepin' in ???? #122756
05/16/03 08:24 AM
05/16/03 08:24 AM
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 5,107
New Orleans, LA. USA
nolalou Offline
BAAG Specialist
nolalou  Offline
BAAG Specialist

Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 5,107
New Orleans, LA. USA
Speaking of "Action/Adventure" , I read that the new "Full Throttle" will be 50/50 action & adventure. It will feature fight scenes that were compared to the ones in the new Indiana Jones game.

I think the reason some Adventure gamers worry about 'action' sequences in adventure games is not only that these parts are not well done, but that we don't like to play them. If it's a timed puzzle or something you can use logic and think your way out of, that's one thing, but if you just need fast reflexes, that's quite another.

As for 'direct control' of characters as opposed to 'point & click', I assume this means controls like we saw in games like "Grim Fandango", or "Largo Winch". That is, mainly keyboard controlled like in some action games. I don't have a particular problem with this, but I do tend to run my character into walls sometimes, and I know lots of gamers just don't care for it. I must say, I don't see it as any great improvment over "Point & Click", and it may well add to the frustration factor.

Louis

Re: More action creepin' in ???? #122757
05/16/03 08:45 AM
05/16/03 08:45 AM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,679
Toronto
Singer Offline
Addicted Boomer
Singer  Offline
Addicted Boomer

Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,679
Toronto
I disagree that the dread of "action" in games is based primarily on bad personal experiences. That's why I asked. It seems to me that the whole issue has taken on a life of its own; a kind of mass hysteria. lol

I understand that SOME action sequences may have caused people grief in past games, but then so have sliders, mazes, obtuse puzzles, etc. But the prevailing attitude towards THOSE is that it's an accepted part of the game, and there's always help if needed.

But I think the notion of action derails that same train of thought, and jumps into a different mindset of action = combat = twitch factor = blood pressure rising = I won't be able to do it = I won't like this game. That's a LOT of leaps!!

Of course I'm not unsympathetic to people with arthritis, but my own experiences from playing keyboard/mouse combined games is that it's my MOUSE hand that gets cramped!! eek eek

And Peter, the better third person action games use a similar setup to the first person games now. Anyone who has played American McGee's Alice (for example) will vouch for its silky smooth controls, so it's possible to do it right.

Jack


Co-founder, editor-in-chief of the Adventure Game Hotspot
Re: More action creepin' in ???? #122758
05/16/03 10:24 AM
05/16/03 10:24 AM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 34,287
United Kingdom
Mad Offline OP
Sonic Boomer
Mad  Offline OP
Sonic Boomer

Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 34,287
United Kingdom
Hi again smile

Scrolling through these posts I find that Laura has succinctly put what I was struggling to say lol ...........

"To me climbing up a downspout, squashing the spider with the book shelf or when Nico has to get the bad guy on the boat before she gets offed: are all action or physical puzzles. But they aren't action like in standard shooters or action games. For one - there isn't any TWITCH factor. You just have to click on the right choice."

That was the word I needed...."TWITCH" !! wave


Time : The Most Precious Commodity
Re: More action creepin' in ???? #122759
05/16/03 10:55 AM
05/16/03 10:55 AM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,468
Cambridge, England
Kickaha Offline
Addicted Boomer
Kickaha  Offline
Addicted Boomer

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,468
Cambridge, England
The twitch factor is one issue that would deter me from playing a game - my reflexes are not up to those of a teenager. I don't think that's an issue for BS3 or TLJ2.

The problem I'm likely to have with games which use keyboard or joystick controls is just that I find them hard to use. I don't need another "Grim Fandango" experience. Some get on with keyboard controls, some don't. This isn't a question of mass hysteria, just personal experience.

I like to play games where I'm concentrating on the story and puzzles not trying painfully to maneouvre around.

Regards, Peter.


Used to answer to "Peter Smith", now answers to "Peter Rootham-Smith"
Re: More action creepin' in ???? #122760
05/16/03 11:02 AM
05/16/03 11:02 AM

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A



Well, I must put my two cents worth in here.
Dear Steve Ince(at work), using a point and click interface may be too passive for you, but for those of us who can't manage the keyboard for one reason or another, you are locking us out of the adventure game experience altogether!
I have had to return several Dreamcatcher/Adventure games because they had no indication, either on the game-box/jc or on the web site or in reviews that the interface was keyboard only, or had several keyboard features.
You young healthy people seem to thing that you are the only ones playing games out there. Well you are wrong. There are people who have had strokes and can only use one hand, or have some sort of physical problem that makes the keyboard very difficult to use. We especially need these games to make life more enjoyable. I really hate that this new thinking may jeopardize our ability to have the one challenge that we can enjoy.

Re: More action creepin' in ???? #122761
05/16/03 11:19 AM
05/16/03 11:19 AM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,679
Toronto
Singer Offline
Addicted Boomer
Singer  Offline
Addicted Boomer

Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,679
Toronto
Grim Fandango had a terrible control system (though I thought the game itself was excellent). And so did the Tomb Raiders and countless other games, adventures and action and RPG alike.

But there ARE good ones, and plenty of room for improvement, which is why I hope people won't assume that EVERY keyboard/mouse game will control horribly, or that every action sequence will be unmanageable. Sometimes it may not seem that way, but surely developers are learning.

I'm certainly not singling anyone out here, or saying that anyone is overreacting to their OWN experiences. But I've certainly seen examples where people are willing to dismiss games out of hand, simply from knowing nothing more than that a game has "action" in it. I'd hate to see BS3 or TLJ2 or the LucasArts sequels be pre-judged before they've had a chance to shine.

Jack


Co-founder, editor-in-chief of the Adventure Game Hotspot
Re: More action creepin' in ???? #122762
05/16/03 11:37 AM
05/16/03 11:37 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 68
York
S
Steve Ince (at work) Offline
Shy Boomer
Steve Ince (at work)  Offline
Shy Boomer
S

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 68
York
Hi FlowerPower,
I must admit to never having contemplated your quite serious issue. There will be a certain amount of customisability of the interface on the PC, but because there are some timing puzzles and areas where you may have to sneak around I'm not sure whether this wil be enough to make the game playable for you. I'm sorry that the move away from point-and-click will be detrimental to your enjoyment of what we believe is our best game to date.


Steve Ince
Re: More action creepin' in ???? #122763
05/16/03 11:52 AM
05/16/03 11:52 AM

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A



smile It is not just your company Steve, but the whole industry is starting to think the PC is a poor cousin, and are primarily writing for the box, and porting to the PC. I realize that with some games, use of the keyboard does make the movement more controllable, but please don't forget us entirely. We are customers too, and we buy a lot of games. The adventure game genre is one of the ways that we have discovered to make life a little more bearable. Sometimes, for us, it is the only way we can have any real challenge.
thumbsup

Re: More action creepin' in ???? #122764
05/16/03 11:52 AM
05/16/03 11:52 AM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,453
Texas
nickie Offline
Grand wizard of high mucky muck
nickie  Offline
Grand wizard of high mucky muck
Adept Boomer

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,453
Texas
Probably irrelevant to some degree, but just my thoughts - point and click can be used wonderfully well in action type games as well, Divine Divinity being an excellent example. Some people equate action with keyboard maneuvering, and there are many games that are horribly clunky in this regard, so their trepidation is well justified. I agree with Gatorlaw when she said that she is more concerned with the statement "point and click" is dead.


"How could drops of water know themselves to be a river? Yet the river flows on."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Re: More action creepin' in ???? #122765
05/16/03 12:24 PM
05/16/03 12:24 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,565
Pennsylvania, USA (left my bel...
mszv Offline
Addicted Boomer
mszv  Offline
Addicted Boomer

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,565
Pennsylvania, USA (left my bel...
Well, I'm 51, my reflexes are terrible, and I'm going to give these games with keyboard control and a "little bit of action" a shot (oh, bad pun).

Along with the passive nature of point and click (which I like), and a static, slow game (which I also like) can't we have something else too? I'd like an adventure game where something more is happening on the screen, and my experience is a bit more, well, immersive and not so passive. They do call them "adventure games", after all. I'm not talking fast reflexes and shooting, but I'm willing to go with a slightly different format, and a different interface. I'm an adventure gamer too, just like the rest of you, and I'm fast getting into my "older years" (and remember, I've got reflexes about the speed and skill of a drunk tortoise, and that's probably unkind to the tortoise). Let's see what these new adventure games have to offer. I also want some adventure games with 3D engines and full range of movement. Bring it on.

Look, I'm not trivializing anyone's mobility impairments, but I think there can be room in the adventure game genre for more than one interface. I really want to have some different adventure game experiences. Depending on the interface, and, of course, one's mobility, I don't think keyboard control is bad. You know, for repetitive stress injuries, the mouse is more the cause of them then the keyboard (though a big mouse is better than a little one).

Personally, even a mouse interface is too much for me, sometimes. I'd like to wave my hand in front of the screen, and have something happen. That's for later, I think. Wait, doesn't the new Sony handheld game device (still in development) have an attached camera that does something like that? Adventure game developers, are you listening? Do that!

All for now.


mszv, amarez in Myst Online (KI 89257)and my online worlds.

blog - http://www.amarez.com, Twitter - http://www.twitter.com/amareze
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 181 guests, and 0 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Staff, Mod
Newest Members
PierreLombardo, Dux, WillPowerGoat, Ebalon, J7769mon
9388 Registered Users
Powered by UBB.threads™