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#122741 - 05/15/03 04:45 PM More action creepin' in ????
Mad Online   content
True Blue Boomer

Registered: 11/21/00
Posts: 23425
Loc: United Kingdom
Hi.

Just saw on the adventure news group that the new TLJ is going to be an "action/adventure" frown frown

The subscriber there gleaned this information from an interview (unfortunately not in English) from this link :



QUOTE.....
While visiting JustAdventure's forums, I found a link to an interview
(in Norwegian) http://www.vg.no/pub/vgart.hbs?artid=59612 with Ragnar
T


Edited by looney4labs (06/26/07 11:14 AM)
Edit Reason: remove broken link
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#122742 - 05/15/03 06:30 PM Re: More action creepin' in ????
fov Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 12/28/01
Posts: 2964
Loc: San Francisco
i saw this discussed at adventuregamers. i thought it was a joke at first.

not pleased. i wasn't on the edge of my seat waiting for TLJ2... but i wouldn't have minded another game of the same caliber.

i hope they find some way to make it work. april ryan as lara croft, anyone?

-emily

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#122743 - 05/15/03 06:36 PM Re: More action creepin' in ????
JonathanBoakes Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 10/14/13
Posts: 623
Loc: Saxton
Looks like we should start oiling our pistols...

Shame really.
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#122744 - 05/15/03 06:43 PM Re: More action creepin' in ????
Witchen Offline
True Blue Boomer

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 22381
Loc: Seattle Washington USA
I think you're probably right, Jonathan, but we won't have to worry about combat in Dark Fall II....that's for darn sure, right? I, for one, appreciate that. Jumping out of my skin is quite enuff' action for me, thank you veddy much! LOL

Love, Witchen =O)

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#122745 - 05/15/03 07:25 PM Re: More action creepin' in ????
JonathanBoakes Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 10/14/13
Posts: 623
Loc: Saxton
I love a good action game like the next trigger happy pacifist (currently playing UT'03 fan made levels) but action/adventure doesn't tend to mix too well. The action game developers seem to be much better at including puzzle elements than the adventure developers seem to be at including action elements. It's either "walk the dodgy 3D boards" or "dodge the 3D bullets".... it's only included to extend the game play, and frustrate the player.

No "action" in DFII. But you might need your reading glasses, and a good dollop of imagination.
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#122746 - 05/15/03 07:57 PM Re: More action creepin' in ????
dougmillsap Offline
Shy Boomer

Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 77
Loc: Norton, Ohio, USA
I think action games are great fun. But I do not enjoy action in adventure games. I think I finally understand the reason why…and, hey wait a minute, Jonathan just stole my answer! I completely agree with what he said. In an action game, the action is fine-tuned to be fun and intuitive and challenging and feel good. In an adventure game, action sequences usually feel clunky and uncomfortable and annoying and unfun and out-of-place.
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Currently playing: Deus Ex; Bioscopia

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#122747 - 05/15/03 08:08 PM Re: More action creepin' in ????
dimidimidimi Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 10/18/02
Posts: 183
Loc: Sweden
Quite simply....stop caring about those games. There are so many other pure adventures coming up that you don't need any of the action/adventure ones.
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#122748 - 05/15/03 08:24 PM Re: More action creepin' in ????
JonathanBoakes Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 10/14/13
Posts: 623
Loc: Saxton
Sorry Doug! Didn't mean to nick your post!

I am enjoying No One Lives forever 2 (lovely, lovely) as much as I am enjoying The Sydney Mystery. Each has it's own enjoyment factor. Long live diversity, and free thinking.
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#122749 - 05/15/03 09:25 PM Re: More action creepin' in ????
Singer Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 09/04/01
Posts: 2521
There's a big difference between "action" and "combat", but it looks like the two get merged in people's minds.

Seems to me that a game like GK2 had "action" in it, but that game doesn't get painted with the same brush as the new games. Sam and Max's Whack a Rat was an "action" (or even worse - arcade!) sequence, but hardly the downfall of that game.

In a fully 3D game, even WALKING would be considered an "action", since the direct control over the character would be so much more involved than merely click 'n wait. And obviously more interactive functions would increase the "action" level even more. Some of this is just genre labeling, anyway. If Real Myst had a 3rd person character, IT would be called an action/adventure.

On another thread, Steve Ince (from Revolution) stressed that Broken Sword 3 would NOT have combat in it, and yet still it's assumed that it will be a shockingly intense action game?

I'm genuinely not understanding why the very mention of the word action is causing so many people to get nervous. True, it hasn't traditionally been done well, but that doesn't mean it CAN'T be. And if I had to pin my hopes on any companies getting it right, I'd say LucasArts, Revolution, and Funcom have earned the benefit of the doubt.

Am I off base here?

Jack
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#122750 - 05/15/03 10:36 PM Re: More action creepin' in ????
Mad Online   content
True Blue Boomer

Registered: 11/21/00
Posts: 23425
Loc: United Kingdom
Hi again smile

Maybe I'M the one that's off base Jack lol

Cheers.

Mad wave
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#122751 - 05/15/03 10:44 PM Re: More action creepin' in ????
Jenny100 Offline
GB Reviewer Glitches Moderator
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 10/24/00
Posts: 35380
Loc: southeast USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Singer:


I'm genuinely not understanding why the very mention of the word action is causing so many people to get nervous.
It's because of outstandingly bad experiences in the past.

People who enjoy adventure games tend to want to relax with them. It isn't always a matter of not being able to do the action and having to get a saved game from someone else to get past it, though there can be that problem too.

I think all the Gabriel Knight games had timed sequences - not a whole lot of them, but enough to aggravate a significant number of gamers and prevent some of them from being able to complete the game.
Maybe we should distinguish between different types of action sequences. Timed sequences find themselves into adventure games all too often. Other types of action sequences, which might involve jumping, climbing, shooting, or hacking are found in action and action/adventures.

The thing about action and action/adventure games is that they usually have cheats to help you if you can't do the action. And that isn't true for the timed sequences in adventure games.

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#122752 - 05/15/03 10:48 PM Re: More action creepin' in ????
gatorlaw Offline
Adept Boomer

Registered: 11/01/99
Posts: 10312
I think I would agree that it wouldn't hurt to wait and at least see what they mean by "action" before assuming the worst. I also see a big difference between physical puzzles vs combat or arcade challenges.

To me climbing up a downspout, squashing the spider with the book shelf or when Nico has to get the bad guy on the boat before she gets offed: are all action or physical puzzles. But they aren't action like in standard shooters or action games. For one - there isn't any twitch factor. You just have to click on the right choice.

I think I am more concerned with what is meant by point and click games are dead. Keyboards have more options which usually mean more fast response type puzzles. It also is a more awkward interface as you have to hit multiple buttons to do one thing. Action to move and then whatever key means use, pick up etc.

That seems (if true) to be a definite shift in what was originally said was planned for the game.

But I have to have some faith in the developers sense. If TLJ2 is changed so much that adventure gamers wouldn't buy it - I doubt it alternatively be action enough to become the next Grand Theft Auto. I just can't see that being their intent anyway. Too much two way dialogue maintained with the adventure gaming community for me to think that. It is after all just one interview. There are many prior interviews and communications that have pointed in a different direction.

Laura
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#122753 - 05/16/03 06:49 AM Re: More action creepin' in ????
Kickaha Offline
GB Special Events Reporter
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 03/27/01
Posts: 2431
Loc: Cambridge, England
Singer is quite right to say that action and combat are two different things. Having got to grips with "Baldur's Gate" I don't mind combat - it's action and reflexes I have problems with.

I can see the virtues of keyboard control for a first person game (though I prefer a mouse.) For a third person game keyboard doesn't work at all for me.

Point and click is far from dead in many genres but bizarrely adventure games seem to be being compared with shooters which they're not closest to, either in game style or in who plays them.

Thank goodness for the independents like Jonathan! Good dollops of imagination are what we need!

Regards, Peter.
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#122754 - 05/16/03 07:16 AM Re: More action creepin' in ????
Steve Ince (at work) Offline
Shy Boomer

Registered: 05/12/03
Posts: 68
Loc: York
Quote:
Originally posted by gatorlaw:
To me climbing up a downspout, squashing the spider with the book shelf or when Nico has to get the bad guy on the boat before she gets offed: are all action or physical puzzles. But they aren't action like in standard shooters or action games. For one - there isn't any twitch factor. You just have to click on the right choice.
Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant!
Nail well and truly hit on head. This is EXACTLY what we've been saying all along and the way we have approached any action in the game - it's simply a puzzle you have to work out the solution to.

Quote:
I think I am more concerned with what is meant by point and click games are dead.
For us it's the fact that point-and-click is very passive. You click on something and then wait for the character to walk across the screen and then do the action. With a change to direct control the gameplay is much more active and the connectivity with the character is stronger.

When we developed BS1 for the GameBoy Advance, we were very surprised by how exciting the game felt and how much more immediate the play was. Yet it still retained everything that made it Broken Sword. In many ways, the GBA BS1 was the prototype for BS-TSD and certainly in its principles it is very close to having the same feel.
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#122755 - 05/16/03 07:34 AM Re: More action creepin' in ????
burpee Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 12/14/00
Posts: 4516
Loc: North aurora IL
I have always considered "action/adventure" (not combat) my favorite type of game and "point and click" second. I don't have issues with the keyboard but my GBer friends who know Arthur Itis well, may very well have problems. Fast reflexes with fingers that are hurting makes some games unplayable for a large part of the population.

My fingers are getting stiff lately and some day "point and click" will be my favorite type of game. If I get to be 90 and there's no Dark Fall XV or BS 16 to play, I'm going to be very upset. Keep 'em coming and I'll add my Bravos to the Indies as well bravo

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