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#123351 - 06/27/03 02:05 PM Ray Ivey's Shut-up article...
friedmonky Offline
Adept Boomer

Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 10663
Loc: Massachusetts
Have you people read this yet? It is great!
http://www.justadventure.com/articles/Shut_Up!/shutup.shtm
Rusty

P.S. - I want Ray to be the US's next President! thumbsup
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#123352 - 06/27/03 03:05 PM Re: Ray Ivey's Shut-up article...
gatorlaw Offline
Adept Boomer

Registered: 11/01/99
Posts: 10323
bravo Ray bravo

Tough love is difficult to give - but these things needed to be said. You need an eye opener, go look at Action/console forums. They aren't anywhere as particular or critical of their games. Surprising, since new console games run 50.00 on average and stay pricy for quite a while.. Your column struck such a chord with me.

I also am mentally exhausted at times when people getting crazy mad about games before they are even released. It might be terrible - it might be amazing. Who knows til it is finalized and out for play. Now I am a huge believer in demos - so people can decide whether they want this or that game. But, nothing out there exists that will please everyone. So buy what you like - avoid games with the things that you hate, be they sliders, keyboard controls whatever. I don't get the need to attack others for liking what you don't, insisting that anyone who likes this game or that (which you hated) must be an idiot. There is not much of that type of posting here - but it rears it's ugly head every once in a while.

I have seen people in forums even blast a game that they downloaded as freeware. I could be wrong, but that seems to be the epitome of unrealistic expectations. It gets a bit bizarre at times. frown

Laura
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#123353 - 06/27/03 03:51 PM Re: Ray Ivey's Shut-up article...
friedmonky Offline
Adept Boomer

Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 10663
Loc: Massachusetts
Very well said Laura thumbsup
Rusty
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#123354 - 06/27/03 05:10 PM Re: Ray Ivey's Shut-up article...
burpee Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 12/14/00
Posts: 4516
Loc: North aurora IL
Thanks for the great link Rusty. I always enjoy reading Ray's opinion. (I'll have to watch my apostrophes from now on smile )

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#123355 - 06/27/03 05:34 PM Re: Ray Ivey's Shut-up article...
Magician Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 735
Loc: Sydney, Australia
hrmn... moving from 1 place to another without being seen..? Well, I guess that's adventure - unless the timing has to be exact to the millisecond or else you will die a horrible death - then I usually consider those more action oriented... wink

But other than that, I guess I pretty much agree with Ray's definition - if only the publishers and the store assistants agree with Ray's definition too (sorry for being slightly ignorant, but is Ray male or female?)

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#123356 - 06/27/03 06:17 PM Re: Ray Ivey's Shut-up article...
ray Offline
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Registered: 05/29/99
Posts: 4553
Loc: Los Angeles
Magician, that's a question the great minds of our time have been struggling with for almost 44 years now.
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#123357 - 06/27/03 07:38 PM Re: Ray Ivey's Shut-up article...
friedmonky Offline
Adept Boomer

Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 10663
Loc: Massachusetts
LOL!!! lol lol Good one Ray! I can't stop laughing now...
Rusty
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#123358 - 06/27/03 07:48 PM Re: Ray Ivey's Shut-up article...
oldman Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 04/15/00
Posts: 3779
Loc: Lost in the Arizona Desert
Excellent article and a lot of things I've been thinking myself but not eloquent enough to voice. I might also point out that when I first started playing adventure games, (KQ 1 & 2 era) all games were keyboard driven and mouse driven games were pretty clumsy and still had keyboard control. How far we've progressed.
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#123359 - 06/27/03 07:59 PM Re: Ray Ivey's Shut-up article...
MrNO Offline
Shy Boomer

Registered: 04/14/00
Posts: 33
Loc: LONDON - UK
Great article !! bravo

– combative , reactive and very "free-flowing' / it pulled no punches with the language it used, it was viperous and it was great ! - but are you even American ? - to my mind, the "typical' American adventure gamer seems to be the gentlest of souls, and I find that really sweet, at least that is the impression I get from gameboomers, its all so friendly and nice. It is the kind of place where words like "heck or darn' float about because its so polite ( and I love it for that, its rare and friendly – and that's just fine ! ) – but it just goes to show that's really not true accress the board as far as all 'adventure gamers', and I really had no idea about how bad it can get !, judging by the letter you guys received . Now here is my point ( or at least what I would personally do . . . )

In such a vitriolic case, why do you not just completely IGNORE such a letter. Its such a juvenile, ignorant, zeno/homophobic, redundant piece of smoke ( only less consistent ) and such an obviously "primary school level' attempt at basic communication – just like FOX NEWS, its best to smile and switch the channel to something elese – ANYTHING !!! - "heck' even QVC is better by comparison, or in your case, immediately after reading the letter, delete or hurl it in the recycle bin ( and after you wash your hands, you move on ) – airing it just gives it oxygen - however much I liked your justified reply.


wink

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#123360 - 06/28/03 01:14 AM Re: Ray Ivey's Shut-up article...
Bryansmom Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 02/18/02
Posts: 1522
Loc: Indiana
I really do agree with a lot of what Ray has said in this article. I would also like to say, at the risk of sounding paranoid, that Mr. Gaston's letter sounded a lot like a person doing a sarcastic impression of a "pure adventure gamer," perhaps trying to elicit the type of reaction Ray had to the letter. If Mr. Gaston isn't doing a send up of an adventure gamer, I can only say, "Thank God for Gameboomers!"
I usually agree with a lot of the things Ray says in his reviews of adventure games, so I'm not surprised that I agree with a lot of the things he said in the article. I grew up with adventure games, starting with the Sierra games that always included a bit of archery, sneaking about, running away from zombies and risk of dying. Therefore, I've always included games that include that sort of action in the adventure game category. That doesn't mean that games that include certain types of action are among my favorite types of adventure games; but then, games that include mazes and lever puzzles aren't my favorites either, and they are certainly adventure games. It all boils down to the fact that I tend not to notice action elements if they don't keep me from finishing the game because of difficulty and if the story is good enough to make them worthwhile. Thankfully, we have walkthroughs to help us through things like the dart board in The Rose Tattoo, so they aren't so much of a problem anymore, as they were in the days of calling the Sierra Hint Line, going through their voice mail tree at about 98 cents a minute and then finally figuring out that the character needs to aim for the head instead of the heart, etc.
I really am excited that the adventure game seems to be gaining a second wind, with a few good companies realizing that they have something to offer and that there is an audience for them with disposable income. I think it's a shame to dampen any sort of creative energy our new game designers try to exhibit, especially when the game hasn't even come out yet, or is freeware! I'm certainly willing to fight my way through a few battles or chase scenes if it means that I can play a sequel to The Longest Journey or games of that caliber.
Happy gaming,
Beth
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#123361 - 06/28/03 01:51 AM Re: Ray Ivey's Shut-up article...
Advpuzlov Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 06/05/99
Posts: 2027
Loc: USA
MRNO, I think that the letters RAY receives are not from members of GameBoomers. I can readily understand that when you get enough of such letters as RAY refers to, the hair-tearing state can be reached and all the annoyances and irritations that have built up can be relieved only by a good healthy vent. mad

His definition of Adventure games is sufficiently broad to handle all of the games that I have enjoyed.
Quote:
ADVENTURE GAME: A computer/video game wherein the gameplay is a mixture of story, exploration and puzzle solving (in almost ANY ratio of the three), WITHOUT containing SIGNIFICANT combat elements.
Now it may also include games that I wouldn't care for, but that doesn't bother me.

I happen to dislike keyboard-controlled games since I generally take notes and have my notebook in front of me and my keyboard off to the side. Note-taking is not easy when there are timed puzzles or action bits, but if unlimited saving is possible, I can live with it. I imagine that a keyboard-controlled game could at least be adapted to a joystick or keypad or some modification of a "mouse" sufficiently small that I could have my "notebook" in front of me in easy writing position. If so, then I could probably adapt.

Also, there can be action which isn't timed. No problem. That's just like a puzzle. As far as technical improvements, such as 3D, well, I called them "improvements" and that's what I consider them to be. Such technical changes aren't necessary for me to enjoy an Adventure game, but they do add to it. How about voice-controlled action? I'm really waiting until they get some REAL improvements, say virtual action helmets. Yah! laugh laugh laugh
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#123362 - 06/28/03 10:48 AM Re: Ray Ivey's Shut-up article...
Diamond Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 09/11/02
Posts: 541
Loc: Yorkshire
Quote:
Originally posted by ray:
Magician, that's a question the great minds of our time have been struggling with for almost 44 years now.
Hey, you're pretty much my contemporary. laugh
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Steve Ince, Writer-Designer
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#123363 - 06/28/03 10:50 AM Re: Ray Ivey's Shut-up article...
syd Offline
Adept Boomer

Registered: 11/12/99
Posts: 12307
Loc: Body in California/Heart in Ha...
Ah Ray, you've outdone yourself this time lol Great article and unfortunately all too true. We adventure gamers do seem to whine more than most, don't we? But it seems to have always been that way - when adventure games first came out they were text based and keyboard controlled. Then Sierra (I think they were the first) had the nerve to make a game that used action icons and something called a mouse! I remember the hue and cry about how that stupid mouse was going to ruin the genre and why can't we go back to using a keyboard and typing in commands like we used to rolleyes

It appears to me that what we are seeing is a return to our roots and if you doubt me - play the first four King's Quest games (it was KQV that introduced that nasty, wicked, genre ruining mouse wink ) Then come back and scream about action and keyboard usage in the new games - especially after you've tried to climb a certain whale's tongue for the 50th time lol
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#123364 - 06/28/03 11:03 AM Re: Ray Ivey's Shut-up article...
Diamond Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 09/11/02
Posts: 541
Loc: Yorkshire
Quote:
Originally posted by Advpuzlov:
Now it may also include games that I wouldn't care for, but that doesn't bother me.
This actually got me thinking.

I read a fair bit of fantasy and absolutely loved Lord of the Rings when I first read it 30 years ago. This doesn't mean that I want every fantasy novel I read to be like LOTR. There are fantasy novels I've hated and haven't even finished and ones that really push the boundaries of the genre (like Perdido Street Station by China Mieville which I love). But I never for one minute question whether they should be allowed into the genre. I might be baffled why publishers take up weak novels, but that will be as far as I take it.

Why are adventure games so different?
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Steve

Steve Ince, Writer-Designer
Steve on Twitter

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#123365 - 06/28/03 12:00 PM Re: Ray Ivey's Shut-up article...
Jenny100 Offline
GB Reviewer Glitches Moderator
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 10/24/00
Posts: 39195
Loc: southeast USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Bryansmom:
I would also like to say, at the risk of sounding paranoid, that Mr. Gaston's letter sounded a lot like a person doing a sarcastic impression of a "pure adventure gamer," perhaps trying to elicit the type of reaction Ray had to the letter.
I wondered about that myself.

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