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#124069 - 11/04/02 09:11 AM Re: When did we as gamers get dumber?
Kathy Salisbury Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 121
Loc: USA
Quote:
Originally posted by acornia:
Cats with a quiet and thoughtful nature? Must have trained yours.
laugh Actually, I meant the programmers had a quiet, thoughtful nature, so like cats better. Most of the time cats are quieter than dogs, at least the ones I know. wink

Quote:
As for games, think that adventure games are trying to appeal to a bigger range of age groups and not just to ones that like puzzles. Puzzles that the whole family can solve. Nancy Drew with it's junior and senior levels.
Must admit I haven't tried the Nancy Drew mysteries yet. I thought they were more for kids, but I can see they are very popular here. Interesting information about the levels. smile
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Pharos Games
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#124070 - 11/04/02 09:16 AM Re: When did we as gamers get dumber?
syd Offline
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Registered: 11/12/99
Posts: 12306
Loc: Body in California/Heart in Ha...
Hi Kathy

Nancy Drew is definitely not just for kids - I found that out really fast with the first game lol. Figured ha - game made for 10 year old girls - I'll play senior detective since I'm so old and "smart". About a quarter of the way through I was wishing I'd have picked junior detective lol They are really terrific games.
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#124071 - 11/04/02 10:48 AM Re: When did we as gamers get dumber?
Liz Offline
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Registered: 10/13/00
Posts: 2446
Loc: the desert foothills
It's very true that we all have our own likes and dislikes when it comes to adventuring gaming. Tho most of us agree that timed puzzles are the worst......

I have 3 cats and think, Kathy, that they're a great idea!! As are mad scientists of course! That goes without saying! The madder the better!!! Sounds very intriguing!

Mad, i'm with you........i can replay and replay some of my old games and STILL get stuck in the same old spots........ lol

.......and i must say, that i've never met an adventure game that i haven't needed a walkthrough for......at least in some spots. Says something about my intelligence i guess........ <img border="0" alt="cry" title="" src="graemlins/cry.gif" />
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#124072 - 11/04/02 11:50 AM Re: When did we as gamers get dumber?
fov Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 12/28/01
Posts: 2964
Loc: San Francisco
i think that adventure games have definitely changed in their attempts to reach a broader audience. certain puzzles feel easier to me now than they used to with the sierra adventures. (maybe that's because i grew up in the meantime!) the cog puzzle near the beginning of syberia really irked me because it wouldn't have taken much work from the developers to make it so that you could slip the cogs onto the wrong slots and not solve the puzzle, and have to figure out which slots were the right slots before you could move on. but that would have made the puzzle more challenging.

but it has to do with the internet, too. we solve the weirder puzzles more quickly now because it's easy to look up a hint. think how long it would have taken gamers to figure out that GK3 passport puzzle if not for the internet... c'mon, is there ANYONE who figured that out on their own?

-emily

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#124073 - 11/04/02 11:56 AM Re: When did we as gamers get dumber?
Skinter Offline
Shy Boomer

Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 4161
Loc: Herndon, VA
Quote:
Think how long it would have taken gamers to figure out that GK3 passport puzzle if not for the internet... c'mon, is there ANYONE who figured that out on their own?

-emily
How about the people who wrote the walkthroughs for us, Em????? laugh laugh laugh lol wave
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#124074 - 11/04/02 11:58 AM Re: When did we as gamers get dumber?
fov Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 12/28/01
Posts: 2964
Loc: San Francisco
i thought about that... but i want someone to own up before i'll actually believe it!

smile emily

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#124075 - 11/04/02 02:57 PM Re: When did we as gamers get dumber?
Jenny100 Offline
GB Reviewer Glitches Moderator
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 10/24/00
Posts: 35214
Loc: southeast USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Peter Smith:


For me comparing new with old I note that dialogue and scripting seems to have got much dumber over time.

For example in some older games if you spoke to the same NPC twice you would get a different response. Or NPCs would vary what they said according to what you had done. You'd get a good range of messages if you tried to do stupid things.

That's true. Even in newer games which have fairly decent dialog between characters, you don't get that range of responses from your character when you do something wrong. I'm hoping that Tony Tough will have some of this sort of thing though.

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#124076 - 11/04/02 06:41 PM Re: When did we as gamers get dumber?
Kathy Salisbury Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 121
Loc: USA
Quote:
About a quarter of the way through I was wishing I'd have picked junior detective lol They are really terrific games.
Hi Syd!

Could I ask which one of the Nancy Drew mysteries is your favorite? Thanks!
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Pharos Games
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#124077 - 11/04/02 07:17 PM Re: When did we as gamers get dumber?
gatorlaw Offline
Adept Boomer

Registered: 11/01/99
Posts: 10308
Quote:
For me comparing new with old I note that dialogue and scripting seems to have got much dumber over time.
Even in the Tex games which have those fabulous dialogue trees with the game changing based on your choice - I noticed a difference between the lines in UAKM and then the most recent game Overseer. However - I come bearing good news. smile

Just got back from the live chat with the Post Mortem crew over at JA and they have an intelligent - emotional response dialogue system in place with the game. Depending on your choice of question - I suppose angry, threatening etc the game choices/ options change for your character. There was a great deal of commentary on the dialogue in the game - so while it may not be the clever patter of older games - it definitely sounds like an improvement over many new games. I would say that Post Mortem sounds like a great game, so far. smile

Laura
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#124078 - 11/04/02 08:16 PM Re: When did we as gamers get dumber?
syd Offline
Adept Boomer

Registered: 11/12/99
Posts: 12306
Loc: Body in California/Heart in Ha...
Hi Kathy

I think it was a toss up between Treasure in the Royal Tower and Secret of the Scarlet Hand with a slight edge to the Scarlet Hand - maybe because of all the Myan history you learned. I know some found it a tad tedious having to go back and forth to find info for the Temple levels but I rather enjoyed it.
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#124079 - 11/04/02 08:59 PM Re: When did we as gamers get dumber?
Jenny100 Offline
GB Reviewer Glitches Moderator
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 10/24/00
Posts: 35214
Loc: southeast USA
I liked Royal Tower and Scarlet Hand the best too.
I don't know which of those two I like better.

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#124080 - 11/04/02 10:33 PM Re: When did we as gamers get dumber?
Kathy Salisbury Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 121
Loc: USA
Thanks, Syd and Jenny. I will get those games.

Hi Liz, I'm glad you like the cat idea. smile
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Pharos Games
http://pharosgames.com

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#124081 - 11/04/02 11:59 PM Re: When did we as gamers get dumber?
Advpuzlov Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 06/05/99
Posts: 2027
Loc: USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Kathy Salisbury:
Adventure games are really an artform, I think, unlike anything else.

On the demo for the last game, my testers convinced me to add a lot of helpful hints so the casual gamer can figure it out right away. It really does lose something though.

My last few games were educational too (maybe because I married a teacher?) As a wise person recently told me, the edutainment area is a "tough nut to crack".

At any rate, I think I have one more game left in me, and it will be a true adventure game, I promise you, and not too easy either.
I agree that Adventure games are an art form. That's one of the characteristics that most appeals to me.

As far as the "helpful hints" that some of your testers requested, why don't you do what I've seen in a few games, namely, have "hints" available, but require that they be requested while playing the game, i.e., have a little "hint" box that can be clicked for hints if felt necessary?

"Edutainment" games can be excellent Adventure games. An example that comes to mind is BYZANTINE, from which you could learn a lot and have a really great time playing. It is one of my favorite games. I pine for more like it.

Keep us posted on you next Adventure game, the one that will be a challenge at least as great as SCHIZM or possibly even BLACK DAHLIA. Actually, I am going to be replaying BLACK DAHLIA, shortly, and I am looking forward to the challenge of its puzzles. It has been long enough since I played it that although I remember the general character of the puzzles and sort of my approach to their solution, I haven't the vaguest idea how to do the actual solution, so it will be almost (but not quite) like doing them from scratch. Fun! laugh laugh laugh
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#124082 - 11/05/02 09:07 AM Re: When did we as gamers get dumber?
Kathy Salisbury Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 121
Loc: USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Advpuzlov:
"Edutainment" games can be excellent Adventure games. An example that comes to mind is [b]BYZANTINE, from which you could learn a lot and have a really great time playing. It is one of my favorite games. I pine for more like it.
[/b]
Hi Advpuzlov,

Well, I checked out Byzantine, and one reviewer said that most people feel let down and even a little mad when they find out it's educational. He said most people want to escape from the real world for a little while when they are playing a game.

Of course, Byzantine was produced by the Discovery channel, so it fits in with their mission, and I'm sure technically it was great. I wonder if an independent can hope to attain anything like that, but then again, you have Dark Fall... so it IS possible to come up with something great artistically. smile

I think I was influenced by my husband (a teacher) as my last games were more and more like games that might be used in schools by children. It is the curse of women that we try to please our men, even when we don't realize we are doing it. rolleyes

He reads history and science books, watches History Channel or Discovery for fun. I must admit being more into escapism myself. I had a good time last night starting to work on a dancing cat animation. laugh
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Kathy Salisbury
Pharos Games
http://pharosgames.com

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#124083 - 11/05/02 11:17 AM Re: When did we as gamers get dumber?
mbc841 Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 03/29/01
Posts: 368
Loc: Alexandria, VA USA
Kathy said:
Quote:
I won't give away too much, but it will involve a mad scientist and talking cats
Well I'm ready for this game now ! ! laugh
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