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#124200 - 03/01/03 04:34 PM Why do other genre gamers hate us so much???
girlgeek Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 06/16/02
Posts: 1957
Loc: Kansas City, Missouri, USA
You know, I don't hate action gamers, or rpg-ers, or strategy gamers, or any OTHER type gamers. So....why is it they all seem to hate adventure gamers so much??

I've posted on other gaming boards and been met with downright hateful flaming just for expressing my love of adventures. And I'm always careful to say that I do play other genres as well (because I DO), but....they still pounce on me like I've just commited a mortal sin! What's up with that??? How did we become such a HATED segment of the gaming population???

<img border="0" alt="cry" title="" src="graemlins/cry.gif" />
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#124201 - 03/01/03 04:44 PM Re: Why do other genre gamers hate us so much???
burpee Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 12/14/00
Posts: 4516
Loc: North aurora IL
They do? grrrr.

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#124202 - 03/01/03 05:27 PM Re: Why do other genre gamers hate us so much???
kjos Online   happy
BAAG Specialist

Registered: 10/11/01
Posts: 5487
Loc: Beverly Hills, Florida
I too have the same problem. I went to a action webb once looking for a walkthrough. There were some there but I found a more complete walkthrough for the game I was looking for, and posted a reply. I got a answer to my reply and it said (We would rather write our own walkthrough, goodbye). I never went back there again.
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#124203 - 03/01/03 05:35 PM Re: Why do other genre gamers hate us so much???
SuMac Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 12/26/01
Posts: 1995
Loc: New Hampshire
Maybe they don't take us seriously, and think we're a bunch of wimps, because we'd rather not spend our leisure time slicing and dicing our way through horrible monsters, or fighting gun battles, or trying to escape other forms of violent death.

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#124204 - 03/01/03 05:37 PM Re: Why do other genre gamers hate us so much???
SuMac Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 12/26/01
Posts: 1995
Loc: New Hampshire
P.S., I should have added: because we'd rather use our brains than our trigger fingers.

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#124205 - 03/01/03 05:52 PM Re: Why do other genre gamers hate us so much???
Witchen Offline
True Blue Boomer

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 22381
Loc: Seattle Washington USA
Well, there's room here at Gameboomers for puzzlers, adventurers, rpgers, fpsers and "slice and dicers" FOTFL laugh laugh laugh , that's for sure! Come one come all...its just one big community. That's what makes Gameboomers such a great place to park your hat, or your bike, or your HummerII, or even your unicycle! ......whatever you got, we've got a spot for it.....we're just plain NICE here at Gameboomers!

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#124206 - 03/01/03 06:01 PM Re: Why do other genre gamers hate us so much???
DBK Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 02/21/01
Posts: 3993
Loc: Southern Wisconsin through Nor...
Quote:
P.S., I should have added: because we'd rather use our brains than our trigger fingers.
They're just jealous of our brain power. <img border="0" alt="[winky]" title="" src="graemlins/winky.gif" />
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Dawn B.

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#124207 - 03/01/03 06:04 PM Re: Why do other genre gamers hate us so much???
gatorlaw Offline
Adept Boomer

Registered: 11/01/99
Posts: 10312
I don't know that all folks who play action games hate adventure gamers. I have played a number of number of FSP/action games as have quite a few people here at GB.

I think that at many pure action sites - the average age of the members is considerably younger than here at GB and other more mixed sites. As such - they aren't only ruder to an adventure gamer who stumbles in - they tend to give fellow members more than their share of grief as well. A lot of it is just the way they joke and talk to one another. I look at many of the threads to get a sense of the layout before I post. If it's fairly rough and tumble - I expect it too. On the other hand - there is some universal disdain of adventure games as they think of them. They just don;t want a story, plot - dialogue and the like to get in the way of quick twitch action and can't figure out what the noise is all about with those who do. Just the way it is.

That's why I hang here at GB - it suits me fine smile

Laura
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#124208 - 03/01/03 06:07 PM Re: Why do other genre gamers hate us so much???
kjos Online   happy
BAAG Specialist

Registered: 10/11/01
Posts: 5487
Loc: Beverly Hills, Florida
Good for you witchen. I love adventure games but I've played all the new ones, so I have to go to action and rpg. They keep me going until another adventure game comes out.
Richard
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#124209 - 03/01/03 06:21 PM Re: Why do other genre gamers hate us so much???
Witchen Offline
True Blue Boomer

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 22381
Loc: Seattle Washington USA
Another genre I should have mentioned above is "strategy." I love strategy games, not necessarily war/combat, but city/country building games like the Sierra series Pharoah/Cleopatra/Zeus/Poseidon and the latest, Emperor! Great stories, very engaging. There's another called "Tropico" about building an empire south of the border, and many, many others that are darn fun and NICE for a change. smile



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#124210 - 03/01/03 06:46 PM Re: Why do other genre gamers hate us so much???
Singer Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 09/04/01
Posts: 2521
I certainly agree with Witchen that there's room here for everyone with all different tastes, and that the "niceness" of GB is what makes the difference.

On the other hand, it's good for everyone to remember to check their biases at the door. Being an action gamer myself, I can't think of too many brains that I envy, personally. wink

Jack
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#124211 - 03/01/03 07:07 PM Re: Why do other genre gamers hate us so much???
Mad Offline
True Blue Boomer

Registered: 11/21/00
Posts: 23448
Loc: United Kingdom
Hi.

I reckon those ones who "hate" us (and they don't ALL hate us) just allow their tongues to run away with themselves as much as their action button fingers do.....

rolleyes rolleyes rolleyes

Cheers.

Mad wave
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#124212 - 03/01/03 08:14 PM Re: Why do other genre gamers hate us so much???
JMK Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2582
Loc: California
I think gatorlaw hit it right on the head. It all depends on the board and how it's moderated. I personally won't post on one that runs wild. There's too much grief in the world already without me posting and then having to get all worked up over the fighting and arguing in places like that, so I avoid them.

GB is a great place, because we accept all types of gamers here.

Witchen, I like strategy games too, but I'm a dunce at them. smile I start out fine and then spread myself too thin. I have "The Nations" here that looks pretty good, so eventually I'll get up my nerve to try it.

Jean
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#124213 - 03/01/03 08:32 PM Re: Why do other genre gamers hate us so much???
audrey522 Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 03/31/01
Posts: 602
Loc: Gillette, Wyoming
Why do they hate us???
frown frown frown
Why does a person hate ANYONE who is smarter, cuter and more popular than them?

lol lol lol

Marion
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#124214 - 03/01/03 10:07 PM Re: Why do other genre gamers hate us so much???
Witchen Offline
True Blue Boomer

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 22381
Loc: Seattle Washington USA
Hi Jean, wave

....you yourself hit it on the head too, with your statement about there already being enough grief in the world. Gaming creates a community of fun, relaxation and, yes, even education, here at Gameboomers. Its a fine space to hang in, isn't it? Collectively, Gameboomers creates the best of all possible gaming environments, thanks to both members and staff. As they say..."birds of a feather flock together."


As for strategy games, I haven't heard of "The Nations." Sounds like I am missing something. I'll check it out. laugh


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#124215 - 03/01/03 11:27 PM Re: Why do other genre gamers hate us so much???
Salar of Myst Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 12/06/02
Posts: 4216
Loc: Virginia's wetland dimension
heh. I know Im glad I came laugh

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#124216 - 03/02/03 05:51 AM Re: Why do other genre gamers hate us so much???
Broomie Offline
Shy Boomer

Registered: 02/25/03
Posts: 38
Loc: London ,England
Quote:
Originally posted by girlgeek:
I've posted on other gaming boards and been met with downright hateful flaming just for expressing my love of adventures.
What gaming board is this. I'll sort them out... mad
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#124217 - 03/02/03 06:36 AM Re: Why do other genre gamers hate us so much???
Incognitas Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 171
Loc: Between Portsmouth and Southam...
Most of them are young,male and hyped up on the adrenalin rush of the games.My son is 14 and plays Halo/Unreal/Serious Sam like a demon.He refuses to play them with me anymore because he gets bored at how bad I am due entirely to me having appallingly slow reactions compared to his younger body.Add to this the fact he is a typical moody teenager who naturally doesn't want me(his mother and an adult) to butt into his interests and hobbies and I think that you have the recipe for apparent aggression against adventure gamers because we tend to be older.Their attitude may be those that those who can, do action,those who can't, do adventure.The PC Games magazines also tend to reflect this attitude as most of the writers are in the younger section of 20-30.

I just stay away from sites like that.There are plenty dedicated to adventure games.Some of the ones set up for specific games spring to mind as well as this one.

Incog.
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#124218 - 03/02/03 07:52 AM Re: Why do other genre gamers hate us so much???
Becky Offline
The Medieval Lady
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 02/16/00
Posts: 26894
Loc: Stony Brook, New York, USA
"those who can, do action,those who can't, do adventure"

I love this statement! Action gamers should enjoy their youth while they still can. They'll have plenty of years left to appreciate slow-moving adventures when their reflexes are shot.

Maybe adventure gamers posting on action forums are a nasty reminder of the inevitable day when you can't complete a game because you can't move fast enough. That day when your hearing is no longer so good and your vision dims. That day you can't distinguish real maple syrup from the imitation stuff. That horrible day when you wake up and realize: "It's come to this -- I can maintain my competence as a gamer only if I stick to games like Myst!"

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#124219 - 03/02/03 11:50 AM Re: Why do other genre gamers hate us so much???
Scout Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 11/17/01
Posts: 1118
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Don't be too hard on the younger, male actioneer. Being surly and nasty is part of the act. I have a 16 year old nephew who has a black belt in Karate, helps his master teach classes, goes out to his grandparents, helps his grandmother in the kitchen, helps his grandfather ride the rounds out on the farm. He's a good student, very friendly and respectful. But get that guy on an online shooter and he becomes this killing machine, ripping swaths through the other young players. There is a function where you can type text and taunt the other players and he shakes his head at some of the stuff they say. Still, who knows what happens when he plays alone. Anyway, it is a virtual environment. As in, not real. Like Jack says, we should ALL check our biases at the door.

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#124220 - 03/02/03 11:56 AM Re: Why do other genre gamers hate us so much???
Jim Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 08/16/01
Posts: 147
Hi I think part of the intolerance of the people that play the shoot um up type games is age. Adventure game players are a mature lot (from a poll).The gamers that think the shoot and kill games are the only worthwhile ones are a much younger group, on the average. No one is as smart as a second year college student. The older you get the more you realize how little you know. Also instant gratification comes into play. You have to wait --sometimes weeks to get that charge from adventure games. A very poor second to blast and kill in many of the other type games. These are NOW games. Anyway I have played both and much prefer to think and solve rather than run around with a "zapper gun" or some such thing. There is room for us all (from Witchen) and hopefully we will all get along.
Regards Jim

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#124221 - 03/02/03 01:49 PM Re: Why do other genre gamers hate us so much???
nickie Offline
Grand wizard of high mucky muck
Adept Boomer

Registered: 01/08/02
Posts: 13453
Loc: Texas
I would just like to mention as a person as fond of RPGs as I am of adventures, that I really don't see the bias on RPG forums against adventurers either. And they are generally just as maligned by some of the FPS type boards.Not action gamers as a whole. Everyone has already said it before, so I won't belabor the point that age seems to me to be a huge factor, but also I think the moderators set the tone for any forum - and there are adventure forums that malign other adventure forums too. We're so lucky to have a place like GB where that sort of thing is not tolerated, and everyone is welcome.
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#124222 - 03/02/03 02:47 PM Re: Why do other genre gamers hate us so much???
Worthums Offline
Shy Boomer

Registered: 02/28/03
Posts: 43
Loc: Sacramento, California
I've been on the net for ages...since 91...and I've never come across such a more welcoming, kind and helpful board as this.

There's just way too many people on the net who like to stir up [blip]. As they remain anonymous, they feel more powerful.

I know my future stepsons think i'm absolutely insane for playing adventure games. They'd rather pull their fingernails out than have to sit down and read and use their brains. So, what it comes down to is the gender gap.
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#124223 - 03/02/03 03:55 PM Re: Why do other genre gamers hate us so much???
infernoj13usa Offline
The Radiant Moderator Staff Reviewer
BAAG Specialist

Registered: 06/07/02
Posts: 5766
Loc: FT. Worth ....Where the West b...
Quote:
Originally posted by Worthums:
I've been on the net for ages...since 91...and I've never come across such a more welcoming, kind and helpful board as this.

There's just way too many people on the net who like to stir up [blip]. As they remain anonymous, they feel more powerful.

I know my future stepsons think i'm absolutely insane for playing adventure games. They'd rather pull their fingernails out than have to sit down and read and use their brains. So, what it comes down to is the gender gap.
I agree with you. When my boys where teenagers the would spend hours "stirring up trouble" in chat rooms and message boards. They thought it was hysterictly funny and powerful to make fun and flame and whatnot....that is, until one day...someone did it to someone they loved...me.
You should have seen them. They were furious, after all how dare some "idoit" on a message board hurt they're mom's feelings, make her cry and upset her (it didn't really make me cry ..I just led them to believe it did, I WAS trying to make a point with them, after all) I told them through my sobs (I'm good at "sobs") that all I had done was ask a question and immediately I was virtually screamed at. Flamed! I asked them, "Well, why should you care? After all, you boys do it to other people all the time."
Do you know that from that day on both my boys stopped their "flamethrowers" and attitude on message boards. It made them realize that they really had no clue who the "human being" is behind that screen name that they were ready to "burn" They both realized that what they were indulging in was a form of "ignorant cowardice".
They never looked at it as though they were being rude and hurting people's feeling. They realize now though. They spent the rest of their "teenage years helping people instead of hurting them." And now and then jumping in and downright saving them if needs be. Yup, I watched my sons grow that day, that one little step that true adults call "understanding". It was a beautiful thing.
Inferno
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#124224 - 03/02/03 06:53 PM Re: Why do other genre gamers hate us so much???
housewife Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 03/23/01
Posts: 3971
Loc: Brooklyn, New York
Most of the people that play action games are youngsters. For me I don't hate anyone else for playing what they love.

I love adventure games because is an escape from the real world. Adventure games takes me to a whole new world of imagination and I love that. I don't need anymore violence, I get that from Televsion.

And I have played action games, but it is not my cup of tea.

I love adventure games and the makers of adventure games, their imagination their stories and challenges the mind.

I know a few people who only played action games, and I lend them some of my adventure games and they loved it. So for those who never played adventure games, don't knock it until you try it.

Liz thumbsup
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#124225 - 03/02/03 09:30 PM Re: Why do other genre gamers hate us so much???
ramona Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 11/30/01
Posts: 1175
Loc: Michigan, USA
I pretty much agree with everything I saw here. I know that because I am a part of a community that welcomes all gamers has given me a bug to try RPG games(got to be turn based since I have no quick reflexes and I'm 30) lol

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#124226 - 03/02/03 10:10 PM Re: Why do other genre gamers hate us so much???
Salar of Myst Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 12/06/02
Posts: 4216
Loc: Virginia's wetland dimension
Shorah smile

I began my gaming life as a teen with the Zork series, but back then pc "action" titles were laughable so I cant claim any real temptation. Alternatives ate my few extra quarters too quickly smile

Since then I've played quite a few platformers, puzzlers, rpgs, and a few action-adventure games (mostly Zelda). I dont like or dislike games because they are of a particular genre, I like them when they are well-made, clean,intelligent fun. (even 2 outta 3 aint bad) Adventure games currently give me more of that than most other options. I like a good story. When its also "purty" & has good puzzles, life is very, very good laugh

I agree that the rpg-ers are, by & large, less hostile to the adventure game crowd. A number of them arent averse to at least trying an adventure game. After all, a good RPG requires patience, memory skills, and some strategy. More occasionally you get a lengthy and/or complex story to go with it all (Final Fantasy 3 & Chronotrigger come to mind)

I dont think the hostility that some action/fps boards sport is entirely a youth or male thing (though that often affects the form of expression) Young women in these online worlds adopt the same manners & mannerisms to fit in...which is telling. The games in question encourage aggressiveness & soldier-like attitudes ("us" vs "them") which carries over into forums.

(Adventure gaming must be as totally "them" as you can get!)

& Some of the noise is actually defensive (we may feel dumb next to you puzzlers but we're tough!)

A number of game mags & mods reinforce the stupidity, making it "socially acceptable" to be rude to and about gentler forms of entertainment frown

Not all action gamers ARE hostile though. Some who have the reflexes see things like Quake, Halo, Wolfeinstein et al as a good place to blow off some steam & relax. Kinda like solitaire with a machine gun. They dont take it seriously. Some of them enjoy adventure games, rpgs, even 1000+ page novels. I dont want to over--generalize. Myst, Civilization, & Doom may not seem like compatible interests but my husband enjoyed them all. He's never flamed anyone.

There are and there have always been, plenty of young men & women who enjoy games like Myst, Mario Sunshine, Tetris, Pandora's Box, & Riddle of the Sphinx.

As housewife pointed out, many havent tried adventure gaming. Until they do, they dont understand the attractions. They don't know they are "smart enough"

IMO, that discovery makes a big difference

hope you dont mind my rattling on,

Salar smile

Im currently playing/replaying (in pieces as time & interest beckon) : Mario Sunshine & Zelda:Ocarina on the Gamecube, Schizm & Mystery of the Nautilus on pc (I like the game, I love Jules Verne, but I hate that robot gggrrrrr), & Chronotrigger on ps1

and Im reading 3 books (not simultaneously)

but I will set aside all I havent finished when Omega Stone gets here laugh laugh laugh

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#124227 - 03/02/03 11:34 PM Re: Why do other genre gamers hate us so much???
Glynn Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 03/03/01
Posts: 3143
Loc: Virginia
Hi "Fellow Boomers"!! I just want to say...this is the best place to be if you are looking for a "hint, gentle push..or a great big shove" In an Adventure, RPG, Action..or whatever! I think it is great that there are different types of games..and even greater that there are different types of "people" who play them!! {good thing we don't all like the same things..:-)}I play more Adventure games than anything else..but I also play Action/RPG's too.. Keep Smiling! :-) Glynn

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#124228 - 03/03/03 03:29 AM Re: Why do other genre gamers hate us so much???
Kickaha Offline
GB Special Events Reporter
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 03/27/01
Posts: 2431
Loc: Cambridge, England
Boomers is a great place thanks to the subtle moderation.

There are people out there whose idea of a good time is being rude. One of the long established Adventure newsgroups had more than its share of pretentious putdowns. Each to their own - I'll stick with sites like Boomers.
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#124229 - 03/03/03 11:20 AM Re: Why do other genre gamers hate us so much???
emma Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 04/17/00
Posts: 696
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
I used to think that action gamers hated adventure gamers, until one guy angrily told me "you adventure game players always look down at us action gamers", which certainly struck a cord. Somehwere along the line, adventure became the smart people's choice and action the dumb kid's preferred choice. EXTREME generalization, of course. I'm thinking that this somehow has become a vicious circle, that if adventure is mentioned in action gatherings, they feel an imminent snob attack coming, and vice versa.

Of course, there will always be a certain amount of insensitive morons on any place, much less here of course, wink but sometimes it's worth to think about why on earth this "competition" between the genres exist. Why can't everybody just get along... <img border="0" alt="[winky]" title="" src="graemlins/winky.gif" />
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#124230 - 03/03/03 12:36 PM Re: Why do other genre gamers hate us so much???
Howard the Doc Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 02/08/02
Posts: 368
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
Let's face it, Witchen, why be modest? We are the intellectual elite of the gaming world. The creme de la creme, the top 6%, the aristocracy of those who have waaay too much time on their hands (or who get waaay too little sleep). Boomers, you know who you are. We have lived long and prospered (maybe) and now are reaping our rewards (before we go to our reward). Now, Witchen, given the breadth of games you play, I'd say you have waaaaaaaaay too much time on your hands as well as a hell of a retirement package to be able to afford all that gaming goodness. All that playing plus writing WTs and being Miss Manners on the Discussion Board. I am truly impressed.
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Not only is the universe stranger than we imagine, it's stranger than we CAN imagine - J.B.S. Haldane
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#124231 - 03/03/03 12:38 PM Re: Why do other genre gamers hate us so much???
Howard the Doc Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 02/08/02
Posts: 368
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
Also, I would like to congratulate you on achieving the ultimate to which we all aspire - a discussion thread named just for you.
I'm not worthy!!
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Not only is the universe stranger than we imagine, it's stranger than we CAN imagine - J.B.S. Haldane
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Games will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no games.

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#124232 - 03/03/03 04:12 PM Re: Why do other genre gamers hate us so much???
mszv Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 03/18/02
Posts: 1565
Loc: Pennsylvania, USA (left my bel...
I love adventure games, but I don't think that makes me or anyone here smarter or better than the people who prefer other game genres. It just means that I and other people on this board love adventure games. Demographics wise, adventure gamers do seem to be older, but that's just a fact, it's neither good nor bad. There are plenty of things many middle aged people like to do(and I'm one of them, middle aged that is) that I don't like at all, and vice versa. Gee, hope that didn't come out mean, it wasn't meant to be. It's just a thing I have, people saying that people who play adventure games are somehow smarter and better than other gamers, or other people in general. I don't like that. What I do like is how people here can share a common interest, on this board. That's very appealing to me, also the fact that this is a kind board. I like that.

I agree with the comments on RPG boards. On the few that I've seen, there is very little flaming.

On other boards and "meanness". Younger boards tend to attract flaming. Sometimes along with the flaming, you get a very lively, energetic board, which is nice. I try to never flame, but I must admit, there have been times when I've lost it. It's so easy to do, on a board. All kinds of boards can become mean and factionalized, boards on obscure academic topics, boards on, well, anything. It's the moderation that makes the difference. On another board I post at, I've told people that "all boards are moderated". If the people running the boards don't moderate them, your most assertive posters will do the moderation for you. Sometimes that isn't what you want.
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mszv, amarez in Myst Online (KI 89257)and my online worlds.

blog - http://www.amarez.com, Twitter - http://www.twitter.com/amareze

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#124233 - 03/03/03 04:57 PM Re: Why do other genre gamers hate us so much???
Witchen Offline
True Blue Boomer

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 22381
Loc: Seattle Washington USA
"I'd say you have waaaaaaaaay too much time on your hands as well as a hell of a retirement package to be able to afford all that gaming goodness."

hahahahaha laugh laugh laugh , Howard! You're right on one thing there and soooooo wrong on the other, and I'm sure someone will happily oblige you with a thread all to your ownship one of these days.....FOTFL laugh laugh laugh

Hi there mszv.....It could be that adventure gamers tend to be older....not sure though, because many, many of the games kids play before they reach their teenage years, could likely be called "adventures." Certainly you'd include the Nancy Drew series. I'm thinking about "Oregon Trail," for example, and those that might be considered edutainment too, as opposed to pure educational games.

Love, Witchen =O)

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#124234 - 03/03/03 06:06 PM Re: Why do other genre gamers hate us so much???
mszv Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 03/18/02
Posts: 1565
Loc: Pennsylvania, USA (left my bel...
Very good points Witchen, on possible adventure game demographics! We've got young(ish) and middle-aged and older, now we need to rope in more other ages! I don't want adventure game snobbery, but I want more people playing adventure games!
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mszv, amarez in Myst Online (KI 89257)and my online worlds.

blog - http://www.amarez.com, Twitter - http://www.twitter.com/amareze

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#124235 - 03/03/03 06:35 PM Re: Why do other genre gamers hate us so much???
Witchen Offline
True Blue Boomer

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 22381
Loc: Seattle Washington USA
"I don't want adventure game snobbery, but I want more people playing adventure games!"

Boy, you got that right mszv, and I want more adventure games to play! LOL laugh

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#124236 - 03/04/03 12:28 AM Re: Why do other genre gamers hate us so much???
Bryansmom Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 02/18/02
Posts: 1522
Loc: Indiana
I think people join boards for different reasons. Here at Gameboomers we like to share, receive and give help and discuss adventure games. I don't think that many of us would enjoy arguing or being mean or sarcastic in a cruel way with each other. On some boards, however, there is something like road rage where anyone who asks a question, doesn't know as much as the more knowledgeable members or doesn't agree with the majority gets flamed. I think it is because the person on the other end can't be seen (as others have stated on this thread). I don't think this necessarily has anything to do with the topic of the board, whether it is a type of game, music or animal that is loved or discussed; it just has to do with the maturity of the posters and whether or not the board meets their needs. If a person flames in another board, they might be congratulated; however, here at GB it wouldn't be tolerated, so that need wouldn't be met here. When you are at a board that tolerates or rewards that type of behavior, you may have the objective of discussing a matter in a civilized way or informing others of a different point of view, but it will not be accepted or even tolerated because they enjoy being hostile to you and are rewarded for it. Frequenting that sort of board can also set you up for horrid e-mails, viruses and e-bomb things that freeze you computer (I learned the hard way), so I find it is best to hang around a while and get the feel of a board before I post. If I see the board seems hostile, I tend not to try to educate the ignorant, and instead leave them to each other.
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What lies behind you and what lies before you are tiny matters compared to what lies within you.
--Ralph Waldo Emerson

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#124237 - 03/04/03 02:00 AM Re: Why do other genre gamers hate us so much???
gsd Offline
Shy Boomer

Registered: 06/21/01
Posts: 85
Loc: Sacramento, Ca. USA
I agree with those who have said that "flaming" on any forum has more to do with the personality and tolerance of the forum for opposing views rather than age or interest. For example, I have been attacked on a cruise board forum for stating an honest opinion. The cruise line defenders buried me rather quickly and these were mostly a well over age thirty group. It's happened on other non-game forums as well.
So it's not really adventure gamers these other non-adventure game forums hate. It's really only anyone who has a different opinion about what they like. There are a few rare forums around, like this one, which manage to hold it together by good moderators and a mix of members who understand and accept differences. That's why they last.

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#124238 - 03/04/03 02:09 AM Re: Why do other genre gamers hate us so much???
girlgeek Offline
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Registered: 06/16/02
Posts: 1957
Loc: Kansas City, Missouri, USA
WOW...what an incredibly great bunch of responses to my "woe is me" cry! I think everything that was said was SO worthwhile! I just LOVE it here!

Part of my problem with other boards is that the younger part of ME still feels a need to defend everyone's right to love their favorite genre...REGARDLESS of what that might be! MINE just happens to be adventures. But as I've stated before....I play a little bit of EVERYthing, so I don't think I talk down to "non-adventurers." I do try to encourage them to recognize that adventure gamers do exist, however. And to that...they often respond with a "who cares" type attitude. That hurts my feelings, but....such is life, I suppose.

I guess that young part of me needs to grow up and realize....there's no need to defend myself, my choices, or my friends. I'm an adult now, and don't have to do that! I just love adventures and all of you SO much that it irks me to no end when we get bashed!!! And that's when I usually try to kindly but firmly respond to such bashing...and it goes on and on then, ad infinitum! There's just no openmindedness in some people, regardless of whether they are young or old.

C'est la vie!

Finally, I must say...I'm VERY lucky to have a board like THIS one where we are all free to be ourselves and just enjoy gaming and each other.

Hugs and kisses,
<img border="0" alt="[kiss]" title="" src="graemlins/kiss.gif" />

Lori
"girlgeek"
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PLAYING ON PC: World of Warcraft...nothing else...there is no need for ANY other game when you have THIS one to play!! LOL

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#124239 - 03/04/03 07:12 AM Re: Why do other genre gamers hate us so much???
Lorryrose Offline
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Registered: 06/21/00
Posts: 1002
Loc: Jordan, Mn. USA
Inferno - Just wanted to say that I loved your post. What a valuable lesson you taught your sons. And how special they must be to have actually learned it.
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Judy

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#124240 - 03/04/03 12:30 PM Re: Why do other genre gamers hate us so much???
mszv Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 03/18/02
Posts: 1565
Loc: Pennsylvania, USA (left my bel...
Well, girlgeek, you are so quick, clever and engaging, I can't image why those other game forums wouldn't be eager to read your comments. you aren't a grumpy "geezer in training" like me!

I do think that sometimes adventure games are thought of as either games for the very young, or "geezer" kind of games - they aren't hip, smart, clever, quick, edgy kinds of games. You know, in the middle of snow country, the adventure gamers would be cross country skiing, or perhaps downhill skiing, while the "edgier" folks would be snowboarding, that sort of thing. On the streets the adventure gamers would be walking (quickly, with a map), the action gamers would would be skateboarding, the rpgers would be role playing like they were movie stars and getting into nightclubs, the strategy people would be, well, the analogy escapes me. There also aren't a lot of adrenaline rushes in most adventure games. There aren't adrenaline rushes in other types of game genres either (strategy), but adventure games seem to be singled out. And finally, when people say that adventure games are smarter, more sophisticated, more intellectual, that sort of thing, well that's going to really irritate other gamers, particularly young ones. It's like there are the "good games" and the "bad games". I've seen it on this board - we adventure gamers play the "good games", the other gamers play the "bad games". You know, I love the movies "The Lord of the Rings", and there is a lot of action in those movies. Who knows, if I could ever get my reflexes up, maybe I would like an action game, along with my first love, adventure games.

Just a continuation of my thoughts.
_________________________
mszv, amarez in Myst Online (KI 89257)and my online worlds.

blog - http://www.amarez.com, Twitter - http://www.twitter.com/amareze

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#124241 - 03/04/03 02:08 PM Re: Why do other genre gamers hate us so much???
Singer Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 09/04/01
Posts: 2521
Yipes!! eek This is off the main topic, but I couldn't let mszv's comment go by. There are SOME "strategy" games that don't get the blood pumping, but the vast majority (the RTS or Real-Time Strategies) are definitely NOT for the weak at heart. Not only do they induce adrenaline but they SUSTAIN it. I rarely feel as exhausted (gamewise) as after a massive strategy conflict. wink (not picking on you, mszv; just trying to prevent some misconception)

As for the rest of the discussion, perhaps the next question should be... how can adventures become relevant again?? It's all fine and well to appeal to the current niche market (us), but that'll never bridge the gap of age and interest like we're discussing here.

I'm extremely interested to see what LucasArts does with the Full Throttle and Sam & Max sequels. They've got a rich tradition of great adventures, obviously, but you can bet they won't be satisfied with marketing only to the "geezers", so I'm looking forward to seeing how they approach the problem.

Jack
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Editor, Adventure Gamers

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#124242 - 03/04/03 03:08 PM Re: Why do other genre gamers hate us so much???
mszv Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 03/18/02
Posts: 1565
Loc: Pennsylvania, USA (left my bel...
Thanks Singer. You aren't picking on me at all! I didn't know a lot about strategy games, so you corrected my misconceptions. Thanks. Good to know they are exciting!
_________________________
mszv, amarez in Myst Online (KI 89257)and my online worlds.

blog - http://www.amarez.com, Twitter - http://www.twitter.com/amareze

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#124243 - 03/04/03 04:00 PM Re: Why do other genre gamers hate us so much???
gatorlaw Offline
Adept Boomer

Registered: 11/01/99
Posts: 10312
Just to throw in another angle on the making adventure games so that they have a broader appeal. My thought is - don't do that.

One of the advantages to adventure games that do appeal to the majority of hard core adventure fans is that they are relatively inexpensive as compared to action games or hybrids. They also tend to have a shorter development time table - assuming they are adequately funded from the start. A good example was cited in a canadian review of Syberia several months back.

Quote:
It is Microids most expensive undertaking to date, costing an estimated 2 million dollars. For comparison's sake Ion Storms' much maligned Daikatana, took over 4 years to develop, reputedly cost more than 30 million dollars and bombed in a spectacular fasion.
The point I am throwing out is that Adventure games can be made that have elements that attract more action based gamers - but it will result in games that are too talky and plot driven for them and too actiony for the adventure fans, cost much more to produce and on a proportionate basis show less profit over time for the dollars spent in development. Less profits will translate into fewer such games. On the other hand - there is evidence that those who stick with the proven format (ie Herinteractive) make a steady profit of a highly reliable nature. Now you have Infogrames making a bid and winning - getting Herinteractive and the profitable ND titles for their publishing group.

If I were trying to entice investers in these uncertain economic times, I think that 2 million ventured over 2 years with 250,000 minimum in sales at 30.00 per game is a much better return than 30 million invested over 4 years that might be the next GTA or more likely a big bust.

I think that we will see more games produced in the future by the idea that sure and steady profits beat out speculative risk than changing our games to lure people who don't really want to play them in the first place.

Laura
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#124244 - 03/04/03 05:27 PM Re: Why do other genre gamers hate us so much???
Singer Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 09/04/01
Posts: 2521
Laura, I didn't actually suggest that developers should MAKE adventure games differently. I used words like "marketing" and "approach", which isn't the same thing.

In the glory days of Sierra and LucasArts, they didn't HAVE to market the adventure genre, because it was at or near the top. They didn't have to advertise their GAMES because the competition was so much less, and they were kings of the hill. Now that isn't true.

Personally, I do feel that - aside from a few exceptions - adventures are mired in mediocrity, and they do need to be improved and infused with new ideas. But that's not really on the table for anyone, so it's likely that the business model you're suggesting will continue. But since that would mean that we could be having this same "generation gap" conversation 5 years from now, I was trying to suggest something that might make some inroads in the meantime.

To address your point specifically, I don't disagree, but the fact that even DreamCatcher is branching into non-adventures (even to the point of distancing its DC brand name from the genre), is a fair indicator that although profitable, it's considered inside the industry as a market with limited potential.

All I can say at the moment is thank goodness for Microids!! The Adventure Company, too, although mostly they're just publishing sequels and Microids games lately.

Jack
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Editor, Adventure Gamers

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#124245 - 03/04/03 06:03 PM Re: Why do other genre gamers hate us so much???
tigger Offline
Graduate Boomer

Registered: 04/02/01
Posts: 15679
Loc: England
Well...

Having just wrestled with the audio puzzle in real Myst.. Maybe they are sooooo jealous that we can still hear REAL sounds such as birds singing in the trees.. lol

After all the assault their eardrums get from playing FPS games, they will be in first line for deafness/tinnitus lol I bet Most of them play with headphones on...

Tig
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A bounce a day keeps the doctor away!!
Playing Sims2, Sherlock, Phantom of Venice
Reading Storm Breaking

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#124246 - 03/04/03 06:59 PM Re: Why do other genre gamers hate us so much???
gatorlaw Offline
Adept Boomer

Registered: 11/01/99
Posts: 10312
I wasn't disagreeing with you Singer. Actually - it was more that your comments triggered those thoughts. What I wrote isn't the sun total of my views on the industry - just an aspect of it.

I also think that marketing is needed to stimulate sales. There are also quite a few people out there who have no idea such games even exist and might prefer to play them as a family or even get them over console games for their younger kids to play.

On a personal preference note - I actually prefer the games of recent years over many of the older classics per se. I enjoy enhanced graphics, deeper sound tracks and a more versitile interface as well as plot lines. But when I consider that I do like the classics - and not everyone is fond of a more active game model - then I think that to build improvements into the genre - it has to be in terms of enhancements at first and not mucking around too much with the basic model. My preference would be to see more innovative plots and locales, throwing in alternate paths internally. The interface - I would think it best to leave mouse oriented. That seems to be one of the biggest sticky points for the majority of adventure gamers.

As for the new BS3, Sam and Max and even Full Throttle 2 - I will get them - play them and probably love the heck out of at least one if not all of them. laugh

Laura
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#124247 - 03/04/03 08:02 PM Re: Why do other genre gamers hate us so much???
Singer Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 09/04/01
Posts: 2521
Yep, good insights all, Laura. smile Those types of enhancements are right along the lines of what I think are needed, too. Branching paths and multiple puzzle solutions are right at the top of my wish list. Plus the inclusion of actual AI instead of hard-scripted triggers would be a HUGE bonus (but that's getting back into the cost and time issue... sigh....)

Jack
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Editor, Adventure Gamers

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#124248 - 03/04/03 08:55 PM Re: Why do other genre gamers hate us so much???
Coreoverload Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 08/10/02
Posts: 1181
One sentence says it nicely. Violent video games linked to aggressive behavior. And I like playing them. <img border="0" alt="cry" title="" src="graemlins/cry.gif" />

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#124249 - 03/04/03 10:06 PM Re: Why do other genre gamers hate us so much???
gatorlaw Offline
Adept Boomer

Registered: 11/01/99
Posts: 10312
Oh don't worry Coreoverload,

My parents said the same thing about us watching The Three Stooges and I never once hit my brother in the head with a hammer. I like FSP's too. GTA Vice City is on the console deck now. I tend to think that it is a safe and non-real way to get rid of excess stress. vroom vroom. laugh

Laura
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#124250 - 03/04/03 10:25 PM Re: Why do other genre gamers hate us so much???
Singer Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 09/04/01
Posts: 2521
Yeah, I wouldn't sweat that, COL. Did you know that all serial killers brush their teeth? Oh no!! I brush my teeth!!! laugh (see?)

Yes, that's a completely ridiculous correlation. I play lots of violent games, and I'm completely harmless (and I'll pummel the living daylights out of anyone that claims otherwise... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="cool.gif" /> )

Jack
_________________________
Editor, Adventure Gamers

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#124251 - 03/04/03 10:32 PM Re: Why do other genre gamers hate us so much???
Salar of Myst Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 12/06/02
Posts: 4216
Loc: Virginia's wetland dimension
Shorah,

Do you regard works like Freddi Fish, Manhole ME, Cluefinders, & Spyfox as adventures? I always thought they were. They seemed to give my kids the same sort of "I soved it" thrill so at least they're good training for the "real thing"
yes? no?


games in boxes:)

I think its possible to come out of the "niche" and reach other folks.

I sincerely hope that MystOnline / URU manages to do just that.

My kids enjoyed "exploring" Myst long before they were able to understand how to play it. We've tried copies of Myst on all sorts of folks, usually with good results. Many adventure games demand you solve a puzzle before you can go very far. The Myst/Riven model allows you to simply wander good sized areas first, working on puzzles as you get around to them. IMHO, this is less intimidating to first timers, which may explain part of Myst's larger appeal.

I wonder how many adventure gamers began with Humongous or Cyan titles?

My kids are now cheerfully trying out some of our adventure games at their own pace. My 14 yr old refused to play Syberia wiht my Mother, my son, and myself because she didnt want to be "spoiled"

heh. She makes me proud laugh

I hope there are many good games like it out there when she is older.

If Uru does very well, adventure game companies might suddenly find they were popular with the publishing companies again. Whether that would be a good or bad thing, I dont know. Gatorlaw makes good points on the topic.

just my two zorkmids,

Salar

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#124252 - 03/04/03 11:31 PM Re: Why do other genre gamers hate us so much???
Advpuzlov Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 06/05/99
Posts: 2027
Loc: USA
This has been a delightful thread to read, GIRLGEEK. I suspect you didn't realize what interesting ideas and opinions your posting was going to lead to. smile

I play Mahjongg Master as a "thumb twiddler". That's the game where you have to recognize pairs and click them off until none are left. The deal is it is TIMED, and you know how much I dislike timed puzzles. But this is different in that it requires quick scanning of the pile of tiles, immediate recognition of pairs and, if there are three of a kind, which pair will present the greater benefit, and then snappy mouse movement and clicking. This is my version of an "Action Game." So I'm not completely averse to the adrenaline rush which comes with high paced action. It's mostly the killing and maiming I don't care for. Oh, none of my young hotshots have been able to match my scores on Mahjongg Master -- a source of secret glee for me. laugh

However, this thread has forced me to look at my attitude toward the "shoot-em-up" crowd and confess that I have had a feeling of "superiority" because I prefer the "thoughtful" and "mentally demanding" Adventure/Puzzle games. I repent and in the future will strike those thoughts out of my mind as soon as they appear, as I am sure they will. laugh
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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. -- Aristotle

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#124253 - 03/06/03 08:43 AM Re: Why do other genre gamers hate us so much???
Howard the Doc Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 02/08/02
Posts: 368
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
Reading through this thread (and, man, people complained about the verbiage in The Longest Jouney!!) I realize that I do like some of the classic first person shooters (Doom, Quake 1&2) but b/c I have don't have the reflexes/hand-eye coordination to play them straight, I play them in God mode and, therefore, as adventures! I like the searching through corridors for keys, etc and working my way to the next level. I can't tolerate the sustained adrenaline rush of peeking around corners, ducking and shooting. Too spooky and draining for me (I preferred watching my son do this). In God mode I can sit and shoot and move on. It's cheating but it works for me. Now in terms of FPSs and violence, I am a Black Belt and have been teaching Tang Soo Do for 12 years but there is a developed calmness in kata and sparring (moving meditation, if you will) that I can't get into while gaming b/c at the computer only the hands and eyes are involved, not the whole body. But I love puzzles which is why I play adventures and play FPSs and some RPGs with cheat codes (I liked Diablo 1&2 but once I get bogged down at higher levels I quit feeling that I have enjoyed what I played and I have no qualms about moving onto something else. Younger people enjoy the challenge of finishing the game but, certainly, age and accumulated wisdom teach us to set priorities). [BTW - I remember playing Dungeon Master on the Amiga - the first dungeon crawl and having nightmares about blue beasts for weeks!!)
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Not only is the universe stranger than we imagine, it's stranger than we CAN imagine - J.B.S. Haldane
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Games will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no games.

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#124254 - 03/06/03 10:08 PM Re: Why do other genre gamers hate us so much???
Cat in the Hat Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 11/06/00
Posts: 243
Loc: Pennsylvania
We are their destiny. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="cool.gif" />

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