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#129012 - 08/19/03 12:41 AM Lionheart Update (aargh)
Schwab35 Offline
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Registered: 06/23/02
Posts: 2552
Loc: Los Angeles
Well, what started out as an interesting and varied game has degenerated into a Diablo clone.

I can't tell how far I am in the game but it is now non-stop combat. I have been made a Knight Templar and travelled to Montserrat, but the whole way is littered with poison spewing demons, so many that I have to go slow and lure them away in manageable numbers, all the while losing hitpoints due to being constantly poisoned, which makes my fighter feel like a scaredy-cat. frown

Actually it's been non-stop combat since I first left Barcelona, I can't even imagine how a magic caster or archer would handle the way the enemies pounce on you at the speed of light. Hopefully there won't be too much more of this, or the game will end soon, but I'm a little disappointed all the same.
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#129013 - 08/19/03 12:52 AM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
Schwab35 Offline
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Registered: 06/23/02
Posts: 2552
Loc: Los Angeles
Oh, and here's the first review from Gamespot:

Lionheart review

Their score: 6.5/10
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#129014 - 08/19/03 03:46 AM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
nickie Offline
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Registered: 01/08/02
Posts: 13453
Loc: Texas
Sorry to hear that it is disappointing, Schwab, especially since I enjoyed my brief look at Barcelona. I wonder if this occurs no matter what faction you join.
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#129015 - 08/19/03 03:54 AM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
Zanthia Offline
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Registered: 11/01/99
Posts: 9329
Loc: ex-new yorker
thats a shame that the game turns into what sounds like good old hack n slash. i wonder if it will be like that for the rest of the game or will it ease up after a while.
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#129016 - 08/20/03 01:32 AM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
hagatha Offline
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Registered: 11/19/00
Posts: 4377
Loc: West Vancouver, B.C. Canada
I'm still in Barcelona, but I'm not having a huge amount of trouble combat wise, with my thiefy/mage type. I just batted down all of the Huge Skellies without having to use too many healing potions.

My only question is, at what level do I start getting more spells? I have the basic four Thought Magic spells, but I wouldn't mind having a couple of area spells.

Anyway so far I'm enjoying the game. I've read a few posts on the Black Isle Board that make me think a lot of people were expecting this to be another Baldur's Gate. Well, it ain't. But it is fun.
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#129017 - 08/20/03 02:22 AM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
popcorneater Offline
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Registered: 08/30/02
Posts: 11557
Loc: Virginia
Where and what is Black Isle-I know I know, shouldn't ask; but when in the dark..
Ingie
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#129018 - 08/20/03 03:57 AM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
Zanthia Offline
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Registered: 11/01/99
Posts: 9329
Loc: ex-new yorker
ingie, of course you should ask.

black isle is the RPG division of interplay. interplay is kind of like the rpg version of dreamcatcher( the adventure company). interplay over the past few years has put out more rpg's than any other company.
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#129019 - 08/20/03 04:16 AM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
Schwab35 Offline
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Registered: 06/23/02
Posts: 2552
Loc: Los Angeles
However, Lionheart was designed by Reflexive under the aegis of Black Isle, so that would explain why the game becomes wall to wall combat, I guess since they've never made an RPG before.


Hagatha, can't help you with the magic since my fighter only uses one kind of healing spell. I have gotten to the point where another spell in that same realm shows up at levelling up time, but it's grayed out and I can't put points in it.
The manual does nothing to explain this, either.

If you're still in and around Barcelona you haven't started the main quest yet, and that is when the game suddenly shifts to non-stop combat.
I wasn't really expecting Baldur's Gate, but the game is not nearly as complex as they said it would be.
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#129020 - 08/20/03 06:41 AM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
popcorneater Offline
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Registered: 08/30/02
Posts: 11557
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Thanks Zanthia wave :kiss:
Ingie laugh
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#129021 - 08/20/03 06:51 AM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
Debra Offline
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Registered: 05/30/99
Posts: 2210
Loc: Central Texas
Hagatha, I'm playing my usual battlemage/thief
character and I think Schwab is right you need
to be more of a tank. Combat is pretty hard here.
I'm in with the lava troll section now and I'm dying left and right. I even took fire evasion
as a perk to help, but I'm not a great fighter
so there's the rub.
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#129022 - 08/20/03 01:01 PM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
oldman Offline
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Registered: 04/15/00
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This news does not a happy camper make. I included Lionheart and Timeline to my Runaway order so that I could get 2 day shipping for the same price thinking that Lionheart would be a good RPG to alternate with. Now these comments are bringing me down.

Hmmmmm by the time I get to it maybe a cheat??????????? After all I am somewhat combat challenged.

The good news is that I did make it through Diablo without a cheat so maybe........
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#129023 - 08/20/03 01:41 PM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
nickie Offline
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Schwab, did you do a lot of the side quests available in Barcelona before you left?
Oldman, don't be discouraged yet. Although the reviewer gave it a low score, the people playing it gave it a 7.5. I'm not far enough into the game to know how difficult it will be for my character, but there are so many choices to make, both with character creation and in regard to which path you take, that I wouldn't be surprised if there are differing opinions on the game. But then again, maybe not lol
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#129024 - 08/20/03 02:46 PM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
Zanthia Offline
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Registered: 11/01/99
Posts: 9329
Loc: ex-new yorker
it does sound like a combat oriented character is the way to go in lionheart.
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#129025 - 08/20/03 03:31 PM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
popcorneater Offline
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Registered: 08/30/02
Posts: 11557
Loc: Virginia
Mine came; happydance I'm loaded and now drawn
take a peek at Lionheart or finish my Main Quest?
Decisions, decisons <img border="0" alt="woozy" title="" src="graemlins/woozy.gif" />
Ingie laugh
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#129026 - 08/20/03 04:25 PM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
rick Offline
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Registered: 09/22/99
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I could tell from the demo that the combat in Lionheart was Diablo-esque. What a disappointment.
Why doesn't anyone make any RPG's like Baldur's Gate anymore? It was so popular one would think they made a lot of money on those games and would want to continue. I don't understand it.
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#129027 - 08/20/03 05:39 PM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
popcorneater Offline
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Registered: 08/30/02
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Loc: Virginia
Well I went in a took a peek see.
I chose to create my own character, I need to read more, but I just wanted to try a few things out.
There is a variety of choosing and it explains what the point system is and how it works. Which I liked. I thought it explained things well.
Of course, I didn't play but a little bit, again need to read to see what's what, but I loved the voices and sound, not sure I like being at such a distance, but that reminds me of DD, whih I loved, and I've been playing Morrowind-so major difference.
I have a long sword, which I like and can use magic which I love. Looks like most games, you have to get use to the skills and level up.
Going back to Morrowind, but still excited about Lionheart.
Ingie laugh
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#129028 - 08/20/03 07:10 PM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
hagatha Offline
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Registered: 11/19/00
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Actually, respecting the need for tank skils, my thief does have 50 in one-handed melee weapons, and every now and then I put more points into this. So she can give a good whack when it's needed. At the moment I am stocking up on sneaking points so that I can acquire that all important Backstab, which gives 50% increased damage.

I'm about to tackle the Fire Trolls - I ran into them a while back, took a couple of good looks and left. I've done quite a few of the Barcelona quests so at level 7 (or maybe 8 by the time I get to them) I feel ready for the trolls. I suspect that an ice-based spell would work best.

However, I must be completely stoopid, because I can't find the Beggars to complete the Thieves quest...I've killed one Beggar, but that's it - I was expecting the rest to just attack, but nobody did.
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#129029 - 08/20/03 08:00 PM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
hagatha Offline
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I'm finding the Lava Trolls pretty easy. I've developed a technique that works well. Because the spells have to recharge between uses, the way to handle combat as a caster is cast spell, melee hit, cast spell, melee hit, and so on. Once I have the Backstab skill, the first hit will obviously be melee, then spell. With the protection spell that comes with the Thought Magic skill, that was enough to take care of the Trolls (at least so far unless I run into a grandaddy Troll).
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#129030 - 08/20/03 09:23 PM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
Schwab35 Offline
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Registered: 06/23/02
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Nickie, I'm pretty sure I did all the quests I could except for the ones for opposing factions, of course. I don't feel like my character is under-experienced, it's just that where I'm at in the game is just fight after fight after fight and the quests are just not there anymore, nor is there any character interaction or roleplaying after the first parts of the game.

Rick, I would imagine it takes a lot of time, effort, and resources to create RPG's on the level of BG, and with companies in the financial state they're in, they find it more lucrative to create Diablo-esque games.
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"Your voice is Ambroooosia"

Playing: World of Warcraft; Geneforge 3

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#129031 - 08/21/03 03:38 AM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
nickie Offline
Grand wizard of high mucky muck
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Registered: 01/08/02
Posts: 13453
Loc: Texas
Darn it, Schwab, I was hoping you would say you hadn't. Hope the game gets better for you.
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- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

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#129032 - 08/21/03 06:19 AM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
Schwab35 Offline
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Registered: 06/23/02
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Loc: Los Angeles
Well, to be fair, I just hit the port town of Montaillou tonight and there is some more questing and interesting roleplaying decisions, and that was pretty fun. I finished all that and am back on the non-stop combat track, I presume to the end of the game.
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#129033 - 08/21/03 07:36 AM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
Debra Offline
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Registered: 05/30/99
Posts: 2210
Loc: Central Texas
I restarted the game for the third time taking a Feralkin character using the aggressive spirit
and 2 handed melee. Combat is decidely easier
and I added studious thinker and skilled to my
skills when I created him. I call him The Bull laugh
Here I go again!
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#129034 - 08/21/03 12:14 PM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
Soozie Offline
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Registered: 12/21/00
Posts: 1743
Loc: Quincy, MA USA
I just received my copy of Lionheart along with the Bonus Level and Cards. Won't be starting it for another week, gotta finish TRII and its expansion.

I did take a look ... kinda nice. Will be watching for your experiences and choices ... might give me a push in the right direction. I always favor a fighter, but maybe not this time ... we'll see.

smile
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#129035 - 08/21/03 05:34 PM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
nickie Offline
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Registered: 01/08/02
Posts: 13453
Loc: Texas
Hi Soozie! If you like to hear sarcastic wit, you may want to pick the demonic spirit to aid your character. The other two are just as helpful, but apparently not funny.
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#129036 - 08/22/03 07:03 AM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
Debra Offline
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Registered: 05/30/99
Posts: 2210
Loc: Central Texas
I haven't heard much at all from my bestial spirit, but the games going much better with The Bull now. He can clear a room out! I also took
Smite Mastery.
Hagatha, many thanks for the tip on the search
skill for money as that's been a big help, too.
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#129037 - 08/22/03 06:45 PM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
hagatha Offline
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Registered: 11/19/00
Posts: 4377
Loc: West Vancouver, B.C. Canada
And with that search skill, as you allocate points to it, you keep on finding more and more stuff, even in areas you've been in before.

I seem to have annoyed one of the guards in the Gate area - every time I talk to him he attacks. Hmmm...wonder why? It may be because I inadvertently released that Demon thingy in the Inquisition cellars. I think I'm going to go back there and take care of the Grand Inqusitor as that faction is just plain evil - this would be in character as I have joined the Wielders for moral reasons. My character may be a thieving, unfaithful (Will and Juanita) sneak, but she's a morally upstanding thieving sneak.
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#129038 - 08/22/03 06:55 PM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
Schwab35 Offline
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Registered: 06/23/02
Posts: 2552
Loc: Los Angeles
My fighter is at level 24 now in a huge crypt outside of Montaillou. He longs for the halcyon days in Barcelona when he could just walk around looking for treasure on the ground...
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#129039 - 08/23/03 12:34 AM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
hagatha Offline
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Registered: 11/19/00
Posts: 4377
Loc: West Vancouver, B.C. Canada
I wonder if my thief will make it that far? Mind you, she is hardly truly thiefy with 80 in one-handed so far, and more points going in there all the time. I'm just doing the outside of Barcelona quests and still not finding it too hard - doing a bit more sneaking than before.
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#129040 - 08/23/03 08:08 AM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
Debra Offline
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Registered: 05/30/99
Posts: 2210
Loc: Central Texas
Help! I stole the chalice and got caught (Inquisition area chest) and now all the guards
are attacking me and my mana is drained totally
away in areas here. Is there a way to stop mana
drain? I have gone so far and done so much I don't want to go back to a previous save.
Also, what's the best plan for killing the Lava
Troll Master? He's eating my lunch, too. mad <img border="0" alt="cry" title="" src="graemlins/cry.gif" /> eek
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#129041 - 08/23/03 10:24 AM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
hagatha Offline
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Registered: 11/19/00
Posts: 4377
Loc: West Vancouver, B.C. Canada
I'm not sure what the Chalice is for - I have it too, - must be a quest for somebody else. Are the guards upstairs attacking you as well? Once I freed Faust and the other prisoner the guards on the lower levels of the Inquisition were hostile but the ones upstairs were oblivious. So I just did away with the guards I had to kill, and I think I would still have been able to join the Inquisition had I wanted to.

I managed to kill the Lava Troll Master with a combination of Ice Magic (Ice Bolt) and one-handed sword. I ran into him unexpectedly and was quite happy to have 6-7 health points left at the end of the fight.
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#129042 - 08/23/03 08:56 PM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
Debra Offline
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Registered: 05/30/99
Posts: 2210
Loc: Central Texas
I finally killed the Lava Troll using Smite and
health potients. I think it was an accident because I still can't remember my strategy laugh
I'm now about to attempt to fight Khan in the
goblin village area, but I'm going to give it a rest for the night. I'm at level 14 now and I like
my Feralkin character, The Bull. He's a smart
ogre-type kinda guy.
Schwab, I'm worried. The fighting is hard enough
now so I can't imagine what it's like where you are.
Oh, and one more thing. I can't find Enrique the
Begger leader. Does anyone remember where he was
on the Begger side?
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#129043 - 08/23/03 09:04 PM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
Schwab35 Offline
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Registered: 06/23/02
Posts: 2552
Loc: Los Angeles
Debra, it sounds like we have similar characters: two-handed melee fighters and I can only tell you to just get used to sucking up damage from now on. Carry plenty of health potions and concentrate on healing magic with a little buffing spell or two.

Also, keep some scrolls of protection (cold, fire, electricity, acid) as they really do help.

Enrique is in the hall of beggars map, he is on a little spot on the very south central part of the map.

Khan is a toughie but if you avoid him at first and go straight west to the next map there is a bounty hunter/merchant who has the perfect weapon...
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Playing: World of Warcraft; Geneforge 3

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#129044 - 08/23/03 10:27 PM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
hagatha Offline
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Registered: 11/19/00
Posts: 4377
Loc: West Vancouver, B.C. Canada
I think the combat does require strategey as well as muscle, because my thief with strength 4 is doing just fine. I'm in the Ogre caves right now and am plowing my way through them with no real problem. Sneak, hit and run is my motto. Same as always - see if you can lure one of the enemy into following you away from the rest, then attack. I'm finding that most of the enemies won't follow you too far before they turn back - a useful thing if you need to heal up. A fighter could benefit from the Sneak ability as well as a thief can because I'm not finding that the backstab function does much damage anyway - the surprise attack sometimes scores a knockdown or one of those special +125 hits, which is great for the old attack and retreat.

I ran out of health potions a long time ago and gave myself a few points in the healing spell so I don't have to go and fold laundry or make a bed while my demokin is healing. But high Sneak combined with 65 in Fire Magic and 110 in one-handed has done just fine so far except for a couple of the bosses, where I needed lots of extra healing potions and a bit of luck.
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#129045 - 08/24/03 09:19 AM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
Debra Offline
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Registered: 05/30/99
Posts: 2210
Loc: Central Texas
Question about that weapon, The Everlasting, I didn't have the money to buy it when he offered
and now he's quit offering. I took on the Shaman
bounty quest for him. Will he offer again or do
I have to try and kill them to get it? I wish there was a money cheat that weapon would really help out.
Hagatha, I really agree with you on the strategy
thing. You have to learn lots of ways to deal with these enemies. Even with a 9 strength you can't just roll in and roll over some of these
characters.
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#129046 - 08/24/03 11:54 AM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
hagatha Offline
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Registered: 11/19/00
Posts: 4377
Loc: West Vancouver, B.C. Canada
My thief took on the Khan a few levels back by using the fire barrels. As she had relatively poor sneak ability at that time, she just got as close as possible and then ran around dropping barrels. Once all the minions were dead, she took on the Khan. Used up all my extra healing potions, though, and about 6 fire barrels. If you don't have any of these pick some up at the bookseller's store - special stock items.
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#129047 - 08/24/03 02:31 PM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
hagatha Offline
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Registered: 11/19/00
Posts: 4377
Loc: West Vancouver, B.C. Canada
As I play on, I have to say I don't understand all the bad press about this game.

I'm having a great time. There's a lot of criticism about it being mostly combat in the second part of the game. While that's true, the first part of the game was pretty Baldur's Gate-ish, and the second half is remindng me very much of Icewind Dale2. Now how can that be a bad thing? I'll be playing this one again as a spellcaster just to see if I can do it.

I'm giving it an 8 out of 10 (so far). For comparison's sake, I would give NWN (the original saga) a 7.5 out of 10.
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#129048 - 08/24/03 04:30 PM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
Schwab35 Offline
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Registered: 06/23/02
Posts: 2552
Loc: Los Angeles
Debra, I never did a quest for the bounty hunter and just bought the weapon right away (still using it BTW) so I don't know why he would stop offering it.

Hagatha, I have to admire your generosity, I give LH no more than a 5 out of 10 simply because it offers so little.

I wouldn't compare this to IWD2 since that game is party based and much more strategic, plus it uses D&D rules, plus the gameplay is much more consistent and was always billed as a mostly combat game.
Lionheart is single character (companions are available but you have absolutely no control over them and they leave as soon as their quest is done) and combat is tedious and repetitive...the crypt I'm in has about 75-100 enemies per level.

Also, there are little annoyances that really add up, like the map function (no notes, cannot re-size, no in-game mini map), the clumsy interface (no single character sheet, small # of quickslots, one spell only selected), combat speed (enemies run but your char cannot, impossible to target while paused, hard to target enemies at all while they're moving like the wind, no to mention multiple enemies).

I can see how someone not expecting much might appreciate what the game does offer, but the people who were waiting for it and paid $50 got something considerably less than what was promised: an epic RPG with lots of freedom and varied gameplay for all different types of characters and a gameworld that responded tangibly to player actions.

I don't want to sound like one of the Official Forum whiners, these are really my own impressions from playing so far and I'm getting to the point where I just want it to be over.
I play for maybe an hour or two then switch over to Wizardry 8 which is much more interesting for me.
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Playing: World of Warcraft; Geneforge 3

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#129049 - 08/24/03 08:34 PM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
Debra Offline
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Registered: 05/30/99
Posts: 2210
Loc: Central Texas
I'm on the Monserrat road and it is very tough.
I thought I'd just run past the tons of enemies
near the castle (which I though would be a place
of R&R) and buy some potients from a merchant there only to find it too was swarming with enemies. My spells don't seem as effective as they were and neither does The Everlasting.
My opinion is that it has to little RPG and too
much action for my taste, but I will try to get
though it.
I wish you could put notes on the map and that it
marked places entrances and exits if nothing else.
I wish you had the ability to do turn based combat or that your enemies didn't gang up on you
at warp drive.
I have moved 4 of my favorite spells into quick slots which helps me get more bang for my buck,
but again things just move too fast for me to be
very strategic in the thick of things.
Well, if wishes were horses beggers would ride.
Good luck to all and to all a good night.
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#129050 - 08/24/03 11:46 PM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
hagatha Offline
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Registered: 11/19/00
Posts: 4377
Loc: West Vancouver, B.C. Canada
I've finally found something that I can't do just yet - the battle in the Nostradamus cave. My usual hit and run won't work here and I can't sneak, which isn't REALLY fair, given that my thief skills are the best ones I have. Unbuffed I got about halfway through the battle - better buy some buffing spells!
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#129051 - 08/25/03 12:21 AM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
hagatha Offline
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Whew! Got through it after all. I keep forgetting about those vampirism potions. That one was a bit dicey, through. I need to decide whether to put the rest of my skill points into magic or melee.
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#129052 - 08/25/03 04:40 PM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
Debra Offline
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Hagatha where are the Nostradamus caves? Are you passed Monserrat?
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#129053 - 08/25/03 07:27 PM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
hagatha Offline
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I'm just doing the Montilliu quests (not sure of the spelling) - the first place you go to in France after you get through the mountains when you are looking for the relic that has been stolen. The Nostradamus area is one of the map areas that you are given in that village. One of the vllagers (I believe it is the witch) gives you the map location.
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#129054 - 08/26/03 12:17 AM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
Schwab35 Offline
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Well, Harold finally made it out of the crypt (that's the name of the char I chose, Harold Ruthgar) and it was pretty horrible, constant fighting with plenty of retreating to try and isolate revenants from succubi from shrieking terrors from giant skellies from... well, you get it by now.

Oh, just wait till you meet the revenants...


Level 29 now and I just picked up a perk that raised my agility to 8 so I'm noticeably faster, Thank God.

Debra, I found it helps to play with the "target" option, it has a slider that adjusts how your fighter tries to target enemies. He can go "hectic" meaning he swings a lot faster but misses more, or go "planned" meaning he swings a lot slower but always hits and I think gets more criticals.
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#129055 - 08/26/03 07:06 AM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
Debra Offline
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I'm definately behind you guys. I've been using
the targeting feature on planned for the harder
monsters and quick for low level groups. I think
I'm going to have to go back to Barcelona for more
healing potients cause I keep having to use so many and there is no merchant in site. Where's
the next merchant you get to?
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#129056 - 08/26/03 05:34 PM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
hagatha Offline
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I'm just in the midst of the Crypt myself. Now that I have two levels of backstab and a one-handed ability of 135, I've perfected the art of backstab and run (out the door and up the stairs)! That first guardian was one tough cookie, but the second one was just a big tub of lard. Revenants are a pain, but again hit and run is my motto. Actually I'm finding those frozen screamer things to be the worst but they too can be run away from. It seems that my thieving abilities are high enough for the time being (all of my perks have been thief related) as I haven't run across a chest orr trap I couldn't handle for a long time so I'll just concentrate on magic, evasion, diplomacy and one-handed for a while. My biggest problem right now is that regenerating demon standing outside the town. He may just have to wait for a while.
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#129057 - 08/26/03 05:36 PM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
hagatha Offline
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In answer to your question about the merchants (sorry, I meant to answer that) there is always the one at the crossroads; there's two in Barcelona, there's three in Montaillou, one in the mountain area (although I don't think he has potions)- those are the ones I can think of off-hand. There is usually one fairly nearby and you can always use the blue crystals to get to the crossroads.
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#129058 - 08/26/03 09:39 PM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
hagatha Offline
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Woo-hoo! Ivory Mace plus 2 levels of backstab = dead undead!

Now if I could only figure out how to kill that demon outside of town...
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#129059 - 08/26/03 11:17 PM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
Schwab35 Offline
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That's weird Hagatha, I killed that daeva before even hitting the crypts. I assume you have the necklace that prevents his shapeshifting?
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#129060 - 08/26/03 11:26 PM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
hagatha Offline
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I do. But last time I tried him I had yet to do the Crypts and the Nostradamus quests, and not only am I several levels higher now, my strategic skills are much sharper, having had to cope with Revenants, Assassins and the like. So perhaps next time I tackle him it won't be so hard. That's what happened with the Khan - he seemed impossible the first try, and dead easy the second.

I think one of the reasons I'm enjoying this game in spite of all the combat is the fact that I'm playing a thief-based character rather than a straight fighter. I'm having to be a lot more creative than I might otherwise. Whether my character will stand up to the rest of the game remains to be seen, but so far, so good (with the odd reload). And anyway, even Baldur's Gate seemed impossibly difficult the first time I played it, so maybe this one will be easier next time. Now that I know what's useful and what isn't (i.e 90 points wasted in Ice magic) my next go-round will probably be less laborious.
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#129061 - 08/26/03 11:29 PM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
Schwab35 Offline
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IF I were to replay this game, I would have a fighter/mage. But that's a pretty big IF.
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#129062 - 08/27/03 03:24 AM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
Zanthia Offline
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Schwab, fighter mage you say. thats the type of character i would want to play.

schwab, hagatha-- questions on character creation:

what elemental magic would you say is best--fire, lightning or ice.

what about weapons: one handed or two handed.

any suggestions for what skills, traits and perks to take or ones to avoid.

does the spirit you take make a big difference
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#129063 - 08/27/03 04:52 AM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
Schwab35 Offline
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Zanthia, I can't help much since I picked a pre-made character who doesn't use any magic other than tribal/protective spells. Plus I automatically got the Tribal spirit.

There aren't too many good/unique weapons in the game, you will come across a lot of the same types. Two-handed is what I use but it's been tough not being able to use a shield.

If you've played Fallout you know what the good perks are, but I'll tell you right now, Diplomacy is only useful early in the game.

I've heard archer/mages are really effective, apparently high archery skill causes a lot of damage (wish I knew that before).

Something else I wish I had was more magic resistance, you will come across some potent magic using enemies...
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#129064 - 08/27/03 02:30 PM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
Debra Offline
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O.K. let's talk about those Dark Inquisitors shall
we? I have been trying for an hour to kill more
than one of them and getting clobbered.
I am using my poor one hand skills so I can use
my electrical shield, wearing my resistance to
elec/fire helmet and my mace with acid damage and
slow added. I have used exorcism, and celestial
might and righteous fury. No go frown
Suggestions?
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#129065 - 08/27/03 07:42 PM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
Schwab35 Offline
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I recall a quest you get from an inquisitor in some outdoor zone, is that the one you're at Debra?
I was confused by this one, the inquisitor joined as a companion but wouldn't follow me.
I went to the circle of evil inquisies and they went down rather quickly, I barely had to hit them and they went down. I think the good inquisitor was helping me from afar but I couldn't tell since he was still in his original position.

Magic using enemies are generally low on HP so I suggest using your best two handed weapon and any scrolls/potions of magic resistance you can buy.
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#129066 - 08/28/03 03:07 AM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
Zanthia Offline
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schwab, after my horrible experience with archery in NWN, i don't think i want to deal with archery in lionheart.

it sems like a lot of you are running out of heal potions and from what i hear it takes a while to just sit there to regenerate health.

since the later part of the game is so combat oriented, i am thinking of using the demokin class with the vampire trait so every hit gives you health back but the down side is that health potions will not work as well.
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#129067 - 08/28/03 04:18 AM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
Schwab35 Offline
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That sounds like a good idea Zanthia, I've heard that Vampire trait is quite useful.

The merchants don't seem to have a lot of health potions on hand at any one time, and you don't get a lot of them off the ground, but one trick is to buy all available potions from merchants, leave the zone, re-enter, and they should have replenished their stock. Cheesy, but sometimes necessary.
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#129068 - 08/28/03 07:01 AM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
Debra Offline
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I spend every nickle on health potients and spirit
potients. There is a trainer out now and I think
I'm going to adjust some of my character's weaknesses. I thought Icewind Dale's combat was
hard.....
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#129069 - 08/28/03 07:26 PM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
hagatha Offline
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Zanthia - from what I'm seeing, I would recommend Fire Magic, because ice magic takes up way too much mana. I have heard that later in the game there are fire-resistant enemies, but so far so good. I have used perks and amulets, etc to increase the power of my Fire damage. But my experience is based only on THought Magic. Some of the Combat and Tribal Magic skills look pretty useful, but you can really only focus on one or two if you want to get skilled enough to do real damage at higher levels.

You really need good one or two handed skills, I'm learning. And by good I mean 200+ towards the end of the game. At 145 in one-handed, my character is holding her own so far, but I am putting a lot more points in there as soon as I can. In the Crypts there is a one-handed weapon that truly evens the score against the hordes of undead. Also, because I am playing a thief, who is relatively low in strength (OK she's a weakling) having a high one-handed score really helps, especially with backstabbing.

Stealth has been one of the most useful skills I have.

SOme people are swearing by archery skills, but I've also heard that because the enemy attacks so quickly, archers get swarmed and thus the skill is less useful than it might be in another game. I use the Fire spells instead - my character has virtually no archery skills at all. It's just as easy to shoot a powerful Fireball spell at an enemy.

Evasions skills are a must. At 65 my character is able to evade 8% of the blows and has an increased armour of 13. I am going to raise this skill as much as I can, too.

Speech skills are also useful, giving you an alternative to fighting in some quests. And aparently if this skill is high enough you can avoid the final battle.

You can get perks that increase your healing rate so I don't actually spend a lot of time standing around. And even the lowest level healing spell is helpful in this regard. I think there are also perks that increase your mana regeneration as well.
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#129070 - 08/29/03 12:20 AM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
ray Offline
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Diablo in Alternate Europe.

Now that I'm warned, and know to play as a tank, perhaps I'll enjoy the game. But I'm also very disappointed in what I'm hearing.

Remember, Bioware was more responsible for Baldurs Gate than Black Isle. BI has done some great stuff, though, most notably Planescape: Torment and Icewind Dale.
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#129071 - 08/29/03 12:50 AM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
hagatha Offline
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You don't actually need to play a tank. My little thief has strength 4 buffed to 5, and with a double backstab perk and a good one-handed skill plus good thief skills (and some fire magic)she's doing ok. Nobody has defeated me completely yet. It's taken me a looooong time to get through the Crypts, but I've levelled up so many times in there I'm still enjoying it, dreaded Revenants and all. I think I've gone from level 21 to level 28 and counting, and that's a lot of skill points! I would definitely recommend that whatever character you create, they have good one-handed (I think the weapons are better) and good evasion. Of course you can reputedly talk your way through a lot of the game, but what fun would that be? I forgot to mention intelligence earlier - high intelligence dictates the number of skill points you get each level up, so it's a good thing.

I do think that the game should be a bit less combat-oriented, though. It could have been great and instead is merely enjoyable. But while the professional naysayers on the Official forum would have everyone believe that the game developers should be hung, drawn and quartered, I feel like I got pretty much what the package said I would be getting.
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#129072 - 08/29/03 02:21 AM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
Zanthia Offline
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thanks Hagatha for all that info.
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#129073 - 09/01/03 07:23 AM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
Debra Offline
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I'm in the Druid Castle and I've had to resort to
god mode. I would never make it through. They should have had an easy combat choice instead of
just nightmare mode.
Even in god mode you have to stand toe to toe and
just solidly duke it out for 5 minutes on those
English captains. frown
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#129074 - 09/01/03 12:20 PM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
Zanthia Offline
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Debra,

are you using a trainer for god mode, if so which one? i believe there are 2 out for the game. as much as i hate to use cheats for an rpg i have a feeling the latter part of this game i will need one.
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#129075 - 09/01/03 01:31 PM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
hagatha Offline
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The English are a shock after the Crypt because all of a sudden you're surrounded by enemies that are much harder than you are generally accustomed to! Also, my Sneak abilities don't work quite as well, which is no problem since I have bracers that up my Sneak by 20. But I had got to the point where I could meet the enemies in the Crypt pretty much head on, after a Sneak backstab, and the English were another kettle of fish entirely. The English soldiers also apparently have no souls, apparently...wonder if that was a little joke?...so mana was scarcer. But the old backstab, Fire circle and run technique works wonders and I have those Limeys on the run. I've been working on Barcelona for a while.

I had heard that a generalist character would not work but in reality that's what I have. So far I'm doing OK but time will tell - those Druids sound pretty nasty.

Does anyone know where the last 2 Green Ways Crystals are? I hope I haven't missed one. Those are essential for the character bonuses they provide, plus I hate those unfinished quests.
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#129076 - 09/01/03 09:26 PM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
Schwab35 Offline
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Hagatha, I found one of those big crystals in the Druid Shrine, but it doesn't sound like you're there yet.

Wow Debra, you are going very fast, soon you will be where I am (just hit the desert) but then again I haven't been playing more than an hour or so at a time before I get bored.
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#129077 - 09/01/03 09:47 PM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
hagatha Offline
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That's good. I was hoping I'd find them all since I didn't find all of the books.

I'm in the Druid Keep right now. I can't believe how quickly the level ups happen in here. Just when I think my character isn't sneaky enough or doesn't have enough fire power, along comes another level or perk. I only hope that 210 in one-handed and 125 in Fire Magic is enough to handle whatever is coming down the turnpike. I've given up on diplomacy - it wasn't any use in the middle part of the game and so got neglected. There is a perk that will give me another 15 or 20 points in speech and I think I have a pair of braces that give 10. That will get me up to about 160. Hope that's enough.
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#129078 - 09/01/03 11:46 PM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
Schwab35 Offline
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Just hit another of the green crystals in the second zone of the desert...didn't do me much good but you should be happy with the bonuses Hagatha...

My fighter has 235 two-handed, 160 evasion, 70 Tribal magic and assorted points in thief skills and this is at level 37. I wish now that I didn't waste points in the thief skills since none of the locked chests had anything of real value.

I have to do the old "lure and run" with the scorpions, they are very dangerous...
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#129079 - 09/02/03 12:03 AM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
hagatha Offline
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Sounds good.

I wish I had put more points into evasion and sneak and less into lockpicking and Ice Magic. 145 in lockpick is obviously more than you need, especially with all those potions around. The only time I have ever used ice magic is against Fire Trolls and Fire Golems, and I didn't need 90 points in it for that! I can think of about 150 skill points I would have put elsewhere if I had known.
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#129080 - 09/02/03 03:56 AM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
Zanthia Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by hagatha:
I can think of about 150 skill points I would have put elsewhere if I had known.
what skills would you have put those points into?
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#129081 - 09/02/03 07:10 AM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
Debra Offline
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Here's the link to the trainer I am using. It
alters mana, skill points, healing rate and gold.
http://www.avault.com/cheats_new/cheat_temp.asp?source=lionheart&type=trn1
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#129082 - 09/02/03 07:12 AM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
Debra Offline
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If you have really high diplomacy you don't have
to fight the big monsters.
Those English captains have Druid swords that increase their healing rates. It's almost as if
they have god mode too.
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#129083 - 09/03/03 03:34 AM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
Zanthia Offline
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thanks debra for the link for the trainer that you used.
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#129084 - 09/03/03 12:42 PM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
Soozie Offline
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Okay, guys, I'm ready to start Lionheart. Will have to reread this thread to get some ideas, but will no doubt be crying for help.

Btw, Tomb Raider II was so much fun, did it all.

smile
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#129085 - 09/04/03 11:12 PM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
hagatha Offline
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Re what skills would I have put those points into - Sneak, for a start - at 120 my thief is getting caught a lot since I finished the Crypt. Even with the bracers of Stealthy Cunning, which as another 20 points. Since Backstab is a personal favourite, that would have been smart. But I didn't know my skill wasn't high enough until I finished the Crypt and then all of a sudden it just wasn't good enough any more. Still, yer basic fire magic spell takes the sting out of getting caught.

I would also have put more into Fire Magic, which is great at higher levels (I'm at 55% knockdown on the Fireball) and some into Evasion as well.

Actually Ice magic isn't totally useless as there are lots of those nasty Fire Golems, and they are pretty much immune to Fire, as you would guess.

Don't know if I would put more in Diplomacy, which is at 110 right now. I know that won't be enough to avoid the final showdown, but for most of the last half of the game there isn't much to say, so I'm probably better off putting those points into one-handed (and that combined with 100 backstab takes out most of the non-magical enemies around and causes some grief even to Golems).
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#129086 - 09/04/03 11:14 PM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
hagatha Offline
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Oh yes - bear in mind that many of the perks give you 15 or 20 points in a particular skill as well, and so they are very useful. And also bear in mind that at a certain point the higher level skill takes two and even three skill points for every point gained - somewhere around 125 points, I think.
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#129087 - 09/05/03 12:30 AM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
hagatha Offline
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Level 39 and counting! I've missed a few points, but not many. I didn't finish the book quest, and I forgot to go back and finish off all of the enemies in the Nostradamus quest, but basically I've killed everything that moves and done all the quests I could find. Now at One-handed 230 points and fire magic at 140, I can deal out some real damage, although I'm not sure my character really qualifies as a thief any more. In fact I've ended up with the dreaded generalist character. We'll see when we get to that final battle, which is probably coming up pretty soon, as I am now slaughtering Scorcpions in the desert.
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#129088 - 09/05/03 01:19 AM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
Schwab35 Offline
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Hagatha, you are nearing the end but still have a boss battle and then the whole of Alamut to go through (including the dreaded Acid Wash level).

I am on the last level before the final battle and just so tired. I don't know if my fighter will survive the final fight, I may have to cheat or just quit at that point.
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#129089 - 09/05/03 02:24 AM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
Zanthia Offline
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there is some great info in this thread thanks to Hagatha, Schwab and Debra. I am going to have to read all these great tips before i start.

Schwab, if you are that close to the end and if your fighter can't handle it, i would think that cheating would be better than quitting. At least than you can say you completed it. after all this you should see the end.
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#129090 - 09/05/03 06:59 AM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
Debra Offline
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I'm at that last fight and I have to turn around and go back because I didn't do something that will make it easier. Even cheating that last battle is a doozy.
SPOILER NEXT BEWARE!!


You have to keep 2 people and
yourself alive while you beat off hoards and a big boss. What a fair and balanced game.
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#129091 - 09/05/03 03:35 PM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
Debra Offline
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Loc: Central Texas
I finished - cheating all the way. I have played all the Diablos and Icewind Dale 1 and 2 with one
mod and never have I had such hard combat. The setting of the game was interesting, but the rest of it was too hard and pretty boring. Oh, and the ending was the pits. I've already uninstalled the stinker. I have my fingers crossed for The Temple of Elemental Evil.
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Skyrim: Divorce and ended relationships not included. May induce expulsion to couch for an indefinite period of time. Say no to skooma.

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#129092 - 09/05/03 03:37 PM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
Zanthia Offline
BAAG Specialist

Registered: 11/01/99
Posts: 9329
Loc: ex-new yorker
debra, so if you had to rate the game on a score of 1-100 what would you give it.
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#129093 - 09/05/03 03:39 PM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
Debra Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 05/30/99
Posts: 2210
Loc: Central Texas
I'd say about a 40. It really had promise, but
talk about failing in execution. Sheesh!
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#129094 - 09/05/03 07:19 PM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
popcorneater Offline
Adept Boomer

Registered: 08/30/02
Posts: 11557
Loc: Virginia
Drat frown
Ingie
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#129095 - 09/05/03 08:09 PM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
Debra Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 05/30/99
Posts: 2210
Loc: Central Texas
Ingie, it may be something that you would like.
You know different strokes for different folks.
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Skyrim: Divorce and ended relationships not included. May induce expulsion to couch for an indefinite period of time. Say no to skooma.

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#129096 - 09/05/03 08:42 PM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
hagatha Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 11/19/00
Posts: 4377
Loc: West Vancouver, B.C. Canada
It will be interesting to see at what point my character fails me...each new type of enemy gives me that "oh-oh" feeling, but then I figure something out. I have reserved 25 Fire Barrels and will go back for more before I leave the desert. Those are pretty handy in a bad fight. Drop five of those and most enemies are at least badly wounded. Sure gets their attention, though. However, I am now putting all of my skill points into Fire Magic and one-handed, so at least I have some fire power. For some reason my Sneak skill seems to be working for me again.
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#129097 - 09/06/03 12:08 AM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
hagatha Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 11/19/00
Posts: 4377
Loc: West Vancouver, B.C. Canada
Huh? I tried the Dragon in the Desert first by using my 23 skill points to raise my Speech to 85 and adding 15 more Speech and and a couple of Charisma points with armour and stuff, and was able to talk my way through; then I thought I'd try to see how many speech points you REALLY need to get past him so I didn't have to spend those valuable skill points all on Speech.

Well, you need more than 85 total skill points in Speech, it seems, but in the process of finding that out I found that the dragon is...really easy to kill. Using my Fire Sword (whatever it's called) that I bought from the desert merchant, I just pounded away at that dragon, and I guess the only thing he has going for him offense-wise is bad breath, because he didn't make a dent in my little weeny thief wearing her leather armour and no Fire Protection potions, while she bashed him into the ground with no magic at all. Curious.

I'm not sure about this reputed Acid stuff, though - I've never found anything that gives acid protection other than potions.
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#129098 - 09/06/03 04:01 AM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
Schwab35 Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 06/23/02
Posts: 2552
Loc: Los Angeles
My fighter's speech skill was a whopping 17 so no sweet talk would work.
I noticed that fire sword, Hagatha, but I had all my points in two-handed so I didn't get it.
It really sounds like one-handed is much more effective, especially since (I assume) you were using a shield. My two-handed fighter kept getting knocked down by that big lizard and it was my helper, the Saladin from the desert, who managed to somehow get underneath the dragon and never got hit. Weird.
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#129099 - 09/06/03 12:30 PM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
Zanthia Offline
BAAG Specialist

Registered: 11/01/99
Posts: 9329
Loc: ex-new yorker
Wow debra a 40 is really low. But i stil intend to see for myself how it is. I just won't have high expectations any more.
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#129100 - 09/06/03 12:59 PM Re: Lionheart Update (aargh)
hagatha Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 11/19/00
Posts: 4377
Loc: West Vancouver, B.C. Canada
I would give it a lot more than 40, myself. In fact, I'm pretty sure I'll be playing this again -I'm thinking unarmed combat/high evasion, which sounds like it can be deadly. My character seems to have all the skills necessary to deal with whatever comes my way without much difificulty. We shall, however, see if that holds true to the end. At the moment I'm gleefully emptying the Assassin's Lair.

The second part of the game is non-stop combat, but I can excuse that, as I was able to play IWD2 and still enjoy it.
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