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#212888 - 10/08/07 01:59 PM How Much Do We Expect ??
Mad Online   content
True Blue Boomer

Registered: 11/21/00
Posts: 22758
Loc: United Kingdom
Hi smile

As what we expect from a PC Adventure game differs so much from person to person.
Just how can a developer be expected to keep up ?? lol

Some people seem to want absolute authenticity of characters and surroundings.

Others want superb graphics above all else.

The "pure adventurists" don't want any action sequences of any kind.

To some, the story is what matters THE most.

I could go on and on of course - there are so many individual likes and dislikes.

In the end we have to accept (or not accept evil) what is on offer and make our choices.

For the most part I am personally very happy with most of what's available these days thumbsup

How about anyone else think

Cheers.

Mad wave
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#212900 - 10/08/07 02:25 PM Re: How Much Do We Expect ?? [Re: Mad]
JKEerie Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 09/30/04
Posts: 874
Loc: Erie, PA
I would tend to agree with you Mad! wave

If a puzzle has one or two action or arcade sequences ...although I tremble at the thought...if I otherwise am intrigued with the game storyline...I'll go ahead and purchase the game.

I do appreciate the assistance of the gaming community...and the existence of the occasional cheat code (Ahem! Da Vinci Code grin). If all else fails, there's always the "saved game" that you can request from a fellow gamer.

Some games I will enjoy more than others. Some games I've gotten dismayed at the direction the developer has gone to...e.g. Nancy Drew. You are right though...they can't please everyone. The feedback they receive is largely reflected in the sales of the game.

I guess as long as they keep making them...we'll keep buying them! smile

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#212927 - 10/08/07 03:01 PM Re: How Much Do We Expect ?? [Re: Mad]
Diamond Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 09/11/02
Posts: 534
Loc: Yorkshire
Originally Posted By: Mad
As what we expect from a PC Adventure game differs so much from person to person.
Just how can a developer be expected to keep up ?? lol

With great difficulty, I can tell you. smile

I enjoy visiting the forums and reading what people think, what their likes and dislikes are, but I cannot create games that address every individual comment. And if you really think about it, I don't think any of you would really want that. If I tried to please everyone I'd end up pleasing no one.

One of the things that's best about the adventure genre is the variety within it - probably more so than most other genres, if not all of them. We should revel in that variety and encourage it. What does it matter that a particular game has some action in it? It means that developers love the genre and want to add to the variety even more. If it's not your cup of tea, I'm sure that there are other games you can play, but please don't think the developer is actively trying to alienate you. If a game uses cartoon graphics, it doesn't mean that it's trivial in any way or can't have a rich story, it means that it suits the developer's vision to do it in that manner.

Variety is a real strength, not just of the games, but of the fans' tastes. However, fans also need to see that even if an adventure doesn't completely match their tastes, it's still and adventure and is part and parcel of what's keeping the genre alive.

When I was at this year's GC in Leipzig, I had the great fortune to meet a number of different developers, all of whom love developing adventures. People like Hal Barwood and Noah Falstein. The Culpa Innata people, including Laura MacDonald (herself a regular on the forums when she has time). But one of the most striking meetings was talking with Martin Ganteföhr, whose game Overclocked comes out soon.

I have a great deal of respect for Martin and what he's trying to do, but when you think of the two games we were showing at GC - So Blonde and Overclocked - you couldn't get two more different games that essentially use the same point and click principles. This illustrates perfectly what strength and breadth the adventure genre can give to us all.

And even though Martin and I are working on very different styles of game, we both want to give players the best adventure experience we can.
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#212958 - 10/08/07 04:44 PM Re: How Much Do We Expect ?? [Re: Diamond]
sierramindy Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 1853
Loc: Rockford, Illinois
I do not expect a game developer to follow my vision of what a game should be like, partly because I have no idea what it is that makes a game work for me. But there are developers out there who create a game following some inner vision that they believe in and then again there are developers out there who are not interested in the game but the profit it will make and they will throw in the kitchen sink if they think it will bring in more cash whether it is good for the game or not. Lately there seem to be more of this type around, I'm sorry to say.
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#212961 - 10/08/07 04:50 PM Re: How Much Do We Expect ?? [Re: Diamond]
niteowl07 Offline
BAAG Specialist

Registered: 11/06/05
Posts: 7294
Loc: the dusty desert
Thank you,Steve.

I love the diversity !


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#213044 - 10/08/07 07:57 PM Re: How Much Do We Expect ?? [Re: niteowl07]
Darleen03 Offline
Adept Boomer

Registered: 12/13/03
Posts: 14584
Loc: Northeast NJ
I'm just glad we all have a choice which games we like..

There's enough for everyones likes to go around..

Thank Goodness monky
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#213127 - 10/09/07 01:18 AM Re: How Much Do We Expect ?? [Re: sierramindy]
Diamond Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 09/11/02
Posts: 534
Loc: Yorkshire
Originally Posted By: sierramindy
there are developers out there who are not interested in the game but the profit it will make and they will throw in the kitchen sink if they think it will bring in more cash whether it is good for the game or not.

If there are adventure developers out there doing this, I think they're in the wrong genre if they want lots of profit. smile
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#213143 - 10/09/07 04:52 AM Re: How Much Do We Expect ?? [Re: Diamond]
JennyP Offline
Adept Boomer

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 14334
Loc: West London, UK
I'm generally very happy, the only things I abhor are action & timed sequences. If I wanted to play that sort of game I would be ordering Lara Croft. Many of us are not quick enough with the mouse/keyboard & others have had a hard day at work & need no more pressure. I like to take my time & try everything possible before admitting I'm stuck.
Having said that, I managed to get an apple in the new Nancy by zapping wasps quickly, thought I would never do it !
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#213147 - 10/09/07 05:07 AM Re: How Much Do We Expect ?? [Re: JennyP]
aretha Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 09/16/05
Posts: 379
Loc: near London Gatwick Airport
I'll tackle action, mazes, slider puzzles, timed sequences or anything thrown at me but I have to really get on with the main characters. I loved Broken Sword 3 because of the strong George/Nico story line and I cared about the characters. Broken Sword 4 left me cold because of lack of Geoge/Nico. Didn't we care about Kate Walker and Oscar and April Ryan and Crow? But lately the lead characters are not so appealing and I don't want to go through hell and high water for them. Is it just me or when was the last time a game bought a tear to your eye?
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#213192 - 10/09/07 08:36 AM Re: How Much Do We Expect ?? [Re: aretha]
old lady Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 05/17/06
Posts: 582
Loc: cornwall england
It's a bit like going to the library I think. You know which type of book you like and choose from them to get what you will enjoy reading. I read the reviews and buy the games that will suit me. Some times I make an exception as with Dead Reefs, guess what - I don't like it, except for the story which is great and hours of play, it's very long. So, different stroke for different folks. happydance
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#213236 - 10/09/07 11:01 AM Re: How Much Do We Expect ?? [Re: old lady]
gatorlaw Offline
Adept Boomer

Registered: 11/01/99
Posts: 10305
Great topic

Hi Steve laugh

I know there a lot of motivating forces in making adventure games (likely being insane and not worried about banking wads of cash helps)

But one thing that is key in our group is we love to play games ourselves. And Adventure games in particular. So I really crawl around every inch of design, ambiance, challenges, dialogues, characters and voices and always think would I like this? Would this make me crazy if it were in a game I was playing? Many of us make games we wish were out there that we want to play smile

I also think it helps to think on what is truly critical to getting your story and core ideas into gamers minds and imaginations. If there is something in your game that gamers as a core group hate or at best merely tolerate til they can get through it - get rid of it!

Did I ever mention how much I loathe timed mazes or re-setting sliders? laugh

So I think some developers get locked into making their game deliberately obtuse, or one puzzle or another "just because". So I think in many respects finding volunteers if need be to play test your game in development is even more critical than bug testing. At least in the development or tweakable point of production.

Anyways back to it ...

and buy all our games! We don't want to be rich (or we'd work for a corporation heh) we just want to keep making games.

and Overclocked, So Blonde, The Abbey, The Lost Crown, Ghost in the Sheet and yup Culpa Innata -- viva diversity and thank goodness for Boomies and others who support all our interactive dreams with every BAAGing moment smile
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#213315 - 10/09/07 01:41 PM Re: How Much Do We Expect ?? [Re: gatorlaw]
Diamond Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 09/11/02
Posts: 534
Loc: Yorkshire
Originally Posted By: gatorlaw
Hi Steve laugh

Hi Laura.

Quote:
So I think some developers get locked into making their game deliberately obtuse, or one puzzle or another "just because". So I think in many respects finding volunteers if need be to play test your game in development is even more critical than bug testing.

I disagree. If a development team can't spot a potential howler at the design stage then development time could be seriously wasted. Bringing in people during development to test gameplay will really eat into your production schedule and your budget. One of the great things about working with Wizarbox is that we can thrash this kind of thing out at design time. It's also why I like reading the forums - I know the kind of things that people hate in advance, so I don't create them in the design. (Though I'm still looking for a way to create a timed maze that people would enjoy. smile )


Quote:
and Overclocked, So Blonde, The Abbey, The Lost Crown, Ghost in the Sheet and yup Culpa Innata -- viva diversity and thank goodness for Boomies and others who support all our interactive dreams with every BAAGing moment smile

And don't forget Momento Mori, Gray Matter, Mata Hari, too. smile
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Steve

Steve Ince, Writer-Designer
Steve on Twitter

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#213333 - 10/09/07 02:04 PM Re: How Much Do We Expect ?? [Re: Diamond]
JKEerie Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 09/30/04
Posts: 874
Loc: Erie, PA
Quote:
(Though I'm still looking for a way to create a timed maze that people would enjoy. )


Timed anything scares the begeebies out of me. eek However, if it were generous time...a way to save your progress in the maze along the way....and perhaps some sort of 'hint' system....it would make it less "unenjoyable." think

The one Sherlock Holmes game...I forget which...had a timed sequence in the park where Sherlock had to race to put out a fire. First off, you had to hit the spots on the screen just right to get Sherlock to progress quickly in the right direction...and secondly, he ran as if he had a piano on his back! mad One could get through it but only after quite a bit of frustration.

Perhaps that's what developers need to eliminate from games...the frustration a gamer experiences when they know what to do...but the game design makes it difficult. duh

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#213338 - 10/09/07 02:09 PM Re: How Much Do We Expect ?? [Re: gatorlaw]
Carrie Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 06/30/01
Posts: 920
Loc: California
wink I expect "this much" (from here.......to here). Since I don't know how much work goes into making games (I know it's a lot, though), it's hard to gauge, really. I'm just happy with the choices we have.

First thing that drew me to adventure games was that I wanted to 'dive' into a virtual place and 'be' there, experiencing the environment. The fantastic bonus was that I'd also get to try to figure out mysteries while wandering through their varied and wonderful environments... total, get-away-from-it-all immersion.

As I played more & more games, I discovered all the different types of gameplay... some preferred, some not. Also, I've come to appreciate the variety of game stories and gameplay. They're like works of art in a museum.

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#213367 - 10/09/07 02:41 PM Re: How Much Do We Expect ?? [Re: JKEerie]
Diamond Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 09/11/02
Posts: 534
Loc: Yorkshire
Originally Posted By: JKEerie
Perhaps that's what developers need to eliminate from games...the frustration a gamer experiences when they know what to do...but the game design makes it difficult. duh

I agree entirely with you on that point. I get frustrated and a little annoyed sometimes when that kind of thing appears in the games I play. I always look to design my games to minimise that.

I was actually surprised at GC when I saw, in a game by someone who shall remain anonymous, an item on display that you couldn't pick up simply because the designer didn't want you to. Why on earth put it there to frustrate the player?
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