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How Much Do We Expect ?? #212888
10/08/07 01:59 PM
10/08/07 01:59 PM
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Mad Offline OP
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Hi smile

As what we expect from a PC Adventure game differs so much from person to person.
Just how can a developer be expected to keep up ?? lol

Some people seem to want absolute authenticity of characters and surroundings.

Others want superb graphics above all else.

The "pure adventurists" don't want any action sequences of any kind.

To some, the story is what matters THE most.

I could go on and on of course - there are so many individual likes and dislikes.

In the end we have to accept (or not accept evil) what is on offer and make our choices.

For the most part I am personally very happy with most of what's available these days thumbsup

How about anyone else think

Cheers.

Mad wave


Time : The Most Precious Commodity
Re: How Much Do We Expect ?? [Re: Mad] #212900
10/08/07 02:25 PM
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I would tend to agree with you Mad! wave

If a puzzle has one or two action or arcade sequences ...although I tremble at the thought...if I otherwise am intrigued with the game storyline...I'll go ahead and purchase the game.

I do appreciate the assistance of the gaming community...and the existence of the occasional cheat code (Ahem! Da Vinci Code grin). If all else fails, there's always the "saved game" that you can request from a fellow gamer.

Some games I will enjoy more than others. Some games I've gotten dismayed at the direction the developer has gone to...e.g. Nancy Drew. You are right though...they can't please everyone. The feedback they receive is largely reflected in the sales of the game.

I guess as long as they keep making them...we'll keep buying them! smile

Re: How Much Do We Expect ?? [Re: Mad] #212927
10/08/07 03:01 PM
10/08/07 03:01 PM
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Diamond Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mad
As what we expect from a PC Adventure game differs so much from person to person.
Just how can a developer be expected to keep up ?? lol

With great difficulty, I can tell you. smile

I enjoy visiting the forums and reading what people think, what their likes and dislikes are, but I cannot create games that address every individual comment. And if you really think about it, I don't think any of you would really want that. If I tried to please everyone I'd end up pleasing no one.

One of the things that's best about the adventure genre is the variety within it - probably more so than most other genres, if not all of them. We should revel in that variety and encourage it. What does it matter that a particular game has some action in it? It means that developers love the genre and want to add to the variety even more. If it's not your cup of tea, I'm sure that there are other games you can play, but please don't think the developer is actively trying to alienate you. If a game uses cartoon graphics, it doesn't mean that it's trivial in any way or can't have a rich story, it means that it suits the developer's vision to do it in that manner.

Variety is a real strength, not just of the games, but of the fans' tastes. However, fans also need to see that even if an adventure doesn't completely match their tastes, it's still and adventure and is part and parcel of what's keeping the genre alive.

When I was at this year's GC in Leipzig, I had the great fortune to meet a number of different developers, all of whom love developing adventures. People like Hal Barwood and Noah Falstein. The Culpa Innata people, including Laura MacDonald (herself a regular on the forums when she has time). But one of the most striking meetings was talking with Martin Ganteföhr, whose game Overclocked comes out soon.

I have a great deal of respect for Martin and what he's trying to do, but when you think of the two games we were showing at GC - So Blonde and Overclocked - you couldn't get two more different games that essentially use the same point and click principles. This illustrates perfectly what strength and breadth the adventure genre can give to us all.

And even though Martin and I are working on very different styles of game, we both want to give players the best adventure experience we can.

Re: How Much Do We Expect ?? [Re: Diamond] #212958
10/08/07 04:44 PM
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I do not expect a game developer to follow my vision of what a game should be like, partly because I have no idea what it is that makes a game work for me. But there are developers out there who create a game following some inner vision that they believe in and then again there are developers out there who are not interested in the game but the profit it will make and they will throw in the kitchen sink if they think it will bring in more cash whether it is good for the game or not. Lately there seem to be more of this type around, I'm sorry to say.


To love is to be happy with!
Re: How Much Do We Expect ?? [Re: Diamond] #212961
10/08/07 04:50 PM
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Thank you,Steve.

I love the diversity !


Re: How Much Do We Expect ?? [Re: niteowl07] #213044
10/08/07 07:57 PM
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Darleen03 Offline
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I'm just glad we all have a choice which games we like..

There's enough for everyones likes to go around..

Thank Goodness monky


Luv Dar


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Re: How Much Do We Expect ?? [Re: sierramindy] #213127
10/09/07 01:18 AM
10/09/07 01:18 AM
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Originally Posted By: sierramindy
there are developers out there who are not interested in the game but the profit it will make and they will throw in the kitchen sink if they think it will bring in more cash whether it is good for the game or not.

If there are adventure developers out there doing this, I think they're in the wrong genre if they want lots of profit. smile

Re: How Much Do We Expect ?? [Re: Diamond] #213143
10/09/07 04:52 AM
10/09/07 04:52 AM
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I'm generally very happy, the only things I abhor are action & timed sequences. If I wanted to play that sort of game I would be ordering Lara Croft. Many of us are not quick enough with the mouse/keyboard & others have had a hard day at work & need no more pressure. I like to take my time & try everything possible before admitting I'm stuck.
Having said that, I managed to get an apple in the new Nancy by zapping wasps quickly, thought I would never do it !


When in doubt, cuddle a catcatrub
Re: How Much Do We Expect ?? [Re: JennyP] #213147
10/09/07 05:07 AM
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aretha Offline
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I'll tackle action, mazes, slider puzzles, timed sequences or anything thrown at me but I have to really get on with the main characters. I loved Broken Sword 3 because of the strong George/Nico story line and I cared about the characters. Broken Sword 4 left me cold because of lack of Geoge/Nico. Didn't we care about Kate Walker and Oscar and April Ryan and Crow? But lately the lead characters are not so appealing and I don't want to go through hell and high water for them. Is it just me or when was the last time a game bought a tear to your eye?


"Do you understand me?" Serena Joy
Re: How Much Do We Expect ?? [Re: aretha] #213192
10/09/07 08:36 AM
10/09/07 08:36 AM
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old lady Offline
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It's a bit like going to the library I think. You know which type of book you like and choose from them to get what you will enjoy reading. I read the reviews and buy the games that will suit me. Some times I make an exception as with Dead Reefs, guess what - I don't like it, except for the story which is great and hours of play, it's very long. So, different stroke for different folks. happydance


Has any one seen any little gray cells around as I think I've lost some? Reward for finder.
Re: How Much Do We Expect ?? [Re: old lady] #213236
10/09/07 11:01 AM
10/09/07 11:01 AM
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Great topic

Hi Steve laugh

I know there a lot of motivating forces in making adventure games (likely being insane and not worried about banking wads of cash helps)

But one thing that is key in our group is we love to play games ourselves. And Adventure games in particular. So I really crawl around every inch of design, ambiance, challenges, dialogues, characters and voices and always think would I like this? Would this make me crazy if it were in a game I was playing? Many of us make games we wish were out there that we want to play smile

I also think it helps to think on what is truly critical to getting your story and core ideas into gamers minds and imaginations. If there is something in your game that gamers as a core group hate or at best merely tolerate til they can get through it - get rid of it!

Did I ever mention how much I loathe timed mazes or re-setting sliders? laugh

So I think some developers get locked into making their game deliberately obtuse, or one puzzle or another "just because". So I think in many respects finding volunteers if need be to play test your game in development is even more critical than bug testing. At least in the development or tweakable point of production.

Anyways back to it ...

and buy all our games! We don't want to be rich (or we'd work for a corporation heh) we just want to keep making games.

and Overclocked, So Blonde, The Abbey, The Lost Crown, Ghost in the Sheet and yup Culpa Innata -- viva diversity and thank goodness for Boomies and others who support all our interactive dreams with every BAAGing moment smile





Re: How Much Do We Expect ?? [Re: gatorlaw] #213315
10/09/07 01:41 PM
10/09/07 01:41 PM
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Diamond Offline
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Originally Posted By: gatorlaw
Hi Steve laugh

Hi Laura.

Quote:
So I think some developers get locked into making their game deliberately obtuse, or one puzzle or another "just because". So I think in many respects finding volunteers if need be to play test your game in development is even more critical than bug testing.

I disagree. If a development team can't spot a potential howler at the design stage then development time could be seriously wasted. Bringing in people during development to test gameplay will really eat into your production schedule and your budget. One of the great things about working with Wizarbox is that we can thrash this kind of thing out at design time. It's also why I like reading the forums - I know the kind of things that people hate in advance, so I don't create them in the design. (Though I'm still looking for a way to create a timed maze that people would enjoy. smile )


Quote:
and Overclocked, So Blonde, The Abbey, The Lost Crown, Ghost in the Sheet and yup Culpa Innata -- viva diversity and thank goodness for Boomies and others who support all our interactive dreams with every BAAGing moment smile

And don't forget Momento Mori, Gray Matter, Mata Hari, too. smile

Re: How Much Do We Expect ?? [Re: Diamond] #213333
10/09/07 02:04 PM
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Quote:
(Though I'm still looking for a way to create a timed maze that people would enjoy. )


Timed anything scares the begeebies out of me. eek However, if it were generous time...a way to save your progress in the maze along the way....and perhaps some sort of 'hint' system....it would make it less "unenjoyable." think

The one Sherlock Holmes game...I forget which...had a timed sequence in the park where Sherlock had to race to put out a fire. First off, you had to hit the spots on the screen just right to get Sherlock to progress quickly in the right direction...and secondly, he ran as if he had a piano on his back! mad One could get through it but only after quite a bit of frustration.

Perhaps that's what developers need to eliminate from games...the frustration a gamer experiences when they know what to do...but the game design makes it difficult. duh

Re: How Much Do We Expect ?? [Re: gatorlaw] #213338
10/09/07 02:09 PM
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Carrie Offline
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wink I expect "this much" (from here.......to here). Since I don't know how much work goes into making games (I know it's a lot, though), it's hard to gauge, really. I'm just happy with the choices we have.

First thing that drew me to adventure games was that I wanted to 'dive' into a virtual place and 'be' there, experiencing the environment. The fantastic bonus was that I'd also get to try to figure out mysteries while wandering through their varied and wonderful environments... total, get-away-from-it-all immersion.

As I played more & more games, I discovered all the different types of gameplay... some preferred, some not. Also, I've come to appreciate the variety of game stories and gameplay. They're like works of art in a museum.



catrub
Re: How Much Do We Expect ?? [Re: JKEerie] #213367
10/09/07 02:41 PM
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Diamond Offline
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Originally Posted By: JKEerie
Perhaps that's what developers need to eliminate from games...the frustration a gamer experiences when they know what to do...but the game design makes it difficult. duh

I agree entirely with you on that point. I get frustrated and a little annoyed sometimes when that kind of thing appears in the games I play. I always look to design my games to minimise that.

I was actually surprised at GC when I saw, in a game by someone who shall remain anonymous, an item on display that you couldn't pick up simply because the designer didn't want you to. Why on earth put it there to frustrate the player?

Re: How Much Do We Expect ?? [Re: Diamond] #213399
10/09/07 03:49 PM
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Somebody, please, explain to me why on earth would a game developer (or whoever is responsible) have the character stand right in front of the hot spot, right after one clicks on it, but before one can click a second time to pick it up or use it? How annoying is that? And yes, I do have a particular game in mind where this happens a lot and it is hard to move him over to add to the frustration.


To love is to be happy with!
Re: How Much Do We Expect ?? [Re: sierramindy] #213542
10/09/07 09:11 PM
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Hi sierramindy ..

I was reading some of your post...You have some good points..

Have you ever decided to make your own adventure game...
Maybe then you can make everything the way you like it..

Just a thought


Luv Dar


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Re: How Much Do We Expect ?? [Re: Darleen03] #213617
10/10/07 03:18 AM
10/10/07 03:18 AM
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I stand to some extent on both sides of the divide between players and developers in that I'm among those making Adventure games as a hobby. The accent tends to be more on making rather than have made, but such is the way of many hobbies.

One difficulty is that we all use the term "Adventure", but what we mean by it may vary. So is "Full Throttle" an Adventure game? I would say yes, but it contains what for me are action sequences that I find close to impossible to play.

As a hobbyist game developer I want to put something of my own, some originality, push the envelope in some way, in any game I do. Developers like Steve Ince and Laura Macdonald will also want to do this, but they're more corralled by commercial realities. Not to do this would make developing games like working on an assembly line.

Pushing the envelope does mean you're not going to satisfy everyone. I'm pleased that games like "Dreamfall" are being produced. Good for Funcom. Whether "Dreamfall" is for me I don't know.


Used to answer to "Peter Smith", now answers to "Peter Rootham-Smith"
Re: How Much Do We Expect ?? [Re: Kickaha] #213935
10/10/07 06:30 PM
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sierramindy Offline
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Ah, Dreamfall, what an experience that was for me. I went from thinking it was a fantastic game when I played as Zoe and was ready to give it an award for a great game. That was the "Dream..." part. Then came April with that miserable troll sequence where the whole game changed into something unplayable by me and that was the "...fall" part.
Sometimes I think they were 2 different games that didn't work separately so they were joined together to make a single game and one character was called April to cash in on the fact that The Longest Journey was such a hit. Except for the name, April here was nothing like April in the first game.


To love is to be happy with!
Re: How Much Do We Expect ?? [Re: sierramindy] #214130
10/11/07 09:25 AM
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I consider myself more of an either/or type of player when it comes to what I want or get from adventures games.

My top preference is probably interesting characters, then the plot & story. But I've also had games I liked and held my attention just because of gorgeous graphics or challenging/unique/interesting puzzles, even if the characters & plot weren't that great.

I'm usually happy with all games, can find something I like in everything.

smile

Re: How Much Do We Expect ?? [Re: Jess519] #214227
10/11/07 01:40 PM
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sierramindy Offline
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Well, Darleen2003,
If I ever made my own adventure game with everything in it that I liked, how could I have any fun playing the game? I would defeat my own purpose for playing, wouldn't I? Besides it is more fun to complain! Also, I have no idea what I like, I just know it when I see/play it.


To love is to be happy with!
Re: How Much Do We Expect ?? [Re: sierramindy] #214250
10/11/07 03:03 PM
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I am desperately trying to pretend I'm Thumper. Fluffy, big ears, twitching nose - think I've got it!

Mad, you are so right. I so appreciate the diversity of games - I doubt there will ever be a game that everyone without exception will adore. Just like we don't all choose the same house, the same clothes, the same hobbies. What a dull world it would be if we did all only desire one thing, wouldn't it? Sometimes we can even think we might not like something, and try it anyway - some of the time we can be surprised that it is quite fun!


"How could drops of water know themselves to be a river? Yet the river flows on."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Re: How Much Do We Expect ?? [Re: nickie] #214309
10/11/07 05:00 PM
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Mad Offline OP
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Hi smile

And , of course, if we feel so inclined, we can always do a "sierramindy" and get some fun from complaining !! rotfl

It takes all kinds lol

Cheers.

Mad devilchili


Time : The Most Precious Commodity
Re: How Much Do We Expect ?? [Re: Mad] #214521
10/12/07 01:36 AM
10/12/07 01:36 AM
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As my Granny said you cant please all of the people all at the same time .Some thing like that any way .Good for the system to have a good moan.If all of us were that happy most of us would nt be talking to each other .Or be on game boomers lol .I get lost in a good game or book so my family and friends some times moan at me .I am doing Hard Evidence at the momment and I am not talking to any one while playing that game I am there .In another world lol.or answering the phone .I can hear them OH SHES ON THAT DAM COMPUTOR AGAIN .

Last edited by dragonuk44; 10/12/07 01:37 AM.

s wheeldon
Re: How Much Do We Expect ?? [Re: dragonuk44] #214974
10/12/07 09:28 PM
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I've read complaints here, haven't I? Didn't you feel a certain sense of relief after posting? Otherwise you keep it inside, get headaches, get high blood pressure, maybe even get cancer, who needs any of that? Yes, I much prefer complaining when I feel like it. Also I'm not too fond, maybe you have noticed?, of saying exactly what everyone else is saying!
See, she's doing it again, the sierramindy thing.


To love is to be happy with!
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