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#240330 - 12/03/07 07:17 AM Re: Is Anybody Playing Limbo of the Lost? [Re: Becky]
FABLE Offline
Shy Boomer

Registered: 10/29/07
Posts: 25
Becky - I totally inderstand what you are saying but you still do not get my point. I helped INFERNO because of the review, The game is very new and if people get stuck then ...hey that is part of the gameplay, Ok after it has been about for a few months then sure help and hints will follow from players but not from reviewers who have got the info from others to help their review. The knowledge gained from me was to help progress to aid the review this was done via private messages, not to just pass on to someone who after having the game a short while gets answers to their problems. I really feel strongly about this and do think that walkthroughs and solutions to just released games, especially Adventure/puzzle games hurts the genre and the players experience. The joy I got for completing some of the puzzles only helped the experience, it did not go against it.

I could send a solution to this fantastic game which took ages to develope so the players could complete it easily, but I would not as this would kill the experience for the players, yes a solution in 3 months time would be fine but not weeks after people have got the game!

I know hardend adventurers like myself would not use a solution or a cheat but as I quote from INFERNO from a private message -

"......this game should not have a walkthrough it would spoil it!"


Knowledge is best earned by oneself, rather than given away and obtained without effort.

You learn nothing by just treading in the footsteps and being guided by others.

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#240335 - 12/03/07 07:27 AM Re: Is Anybody Playing Limbo of the Lost? [Re: FABLE]
Becky Offline
The Medieval Lady
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 02/16/00
Posts: 26894
Loc: Stony Brook, New York, USA
Fable, you are my hero for getting through this game on your own! And I do understand your desire that everyone else should be persistent for months and months until they come up with the solution on their own.

But can you see my point that there are gamers with different goals, who don't find it enjoyable to be stuck? And that if we waited a few months before helping them, they simply would stop playing the game altogether?

Four or five months from now, most of the GameBoomers will have moved on from Limbo of the Lost, having enjoyed as much of it as is possible for them, and will be playing one of a dozen new games that will soon be releasing.

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#240337 - 12/03/07 07:28 AM Re: Is Anybody Playing Limbo of the Lost? [Re: FABLE]
MSTUDIOS Offline
Shy Boomer

Registered: 07/07/07
Posts: 20
Hi,
I have just read the last posts of this forum topic and I must admit that when review copies are sent out for reviews, we do ask for no spoilers to be done via the review or from the review copy. I am not sure if INFERNO got this info, but I do agree in part with what FABLE is saying and in part what Becky is saying as a service to players.

I for one do not like stategy guides or hint books or walkthroughs as they do kill the gameplay created by the game no matter what the genre. In fact we as developers would turn down any offer from PRIMA GUIDES for a guide book even though it would create revenue for us.

Players will always help players on this genre, but info gained at time of review should not be used I think. That and reading FABLE's posts looks as though they had an agreement and it has not been upheld.

The game did take a longtime to create and many hours to design the puzzles and overall flow of the game, al the puzzles are 100% logical, and there are clues everywhere, you just need to look and listen. It is sad that as a designer a puzzle could take a week to go from design to completion and some even longer and adventure players are asking for help only a few days after getting stuck......maybe that is the nature of the beast?

Becky can you not have a rule on the forums that only players not reviewers are allowed to post hints and tips? then these can be shared by the community as they play rather than just given out?

By the way when is the review coming out? INFERNO emailed me last week saying she was finalising it from a few questions she asked me.


Edited by MSTUDIOS (12/03/07 07:32 AM)

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#240338 - 12/03/07 07:35 AM Re: Is Anybody Playing Limbo of the Lost? [Re: MSTUDIOS]
Becky Offline
The Medieval Lady
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 02/16/00
Posts: 26894
Loc: Stony Brook, New York, USA
Hi MSTUDIOS -- yes, that is the nature of the, um, gamer. smile

When GameBoomers received the review copy, it came with no extra information whatsoever, just the game.

We did not have any idea that you as developers preferred that gamers should be refused help with the game when they request it.


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#240348 - 12/03/07 07:46 AM Re: Is Anybody Playing Limbo of the Lost? [Re: Becky]
MSTUDIOS Offline
Shy Boomer

Registered: 07/07/07
Posts: 20
Becky - I did not say gamers should be refused info when they request it, I said reviewers should not use their position and exclusive (yes this is an exclusive review!) insight to a title to help gamers as this is not very professional to the industry. Forums are for conversing and this forum in particular is for adventure players by adventure players, INFERNO should of got a disclaimer with the copy, seeing as she did not then I cannot hold this against her or GAMEBOOMERS but reviewers in my opinion should stay neutral and also act respectfully against the product and the developers to do with spoiling the experience.


At least we at MAJESTIC know for the future and any more product we release, whether it be LIMBO 2 or any other game.

Thanks

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#240349 - 12/03/07 07:46 AM Re: Is Anybody Playing Limbo of the Lost? [Re: Becky]
BrownEyedTigre Online   happy
The Sassy Global Moderator PR Liaison
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 01/04/04
Posts: 64681
Loc: In the Naughty Corner
I for one can tell you I never would have purchased my copy of Limbo of the Lost if I would not get the occasional nudge in a game because I would be so backlogged in games I would have no need for new ones. I consider myself fairly intelligent and a good gamer, but when I truly am stuck, I have no problem asking for help instead of sticking to it for weeks. Life is too short and my game time is too limited.

Inferno is a most professional reviewer and kindhearted lady and for her to be chastised for helping others is just a slap in the face. To ask for no spoilers in her review is one thing, but to ask her not to help in a Hints forum is just over the top.

Ana
_________________________
Don't feed the Trolls

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#240353 - 12/03/07 07:56 AM Re: Is Anybody Playing Limbo of the Lost? [Re: BrownEyedTigre]
FABLE Offline
Shy Boomer

Registered: 10/29/07
Posts: 25
BrownEyedTigre - If I helped you with the solution to a game you were asked to exclusively review, would you then use that knowledge to help players before the review was out, knowing that you had a free review copy sent from the devlopers for this task?

Do you see me (the 1st person to complete the game on this forum) posting solutions and spoilers to it?....No! because I do not want to take away the experince that you will get from playing it. And you will get a great expereince.......believe me!

If you look back at these posts you will see I touched on this issue and then was told off by Becky to even think such a thing, reviewers are professional she said..............go look at the hints section, now go look at the review section.....I rest my case!

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#240356 - 12/03/07 08:03 AM Re: Is Anybody Playing Limbo of the Lost? [Re: FABLE]
BrownEyedTigre Online   happy
The Sassy Global Moderator PR Liaison
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 01/04/04
Posts: 64681
Loc: In the Naughty Corner
Fable, those that she helped would have considered her to be rude knowing that she has played the game and not helped them. It is the nature of a gaming forum to help each other, not just this one, but all of them.

I have beta tested games and therefore have helped out until a walkthrough was written. I have never been chastised for it by a developer, quite on the contrary, I have been thanked for helping. In my wildest imagination I could not have thought that someone helping another person get through a section of a game they were stuck in could be considered anything other than kind to give of their time to help. duh Color me confused...

Ana

_________________________
Don't feed the Trolls

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#240359 - 12/03/07 08:06 AM Re: Is Anybody Playing Limbo of the Lost? [Re: BrownEyedTigre]
texaslady Offline
The Mischievous Moderator
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 06/02/04
Posts: 27907
Loc: Texas
I personally would never ever spend months trying to solve a puzzle. I have other things to do in life that are more important than spending that much time working on and fretting over one specific puzzle.
We will take any help in Hints from any member of GB that has played a game.
Inferno should not be slammed for using her knowledge of this game to help members. If no disclaimer was included with the review copy, I see no problem with her assisting.


Sue
_________________________
Yesterday is but today's memory, tomorrow is today's dream.
Kahlil Gibran

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#240360 - 12/03/07 08:14 AM Re: Is Anybody Playing Limbo of the Lost? [Re: texaslady]
FABLE Offline
Shy Boomer

Registered: 10/29/07
Posts: 25
"Inferno should not be slammed for using her knowledge of this game to help members" - It was not her knowledge to give, it was mine. I just feel betrayed by INFERNO after we both agreed not to do any spoilers or walkthroughs, then she posts the spoilers.

I helped because I wanted the forum to see and read about this great game, not so it would be easy for them to play.

I am not saying anymore on the subject and I will not be posting any solutions regarding this game or any other game on this forum as I just do not believe in ruining the experience for others.

INFERNO has let me down, in return for hours of helping her to complete the game ready for the review.

Thanks INFERNO.

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#240364 - 12/03/07 08:27 AM Re: Is Anybody Playing Limbo of the Lost? [Re: FABLE]
MaG Offline
Administrator
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 12/28/99
Posts: 65786
Gameboomers is first and foremost a forum that helps gamers and promote adventure games in general. If the process involved goes against the nature of what we are, it would be best not to proceed.

The help given by Fable had a rider and MStudios, the developer wants the gamers of his product to jump through the hoop first before they can enjoy the game - it would be best that a review of this game by GameBoomers not be done.

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#240410 - 12/03/07 09:35 AM Re: Is Anybody Playing Limbo of the Lost? [Re: MaG]
MaG Offline
Administrator
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 12/28/99
Posts: 65786
I find this very interesting; Fable and MStudios have the same IP address. Coincidence perhaps? think

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#240538 - 12/03/07 01:30 PM Re: Is Anybody Playing Limbo of the Lost? [Re: MaG]
nickie Offline
Grand wizard of high mucky muck
Adept Boomer

Registered: 01/08/02
Posts: 13453
Loc: Texas
I don't believe in coincidence.
Steve, from your first postings against your fellow developer Motrau, it was clear you have a real problem. As good as your game may be, your ego may well get in the way of it being a success. I regret this very much, because it also affects Motrau through no fault of his own.
Your requests about not giving out hints is unreasonable and unprecedented in the gaming world. Do you really think gamers will ponder your game if they don't get help on it? Inferno was helping out of the goodness of her heart, and now you try and cheapen that with your wild accusations. Are you that new to the genre that you don't know developers usually gladly give hints to their games - and are happy when reviewers care enough about the game to help others enjoy it too?
I for one am no longer interested in playing your game.

_________________________
"How could drops of water know themselves to be a river? Yet the river flows on."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

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#240569 - 12/03/07 02:26 PM Re: Is Anybody Playing Limbo of the Lost? [Re: nickie]
sierramindy Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 1853
Loc: Rockford, Illinois
Good Grief!
Spoilers and walkthroughs are one thing, help and hints are another thing altogether, so why are they being mixed up here? I look at spoilers for games I'm not interested in all the time and I always get a walkthrough if I can find one for the games I am playing. As for help, when I need it (and let me tell you I am the one to decide when I need/want help, not anybody else) I look for it in several places and again that is my choice. I like the help I get here at GameBoomers very, very much, but I also have other places that I check out.
As for reviews, there are times when I do not even bother with them. I made up my mind about Limbo of the Lost days ago and I'm not going to change it now, lucky for you.
_________________________
To love is to be happy with!

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#240673 - 12/03/07 05:36 PM Re: Is Anybody Playing Limbo of the Lost? [Re: sierramindy]
Mad Offline
True Blue Boomer

Registered: 11/21/00
Posts: 23311
Loc: United Kingdom
Hi.

Well. I am disgusted that anyone feels they have the right to lambast Inferno in any way when she gives so generously of her time in so many ways to help so many people.

And has been appreciated for doing so by all of us here at Gameboomers for a very long time.

Also, I feel it might be pertinent to know whether all the development team members at MSTUDIOS feel the same way as the one who is posting .... because as far as I am concerned this apparent "address" link between Fable and an MSTUDIOS person absolutely REEKS !! sick

Mad mad
_________________________
Time : The Most Precious Commodity

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