The puzzles. At least then it would be a game.


I'd call that an interactive movie rather than an adventure game.


I never felt I was "part of" the Dreamfall story. I felt I was "witnessing" it, just as I would witness a movie. Occasionally it would be interrupted by the need to fight something or do one of those stupid lock minigames.


If there are no challenges, there's no game.
Dreamfall had "challenges" in the form of clumsy fights and lock find-and-click-the-symbol-real-fast minigames. There weren't many adventure type puzzles at all, and the ones there were were often flawed (e.g. - the sound that only played once that was supposed to be a vital clue for a puzzle).


So all puzzles look like minesweeper to you?


What differentiates it from a movie then?
Not just the puzzles, but the type of puzzles.


There's something to be said for developing them at the same time. You can have a rough outline for how the story goes, but once you get into the details of how the story will progress you should consider the puzzles at the same time. That's probably the only way you can get the pacing of the story correct.

Well, if you want it like that:



Then perhaps our expectations from games are different. While you might be correct to call a series of puzzles a "game", it would still be a very empty game in my eyes. If all games were like that, I would really want to go to movies and read books only.


Call it what you like. I don't believe there should be only one type of adventure game. It's like saying "that's not true art". It might not be a game by your definition, but it certainly is by mine.


When I said a "part of", I meant the fact that you control the pace and progress of events. You sympathize with characters, and lead them. Of course it's programmed, like every game, but the illusion is what matters.
Besides, you obviously speak for yourself since there are many who were really touched by this game.



Again, if we're talking about a "game" in it's classic definition, I guess you have a point there. However, I still think that a game centered only around puzzles would be "fun", at best. Nothing close to experienced I have with games I consider good. It would take the essence of the word "adventure" away from adventure games.
btw, the music puzzle - you actually get to hear the creatures humming the 4 tunes all the time. This is how I solved it. They just never stopped humming the tunes until I opened the door.
Also, another beautiful element that I noticed is that these four tunes were an axis for the soundtrack of this area. It was very haunting.


Of course not. Most of them are related to a certain plot line.



What diffrentiates it from a movie is the fact that you still lead your character in your pace, you still get an illusion (most of us did) that you're responsible for the plot's progress, and besides: there are some challanges in Dreamafall! That part in Victory Hotel... Oh my g*d! That was so frightning, and I failed a couple of times.
If a game were to have no challanges at all, I would find it a bit silly, but if it had a really good plot, I'd play it anyway.
I dunno, I might also enjoy playing a game filled with puzzles and nothing more. But I know that while one might make me excited, anticipated, frightened, anxious, curious, etc.... the other would only be fun. At best.



It definitely sounds ideal.
I'm only saying - if you'd tell me: Listen, I have two games; one has a really good critisizm about it's plot, story, elements, etc... while the other has some really good puzzles...
I would take the plot game .
The best puzzles I can think of, are always strongly related to the plot.
I really liked LSR in GK3, for example. One of the best puzzles I've ever seen.
Also, the spider chair in Spire, in Myst 4 (and Spire generally).

A puzzle with nothing behind it is so... empty.

I may as well comment once and for all. Glad I played it (?) or whatever it was you did with the so called game. But it is at the bottom of my list as far as games go. Great story though!

I'm playing the game right now(Thanks to a special person) and I'm enjoying it. I dont like the fighting but the storyline is interesting.

The most annoying thing about it is that they must have had the ability to design better puzzles, but they apparently couldn't be bothered. TLJ had much better puzzles -- the alchemy puzzle, for example.

Thanks a lot Tomer for your review of Dreamfall... I didn't want to play this game because the previous one(The Longest Journey) was for me a very boring game with a lot of walking and no story. After i read your review i definetely give it a try. At least it has puzzles...
It sounds promising...

Volkana.... the whole discussion is about the fact that Dreamfall doesn't really have puzzles :), but a wonderful story.

Jenny100, I was talking about that puzzle.

It seems that i missed that part or i understand wrong...
I thought you said that there were puzzles but not challenging at all and very common...
Anyway...

Sorry...

I learn something new every day! I didn't realize that

A good reason to go back in Dreamfall and see what else I missed.

Jenny and Becky:


Volkana, there are *some* challanges to it, but if anyone would come to me seeking a good puzzle game, I would definitelly not recommend it.
I'd recommend Myst, most of all. Especially 3, 4 and 2.

By the way, our discussion reminded me of the questions: what's more important in a song? The lyrics or the music?
In the case of a song, I know that one with good lyrics, but bad music, would probably not attract me in the first place, so I won't get to know it, while a song with good music but bad lyrics would attract me, only to discover it's empty .
I would call the "music", in this case, the puzzles and graphics.
And the lyrics - that's the story.
For me.

Ah, Dreamfall! If sales were proportional to the controversy a game creates, then Funcom would have made a fortune. The current dialog is reminiscent of threads that went on and on about the time the game was released. I don't think that even the recent Limbo of the Lost dust-up had as much controversy as this game generated.

Hmmm...

I agree with you oldmariner, that the change in April was unforgivable, but since the name of the game is Dreamfall maybe Zoe dreamed the part where April starts and Zoe leaves. She was getting those strange messages about someone needing help and so she had a nightmare or whatever. I didn't finish the game so I have no idea what the ending was like. Maybe in a sequel Zoe would wake up and actually find our real April and make everybody happy. Oh well, I can dream too, can't I?