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#269041 - 01/26/08 11:03 AM Re: Downloads & The release of hard copy [Re: Becky]
auntiegram Offline
Adept Boomer

Registered: 06/10/06
Posts: 13597
Loc: northern Wisconsin
When you by online, what do you do to get the game again if the 'puter crashes or you have to take the ame out to make room for another game?? This is why I like the 'hard copy' myself.


Nan

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#269065 - 01/26/08 11:39 AM Re: Downloads & The release of hard copy [Re: Becky]
chrissie Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 4403
Loc: london uk
Hi Becky, I suppose I was looking at The AG market as a whole rather than taking into account one publisher looking to sell as many copies as possible of one AG. I can see that if every store in an english speaking country stocked & sold just one copy of a game it could boost the sales figures considerably.

Games that tend to turn up on shelves now & again here in the UK are either based on popular TV programmes e.g CSI, Law & Order or well known characters/authors etc e.g Sherlock Holmes, Agatha Christie, Jules Verne, Da Vinci The Forbidden Manuscript.
Other titles make an appearance occasionally & I was surprised to see Carte Blanche in HMV a few weeks ago.

But, I would be curious to know the distribution of sales between serious & casual buyers i.e those that would have, & those that wouldn't have bothered, to buy a game on-line in the event of unavailability in a bricks & mortar store?

If publishers by dropping the bricks & mortar stores altogether means the end of the trend for games that are downloadable only, I am definitely for it! But I have to agree it seems unlikely!

My main objection to downloading a game, & only then assuming I can make an independant back-up disc (i.e I can re-install the game directly from the disc), is the lack of flexibility to install it on a different system in the future & think there should be an option to burn a downloadable game to CD or DVD.

Okay, I can hear the problem of Piracy being screamed at me! But, as mentioned earlier some downloadable games are commanding the same price as a boxed disc version without all the production costs. Also, you can't resell a downloadable game so if this also applied to any CD or DVD made of the game it would make pirated discs obvious. It probably wouldn't stop piracy & another potential problem could be alternative websites turning up with pirate download copies but I can't help thinking this would be on a lesser scale than the problem with boxed disc versions which can be harder to spot?


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#269092 - 01/26/08 12:31 PM Re: Downloads & The release of hard copy [Re: BrownEyedTigre]
Jenny100 Offline
GB Reviewer Glitches Moderator
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 10/24/00
Posts: 35296
Loc: southeast USA
Originally Posted By: BrownEyedTigre
Perhaps rather than looking at the situation as holding back the hard copy, you would be best to view it as being able to get it earlier via download. I am sure many games have been completed and we never knew about it until they announced a release date. Now they have another way to cater to the impatient gamer.

Do the latest Kheops games (Cleopatra and Nostradamus) even have a publisher lined up for the US?

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#269101 - 01/26/08 12:52 PM Re: Downloads & The release of hard copy [Re: Jenny100]
Becky Offline
The Medieval Lady
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 02/16/00
Posts: 26894
Loc: Stony Brook, New York, USA
Nostradamus will be published by Microids in the US. I haven't heard anything definite as far as a US publisher for Cleopatra.

Quote:
But, I would be curious to know the distribution of sales between serious & casual buyers i.e those that would have, & those that wouldn't have bothered, to buy a game on-line in the event of unavailability in a bricks & mortar store?


I don't know anything about that, though I agree, it would be very interesting to find out.

Quote:
Okay, I can hear the problem of Piracy being screamed at me! But, as mentioned earlier some downloadable games are commanding the same price as a boxed disc version without all the production costs. Also, you can't resell a downloadable game so if this also applied to any CD or DVD made of the game it would make pirated discs obvious. It probably wouldn't stop piracy & another potential problem could be alternative websites turning up with pirate download copies but I can't help thinking this would be on a lesser scale than the problem with boxed disc versions which can be harder to spot?


I'm not sure how piracy figures into all of this. The pirates seem to put games up on piracy sites within days of the games being released (and sometimes even before they are released). frown

This puts pressure on game publishers in general to "hype" games as much as possible before publication, because their sales will inevitably drop as soon as people can steal the game by downloading it for "free."

One positive element to sales of adventure games is that games in the adventure genre have a longer shelf life than average -- partly, I feel, because the adventure gaming community continues to buy adventures even after they are available in pirated form. It speaks volumes for the typical adventure gamer's integrity (IMHO, of course) that these gamers continue purchasing games for weeks and months after they've shown up on illegal sites.



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#269107 - 01/26/08 12:56 PM Re: Downloads & The release of hard copy [Re: Becky]
Jenny100 Offline
GB Reviewer Glitches Moderator
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 10/24/00
Posts: 35296
Loc: southeast USA
Originally Posted By: Becky
Nostradamus will be published by Microids in the US. I haven't heard anything definite as far as a US publisher for Cleopatra.

That's interesting. Not Dreamcatcher this time.
Haven't all their previous games been published by Dreamcatcher?

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#269139 - 01/26/08 02:00 PM Re: Downloads & The release of hard copy [Re: Jenny100]
Becky Offline
The Medieval Lady
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 02/16/00
Posts: 26894
Loc: Stony Brook, New York, USA
Most were published by Dreamcatcher/The Adventure Company, though there was at least one exception -- The Secrets of Da Vinci was published by Tri Synergy.

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#269320 - 01/26/08 09:18 PM Re: Downloads & The release of hard copy [Re: Becky]
oldmariner Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 01/29/07
Posts: 1377
I for one will continue to hold out for the hard disk. It is primarily because as the Adventure Shop and kheops both informed me that yes i can legally burn a download from them on a disk. But I must install it while connected to their site. In other words the game is not mine. I can't rely on them to be there ten years from now to give me permission to use something I bought. Also the obvious trading etc is not available.

If the trend continues to expand and hard disk become unavailable entirely then I'll find something else to occupy my leisure time. I refuse to finance a business that treats the paying customer as a crook. That's what they are doing and as an honest customer that is exactly what they are calling me. I understand pirating is a legitimate concern but treating the customer that supports their business like a thief is not the answer to THEIR problem

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#269383 - 01/27/08 03:29 AM Re: Downloads & The release of hard copy [Re: oldmariner]
LindaMarion Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 318
hear hear Mr oldmariner
I have bo0ught maybe 100 games in boxes or jewl cases and never one download and I never will do
I think they are cuting there own throats
As you wrote / if they treat honest custmers as pirates then it only encourage people to bcome pirates and get the game freely evil devil

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#269403 - 01/27/08 06:05 AM Re: Downloads & The release of hard copy [Re: oldmariner]
chrissie Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 4403
Loc: london uk
Thanks for that info oldmariner, I had wrongly assumed that you could make an independant back-up disc for your own system without relying on an internet connection to the relevant site.
I totally agree with your comments & I will certainly not be paying out for downloaded games that are not ultimately mine either!! smile

I also think it's a pity for the developers if a game is never produced on disc as the longevity of the game could potentially be very limited. I know from this site that many gamers still like to replay some of the earlier games & others seek them out to play for the first time. How possible is this going to be for a download only game, are they still going to be available in 10 years time? & as you pointed out oldmariner there's no guarantee that the companies will still be around. smile

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#269506 - 01/27/08 10:10 AM Re: Downloads & The release of hard copy [Re: chrissie]
Mad Offline
True Blue Boomer

Registered: 11/21/00
Posts: 23336
Loc: United Kingdom
Hi smile

I know I am a techie dunce but ....

If I have bought a "download only" game and also a key of some kind which allows me to play it, how can I be stopped from burning it to a CD/DVD in order to allow a replay in the future ??

How can what I have already paid for and installed on my machine still be controlled by the seller from a remote site ?? woozy

Cheers.

Mad think
_________________________
Time : The Most Precious Commodity

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#269539 - 01/27/08 10:56 AM Re: Downloads & The release of hard copy [Re: Mad]
Jenny100 Offline
GB Reviewer Glitches Moderator
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 10/24/00
Posts: 35296
Loc: southeast USA
Because some keys only work once. Specifically they'll only work with the computer you first install the game on -- and if your hard drive goes bad they won't work on the replacement. You need to know whether the key you're being given has limitations on how many times it can be used.

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#269549 - 01/27/08 11:05 AM Re: Downloads & The release of hard copy [Re: Mad]
oldmariner Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 01/29/07
Posts: 1377
Mad
You can burn that to a cd, but the key has to be read by their server for the install to activate. You have to connect to their site apply the key. Their server authorizes the install.

I got this from Kheops "Yes you will need to connect to the internet after downloading the game, but only the first time you run the game to activate it with the serial number"

Which means if you buy a new pc and want to reinstall it you need to get their permission. IE connect to their site. So like an old game if years later you want to install it and the service is not there you are out of luck.

Got the same reply from the Adventure Shop. In addition they incorporate whatever DRM is on the retail disk. So you get the double whammy. The copy protection and no reinstall without connecting to their server.

I am not trying to be a hard head here and I understand their problem and I'm sympathetic to the problem. To allow unprotected early downloads before the disk is released is a recipe for disaster. The pirates would have a field day. I understand the concern. But old games like Still Life have already been stolen. The pirates will figure it out anyway. I simply want to be able to use my purchase and not have to ask permission to use a product I paid for. In the area of game developers and distribution we can't rely on them being around when these new games become classics. Even with the companies that are still around many don't support old games. Gabriel Knight, kings Quest etc. That's my issue with this.

Edit**** By including a key or serial number to activate your install along with the copy protection they are indicating this. The copy protection is not working and will be cracked by pirates. Otherwise they would not need to cripple your download with that key if copy protection was adequate.


Edited by oldmariner (01/27/08 11:12 AM)

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#269555 - 01/27/08 11:11 AM Re: Downloads & The release of hard copy [Re: oldmariner]
Jenny100 Offline
GB Reviewer Glitches Moderator
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 10/24/00
Posts: 35296
Loc: southeast USA
Mad, what game were you thinking of.
My downloads for the first three Agon episodes came with a reusable key and I didn't need to be connected to the Internet to install them. But the newer downloadable games from other companies seem to require you to be connected to the Internet, whether you have to enter a key or not... and they keep track of how many times you've installed their game.

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#269558 - 01/27/08 11:14 AM Re: Downloads & The release of hard copy [Re: Jenny100]
oldmariner Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 01/29/07
Posts: 1377
Jenny both Kheops and the Adventure Shop told me via e-mail you have to be connected to their site each time you install the game. their server read the key/serial number to allow installation. And you can only install a game three times after that you need a new key.

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#269565 - 01/27/08 11:20 AM Re: Downloads & The release of hard copy [Re: oldmariner]
Mad Offline
True Blue Boomer

Registered: 11/21/00
Posts: 23336
Loc: United Kingdom
Hi oldmariner smile

Thank you for that info thumbsup

I must say I am not pleased with it though ....

I feel that once I have paid for a copy of a game (whether on a disk or by download) surely that copy of the game should belong to me - to play and re-play as often as I might wish ?? slapforehead

I'd be interested to read the legal ruling on this type of sale.

Cheers.

Mad wave


_________________________
Time : The Most Precious Commodity

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