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Downloads & The release of hard copy #268804
01/25/08 10:39 PM
01/25/08 10:39 PM
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Darleen03 Offline OP
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I don't know if anyone has a reason or maybe can explain..

But here it goes... I find that lately with the downloads being so easy to acquire...That the publishers are holding back on the hard copies....

Now my question is : If they have a download of a finished game..Why does it take so long for the hard copy to be distributed ? headscratch

Thanks monky


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Re: Downloads & The release of hard copy [Re: Darleen03] #268811
01/25/08 10:48 PM
01/25/08 10:48 PM
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BrownEyedTigre Offline
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I believe thehood gave an answer for one game in particular awhile back here:

Originally Posted By: thehood
Hello,

Sherlock Holmes versus Arsene Lupin is going to be only next week for the downloadable English Version, for the boxed version there is little chance it could be found in NA earlier than next year...
play.com won't have the game, as they are not to receive copies until a UK publisher will first release the game.
Active negotiations are to be closed soon but to release games takes always a long time...Sorry to sound boring but I prefer to tell things as they are.

For the players who want to see the game and get a deep dive inside please go at the link below, theses 3D screens are very very very impressive:

http://www.panogames.com/games/sherlock_holmes_vs_arsene_lupin.htm


We have heard the same story from other publishers as well.

I am sure that the profits are higher for them as well.

Ana


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Re: Downloads & The release of hard copy [Re: BrownEyedTigre] #268813
01/25/08 10:54 PM
01/25/08 10:54 PM
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Darleen03 Offline OP
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Thanks ,Ana

So do you believe the profits are higher for a download then a hard copy? I would imagine so since you don't have the packaging & everything else... Then the download should be cheaper !!!

This is not fair at all...I think it stinks..So in the future us AGers has to look forward to this kind of distribution through download ?

<Rats> My opinion


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Re: Downloads & The release of hard copy [Re: Darleen03] #268815
01/25/08 10:56 PM
01/25/08 10:56 PM
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Darleen, you can also check out the responses on the same thread you posted awhile back HERE. wink

Ana wave


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Re: Downloads & The release of hard copy [Re: BrownEyedTigre] #268820
01/25/08 11:02 PM
01/25/08 11:02 PM
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Darleen03 Offline OP
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Ana, Thanks...

I realise I have posted about this subject before....
But at that time I really didn't think this download thing would get to the point that hard copies will be held back...I was hopeing it might be just something they would try out...
But now the games like Cleopatra are still not on hard copy. duh

I have now realized that it will be a practice on the publishers part...

wave


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Re: Downloads & The release of hard copy [Re: Darleen03] #268825
01/25/08 11:06 PM
01/25/08 11:06 PM
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Perhaps rather than looking at the situation as holding back the hard copy, you would be best to view it as being able to get it earlier via download. I am sure many games have been completed and we never knew about it until they announced a release date. Now they have another way to cater to the impatient gamer. lol

Ana wave


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Re: Downloads & The release of hard copy [Re: BrownEyedTigre] #268830
01/25/08 11:12 PM
01/25/08 11:12 PM
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Darleen03 Offline OP
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I agree....

But I do believe the download should be cheaper...that's my only beef..

I do like the option of a quick fix download...But the cost is rather high for a download without the packaging.

A Gamer can never sell or trade the downloaded product wink


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Re: Downloads & The release of hard copy [Re: Darleen03] #268886
01/26/08 04:54 AM
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And they don't look as good on my shelf. lol


I'll be back, one day, when I feel like it.
Re: Downloads & The release of hard copy [Re: Darleen03] #268898
01/26/08 05:45 AM
01/26/08 05:45 AM
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There are, I think, three main objections to electronic downloads, from a gamer's perspective:

  • no disk - what happens if I have to re-format my hard disk? I lose all my games completely
  • no paper manual - how can I consult the manual whilst I'm playing if it's on the disk?
  • requirement for a fast Internet connection - a full sized modern game can be several gigabytes of data.


(Some people also like to collect the game boxes for the sake of having a collection of nice boxes)

Personally, the only thing I really miss about a downloaded version is the paper manual. It also bugs me that many games that come in a box often have an electronic manual ('The Witcher', I'm looking at you!!)

I would suggest that, if games were distributed as ISO images using p2p networks like bittorrent, then the gamer can burn the image to a CD/DVD (very easy with most CD/DVD burner software packages). Game manuals should then be included as easily printable materials on the disk.

(There's probably a legitimate business model in there for someone like Amazon to use the ISO (with permission of course) and produce CD/DVDs for those who wish to buy a pre-burnt copy)

For the piracy-paranoid (not that you're ever going to be able to beat them whilst the police tolerate obviously pirating merchants in town markets), the ISO could be published completely freely, but so key functionality (like the installer, or a software key, or similar) could be purchased through a secure website.

To summarise: make ISO images available online through a technology that doesn't require a fast 'net connection, allowing people to burn their own copy of the game and print a simplified form of manual, which they then install and activate with a securely purchased key.

Oh, yes, and you're absolutely right Darleen, there is no justification for electronic downloads costing as much as a bricks-and-mortar distributed game. The production, distribution, and shop costs are completely eliminate (especially if you use bittorrent or similar to distribute as you don't have to pay the bandwidth costs for every single download!)

Finally, the game publishers probably couldn't care less whether you can trade your games, though the my model above doesn't actually pre-clude it! (not sure about the transfer of keys though)

Gremlin

Last edited by gremlin; 01/26/08 05:46 AM. Reason: wow, that was longer than I expected!
Re: Downloads & The release of hard copy [Re: gremlin] #268914
01/26/08 07:30 AM
01/26/08 07:30 AM
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Becky Offline
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The problem as I see it is that developers are finding it harder and harder to find publishers who can put PC games on shelves in brick and mortar stores. This may not be true in places like Germany, but it is true in the UK and in the US, and the English language versions are what I personally need.

If you go in your local Gamestop here in the US you see -- console games, one or two stand-alone fixtures with PC games and lots and lots of used console games. It would appear that where Gamestop makes its profits is on used console games. As these take over the store, there is simply less space for PC games. A couple of Gamestops in my area appear now to only get PC games from the large distributors like Ubisoft.

My local Walmart has fewer PC games than it did last year. For the Christmas selling season, it had 5 adventure games for sale, most of which did sell out by Christmas (I'm thrilled to say). Since there were dozens of adventures released in the last quarter of 2007, this means that only a small percentage made it onto shelves in Walmart. Target carries a few more adventures than Walmart, but often these are older games in jewel case versions.

Best Buy and Circuit City (happily!) do carry many recent adventure titles, but even so, it can take months from the time the game is finished to the time it makes it onto shelves there.

In the UK, from what I've heard, it's even harder to find PC adventure games on actual store shelves.

Publishers -- the good people who put the finished game in boxes, market it and distribute it -- once they've committed to an adventure title, do NOT want it sold less cheaply via download on the web. It's hard enough getting games onto shelves -- publishers don't want to lose a large chunk of their customer base to a cheaper download.

So (it's my understanding) that the developer can usually only sell the download version at the same price as the boxed version, and that's only if the publisher agrees to let the developer sell it separately via download in the first place.

Downloading the game from the developer's online store sends a much larger portion of the profits to the developer than to the publisher -- if you want to directly support the people creating the game, that is the way to go.

On the other hand, if you really want the game box, waiting patiently to buy the game when it releases on disk is the only way to ensure that future adventure games will be released on disk. If publishers find that they are continually losing money when they release adventure games on disk, they'll stop publishing them.


Re: Downloads & The release of hard copy [Re: Becky] #268925
01/26/08 08:59 AM
01/26/08 08:59 AM
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I look forward to all games having the option of a downloadable version if it means developers can offer their games faster and without having to wait for a publisher in a specific area or country. The games I have downloaded have worked flawlessly. The European developers are churning out a massive number of adventure games, they would be encouraged to continue this if their product could easily reach a wider audience, and they get a greater share of the profits.

What about offering the disk for free after download (as in the Sam and Max series) for those who feel they want a hard copy?

Dyl'smom




Re: Downloads & The release of hard copy [Re: Dyl'smom] #268931
01/26/08 09:24 AM
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I, for one, will have to give up adventure games if the publishers insist on only download. Don't have high speed connection and can't afford it.

Re: Downloads & The release of hard copy [Re: Becky] #268936
01/26/08 09:59 AM
01/26/08 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted By: Becky
The problem as I see it is that developers are finding it harder and harder to find publishers who can put PC games on shelves in brick and mortar stores. ............

In the UK, from what I've heard, it's even harder to find PC adventure games on actual store shelves.



This is certainly very true & also very few AGs are mentioned in gaming magazines, so for fans of the genre the only way to get information about & buy the majority of games available is via the internet.
Like myself, I'm sure that many other adventure gamers, due to the unavailability of many new AGs, have gradually ceased to bother with brick & mortar stores - this in turn must lead to less demand for the few games that are stocked & also they are often cheaper to buy on-line.

My point is this: assuming more AGs are bought
on-line, rather than from brick & mortar stores (e.g. in the UK)- why does a publisher need to rely on shelf space in a brick & mortar store in order to supply a disc version of a game???

Re: Downloads & The release of hard copy [Re: sarahandus] #268941
01/26/08 10:10 AM
01/26/08 10:10 AM
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Hi smile

Nowadays it seems it's not just profit - but maximum profit that rules the roost ?? think

For me, downloading a game carries too many negatives - some of which have already been listed on this and past threads.

I, personally, will always be willing to wait - if waiting will give me access to a hard copy yes

But if the day comes when a hard copy is no longer be an option At ALL then I will be extremely disappointed ....

Cheers.

Mad sad


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Re: Downloads & The release of hard copy [Re: Mad] #268950
01/26/08 10:26 AM
01/26/08 10:26 AM
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Hi chrissie -- I suspect that if a publisher is going to commit to publishing a game, they want as many distribution channels as possible. They're more likely to publish a game that will sell from store shelves as well as through online stores.

An interesting question -- as more and more purchases are made via the internet, will publishers drop the brick and mortar stores altogether and distribute the disk version online only? It seems unlikely to me, but I'm sure that stranger things have happened.

Re: Downloads & The release of hard copy [Re: Becky] #269041
01/26/08 12:03 PM
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When you by online, what do you do to get the game again if the 'puter crashes or you have to take the ame out to make room for another game?? This is why I like the 'hard copy' myself.


Nan

Re: Downloads & The release of hard copy [Re: Becky] #269065
01/26/08 12:39 PM
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Hi Becky, I suppose I was looking at The AG market as a whole rather than taking into account one publisher looking to sell as many copies as possible of one AG. I can see that if every store in an english speaking country stocked & sold just one copy of a game it could boost the sales figures considerably.

Games that tend to turn up on shelves now & again here in the UK are either based on popular TV programmes e.g CSI, Law & Order or well known characters/authors etc e.g Sherlock Holmes, Agatha Christie, Jules Verne, Da Vinci The Forbidden Manuscript.
Other titles make an appearance occasionally & I was surprised to see Carte Blanche in HMV a few weeks ago.

But, I would be curious to know the distribution of sales between serious & casual buyers i.e those that would have, & those that wouldn't have bothered, to buy a game on-line in the event of unavailability in a bricks & mortar store?

If publishers by dropping the bricks & mortar stores altogether means the end of the trend for games that are downloadable only, I am definitely for it! But I have to agree it seems unlikely!

My main objection to downloading a game, & only then assuming I can make an independant back-up disc (i.e I can re-install the game directly from the disc), is the lack of flexibility to install it on a different system in the future & think there should be an option to burn a downloadable game to CD or DVD.

Okay, I can hear the problem of Piracy being screamed at me! But, as mentioned earlier some downloadable games are commanding the same price as a boxed disc version without all the production costs. Also, you can't resell a downloadable game so if this also applied to any CD or DVD made of the game it would make pirated discs obvious. It probably wouldn't stop piracy & another potential problem could be alternative websites turning up with pirate download copies but I can't help thinking this would be on a lesser scale than the problem with boxed disc versions which can be harder to spot?


Re: Downloads & The release of hard copy [Re: BrownEyedTigre] #269092
01/26/08 01:31 PM
01/26/08 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted By: BrownEyedTigre
Perhaps rather than looking at the situation as holding back the hard copy, you would be best to view it as being able to get it earlier via download. I am sure many games have been completed and we never knew about it until they announced a release date. Now they have another way to cater to the impatient gamer.

Do the latest Kheops games (Cleopatra and Nostradamus) even have a publisher lined up for the US?

Re: Downloads & The release of hard copy [Re: Jenny100] #269101
01/26/08 01:52 PM
01/26/08 01:52 PM
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Becky Offline
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Nostradamus will be published by Microids in the US. I haven't heard anything definite as far as a US publisher for Cleopatra.

Quote:
But, I would be curious to know the distribution of sales between serious & casual buyers i.e those that would have, & those that wouldn't have bothered, to buy a game on-line in the event of unavailability in a bricks & mortar store?


I don't know anything about that, though I agree, it would be very interesting to find out.

Quote:
Okay, I can hear the problem of Piracy being screamed at me! But, as mentioned earlier some downloadable games are commanding the same price as a boxed disc version without all the production costs. Also, you can't resell a downloadable game so if this also applied to any CD or DVD made of the game it would make pirated discs obvious. It probably wouldn't stop piracy & another potential problem could be alternative websites turning up with pirate download copies but I can't help thinking this would be on a lesser scale than the problem with boxed disc versions which can be harder to spot?


I'm not sure how piracy figures into all of this. The pirates seem to put games up on piracy sites within days of the games being released (and sometimes even before they are released). frown

This puts pressure on game publishers in general to "hype" games as much as possible before publication, because their sales will inevitably drop as soon as people can steal the game by downloading it for "free."

One positive element to sales of adventure games is that games in the adventure genre have a longer shelf life than average -- partly, I feel, because the adventure gaming community continues to buy adventures even after they are available in pirated form. It speaks volumes for the typical adventure gamer's integrity (IMHO, of course) that these gamers continue purchasing games for weeks and months after they've shown up on illegal sites.



Re: Downloads & The release of hard copy [Re: Becky] #269107
01/26/08 01:56 PM
01/26/08 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted By: Becky
Nostradamus will be published by Microids in the US. I haven't heard anything definite as far as a US publisher for Cleopatra.

That's interesting. Not Dreamcatcher this time.
Haven't all their previous games been published by Dreamcatcher?

Re: Downloads & The release of hard copy [Re: Jenny100] #269139
01/26/08 03:00 PM
01/26/08 03:00 PM
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Becky Offline
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Most were published by Dreamcatcher/The Adventure Company, though there was at least one exception -- The Secrets of Da Vinci was published by Tri Synergy.

Re: Downloads & The release of hard copy [Re: Becky] #269320
01/26/08 10:18 PM
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I for one will continue to hold out for the hard disk. It is primarily because as the Adventure Shop and kheops both informed me that yes i can legally burn a download from them on a disk. But I must install it while connected to their site. In other words the game is not mine. I can't rely on them to be there ten years from now to give me permission to use something I bought. Also the obvious trading etc is not available.

If the trend continues to expand and hard disk become unavailable entirely then I'll find something else to occupy my leisure time. I refuse to finance a business that treats the paying customer as a crook. That's what they are doing and as an honest customer that is exactly what they are calling me. I understand pirating is a legitimate concern but treating the customer that supports their business like a thief is not the answer to THEIR problem

Re: Downloads & The release of hard copy [Re: oldmariner] #269383
01/27/08 04:29 AM
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hear hear Mr oldmariner
I have bo0ught maybe 100 games in boxes or jewl cases and never one download and I never will do
I think they are cuting there own throats
As you wrote / if they treat honest custmers as pirates then it only encourage people to bcome pirates and get the game freely evil devil

Re: Downloads & The release of hard copy [Re: oldmariner] #269403
01/27/08 07:05 AM
01/27/08 07:05 AM
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Thanks for that info oldmariner, I had wrongly assumed that you could make an independant back-up disc for your own system without relying on an internet connection to the relevant site.
I totally agree with your comments & I will certainly not be paying out for downloaded games that are not ultimately mine either!! smile

I also think it's a pity for the developers if a game is never produced on disc as the longevity of the game could potentially be very limited. I know from this site that many gamers still like to replay some of the earlier games & others seek them out to play for the first time. How possible is this going to be for a download only game, are they still going to be available in 10 years time? & as you pointed out oldmariner there's no guarantee that the companies will still be around. smile

Re: Downloads & The release of hard copy [Re: chrissie] #269506
01/27/08 11:10 AM
01/27/08 11:10 AM
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Mad Offline
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Hi smile

I know I am a techie dunce but ....

If I have bought a "download only" game and also a key of some kind which allows me to play it, how can I be stopped from burning it to a CD/DVD in order to allow a replay in the future ??

How can what I have already paid for and installed on my machine still be controlled by the seller from a remote site ?? woozy

Cheers.

Mad think


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