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#327376 - 05/14/08 07:00 PM Re: Plot Puzzles -- Are they or aren't they "Gameplay"? [Re: BrownEyedTigre]
Becky Offline
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Registered: 02/16/00
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So it isn't that plot puzzles don't make you think (they do that). It's that they don't make you feel as though you are actively doing something in the game?

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#327380 - 05/14/08 07:06 PM Re: Plot Puzzles -- Are they or aren't they "Gameplay"? [Re: Becky]
BrownEyedTigre Online   happy
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I was bored to tears is the truth. Even though the story was gripping, I wasn't in the mood for a movie. Perhaps if you had to do something else but click on a recording to trigger advancement each time it would have been different.

It needed "more" anything. It's like watching a movie at the theatre but everyone has to get up and change rows every ten minutes. It broke the spell of the "movie" to have to do something to trigger them, and it broke the gameplay to continuously click on a PDA to trigger a cutscene.

Ana wave
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#327504 - 05/14/08 10:20 PM Re: Plot Puzzles -- Are they or aren't they "Gameplay"? [Re: BrownEyedTigre]
Mad Offline
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Registered: 11/21/00
Posts: 23717
Loc: United Kingdom
Hi smile

I haven't started Overclocked yet so can't comment on it - but I do prefer a variety of puzzles in a game rather than a mainly plot puzzle driven one ....

Often I simply can't spare the proper amount of "sit and think" time during a gaming session when plot puzzling is the only way to progress rolleyes

Cheers.

Mad grin
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#327542 - 05/15/08 01:42 AM Re: Plot Puzzles -- Are they or aren't they "Gameplay"? [Re: Mad]
nickie Offline
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Registered: 01/08/02
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I love the plot puzzle style, and found Overclocked more immersive than when I have to stop game play in a game to figure out a machinery puzzle, or how to sneak past something, etc.
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#327567 - 05/15/08 03:58 AM Re: Plot Puzzles -- Are they or aren't they "Gameplay"? [Re: nickie]
dragonuk44 Offline
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Registered: 02/20/05
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Thats why I like detectives .Guessing who did it is part of the fun .Then proving it .With some puzzals of cause that coinside with the game .Every one of cause likes differant themes .I like the daft one to monkey island where every thing goes .Its all according what sort of mood I am in . lol wave

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#327745 - 05/15/08 11:57 AM Re: Plot Puzzles -- Are they or aren't they "Gameplay"? [Re: dragonuk44]
Rushes Offline
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Registered: 07/10/05
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Loc: UK
It really does depend upon the individual game, doesn't it. smile I was bored by Overclocked, but I did very much enjoy Shadow of Destiny and found it a very well thought-out game. And I've played Dreamfall 3 times now, and enjoy it more each time; its world is captivating and magical, and (for me, at least) the lack of any real puzzles doesn't detract from it in any way.
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#327753 - 05/15/08 12:16 PM Re: Plot Puzzles -- Are they or aren't they "Gameplay"? [Re: Rushes]
Bernard Offline
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Registered: 10/01/04
Posts: 3037
Loc: the Netherlands
I love it when the plot leaves some things to the imagination, I even like games with an open ending!


Bernard

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#327778 - 05/15/08 01:00 PM Re: Plot Puzzles -- Are they or aren't they "Gameplay"? [Re: BrownEyedTigre]
Jenny100 Offline
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Registered: 10/24/00
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Loc: southeast USA
Originally Posted By: BrownEyedTigre
I was bored to tears is the truth. Even though the story was gripping, I wasn't in the mood for a movie. Perhaps if you had to do something else but click on a recording to trigger advancement each time it would have been different.

It needed "more" anything. It's like watching a movie at the theatre but everyone has to get up and change rows every ten minutes. It broke the spell of the "movie" to have to do something to trigger them, and it broke the gameplay to continuously click on a PDA to trigger a cutscene.

Ana


I have to agree with Ana. I haven't played Overclocked, but I've encountered the same kind thing she's talking about in other games. Most of these games would have worked better as real movies than as "interactive movies."

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#327838 - 05/15/08 02:54 PM Re: Plot Puzzles -- Are they or aren't they "Gameplay"? [Re: Jenny100]
LindaMarion Offline
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Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 318
Apology for my ignorance.

What is the definition of *plot-puzzle*?

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#327866 - 05/15/08 03:47 PM Re: Plot Puzzles -- Are they or aren't they "Gameplay"? [Re: LindaMarion]
Becky Offline
The Medieval Lady
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Registered: 02/16/00
Posts: 26894
Loc: Stony Brook, New York, USA
A plot puzzle occurs in a game where significant portions of the story are ambiguous or parts of the story occur in odd time sequences (for instance, perhaps your character is traveling through time, or to different worlds in different times, or perhaps she is remembering things, but it's not clear what order the memories are in). So you spend part of the time you're playing the game trying to come up with the most logical time line, or figuring out how certain events fit within the plot. That's how I would define it, anyway. grin

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#327955 - 05/15/08 05:36 PM Re: Plot Puzzles -- Are they or aren't they "Gameplay"? [Re: Becky]
looney4labs Offline
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Registered: 04/05/04
Posts: 42647
Loc: Alabama
Well, I really liked Dreamfall and I would definitely class it as an adventure game. However, I guess for me it has to do with how strong the story is to start with.

I'm not sure I'd like to have to order the timeline though I don't mind learning what happened in flashbacks or by written material wave
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#327973 - 05/15/08 05:50 PM Re: Plot Puzzles -- Are they or aren't they "Gameplay"? [Re: Becky]
chrissie Offline
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Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 4409
Loc: london uk
I think one of my main issues with a couple of the 'plot puzzled' games mentioned i.e Dreamfall & The Lost Crown is nothing to do with them being 'plot puzzled'. It was more to do with stories that weren't concluded satisfactorily.
I got on with Dreamfall far better as it had a story within itself which was concluded & a comprehensible story-line, although I was annoyed that I felt left hanging and a sequel is needed to tie up the loose ends. I wish game developers wouldn't do this & make their games completely 'self -contained'.

As for the Lost Crown, as much as I enjoyed playing it, on it's conclusion it had dropped from potentially being in my top 20 games to the ranks of 80+. The reason being that the ending didn't really offer any full explanation as to what the story was about so the content ended up feeling 'shallow'. Also ambiguity in small doses can be interesting, but throughout a whole game it is just feels that you are on the recieving end of a developer who can't make up his mind what he is doing. smile


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#327985 - 05/15/08 06:13 PM Re: Plot Puzzles -- Are they or aren't they "Gameplay"? [Re: chrissie]
LindaMarion Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 318
ive played computer games for long time but never seen the words *plot puzzle* before.
Ive seen slider puzzle, sound puzzle, inventory puzzle, mechanical, etc

many thanks becky for your explanation but i still dont understand. i put plot puzzle in google and got different things absolutely.

Quote:
A plot puzzle occurs in a game where significant portions of the story are ambiguous or parts of the story occur in odd time sequences

wouldnt this be a *plot problem* or a *plot ambiguity* or even a *plot failure or bug* or something?

why is it called puzzle?

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#327994 - 05/15/08 06:27 PM Re: Plot Puzzles -- Are they or aren't they "Gameplay"? [Re: LindaMarion]
Becky Offline
The Medieval Lady
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 02/16/00
Posts: 26894
Loc: Stony Brook, New York, USA
I think of plot puzzles as puzzles because (to me) they require as much thinking as more "traditional" puzzles, such as inventory or mechanical puzzles. I find them just as challenging and enjoyable as other kinds of puzzles.

I suppose partly what I'm asking is: are they indeed puzzles? Or are they really something else? (Is the plot just the plot, even if you have to piece it together to understand it?)

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#328023 - 05/15/08 07:09 PM Re: Plot Puzzles -- Are they or aren't they "Gameplay"? [Re: Becky]
Bernard Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 10/01/04
Posts: 3037
Loc: the Netherlands
For me the 'plot puzzles' are the most important ingredient of memorable games. I love to piece the parts together while playing the game. What I even like better, after finishing the game, is to sit back, enjoy a beverage of choice and pondering about the plot. Filling the plot holes with my own interpretations! When a game succeeds to do that, it's sure to get high on my favourites list!


Bernard

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