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#264734 - 01/18/08 08:54 PM Re: Dreamfall. Wow. [Re: sierramindy]
BubbaJake Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 801
Loc: Illinois
I know I wasn't invited here, but it is an open forum. I liked DreamFall better the second time around. I kept wanting April and the Borderhouse, and in the end I didn't like her at all when she did show up. I think I did understand why she had changed. She had grown up and become very cynical. In her situation, who wouldn't be, I guess. I liked and understood it (especially the lock puzzles) WAY better than Culpa Innata, which I am currently replaying, but still confused about.
Give me Syberia, Still Life or better yet, a good old Tex Murphy game any day.

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#264821 - 01/19/08 03:55 AM Re: Dreamfall. Wow. [Re: sierramindy]
Tomer Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 06/12/07
Posts: 793
Loc: Tel Aviv, Israel.
The way it goes in Dreamfall, I guess the ressurection will be somthing like:
Click to reveal..

Kian: April, you're alive, how can this be?!?
April: I don't know. I just am.
Kian: White kin, how can she be alive? I saw her dying!!
White kin: What she is, is what she were, is what she would be, thus she is a part of the storytime, and therefore, she is.
Kian: *sigh*
smile
_________________________
There's definitely definitely definitely no logic to human behaviour.

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#265034 - 01/19/08 11:42 AM Re: Dreamfall. Wow. [Re: Tomer]
looney4labs Offline
GB Reviewer Moderator
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 04/05/04
Posts: 42397
Loc: Alabama
Don't you think
Click to reveal..
April has to be alive? I assumed she is the old lady who is telling the tale in TLJ.
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"Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole."
-Roger Caras

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#265059 - 01/19/08 12:13 PM Re: Dreamfall. Wow. [Re: looney4labs]
misa Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 11/04/07
Posts: 1372
Loc: PA, USA
I am pretty sure I read this elsewhere:

Click to reveal..
The old lady in TLJ is "Lady Alvane" which is the last name of Kian. But I also remember reading either here or another forum that in one of the files on the game (someone decompiled it I think), "Lady Alvane" is referred to as "Old April".

Also we didn't actually see April die. We saw her get injured and fall in the water.


As for Dreamfall, I liked TLJ better as far as story, gameplay and characters. I really didn't feel that attached to Zoe or anyone else in Dreamfall except maybe Wonkers! razz Having said that, I will play the the new episodes whenever they come out. I'm like that though, I'll play every game in a series even if the subsequent games don't pull me in as the first one(s).

Like others, I felt it to be more of an interactive movie, sort of like how Fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy is considered an interactive movie.

My final thought on this is that everyone likes different things in games. Some like the story better than the puzzles, some like puzzles better than the story. I like a good balance of the two but it really depends on the game as a whole for me.


Edited by misa (01/19/08 12:16 PM)

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#265105 - 01/19/08 01:41 PM Re: Dreamfall. Wow. [Re: looney4labs]
chrissie Offline
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Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 4404
Loc: london uk
Hi looney4labs, I thought exactly the same thing! smile

I replayed the Longest Journey after I finished Dreamfall - but even though Dreamfall, as a sequel, played so differently I did like it almost as much! I definitely would have included it as a recommendation on Flotsam's list for that year if it had not been for the more awkward interface.

There seems to be a lot of disappointment at the change in April's character in Dreamfall - but for the character there has been some time gone by between the ending of TLJ & her appearance in Dreamfall - I for one would love to know what happened to her inbetween! smile

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#265113 - 01/19/08 01:58 PM Re: Dreamfall. Wow. [Re: chrissie]
Jenny100 Offline
GB Reviewer Glitches Moderator
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 10/24/00
Posts: 35475
Loc: southeast USA
I think there was also disappointment that April wasn't the "hero" in Dreamfall. People wanted to see her story continue, not jump years ahead to where she's only a side character, and a cynical one at that.

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#265132 - 01/19/08 02:22 PM Re: Dreamfall. Wow. [Re: Jenny100]
sierramindy Offline
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Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 1853
Loc: Rockford, Illinois
What about those strange messages that Zoe was getting on that screen showing that someone needed help of some kind? Was that April? What happened to Zoe at the end of Dreamfall since I never got that far? Everything is about April since this was supposed to be a sequel and I understand that part of it, but still Zoe has some connection now, but I don't know what it is. I feel like it was almost 2 games cobbled together! Which is very cynical, I know, but that's the way the game comes across to me. Seems my reactions never follow the crowd.
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#265222 - 01/19/08 05:05 PM Re: Dreamfall. Wow. [Re: sierramindy]
oldmariner Offline
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Registered: 01/29/07
Posts: 1430
Originally Posted By: sierramindy
What about those strange messages that Zoe was
Click to reveal..
getting on that screen showing that someone needed help of some kind? Was that April? What happened to Zoe at the end of Dreamfall since I never got that far? Everything is about April since this was supposed to be a sequel and I understand that part of it, but still Zoe has some connection now, but I don't know what it is. I feel like it was almost 2 games cobbled together! Which is very cynical, I know, but that's the way the game comes across to me. Seems my reactions never follow the crowd.


This has got to be all spoiler. You did not finish the game? Read at your own risk.

[spoiler]The doctor who supervised the creation and killing of the little girl turns out to be Zoe's mother. At the end of the game, (Editorial) the "mother" (if you could possibly call her that. We have some choice names for fathers who abuse their children well they can be applied to this "mother".) The doctor mother puts Zoe into a coma presumably so zoe can talk the little girl into letting go and moving on. She does not tell Zoe but her plan appears to be designed to get rid of Zoe as well. Zoe ends up in a coma the girl agrees to move on, end of game


We can only speculate but------

Click to reveal..
Why was the little girl wanting to "Save April" who knows? Perhaps she knows April is the only one who can defeat the sinister plot. It seems the child and zoe are sisters of a sort, same mother so to speak. The child tried to get Zoe to save April. The "mother" tried to do away with Zoe and the child. As Misa pointed out the story teller is Lady Alvane. Same last name as Kian. Ah does the warrior unite with April? Well it has been strongly suggested that April is Lady Alvane, that is one way to get there. Though I'd rather see April end up with Charlie. Who knows, lots of possibilities.
[/spoiler]

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#265340 - 01/19/08 10:44 PM Re: Dreamfall. Wow. [Re: oldmariner]
sierramindy Offline
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Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 1853
Loc: Rockford, Illinois
Thanks, oldmariner,
I really was curious about Zoe, since she was the only one I cared about.

Click to reveal..
I remember now about her being put to sleep (well, I thought it was sleep so she could enter the dreamfall world or something like that) but coma works too. The child, if they had the same mother, would be a half-sister to Zoe. If Zoe is in a coma there is the chance she will come out of it in the next game if it is ever made. That's sort of comforting!


Since I'm not about to ever play the game again as I no longer even have it, I am very grateful that you took the time to fill me in on what happened. It's odd, but I feel better about the game now that you have explained about Zoe. The rest I don't care about as I never got involved with that part of the game and I don't understand all the fine points about the story.
_________________________
To love is to be happy with!

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#265393 - 01/20/08 05:41 AM Re: Dreamfall. Wow. [Re: sierramindy]
Tomer Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 06/12/07
Posts: 793
Loc: Tel Aviv, Israel.
oldmariner, you're forgetting something:
Click to reveal..
In the end, the little girl (hope) answers why she's been trying to make you save April Rian. She says the "White Lady" told her to, and that she's been there just before you did. I've always assumed that's the white kin, but I could be mistaken. Could be lady Alvane, as far as I know.

Another thing that really bothered me, is that the girl says that April has indeed been saved. Zoe wonders, since she saw her die (or injured). So, some would say her death was her saving.
But - what did Zoe do to cause her death? She obviously had no visible effect on April's life - April would have gone through the same route (as far as I can tell), with or without Zoe interffering with her life. So, how come Zoe saved her?!
_________________________
There's definitely definitely definitely no logic to human behaviour.

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#265414 - 01/20/08 06:53 AM Re: Dreamfall. Wow. [Re: Tomer]
Becky Offline
The Medieval Lady
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 02/16/00
Posts: 26894
Loc: Stony Brook, New York, USA
Tomer -- I've often wondered that myself.
Click to reveal..
The only effect Zoe seems to have had on that last sequence in the Rebel's swamp home is to slow down April's two friends near the end -- they had to put Zoe to sleep so that she would leave the world and wouldn't be captured. Dealing with Zoe slowed down the friends' retreat. Could that have somehow saved April?

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#265630 - 01/20/08 12:21 PM Re: Dreamfall. Wow. [Re: Tomer]
oldmariner Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 01/29/07
Posts: 1430
Originally Posted By: Tomer
oldmariner, you're forgetting something:
Click to reveal..
In the end, the little girl (hope) answers why she's been trying to make you save April Rian. She says the "White Lady" told her to, and that she's been there just before you did. I've always assumed that's the white kin, but I could be mistaken. Could be lady Alvane, as far as I know.

Another thing that really bothered me, is that the girl says that April has indeed been saved. Zoe wonders, since she saw her die (or injured). So, some would say her death was her saving.
But - what did Zoe do to cause her death? She obviously had no visible effect on April's life - April would have gone through the same route (as far as I can tell), with or without Zoe interffering with her life. So, how come Zoe saved her?!


Yes it is true I forgot that little detail. Here is a bit of theory to address what you ask.

Click to reveal..
Remember in game one April learned how to breathe under water. Also this cliff hanger, hero falling into (something) during an attack, has been used endlessly in movie after movie. Nothing new here as there is nothing conclusive.

I believe the White kin is the white lady. She would have the "powers" to communicate with Faith. In more than one place in the game the White Dragon was referred to as the White Lady. How did Zoe save April? Here is a plot path that answers that question.

Well, here's my theory on why April's alive. Faith indicates that Zoe did indeed save April. Even though it seems that April was killed. However, as we know that almost everything in this story has a deeper meaning. What needed to be saved was April's faith. It comes back to my earlier statement about April needed to be resurrected. She had lost her faith, and it was that faith that Faith was telling Zoe to save.

A symptom of this lost faith was the loss of April's shifting abilities. If I am correct in assuming that it is April's faith that needed to be saved, and that Zoe saved it. She would have regained her shifting powers. Therefore, April shifted after being stabbed. Remember in T.L.J April needed to be stressed to shift. She shifted to who knows where, but just that idea that she shifted means that she's not dead. I won't ever forgive the writers if this in fact was the end of April. Perhaps the best game character ever. So T.L.J 3 will determine if Dreamfall was a dud or not.


Just a few ideas offered to further the speculation. You gotta admit there are many outs for the story writers here.

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#265680 - 01/20/08 01:42 PM Re: Dreamfall. Wow. [Re: oldmariner]
sierramindy Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 1853
Loc: Rockford, Illinois
Hmm, more going on here than I ever thought about. I'm character oriented, not plot oriented, so I missed a lot of the storyline without even noticing that fact, or caring really. Zoe left when April appeared as a main character and since I couldn't deal with April, I quit, my interest was gone. But reading this thread is very interesting because I'm interested in how other gamers see this game and the characters in it.
But what about the story writers? Are there any out there who really care enough to go on with the story? It is easy to guess at different ways the plot could go, but not necessarily all that easy to sit down and actually work it out in detail. That takes not only talent but some sort of inner vision or belief in the story itself, a commitment maybe, whatever. So, gamers might be ready for more, but are the writers? Time alone will tell, I reckon.
_________________________
To love is to be happy with!

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#265700 - 01/20/08 02:30 PM Re: Dreamfall. Wow. [Re: sierramindy]
oldmariner Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 01/29/07
Posts: 1430
I can answer that to a point. Ragnar Tornquist, the creator of the story is keeping quiet in regard to what happened. In interviews he has said the complete story is written. The plan is to release the rest in downloaded chapters. Something like Sam and Max I surmise. He has also stated that in the worst case he would release it in story format if the game did not come to be. He was quoted as saying we will not have to wait years either.

Considering the game is story/character driven and that it is an outstanding achievement in story telling we can assume Tornquist has worked out more surprises for us. Look at the product to date, the two games taken together are highly developed. I or the collective "we" may not like the direction it takes but the promise is that the story is written. Tornquist has an online blog and he answers reader's questions. So we can suppose he hears people's ideas. Not to say he will incorporate them but we can be certain he is aware of what people think and want. As an aside in his blog he commented that many people assumed that Stark was modeled after LA. He stated it is not, he was thinking Seattle/Vancouver while designing Stark. He also said Stark fared much better than Europe in regard to being depressed. I did not see where that was illustrated in DreamFall but that was his comment.

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#265722 - 01/20/08 03:41 PM Re: Dreamfall. Wow. [Re: oldmariner]
Tomer Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 06/12/07
Posts: 793
Loc: Tel Aviv, Israel.
Becky:
Click to reveal..
I don't see how slowing down April's companions indeed influenced somehow. It's kinda random smile. Don't have a better idea though.


Oldmariner:
Click to reveal..
What you said, about April being stressed and then shifting - that's probably the best theory I've read so far. What I still didn't get from you, is how Zoe's connected to all of that? What influence did Zoe have on April? April didn't get injured because of Zoe...


Oh, what I write is directed for everybody of course, but it's a response to what these people said smile.
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There's definitely definitely definitely no logic to human behaviour.

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