Folks, I can no longer play my XP games in my old Dell Dimension 8200 (which we ordered brand new from Dell in Nov. 2001) because the video card is failing (the game such as 80 Days crashes now when it never crashed before/onscreen message about possible device failure when PC restarts after game crash), also I've new AG's that I now have plus these upcoming AG's I'd like to get so I'm thinking of getting a new desktop PC (tower only - will use CRT monitor, speakers, mouse, keyboard from old Dell Dimension) from EcollegePC. As of now I'm looking at either these (specs below) from the Value Series:

Intel Dual Core E5300 2.6Ghz CPU - will add 2.8 GHz D.C. E6300 CPU;
•ASROCK G31M-S Mainboard
•2GB DDR2 PC6400 Memory
•500GB SATA2 7200RPM HDD
•22X LG SATA DVD+/-RW w/Nero
•384MB Intel® GMA 3100 Video - will add 1GB GeForce 9600 GT PCI
•10/100 Ethernet Adapter - will add wireless B/G PCI adapter
•6-Channel HD Audio
•Black Foxconn Mid Tower
•ISO400 Power Supply - will add 500 watt Antec Earthwatts PSU
•6 USB 2.0 Ports
•1 Year Parts and Labor Warranty
$299; adding the items on the right jumps the price to $503.

Will these specs be adequate for using my 500 GB Iomega Mini external hard drive and Photoshop CS 3 (for windows) on this PC?

ad a discussion going about this new PC for some time now at MysteryManor.net, so I'm asking for opinions (esp. of InlandAZ) here at JA.

On this new PC I planning on playing AG's, I'm trying to future-proof this PC for as far as I can go regarding AG's that may start requiring quad core processors given several yrs from now.

If I get this new PC with Windows 7 (32-bit), will all my Windows XP games (Thief series, MS Flight Simulator X Deluxe, DOSbox 0.73, VPC, VMware Player) run ok in Windows 7?

Now, if I took out the 2.8GHz Core Duo E6300 CPU and added the 2.6 GHz quad core 2 Q8400, the price will be just under $600 (actual $599)

The reason I'm thinking of going with Win 7 is b/c my PC-savvy nephew told me today that even with all its updates, Windows XP is sort of buggy, and since I tend to always have a problem with my PC from time to time, it's best for me to get Win 7 b/c Windows 7 fixes the problems for me.

Also I was forgetting about the Win 95 - Win XP Compatibility modes that Windows 7 has - I hope this works better then it did in XP?

Hey cruise 02!!

Just my 2 pennies.

The setup, as described, not too bad, not "future proof" though. Not really saying anything bad. Just need a bit more muscle is all. I've thrown this together. See what you think.

case: case

cpu: cpu

power supply: power supply

motherboard: motherboard

memory (x2): memory

hard drive: hard drive

video card: video card

dvd drive: dvd burner

operating system: Win 7 Pro


Total cost, after shipping: $902.96



I realize that this is probably more than you may be willing to spend, but I think this will meet your needs, and then some.

The Pro version of Win 7 contains "xp mode", which will allow you to run games & apps in XP.

The video card. There are a ton of debates about nvidia vs ati. It's all personal preference actually. ATI, as of now, are the only manufacturers with a direct x 11 card.That will probably change before too long. Even though the card I listed is direct x 10, you would not have any problems. Direct x 11 exclusive games will probably not happen for quite some time, so you will be ok.

The motherboard. A good motherboard, made by a good company, with a lot of options. There's also a slot for a second video card, should you decide to go down that road later.

There's a thread here on Win 7 & games. You should check it out!

Yes, this is far and above the budget, CHAOS. K, as I told you at MM, either of the two configurations you mention will more than meet your needs for a long time to come. And as you know, we've tried to tell you there is no such thing as "future proofing" a PC. All you can do is get the most you can within your budget and hope to get as many adventure gaming years out of it as possible. As far as your question about Windows 7 and games, once again, no one can answer as to whether all your games will play or not. It will be on a case-by-case basis, just as it was when XP first came out. Several of us have a thread about Windows 7 and gaming here and the list is slowly growing as to our gaming expreiences. I'm keeping the same thread going at MM. In general, our experiences with games have been pretty positive. You still have all the answers you need in the lengthy thread you have going at MM. I'm simply repeating the answers we have given you there many times.

But it's always good to get more opinions from people like Inland and Jenny here at GB.

Not a problem Drac! Just thought I'd pass it along!

More opinions are always better than too few, Chaos!

True!

Thanks, all - now am waiting to see what Jenny100 and (especially) InlandAZ say about these specs I picked in my post above.

About the CPU: Don't want AMD, thanks, though - really want the Intel quad core - will consider customizing this PC and ordering it from Newegg if I can get a better PC for my money than at EcollegePC as I'm beginning to think that Newegg offers more options than EcollegePC when it comes to customizing your new PC.

Good idea - will see if I can get this version of 7.
Am a NVidia fan. Wish to stick with NVidia - by the time AG's start requiring DX 11, I'm sure NVidia will catch up to these games.
Again, good idea - will look into this.

Might AG's start requiring SLi (2 linked Video cards) in the future (say 5 - 7 yrs from now)?

Or perhaps (at a later date 3 - 4 yrs from now) buy an ATI Radeon vid card for these adventure games that don't support NVidia (if this ever happens) and insert this in the second slot of the motherboard?

Cheers!

I'd put more memory in it. 2GB doesn't seem like much for a computer that's going to be used for gaming or Virtual Machines. I'd put 3GB or 4GB in it. The site you want to order from only lists 2GB or 4GB. With 32-bit Windows I think the most you'll be able to use is around 3.5 GB, but it's still better than 2 GB.

I found ***these reviews*** for the Asrock G31M-S motherboard. It seems to be an older board, though overall the reviews look decent. Maybe Chaos or Inland can tell you more about whether that motherboard seems to be a good low cost board. I'd put a pretty high priority on getting a good motherboard because it's one of the hardest things to replace.

Since you're trying to keep costs down and don't want to build your own, the rest of your configuration looks OK to me. But I'm not really an expert.


I doubt it. Highly unlikely.


No, you can't have one of each. The drivers don't get along.


I never had this problem with XP on my older systems. But it may be that the XP drivers for newer hardware don't work well.

Ok, Jenny - will do.



Again, Ok - will do. BTW, I might have what you call an "expanding budget" - my mom might chip in with the cost and I'll reimburse her over the next several months.

Can you be a bit more specific about the "expanding budget" ? Might help a bit in recommending something for you.

Just emailed my PC-savvy nephew together with a link to this post. I want to get the best gaming/graphic design (for Photoshop/Bryce 3D) but mostly gaming PC I can get.

What's wrong with using your great new Mac Book Pro for the Photoshop/Bryce 3D applications? Those are the kinds of things where the Mac really shines. I can see where you need a new adventure gaming PC, but that new MBP would be an awesome choice for the more demanding software. I don't know about Bryce, but I know the nearly $700 Photoshop you're talking about works on a Mac.

What is the maximum you can afford to spend?
$700? $800? $1000?

Are you specifically looking for a computer that's been configured on the ecollegepc.com website? Or do you have someone who could help you put the computer together yourself?

It seems that the people helping you on the Mystery Manor forum came up with the setup you listed (in your first post this thread) in order to keep the price down, but now you've decided you want a little more after all, and can maybe afford a little more. What is it that you need it to do that you don't think it will do?

Here are the requirements for Bryce 6
http://www.daz3d.com/i/software/bryce/requirements?_m=d

The computer in your first post satisfies these requirements and then some hardwarewise, though they don't list Windows 7 on that page.

Maybe instead of paying extra for a computer with higher specs, you'd be better off saving up for a nice big 24" monitor for your artistic endeavors.

Cruise02 also has a brand new Mac Book Pro with all the bells and whistles. Shouldn't that computer be able to run Bryce and Photoshop? That would leave the new PC to be able to run Adventure Games, which was the original intent - which has always been a moving target.

b/c I'm waiting for my mac-savvy nephew (the one in Michigan) to get me a mac version of Photoshop. I've emailed him about why it was taking him so long to get it and he says I need a 64-bit version of mac photoshop and it's a bit of a challenge for him to find it. About the Bryce 3D I have I d/l for free from Daz3D and after I got my mac I went back to Daz3D for a mac version of the free Bryce (Bryce 5.5) but they didn't have one. But if you can find a free mac version of Bryce 3D, I'd welcome your assistance in getting it.

P.S. Being that Bryce 6 is only $100 (don't know if I'll need the bonus pack or if it can help me create really strange looking buildings/cars/household objects or not) but the bonus pk is only about $20 - $25. CTTOI, I might consider saving up my money for Bryce 6 for mac, too!

I did a search on Free Bryce for Mac and got a bunch of hits. I don't know if any of them would work for you though. Since you have that spiffy new Mac, I'd wait for the nephew to come up with the Photoshop and concentrate on getting a great new PC for your adventure gaming.

No, none of these hits helped me at all. Why do they say "Free Bryce 5.5 for mac" in the listing but when you click on it it turns out to be false? This upsets me to no end!

Ahh well...I guess I'll just have to save up my money after getting that new PC...CTTOI, with Bryce 6 being only $100, I can get this in several of months after buying the new PC - put away $50 1 month, $50 the following month, and the third month, Bingo - I can buy Bryce 6 for mac! With the exp I have to gain by using Bryce 5.5 on my new PC, the wait will be worth it.

I absolutely agree. Use that Mac for what it is really good at!

There really nothing wrong with the configuration at all considering the price. It's more than adequate for gaming.

As Jenny stated, additional memory would be something to think about.

As to future proofing there's really no such thing.

Thanks all - now am waiting for my PC-savvy "Pennsylvania" nephew to get back to me regarding the email I sent him, as well as December so I can put another chunk of money away for this PC, and after I discuss it with my nephew then I'll ask Mom about how much I can spend on this new PC.

Did you folks know that I'll have a 500 GB Iomega Mini external hard drive hooked up to this new PC (I think it's formatted NTFS for XP - don't know if it'll work ok in Windows 7) and if the specs mentioned in my first post in this thread plus the 4 GB memory and the motherboard mentioned by Chaos would be adequate for this external hard drive plus all the other things I've mentioned that I'm going to be doing with this PC?

I don't think you need to worry about your external hard drive working. They usually work automatically on everything from a 5 or 6 year old computer to a brand new one, as long as you have XP or later.

I am wondering whether it would be better to have XP than Windows 7 -- *assuming* you want to play your old games on it as well as your new ones. How many of your older games require a 3D video card? Those might not work so well in emulation. The oldest adventure games should work in Virtual PC (or DOSBox) because they don't need a 3D video card -- so with the oldest games it wouldn't matter if you used XP or Windows 7. The later games which require a 3D card might work natively -- or they might not. Windows 7 is still a bit of an unknown regarding the bulk of older games.

Anyway, you might want to check the specs of your older games to see how many require a 3D video card -- and of those that do, check for information on whether they work on Windows 7. Draclvr and others have been testing Windows 7 and reporting results in ***this thread*** but you may have some that aren't listed there. For those you might need to do an Internet search to see what you can find.

Just read through the "Windows 7 and games" thread. It looks like people were having the most problem running older and even some XP games in Windows 7 64-bit, and a lot of other programs won't work in win 7 - so I'm setting my heart on 32-bit Windows XP. But how do I convince my PC-savvy nephew of this when he's the one who's been pushing me to get Windows 7 in this new PC? But then, he doesn't play games on a computer anymore now that he's 22, has a job, girlfriend, involved in Civil Air Patrol stuff (he's a captain).

Does anyone know if you can order a PC (tower only) without the OS from Newegg?

Tell him that your main reason for buying the computer is playing these old games you have -- and that you're concerned about backwards compatibility with Windows 7 because most of your games haven't been tested in Windows 7. Tell him you want to maximize your chances for playing as many of your old games as possible on your new computer.

You can always buy Windows 7 later, maybe a couple of years down the road if you want it. Or set up a dual boot with both Windows 7 and XP. But for now, XP better suits your needs.

Microsoft is providing critical security updates for XP until 2014 --> ***link***

I couldn't agree more, Jenny. Windows 7 will be an option for quite a while. And a dual boot option is always a possibility. For cruise02's specific needs, I'd go with the 32-bit XP and keep Windows 7 as an option for the future. Her nephew is a Mac guy first and not an adventure gamer second. But he did get her into that excellent Mac Book Pro.

I love my dual boot! Well, triple boot for now until my 32-bit Windows 7 RC expires.

Well, if I get this new PC from the EcollegePC site, the only misgivings I have is I won't be able to get that motherboard specified by Chaos, and it I order the PC from NewEgg, will I be able to get the tower only and Windows XP (or without the OS if XP isn't available)?

Does NewEgg put better quality hardware in the new PC's than does EcollegePC - I wonder?

I don't think NewEgg custom builds PC's (could be wrong though, I've never ordered a complete PC from them).

None the less, ordering a new rig is always a gamble. Configuring them with name brand parts doesn’t ensure they're the same as the boxed retail versions.

I won't mention names, but the OEM of my last purchase won’t be considered for quite some time. Although under the right circumstances I’d probably do it again (it was just a bad PC from the get go).

Newegg does not build custom PCs. Chaos was simply pointing you to some components you might consider if you were actually building it yourself.

The ecollege PC website just builds computers with components you might select yourself. If you are not comfortable with that, just go buy a brand name PC off the shelf.

Quite true Draclvr! Tiger Direct does custom build pc's, but to be honest, you could pretty much build one yourself for what they will charge you.. The main advantage to getting an "off the shelf" pc, is you get a system pretty much set up. The disadvantage is, they come with on board graphics & sound (no real problem for some : on board sound), & to play any games, you almost have to upgrade the video & power supply. Most games out there do not support on board graphics chipsets.

And you won't get XP with an off-the-shelf desktop computer. Just get the one from ecollege. It should be fine, and ecollegepc has much a better score at ***resellerratings.com*** than most name brand computers that you'd buy off the shelf.

I assume you're talking about my "Pennsylvania" nephew. He's the PC-savvy nephew; he's a "go out into the world and get involved" guy first, and not a adventure gamer second, and yep, he's the one who got me this MacBook Pro. I also have a "Michigan" nephew who's the mac-savvy nephew, and he's the one who's going to get me Photoshop.

EDIT - Just checked out that motherboard recommended by Chaos yesterday and I discovered it's an AMD motherboard - I kind of shy away from AMD (just me, I guess). Also, did some digging at EcollegePC on the "Customize" page and found that I can get an Asus motherboard. Will post the final specs/configuration for this new PC later today.

I put together one for my niece at ecollege a couple of days ago using the excellent Gigabyte Intel motherboard I used in my own build this spring. It's just a great board. I think it came up to $647 for hers. I know it's just a familiarity thing, but I tend to stick with Intel myself too.

There's several of them, Drac, which one did you pick - the G31M, the G41M, or the 73PVM?

The Gigabyte GA EP45-UD3L. I think you have to use the Custom Builder option to have it available. I'm sure the ones in the Value Series are fine too.

You're right, Drac - I tried clicking on Custom builder and I found it. But since I'm a wee bit leery of putting together a PC using custom builder, I stuck with the Value Series.

Ok, here we go - I've selected (Value Series, L panel, "Customize Button"):
CPU - 2.6 GHz Intel Core 2 Quad Q8400;
Heatsink/fan - took default;
Motherboard - Gigabyte GA 73PVM;
Memory - default - 2 GB;
Hard drive - default - 500GB 7200 RPM;
CD / DVD / CDRW - default;
Video card - 1 GB GeForce GTS 250;
Operating System - Win XP Home;
Case - Apevia Silver X Dreamer;
Power Supply - 500 Watt Antec Earthwatts EA500;
Networking - default;
Wireless networking - Wireless B/G PCI Adapter;
Sound card - default;
Speakers - none - will use these from current Dell Dimension 8200;
Floppy drive - 1.44 Floppy Drive (I never know when I might order a DOS game from Amazon.com/Ebay that comes on a 3.5" floppy disks);
Keyboard/mouse/card reader/accessories 1 & 2 - none;
Will use the keyboard, mouse, and CRT monitor from the current Dell Dimension.

Warranty - default;

price is now $827.

I'll let Jenny or Inland weigh in, but since you are strictly an adventure gamer , the Q8400 and the video card are WAY more than you need. The power supply is probably more than you need too. But if your budget is that much, there's nothing wrong with the configuration.

Pretty much agree with you Drac!

The cpu, a bit much. A dual core cpu would be better. The video card, ok to a point, if you were also playing some rpg's or some fairly new fps games,but a geforce 9800 would be a bit better for adventure games. The power supply would be ok. Better to have too much, than not have enough!

Cruise02, since you have that great new Mac Book Pro for your other applications, the configuration in your original post here is more than adequate for adventure gaming. Jenny100 and Inland have already weighed in and since this seems to have taken an all too familiar turn for me after months of it at MM, I'm going to leave any further advice to the mods here.

Are you saying that by the time AG's start requiring a quad core, this will probably be a good 10 yrs from now and time to buy a new PC?
Have looked for the GeForce 9800 on the EcollegePC site, but it looks like they don't have it.

Yep, I, too believe it's better to have too much than not have enough.

They have the 1 GB 9600 GT which is even overkill for your needs, but a good buy nevertheless.

Your other question about the CPU has been asked and answered many times over.

If adventure games ever need a quad core cpu, which I doubt highly, then what you have chosen would be ok. By that time, again if ag's ever need quad core, it would be time for a new pc. Quad core cpu's are used mainly by hard core fps players, & for those who do other applications, such as video editing.

There may be a geforce gts 250 with 512 mb of ram on ecollege pc's web site. Found one on newegg: Here

Just got an e-mail about your post Drac! Hi! I just saw the geforce 9600gt on the ecollege web site. The price difference between that, & the gts 250 1gb is about $60. With that small of a price difference, it would be better to go with the gts 250.

How are the XP drivers for the GTS 256?

The gts 250 you mean? I've heard lots of good things about them!! The drivers are stable, far as I know. As I understand it, the gts 250 is a reworked 9800 series. As I further understand it, the first 9800 series cards had problems with fluctuating clock speeds, & power issues, that caused the cards to get too hot & go bad as a result.. My 9800 gtx+ has no problems at all. Maybe I got lucky!

Thanks, I'll take out the quad core and keep the GTS 250.
But what's the difference between a dual core and a core 2 duo - won't AG's start requiring a 2.9 - 3 GHz Core 2 Duo in 4 - 5 yrs? My mac is a 3 GHz Core 2 Duo, and isn't it true that if I had kept Windows XP in it I'd be able to run all the latest/upcoming AG's in it for a much longer period of time than if I got the E6300 CPU in this new PC I'm hoping to buy? This was my motive in selecting the 3GHz Core 2 Duo E8400 CPU. I recall Robert telling me that the E6300 CPU will keep running all my AG's for yrs to come without breaking into a sweat - but I don't now how long it will be (estimate?) before the E6300 CPU becomes outdated - perhaps then it'll be a long enough time to warrant buying a new PC?

Here's my updated specs:
Ok, here we go - I've selected (Value Series, L panel, "Customize Button"):
CPU - 2.8 GHz Dual Core E6300;
Heatsink/fan - took default;
Motherboard - Gigabyte GA 73PVM;
Memory - default - 2 GB;
Hard drive - default - 500GB 7200 RPM;
CD / DVD / CDRW - default;
Video card - 1 GB GeForce GTS 250;
Operating System - none - will use the XP OS install disc that I used when I put XP on my mac;
Case - Apevia Silver X Dreamer;
Power Supply - 500 Watt Antec Earthwatts EA500;
Networking - default;
Wireless networking - Wireless B/G PCI Adapter;
Sound card - default;
Speakers - none - will use these from current Dell Dimension 8200;
Floppy drive - 1.44 Floppy Drive (I never know when I might order a DOS game from Amazon.com/Ebay that comes on a 3.5" floppy disks);
Keyboard/mouse/card reader/accessories 1 & 2 - none;
Will use the keyboard, mouse, and CRT monitor from the current Dell Dimension.

Warranty - default;

price is now $632.

and if I took out the Dual Core E6300 and added the 2.9 GHz Core 2 Duo E7500, the price goes to $671.

The way it's worded.

Pardon me - I don't quite understand?

Still the same cpu (dual core), just presented differently.

There's not much difference between the 2.8 GHz Dual Core and 3 GHz Dual Core (Core 2 Duo) when it comes to running these latest/upcoming AG's within the next 6 - 8 yrs, is there?

Minimal, if any at all.

Here's final, final, final specs:
- I've selected (Value Series, L panel, "Customize Button"):

CPU - 2.8 GHz Dual Core E6300;
Heatsink/fan - took default;
Motherboard - Gigabyte GA 73PVM;
Memory - default - 2 GB;
Hard drive - default - 500GB 7200 RPM;
CD / DVD / CDRW - default;
Video card - 1 GB GeForce GTS 250;
Operating System - none - will use the XP OS install disc that I used when I put XP on my mac;
Case - Apevia Silver X Dreamer;
Power Supply - 500 Watt Antec Earthwatts EA500;
Networking - default;
Wireless networking - Wireless B/G PCI Adapter;
Sound card - default;
Speakers - none - will use these from current Dell Dimension 8200;
Floppy drive - 1.44 Floppy Drive (I never know when I might order a DOS game from Amazon.com/Ebay that comes on a 3.5" floppy disks);
Keyboard/mouse/card reader/accessories 1 & 2 - none;
Will use the keyboard, mouse, and CRT monitor from the current Dell Dimension.

Warranty - default;

price is now $632.

Talked to Mom about getting it for Xmas and she told me "after the holidays" so I said "how about first week in Jan?"
Mom said "sounds good"

Maybe Jenny or Inland will know for sure, but I don't think you can use that XP install disk again, even if it was inside a Mac OS.

This build is back down to planet earth as far as your adventure gaming goes. The Video card is still overkill for adventure gaming, but if you want to spend the money....

As long as it was a retail boxed version of XP, and not an OEM version, you are allowed to transfer it to a different computer provided XP is no longer installed on the original computer.

I'd still suggest buying the computer with XP already installed unless you enjoy fussing with drivers for newer hardware. There's also the problem with AHCI drivers (Intel Matrix Storage Drivers) that you'll probably have to contend with. They have to either be loaded prior to the installation or slipstreamed into an existing XP image and burned to a new install disc. Otherwise you boot to a black screen after installation because the system can't find the hard drive. Alternatively you could disable AHCI functionality in the BIOS and do without the advanced AHCI features. And in some cases you can copy the AHCI drivers to the hard drive before the install.

Do a Google search for
XP AHCI drivers
to find out more about what I'm talking about.

Thanks, Jen - will do - here's final, final, final, superfinal specs:
- I've selected (Value Series, L panel, "Customize Button"):

CPU - 2.8 GHz Dual Core E6300;
Heatsink/fan - took default;
Motherboard - Gigabyte GA 73PVM;
Memory - default - 2 GB;
Hard drive - default - 500GB 7200 RPM;
CD / DVD / CDRW - default;
Video card - 1 GB GeForce GTS 250;
Operating System - MS Windows XP Home_sp3;
Case - Apevia Silver X Dreamer;
Power Supply - 500 Watt Antec Earthwatts EA500;
Networking - default;
Wireless networking - Wireless B/G PCI Adapter;
Sound card - default;
Speakers - none - will use these from current Dell Dimension 8200;
Floppy drive - 1.44 Floppy Drive (I never know when I might order a DOS game from Amazon.com/Ebay that comes on a 3.5" floppy disks);
Keyboard/mouse/card reader/accessories 1 & 2 - none;
Will use the keyboard, mouse, and CRT monitor from the current Dell Dimension.

Warranty - default;

price is now $731.

I'm concerned that if I wait until the first week in Jan. to order this PC, the Windows XP option might no longer be available - this is why I want to get this computer this month?

Thanks for the answer, Jenny. I've heard several different opinions about the differences between retail and OEM versions as far as moving from one computer to another, so I wasn't sure. Someone told me I should never have been able to install that old HP hard drive to my new MOBO because the XP OS was OEM. Go figure.

A possibility would be to ask the folks at ecollege PC if they send the driver CD for the motherboard with the drivers Jenny mentions. I just installed the Gigabyte drivers on my XP drive and after some serious tweaking in the BIOS, it now boots up perfectly.

As you've been told many times before, there will be no problem with getting XP after January 1 unless ecollege stops offering it. The OS will be supported for a few years yet. If you are concerned about it, contact ecollege and ask.

Contacted EcollegePC last night and got this email from them:



So it looks like I have absolutely nothing to worry about.

K515 you could also get an external floppy drive, my three year old one came with a floppy that I didn't use much at all and it is now defunct. Tech told me if you don't use them, they don't last, go figure. A lot does depend on your climate though, ours is very damp.

You should definitely have a cd for your motherboard, everytime I have had to reload Windows it is the first thing I have to do. Mine has the drivers for network, audio and something else that is necessary for the computer to work properly. If I don't do it I can't even get it back online, has happened to me before, even with the cd.

Hope Mom doesn't change her mind.

Hawka, I didn't know that I'd need a CD for the motherboard - I've never even heard of this. Why would I need a CD for the motherboard? Every PC I've used (from the old Packard-Bell to the CTX to the Dell Dimension) never had to have this. Is this something new?

No, this is something old. You've always purchased brand name computers with everything put together they way they want. This time you're purchasing a computer that has been built by someone. It's the same as when I built mine last spring. Motherboards need drivers for things like their on-board sound or video or other components. Mine has 7 or 8 different driver sets that it installs.

Won't ecollegepc install the drivers? The driver CD would be useful to have if you ever have to reinstall Windows, but as long as you buy the computer from them with Windows preinstalled, they should install all necessary drivers.

True. But as it's been stated, it would be nice to have the driver cd for the mobo & for Windows itself. On the chance a fresh Windows install is needed, without the mobo install cd,unless you already have the mobo drivers downloaded, or without a partition on the hd for a system recovery, you're pretty much S.O.L . Best to have physical copies of Windows, & the mobo cd.

And as Mike from ecollege pc responded to Cruise02 in her post above, all the disks are included with the computer and if they install the OS, all the drivers are loaded up and the computer is ready to go.

Hope this doesn't confuse you Cruise, but a tech told me about this some time ago (tattooing), it kind of explains the different kinds of OS (restore cd) you get with a package, like HP, Dell, etc. Here are two links, one is a forum, the other some sort of geek place. My desktop is a Systemax, not a brand name but built from components at CompUSA online. The stores didn't carry them, just brand names. It came with MB and OS cd's among others.

Links: http://www.geek.com/forums/topic/changing-motherboard-and-hard-drive-in-hp-computer

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-motherboard-tattoo.htm

If you want to learn more, Google motherboard tattoo. Pretty interesting.

Needing the MB drivers CD is making all this sound like a headache - what if I have to reformat the hard drive (malware infestation) and reinstall XP? Won't the computer be completely dead without the motherboard drivers if I have to reinstall the MB drivers, then this driver, that driver, install the OS, then install more drivers?

This is beginning to sound like an article for "MAD" magazine. Am feeling intimidated by all this in case I have to reformat and reinstall XP on this new PC.

EDIT - just skimmed over the links you gave me, Hawka - think it means I can't even upgrade this PC if need be?

With the massive amounts of advice you've been given about how NOT to ever get infested with malware ever again, you should not have to worry about that problem.

But should you ever need to reinstall your OS, you will now not have to worry about not having the drivers for your motherboard.

Cruise02 you worry too much.
Your computer will be fine, and if you ever need to reformat/reinstall, we'll help you through it. The only tricky part is the Intel Matrix Storage drivers -- and for all you know, Ecollege PC will send an XP disc where they've already been slipstreamed into the install. The rest of the drivers are installed after XP, and you'll have a disc for that that should make it easy.

There shouldn't be any problem with upgrading your PC if you decide to do so. EcollegePC wouldn't be doing any "motherboard tattooing." That's more of something you'd find with a Dell PC -- where the Windows disc from Dell only works on a Dell.

The Matrix Storage drivers are only an issue with XP - Vista and 7 have no problems what so ever (at least on the PC's I've set up recently).

Every OEM (that I've dealt with) has always provided the Mobo drivers on a separate disc - it's really not a problem (just remember to store it in a safe place).

Cruise, yes stop worrying and fretting about what "might happen". I personally have reformatted and reinstalled Windows XP at least five times on my desktop. I finally took the hard drive back as it tested bad and "knock wood" since it is has been fine. Mentioned the tattooing as to what you would not have in the computer you want. Any built computer is fully upgradeable, mine was and has been.

Yes Inland is right, don't misplace it, I keep all of mine in a ziplock bag near my computer. I also keep note of what is installed so I can put every thing back.

Found 2 at Office Depot -
http://www.officedepot.com/a/products/146010/Lenovo-ThinkPlus-USB-Portable-Floppy-Drive/
This one's cheaper and the description says its for a Think Pad - it's for 3.5" floppies and is compatible with Win 98/ME/2000, so don't know if it'll work on that new desktop PC I'm hoping to buy next month though;

I'm leaning more towards this (in the above link) one than the one below (in the following link)

and here's another one but it costs a bit more
http://www.officedepot.com/a/products/188770/IBM-USB-Portable-Floppy-disk-drive/
Will consider following your advice, Hawka - which external floppy drive should I get? I have a $25 reward card that I can use towards this drive.

Is the floppy drive in your 3 yr old PC defunct because you didn't use it much? And if I bought this external floppy drive I linked you to above, how would this be better than a built-in floppy drive considering I'll probably use it occasionally - I mean, even if I bought this external floppy drive and use this occasionally, won't this become defunct like the floppy drive in your 3 yr old PC did?

Those USB floppy drives from Office Depot are way overpriced.
Get one from Newegg or Amazon.
Paying more than $20 or $30 for a USB floppy drive is unnecessary.

Plus, ecollege will add one to your PC for $10.

Even better.

I don't have an external floppy cause I don't need it for anything now. The internal one on the desktop died from lack of use, again cause I don't use it. I suppose if I ever want to look at the pics I have on floppies I will buy one. At least an external can be used on more than one computer.

Anyway you don't live where it rains 50+ inches a year do you, dampness kills electronics. Maybe when used a lot they stay dry.

Thanks for enlightening me, Hawka - I didn't know that it rains a lot where you live.

I live in the Pittsburgh area - West Mifflin to be specific.

So, people, Hawka said that her floppy drive died from lack of use - will this happen to the one that I'm going to have put into my PC from EcollegePC considering I'll probably use it occasionally - rarely?

I doubt it.
If you're worried, just give it a little exercise once in a while.
Do you have many floppy games?

Yes - I have several -
Star Wars X Wing;
Where is Carmen Sandiego - USA;
" " " - World;
" " " - Space;
SimAnt;
Rex Nebular & Cosmic Gender Bender (don't know if I'll ever want to play this again, though);
MS Space Simulator;
and I never know if/when I'll order an old game (DOS/Win 3.xx) that comes on floppies, so I want to keep this option open.

I have a floppy in my 10 year old computer that still works like the day I got it. I wouldn't worry about it. Just have ecollege pc put one in for you and use it once in awhile.

You should do what I do. Floppies are unreliable media. burn them to optical media. The first thing that I do when I get a copy of an older game on floppy is to copy the contents to the hard drive and when I have enough I will burn to disc. Not perfect archival media, but far better than floppies.

What I've found is that the floppies themselves simply quit working VERY often.

One of the wonders of living in the paradise of Hawaii, especially this island, on the east side where we have our cabin is can rain 3 times as much up to 150 inches a year. I hear this about other things, such as my sewing machine, just use it, I didn't, my mistake. Rosaboobie who lives in Africa has the same problems with her computers/laptops because of the high humidity.

I use WinImage to make floppy images of my floppies, put these in my Old Games folder, extract the contents of the floppy images into each specific game directory (game folder), and burn the whole Old Games folder onto a DVD+RW, mount Old Games folder as the C drive of DOSbox, and install the games this way.

But still, I'd like to keep a floppy drive around just in case I happen to order a game that comes on floppies - but I think my family might try to talk me out of having EcollegePC add a floppy drive to the computer, so how do I convince them of the merits of having a floppy drive added to this new PC?

Why not just purchase a USB floppy drive and port it to any PC in the house?

USB Floppy Drives

That's a very good idea. We have one that we use on both laptops and our desktop. It's so rare to have to use it- but very now and then it does come in handy and I like the fact I can use it on all my machines.

They'd stop you from buying the PC over a $10 floppy drive? Come on....

I'd rather have EcollegePC add the floppy drive to the PC because at our house, Mom has a PC but I don't play games on hers, and although I'm going to have a total of 3 computers, my laptop is a Macbook Pro which I don't play games on, but just *will* do graphic design (photoshop, bryce) on, and I'll have 2 computers - this new PC from EcollegePC, and an Inspiron netbook with an Atom processor and a 16 GB hard drive with which to play all my games on. What's the merits of having an external floppy drive (I feel like I'm bouncing back and forth between adding floppy drive to the PC vs buying external floppy drive here) if I can have EcollegePC add a floppy drive to the new PC, use WinImage to create floppy images to put into a DOSbox game folder and mount this DOSbox game folder as the a: drive in DOSbox and install a game in this manner into my netbook's DOSbox?

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Just realized something: I can get a floppy drive cheaper (for $10) if I have EcollegePC add one to this new PC I'm ordering next month, whereas if I don't go this route and I buy an external floppy drive it'll cost me more ($40 -$80 - extra money better spent on games instead of wasting it thus).

So my decision is this - I'm forgoing buying an external floppy drive and am going to have EcollegePC add one to my new PC come January.

The only real benefit is that it can be ported to every PC in the house (including the Mac's). I suspect the additional $10.00 isn’t going to break the bank (so to speak). Even if you purchased and installed an add-on unit, you’d still spend more than that when you included shipping.

Right - it's not. I'll still have plenty of money left over after spending this extra $10.


Are you talking about a floppy drive that is mounted inside the PC tower?

Yes, an internal drive - it'll run you about $15.00 including shipping.

Or $10 if ecollege installs it for her.

**Update**

Yesterday: Told Mom that I'd rather our PC-savvy neighbor, David (David's taking a computer course at local community college) order this PC, showed David the final specs in my latest post in this thread here at GB, David agreed, but Mom told me I'd have to wait until "several more months", furthermore, David told Mom & I that he's going to check everything out in Jan/Feb. and he's going to find me the best PC and it'll have Windows XP in it.

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12/26/09 update -

Asked Mom about if David is currently looking for a new PC for me and Mom told me that the new PC's come out in Feb. Any Idea of which week/date in Feb?

There are no new PCs coming out in February. All the really good deals on PCs are going on right now in the before and after Christmas sales. Remember if you get a new PC (not one built by ecollege), you will not be able to get XP. Dell may still sell a few of them, but I'm not sure.

I suspect what Cruise02's Mom really means is that she hopes to have the money for Cruise02's new PC in February.

I suspect you're correct, Jenny, and that she just misunderstood her mom.

Yep, you turned out to be correct about this, Jenny and Drac. So while waiting for Feb. to come, I kept remembering that happy New Year's Eve 2005/06 that I had after coming home from one of my Christmas outings and using my old HP Compaq Presario X6000 laptop to play NiBiRu - and boy was I happy! And that netbook I have cannot play games like NiBiRu nor games like Heaven/Nikopol because it lacks a 3D card, and btw its hard drive is way too small - so I'm thinking I'd like to either forgo this new desktop PC we've been discussing so far and think about getting a 13"-14" laptop (or wait for 6 months and then get this desktop PC) with an Intel processor, NVida graphics card that's above the GeForce 9500, a roomy hard drive, wireless internet (for games requiring net activation), and 32-bit Windows XP, and weigh about 5 LBs or less. I only want to spend about $600 on this laptop because I'll probably have to replace it every 4 - 5 years as new games are released that I'd like to play, and this laptop becomes outdated, plus I think around spending $600/laptop warrants replacing it every half decade, while spending $1000+/laptop precludes replacing it every 4 - 5 years.

EDIT but now that I think about it, I have over 100 games (well maybe 101-2, give or take a few) and over 500 DVD movies to play on VLC for Windows XP so I might as well start holding off on buying new games after this new laptop becomes outdated in 5 years, catch up on playing all these games I currently have, plus the recent releases, and once these are all played and completed, then shell out another $600 or so for another laptop.

I think you should wait until you have the money and get the Desktop. The desktop can be updated, the laptop can't. To expect a $600 laptop to last 5 years is overly optimistic unless you are satisfied with only playing some old games (not all).

Exactly what do you mean by this, Jenny? Can't I play all my old games on it in VPC/VMware Player/DOSbox? How long should I expect a $600 laptop to last before it becomes outdated - wouldn't this warrant spending another $600 for a new one when this one becomes obsolute?

cruise02, you won't get much of a laptop for $600 to start with. In that price range, the video will most likely be an integrated GMA (graphics media accelerator) and may not play games very well at all - old or new. You won't get XP either. I thought the reason for getting a new computer in your first post was because your old Dell wouldn't play most of the new games. If all you want to do is play old games, the Dell will do that.

I agree with Jenny that the desktop which can be upgraded as you need is a much better choice.

Well, each time I remember that happy New Year's Eve of 2005/06 playing NiBiRu, it makes me want to give up that netbook that I currently have in favor of a 13"-14" laptop that weighs not more than around 5 lbs. so I could put it, a game or 2, couple of w/t/strategy books into my backpack and take it with me to the mall to play games - could we have a good discussion about this, please, vs. keeping the netbook and using this at the mall and getting that desktop PC because the more I think of gaming on that new desktop PC I understand that I'd be confined to my office upstairs in our house when my heart's desire is to get a good laptop with a good 3D card and use it to game at the mall because I like a change of scenery (for the past 10 years I used to dream of gaming at the mall with a laptop) which makes me feel more motivated to play my games to completion rather than sit around the house, fall into a lazy rut and lose my motivation to play these games I have which is much more likely to happen (and this has happened already) if I'm stuck with gaming on a desktop in the same place (my office) day after day after day (repeat), and this, I believe, is why I get bored and I lose my motivation to game at home.

P.S. If my memory serves me well, I think I remember that my parents let me bring my old laptop with me when we went to my sister's house where I sat contented, gaming during the Christmas holidays that year and that I might have also taken this laptop and a game to a friend's house to game a bit there later Christmas week, and all of this served as a change of scenery (as well as gaming in the kitchen on New Year's Eve) which heightened my motivation to game quite a bit.

The reason I'm explaining all this in the first place is because during the first week of January when Mom told me to wait until Feb. is I did some really hard thinking about the next several months after getting that new desktop PC - since I'll probably be going to the mall quite often I'll likely be gaming at the mall all day and basically I'd be neglecting the new desktop PC I brought in Feb., because when I come home I'd want to go on my mac and edit pictures in Photoshop until bedtime, and I likely won't be using the new desktop PC that much; thus I can hear Mom telling me 3 - 5 months down the road, "I let you buy that new desktop PC. But are you using it? No! You're taking your netbook to the mall almost every day, and when you come home, you go on your mac to edit pictures! I'm sorry I let you buy that desktop PC!"

Can't Windows XP be installed over Windows 7 so as to overwrite the Windows 7 OS (except the drivers) with Windows XP OS? I read somewhere in the tech forum here at GB (think it was in the Games and Windows 7 thread) recently where someone posted that this company they knew bought all new computers that had Vista/Windows 7 but all the workers were used to using Windows XP so the company loaded all the Vista/Windows 7 drivers into their computers and they installed Windows XP on all their computers over Vista/Windows 7 and overwrote the new OS with XP - would I be able to do this if I get a new laptop with Windows 7 32-bit?

With all this said, can't I just replace the video card in the old Dell Dimension (that's the only piece of hardware that's been failing) to stretch usage out of it for as long as possible, save up for a new laptop with a good 3D card, and give up the netbook (as I've found that I'm not too happy with it as it cannot play games like Heaven/Rhiannon/NiBiRu)?

Or if I elect to buy the new desktop PC, and I still want to buy a new laptop PC later on and give up the netbook, how do I explain all this to my non-PC-savvy mom so she'd understand (and hopefully agree) since if I try to talk to her about computer stuff she has absolutely no idea in the world what I'm talking about?

Thanks for warning me away from spending $600 on a new laptop, Drac - you're like a Big Sister watching over me when it comes to computers - since I'm seriously considering buying a windows laptop PC to take with me to the mall, I now realize that if I spent $600 on a laptop I'd have "purchase regret" later on and by then it'd be too late to correct my mistake, so now I'm thinking, how much should I budget for a 5-lb. laptop with an Intel core, a NVida video card and max out the years that it'll be adequate for running the latest AG releases and yet not pay too much for it?

I haven't played Heaven or Rhiannon - but... Games like Nibiru just won't play on newer OS's (it doesn't matter what hardware you throw at it).

If you're looking for a PC that will play everything - you’re just not going to find it - there are too many variables involved.

Edit -

As to the Dell - maybe and maybe not. It all depends on your upgrade path, and how deep your pockets go. Upgrading a video card can involve upgrading other components too.

It sounds like you want to buy a PC that plays everything and they just don't make such a thing.

What would you do if you encountered the problem described in Snyderm's post ***here***?
It's a very common problem with installing XP on modern laptops that use SATA hard drives.

And your work won't be finished if you do manage to install XP. You'll still have to find XP drivers for the parts inside the laptop -- motherboard drivers, network card drivers, sound drivers, video drivers, USB drivers, etc. In fact, you should download those drivers and burn them to a CDR before attempting to install XP. Remember XP came out many years before current laptops, and the XP disc won't have drivers for such new hardware. Vista and Windows 7 drivers may or may not work with XP. And 64-bit drivers probably won't work on a 32-bit operating system.


Keep in mind that these were professional IT people installing Windows XP. If any problems came up during the install, they'd know how to go about troubleshooting. And those computers would never have to face playing computer games, which can be very particular about drivers. It would be easier to build a new computer from scratch than to get XP working on a gaming laptop that wasn't designed for XP, and for which the manufacturer has not provided XP drivers.


That's probably a problem with the fixed 4:3 aspect ratio used in the games. Your netbook probably can't display the non-widescreen images. Rhiannon doesn't even need a 3D video card -- just basic SVGA 32-bit graphics.


Especially not in a laptop.

In general I'd have to agree. I've had really good luck with my own, but they can be problematic at times.

You'll need to shell out a fair amount of cash to get a good gaming laptop (and it still doesn't guarantee every game will play).

can you recommend some - but I don't want to have to pay like $1500 - $2000 - I just found this one for less than $1000 here at Best Buy

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Asus+-+Laptop+with+Intel%26%23174%3B+Core%26%23153%3B2+Duo+Processor+-+Blue/Black/9556072.p?id=1218124204092&skuId=9556072

it's 16", weighs 7.5 lbs, is a Core 2 Duo, with NVida graphics card, - it's close to what I want but it was Windows 7 64-bit, so I guess in that case I won't bother with trying to install Windows XP over Windows 7, I'll just use Windows XP compatibility mode or/and create a Windows XP VM using VMware Player and try to get the experimental 3D graphics thingy working in VMware Player.

EDIT Why isn't the link I put in to the Asus gaming laptop costing $899 at Best Buy working? I copied/pasted the complete website address.


I understand, but anyway, I'm hoping the one I buy will play all the games in my collection (via older OS'es in VPC/VMware Player/DOSbox even it it won't play everything, as I don't play FPS, the latest RPG's and all these other action-heavy games out there.

With links that long, it works better to use the "link maker" icon.

Asus Laptop at Best Buy

Can I assume you family is no longer going to allow you to install XP on that great new MacBook Pro you got last year? That would be your best solution for your desire to game at the mall, as you already have a good laptop and don't really need another one.

Pardon me - how do you use a "link marker" icon? - Oh! I see now - it's that little picture of the earth with a chain link below it - but I don't quite understand how to use it?

It's really easy. Just right click and copy your link, click on the "earth icon," paste your link in the first screen and in the second one, type in the words you want to name it.

Yes, that's true, Drac. Besides, Mom won't let me take the mac to the mall even if she did allow me to have windows on it because it cost over $2000 and she's afraid someone could steal it, it could get bumped against something, etc. and I just asked her now if I bought a new laptop (this Asus gamer) for under $1000 would I be allowed to take it to the mall and she told me, "she doesn't know yet; let's wait and see."

While the chance exists that someone might steal the MBP or it could get bumped, the chances are just as great with a $900+ Asus laptop.

7.2 pounds in addition to whatever the power adapter weighs. On battery you'll only be able to play an hour or so unless you're only playing games with very low system requirements. So you'll probably want to bring the power adapter. Along with a laptop case for it, you'll probably be dragging about 10 pounds around. What happens if you see something else at the mall you want to do? You'll be lugging this laptop around, having to be extra careful you don't bump it or put it down where it can get swiped. I can see that getting old really quick. You'd end up leaving the laptop at home when you went to the mall, and you'd have paid extra for something slower and less compatible than the desktop you could have had.

Do you mean lugging the extra weight around in my backpack when I leave the Food Court and go up to the 3rd level of the mall to the comic book store or Cash-In Culture, or down to the first level to Fye's - man, that's like carrying around several thick college textbooks around in my backpack, not to mention if I want to walk around in the mall between gaming sessions - even if I do find a reliable way to get to the mall and back home on a regular basis so I will not have to take the bus?

Are you saying that when I get tired of having to carry around the extra weight in my backpack, I'm going to start wishing I had kept that netbook that I gave up in favor of the laptop, and I might regret buying that laptop and not that desktop pc?

Yes.

Ok, Jenny, I'll keep the netbook and go for that desktop PC. In fact, today when I asked Mom about buying a new laptop and giving up the netbook earlier today, she pointed out that I wanted that netbook real bad, so I told her now that I'll keep the netbook, to which Mom agreed and replied, "You don't know when you have it good."

But I was thinking of when I do use the netbook to game at the mall and then when I come home won't I be so busy editing photos in Photoshop on my mac that I'd neglect the new desktop PC?

to restate my scenario:
I likely won't be using the new desktop PC that much; thus I can hear Mom telling me 3 - 5 months down the road, "I let you buy that new desktop PC. But are you using it? No! You're taking your netbook to the mall almost every day, and when you come home, you go on your mac to edit pictures! I'm sorry I let you buy that desktop PC!"

What are the chances of the above scenario coming true?

Only you can answer that question, cruise02.

Probably about the same as your getting the laptop, being disappointed with which games you can play, getting tired of lugging it to the mall, and having your mother asking you why you never use it anymore. You may find yourself regretting not getting XP. But a few months down the road, when your mother has enough money to buy you a 4th computer, XP may not be available on a new computer anymore -- even at places like eCollege.

I thought taking screenshots in games and editing them for the backgrounds in your comics was one of the reasons you played adventure games. Assuming that is the case, doesn't it make sense to maximize your chances of playing as many different adventure games as possible?

If you decide to get the laptop, make sure there are electric outlets at the mall that you can use (or your playing time will be very limited). Also be prepared for the number of games that won't work on a Windows 7 64-bit system, or that won't work with the drivers for the emulated video card inside of VMware.

I'm assuming that I'll be disappointed in the laptop as it'll have 64-bit Windows 7, and I won't be able to play some of the games that I used to play in the past on it as well as some newer games?

My PC-savvy nephew and our PC-savvy neighbor are both looking for a good desktop PC for me has an Intel processor, Windows XP 32-bit, and an NVida video card.


Yes, I do take screenshots from my games and I edit them for the backgrounds in my comics, so yes, I want to maximize my chances of playing as many different AG's as I can by getting the desktop PC and forgoing that laptop.

btw, even if I do have a dependable way of getting to the mall and back (I'm working on this) without having to take the bus, I won't be going to the mall every day, so on days that I stay home I'll be using that desktop PC that I bought.

Perhaps after I buy the desktop next month, I can save up for a new netbook that has a bigger hard drive, since the 16 GB hard drive in my current netbook is getting full since I have VMware Player with my 4 GB Win 98SE VM, VPC, DOSbox, several old games that're installed in VMware player, VPC, & DOSbox, plus a bunch of screenshot folders for several games and several DVD movies?

I found this netbook at Best Buy with Win XP and a 160 GB hard drive here Asus Eee PC netbook

Cruise02 as you know my Asus that I bought last April is very similar to the link Draclvr posted for you. Yes it plays games very nicely, yes very heavy and yes, horrible battery life. Plus to add to the weight, unless you want to blow the laptop, you would need a cooler. The one I have isn't heavy, plugs into the laptop by USB, but it is another thing to stuff into the bag. The only place I take mine is to our cabin where we have solar electricity and it is a chore to just drag it from the car. Mine sits on a desk, on the cooler and I use headphones as the sound isn't all that great. Mine is Vista and has the Nvidia 9800 and I am very happy with it.

I think netbooks are more for surfing the web, otherwise they would come with a drive for games and movies. My granddaughter got one for Christmas, spoiled brat, she has a DVD drive so she can watch movies on long drives, etc. Her one gripe is that you have to scroll side to side to see the whole page.

Personally I say get the desktop, maybe you should put it in another room of the house. I would love to have an area of my own again, so much easier to concentrate. Maybe you should switch around, comics one day, games another.

I was wondering about your Asus gamer, Hawka, but I'm going to forgo that laptop Drac linked me to and get the desktop and hopefully a better netbook (he Asus Eee PC netbook) that has a better keyboard (2 "alt" keys, top-row function keys, 160 GB hard drive) since my current netbook (got it from nephew this past Sept.) has a keyboard with left "alt" key only, function keys are combined into regular keys, hard drive is 16 GB and it's filling up really fast, in fact, too fast as I not only play older games on it (DOS/Win 95/98) which I do screenshot captures of, plus I do screenshot captures chapter-by-chapter from several DVD movies on this netbook, but I also have VPC, DOSbox, and VMware Player with it's 4.7 GB Win 98SE VM included on this netbook's tiny hard drive. And that left "alt" key is a problem when I'm installing win 98SE onto VPC 2004 (but that's another story).

The reason that I'm forgoing the Asus laptop is b/c Jenny100 helped me to realize that I'd soon get tired of lugging it around in my backpack while at the mall because of the extra weight (game strategy guides, games, 7 lb. Asus laptop = 10 lbs.) in my backpack, and if I'd need a cooler - forget that! Too much extra stuff to carry around - I want to travel light, and also b/c Jenny helped me realize that I'd be very disappointed in the Asus laptop if I bought it instead of the desktop (to see why, please see my post(s) above).

Yes, that's what I'm going to do, Hawka - I'm back to getting the desktop, with 32-bit Windows XP, NVida graphics card, Intel processor, 500 GB hard drive, DL DVD burner. I'm going to put the new desktop upstairs in my office, and it'll replace the old Dell Dimension 8200 tower that I currently have in my office, and hopefully, I can sell the old Dell Dimension tower and get enough money to buy myself that Asus Eee PC netbook that I have my eye on - it's described farther up in this post.

I was going to suggest upgrading the hard drive in the netbook. But since your netbook doesn't have all the keys you need, you might as well get a new one. Maybe you can sell the old one once you copy all your stored data off of it.

Sounds like a good idea, Jenny - I have a friend whose brother (AFAIK he's a gamer) might be interested in my old netbook, which is a Dell Inspiron w/ Win XP. How much do you think I can get for it?

Not to mention maybe selling the old Dell Dimension 8200 tower after I get my new desktop PC tower - but first, I'll have to talk it over with Mom.

We can talk more about these computers next month (Mom's "January 2010" rule), ok?

You'd probably get more for the netbook than for the Dell 8200. To get an idea of what it's worth, I checked ***completed auctions for the Dell 8200 at ebay*** and they seem to average between $50 and $75. You might be better off keeping the old Dell 8200 as a backup.

Well, tomorrow these new computers will be (hopefully) about 2 weeks (give or take several days) away!

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Just remembered something: If I get a desktop PC with 32-bit Win XP from a place other than EcollegePC, how will I be able to upgrade it (if need be) if the motherboard is going to be tattooed?

You can buy a retail Windows disc (from Amazon or Newegg or wherever) and use it with any computer that has the required specs.

Motherboard tattooing would prevent you from using a Dell Windows disc with a computer that wasn't a Dell (or an HP disc with a computer that wasn't an HP, etc.)

Today while in WalMart McDonald's while setting up my netbook, the external DVD drive that was hooked up to it, the game CD case, the strategy guide, the mouse and its pad, plus my hot tea, I realized that if I gave up the netbook in favor of that laptop I was thinking of getting, I wouldn't have any room on the table (at places where I sit at a 2-seater table) to put my hot tea, the ice needed to bring it to the drinking temperature (it's hot enough to burn my tongue), the spoon, and I'd be more likely to spill my tea on the floor (too close to edge of table) or I'd have to put the tea behind the laptop and risk accidentally spilling liquid onto the keyboard as I rise, reach behind the PC, and bring my tea to the front to drink, plus it'd be more uncomfortable for me, I'd soon get tired of this and again regret not getting a new netbook to take out with me.

How many of you agree that this is true?

Would this prevent me from installing Win 98SE as a guest OS into VPC/VMware Player?

And, are the new netbooks (the Asus Eee PC) motherboards tatoooed?

Don't sit at a 2 seater table

No. Not at all.


Possibly. But that wouldn't affect what you were going to do with it. The one you were looking at will come with XP, won't it? And you can put Windows 98 inside VPC/VMware.

Yes. I'm hoping Mom will let me buy it next month in addition to the desktop PC, she'll pay for it and I'll reimburse her. Maybe if I stay quiet as a mouse for the next 2 weeks?

Good idea!!

The Asus Eee PC netbook I was looking at is no longer in stock. Apparently it got sold out. But I found this one costing less than $300. It, too, has XP Home, and that better keyboard that I want. The new Asus Eee PC netbook I found @ Best Buy

It's available online only (sigh) As long as I get it, doesn't matter if I order online or buy it in-store - only 12 (not counting today) more days until Feb. 1!

Is Win XP Home the 32-bit version of XP?

Jenny, will the Intel UMA graphics which shares 224 MG of memory on this netbook play ANYTHING? I might be wrong, but as I understand it, these netbooks are simply not meant for gaming.

Couldn't wait, so this afternoon I asked Mom about it, and she told me to email my PC-savvy nephew to check it out.

Will let you guys (and gals) know as soon as I hear from this nephew/Mom.

Yes. Almost any XP you find will be 32-bit. If you were buying a computer with 64-bit XP, they'd be advertising it and you'd be paying extra for it. XP Home is 32-bit.


It will play anything she's currently playing on her netbook in VPC and VMware (or ScummVM or DOSBox). It won't play most recent adventure games. The only advantages over her current netbook are the larger hard drive and the keyboard including all the keys she wants.

Looking at the differences between ***the blue netbook that's sold out*** and ***the white one***, the white one only has a 3-cell battery while the blue one had a 6-cell battery.

Cruise02, how many cells does your current netbook battery have? And since you're expecting to order online anyway, have you checked out prices at ***Newegg***?

That's good to know.

I don't know; how can I find out?


Will check it out as soon as I post this...Jenny, the ones you linked me to have Windows 7, but I searched a bit and found this one Asus Eee PC netbook at Newegg with an 8.5 hr battery life, price is $319, S & H is free.

It may say somewhere on the battery. Or tell us the brand and model number of your netbook and maybe we can look it up.

xp's

It's a Dell Inspiron Mini 9, I think. Dell Inspiron netbooks - mine That's the one (AFAIK) they're talking about here. Check it out, please. It talks about the keyboard criticism, 16 GB or 8 GB solid state drive. My netbook's screen is about 9 " diagonal.

Looks like it can come with different size batteries. The solid state hard drive would conserve battery life. About how long does your battery last on a charge?

If you enter your Service Tag on ***this page*** it may tell you more about your battery.

What is Service Tag? I got this from my nephew. Oops, sorry - i just found it. it's 949HWF1. And here's all the info on it that I got: Service Tag: 949HWF1 Change Service Tag
System Type: Inspiron Mini 9 (910)
Ship Date: 10/31/2008
Dell IBU: Americas


Quantity Parts # Part Description

1 DP118 Base,No Bios,N270,1.6,512K Diamondville,910
1 W959F PRC,N270,1.6,512KB,DMV,C0
1 P677X Module,Accessory,United States,910,Dell Americas Organization
1 D160H Module,Adapter,Alternating Current,30W,2P,United States 910
1 H106H Module,Assembly,Base,WO/WWAN 910
1 C050H Module,Battery,Primary,32WHR 4C,Dynapack International Technology Corp
1 P156H Module,Bezel,Liquid Crystal Display,Silver,8.9,W/1.3CMRA
1 X625G Module,Card,Network,Broadcom Corporation,Arcadyan,US
1 T370H Module,Card,Network,Bluetooth QH/YM
1 K124H Module,Cover,Liquid Crystal Display,IMR,White,Wireless Local Area Network Card,910
1 P334X Module,Dual In-line Memory Module,1GB,800MHZ,DDR2,1GBIT
1 N128J Module,Information,ALP WHT Color
1 J536J Module,Information,VID/GRPHC SOLN
1 M108J Module,Information,WO/WWAN
1 R117H Module,Keyboard,61,English Qiao Hong,Windows,Dell Americas Organization
1 J341J Module,Label,Intel,Tablet,AtomDual Core
1 MC386 Module,Label,MSLOGO,Windows Xp,SMALL
1 R085H Module,Liquid Crystal Display 8.9WSVGA,True Life,Au Optronics Corp,Qiao Hong
1 M642H Module,Media,Digital Video Disk Drive,Resource Dvd,910
1 P304H Module,Ship Material,System, Inspiron
1 T479H Module,Solid State Drive,16GB Parallel Advanced Technology Attachment,STEC,910
1 K637C Module,Software,Creative Camera,Consumer
1 J206C Module,Software,Dell Connect 2.1,Dell Americas OrganizationEMEA,Brazil Customer Center
1 KW181 MOD,SW,DSPRT-CTR,2.0
1 WK528 Module,Software,GOOGLE,Search Consumer
1 CM132 Module,Software,Mcafee,9,30DAYEnglish,Across Line Of Business
1 W914C Module,Software,Dell Computer Corporation,CHAT,M09
1 T013C Module,Software,Works,9 English
1 P788J Module,Software,WXPH,Low Cost,Certificate of Authenticity, V#2008
1 W265J Module,Software,WXPHSP3,Low Cost,DVD,English,DAO/BCC
1 G311J Module,Software,WXPHSP3,Low Cost,Factory Install,English Dell Americas Organization
1 G419J Module,Software,WXPHSP3,Low Cost,Factory Install,Quick FixEngineering
1 J843H Service Install Module Software,Inspiron,910

Doesn't look there any battery life info here (not that I know of).

As Winfrey posted, you can filter search results at Newegg - the page she linked to all have XP.

Thanks - I found this one Asus Eee PC netbook - seashell
and I emailed my nephew about it along with the link - am awaiting word from him.

It's 4 cells then.

I went back on that page to that blue netbook that's sold out at Best Buy before just now, and apparently it's been restocked. That blue Best Buy netbook is back This time there's nothing on this page that says "sold out/unavailable".

I just emailed my nephew about this one with a link to that page.

Cruise02,
That link is to Google's cache of the webpage, not to the current webpage (which no longer exists). Unless you find that netbook in your local Best Buy shop, you may not be able to get it from them.

These specs still stand, I'm just posting here because they were buried deeper in this thread, and if my PC-savvy nephew comes over soon (maybe tomorrow) I'll have these specs from EcollegePC ready for him to order the desktop on the last page of this thread so I won't have to go a-diggin' for it.

As for the netbook, I'd like to pay a little more at Newegg for one that has a 6 cell battery, so will repost the link here... Asus netbook I saw at Newegg has 8 hr battery life - I can while away the day playing games at the mall!

Desktop PC specs at EcollegePC - Newegg doesn't have what I want, I just checked there, and my searches came up empty (Nvida video card + XP OS).

CPU - 2.8 GHz Dual Core E6300;
Heatsink/fan - took default;
Motherboard - Gigabyte GA 73PVM (old); this MB no longer available, so have selected the Gigabyte GA G41M
Memory - default - 2 GB; b/c XP cannot use more than 2 GB RAM
Hard drive - default - 500GB 7200 RPM;
CD / DVD / CDRW - default;
Video card - 1 GB GeForce GTS 250;
Operating System - MS Windows XP Home_sp3;
Case - Apevia Silver X Dreamer;
Power Supply - 500 Watt Antec Earthwatts EA500;
Networking - default;
Wireless networking - Wireless B/G PCI Adapter (old); chose wireless B/G/N PCI adapter this time.
Sound card - default;
Speakers - none - will use these from current Dell Dimension 8200;
Floppy drive - 1.44 Floppy Drive (I never know when I might order a DOS game from Amazon.com/Ebay that comes on a 3.5" floppy disks);
Keyboard/mouse/card reader/accessories 1 & 2 - none;
Will use the keyboard, mouse, and CRT monitor from the current Dell Dimension.

Warranty - default;

price is now $731 (old price).

Just checked these specs at Ecollege - the price is $745.

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Latest update - I admit I really have my heart set on getting a laptop (because in this thread I was thinking about buying a desktop PC and a new netbook), but Mom and Tim might decide to get me a laptop instead b/c 1-to buy 2 computers would cost us that much more money, 2-Mom might not allow me to buy 2 computers in 1 month, 3-a new laptop would be like combining the desktop PC and a netbook into 1 computer, and that laptop has win 7 on it but hopefully I'll either be able to get the Win 7 Pro or a laptop that has a Win XP downgrade possible.

Question - I'm playing with the "customize" configurations on the Toshiba page here: Lightweight Laptop Choice "A"
so I'm wondering what GHz should the processor be to be adequate for running the latest/upcoming AG's?
I want to trim off as much of the price that I can, yet I want something I'm going to be very happy with.

EDIT 2 - I figured how long it'll take me to save up for Choice A laptop, it came to April; by then I'll hopefully have $1000 saved, the price (after making the configurations that I'm comfortable with) comes to $1,099.00, free shipping, but then (oh, my) there's tax on it. Might have to wait until May so my budget will hopefully be $1,200.

Gosh, I didn't know that a good laptop would cost that much! I see them advertised in the Sunday papers for as little as $300 - $500! But Drac told me that these laptops lack a dedicated video card - see how they fool you?

EDIT 3 - Found this one at Best Buy Laptop choice "B"
This one looks like a better deal to me. It's cheaper, yet robust - it's a gaming laptop, backordered, ultraportable, has everything I want in it, plus the Win 7 Pro. But can anyone tell me whether the i3 processor outperforms a Core 2 Duo or not? It costs only $900, so if I pick this one over Choice "A", I'll be ready to buy in April - hopefully around Eastertime.

However, by Easter, I'm positive that Best Buy will have a nice gaming laptop that has everything that this one has, plus it'll be superior to this one, and about the same price. That's one of the ways that waiting is indeed a gift.

(bump) Sorry to stack my latest posts, but this thread has fallen back into the second page of the glitches forum where it will be less likely to get read by these who were advising me so far (thanks), and I wanted to bring it out to the front page of the forum.

Latest update: Am undecided as to whether to get a 13" - 14" regular laptop, (is a laptop and a notebook the same thing, or if not, what's the difference, adventure gaming-wise?) or a desktop PC and a netbook. The deciding factor between a laptop/notebook and a new netbook is its weight - I want a beefy (specs-wise) 13" - 14" yet lightweight laptop/notebook for taking to the mall in my backpack, or if the specs-muscle behind this laptop's hardware would cause the laptop to weigh more than 5.5 pounds (if it'll weigh 7 pounds, it's too heavy for me), then I'll forgo the laptop and get a netbook and a desktop PC.

Since I really don't know that much about what makes a laptop/notebook low-end, average, or beefy hardware-wise when it comes to gaming, I really don't know what laptops to check when it comes to backpack-carrying weight, so could you please help me make up my mind on whether to get a laptop/notebook or a netbook?

Maybe point me to places that have these beefy lightweights (brick and mortar stores, please) as well as some models, please?

Thanks.

And you'll get the worst qualities of each.
More difficult to lug around than a netbook.
Far worse battery life than a netbook.
Fewer games will play on the laptop as compared with the desktop.
Far fewer configuration options than the desktop, and less choice in driver versions.
Probably more expensive than a desktop and netbook combined.
etc.


You won't get the XP downgrade unless you order one online -- and the laptops that come with the XP downgrade are usually business laptops, without the graphics cards that are the best for games.


Any modern processor will be fast enough. However on a laptop they will downclock (and go slower) when you run them on battery in order to save power. And if you turn off that feature, your battery will run out faster and you won't be able to game for long.


As someone else pointed out earlier in this thread, the laptop you want does not exist.


It's got NVIDIA GeForce 310M graphics. This is bottom of the barrel for a Geforce card. Your casual games may play very well, but don't expect much from new adventure games that are made to run in Windows 7 64-bit, which is the OS on that laptop.


No it isn't. Not unless you only play casual games and games that run in Virtual PC. It should run those just fine. But those would run on the netbook as well.


The terms are used interchangeably.


Well, here's another consideration for you. Suppose there was a laptop that was 13" to 14." There will be very little room inside that small laptop for air circulation. It will get very hot playing, even with the laptop fan blowing and draining power. The hotter the interior of the laptop gets, the faster the parts inside wear out. Not only are the internal parts subject to more heat stress than inside a desktop, individual parts can't be easily replaced if they fail. That's one reason you don't see very fast video cards in small 13" and 14" laptops. This thread --> ***here*** is about an extreme example of what happened when a midrange video card was put into a "thin and light" laptop.

If you want a gaming laptop, the smallest you should get is 15" and pay special attention to the video card. You'll need at least a good midrange video card, not a low end.

I think you should get the PC. It's the most versatile choice.

You're right about this, Jenny. Tonight when I came home from the mall I tried (if I still insisted on getting a laptop and got a 15") putting my macbook pro into my backpack, strapping it to my back and walking around a bit in the house - I realized yes, had I chose a laptop over a netbook (and a desktop several months later) I'd have to be extra, extra, extra careful not to bump my backpack against a doorframe/table/chair while at the mall, while a netbook is more compact and easier to carry around with less chance of bumping it.

Any idea how much worse the battery life in a laptop would be compared with a netbook?

Today I went to my local Best Buy near the mall and I saw that Asus Eee PC netbook (the dark blue one) that I was looking at on display on the store shelf. I understand it has only a 3 cell battery, but it's the only model in the store that has XP, and besides, Mom feels more comfortable with me buying a computer from a brick and mortar store. Anyway, the price looks good - $280 + tax = $300, and these XP models were being discontinued. So while there, I put one of them on hold so hopefully, if I'm quiet enough, Mom will gave me the money for the netbook tomorrow so I can go out there and get it (hopefully) - Would you say it's a good computer to warrant my buying it? It's battery life is 3.5 hrs.

Thanks a whole bunch for your kind help, Jenny - my mind was made up as soon as I saw your reply earlier today before leaving the house.