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#878031 - 04/03/13 01:26 PM Re: Another Reason for Delayed Games [Re: BrownEyedTigre]
BrownEyedTigre Offline
The Sassy Global Moderator PR Liaison
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Registered: 01/04/04
Posts: 64677
Loc: In the Naughty Corner
frogwares, MDNA are two developers I can think of offhand that sells games direct.

Icenerg Interactive is the publisher for The Last Crown so not sure if Jonathon will also be able to sell direct.

Ana wave
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#878042 - 04/03/13 02:46 PM Re: Another Reason for Delayed Games [Re: BrownEyedTigre]
lanlynk Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 03/07/13
Posts: 303
Loc: Alaska
So now I'm really confused! I double checked on my Boakes games, two of which I bought and played years ago.

Dark Fall actually says Adventure Company on the jewel case. Not sure where I bought it. But I bought Dark Fall 2 from Amazon. It has Adventure Company on the box, but is listed as sold by Dreamcatcher. A few years later, I bought Lost Crown from Amazon, listed by Got Game, which is on the box.

I also see Amazon sells versions of these games by Nordic, Iceberg, and "Unknown."

And even though my internet bandwidth is not that fast, I prefer downloads now--because I don't have to worry about storage or handling of discs.

But how on earth are consumers to know the legit game to buy? I prefer to have as few purchasing accts as possible online. I don't want to buy things from a lot of different web sites. I've always considered Amazon (and GOG) reputable sites.

So are these types of problems still big issues?


Edited by lanlynk (04/03/13 05:48 PM)
Edit Reason: On boxes: Adventure "Company" not Adventure "Games"
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#878048 - 04/03/13 02:56 PM Re: Another Reason for Delayed Games [Re: BrownEyedTigre]
BrownEyedTigre Offline
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At the time of release these publishers had the rights to sell the game but they never paid the developer. They kept all the money for themselves. Unfortunately, not even the developer knows at the time that he won't be paid.

Ana wave
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#878051 - 04/03/13 03:06 PM Re: Another Reason for Delayed Games [Re: BrownEyedTigre]
lanlynk Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 03/07/13
Posts: 303
Loc: Alaska
I knew that game development, like so many creative arenas, was a struggling field. But I never realized developers were being cheated!
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#878076 - 04/03/13 05:19 PM Re: Another Reason for Delayed Games [Re: lanlynk]
Homer6 Offline
BAAG Specialist

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 5490
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
Originally Posted By: lanlynk
But how on earth are consumers to know the legit game to buy? I prefer to have as few purchasing accts as possible online. I don't want to buy things from a lot of different web sites. I've always considered Amazon (and GOG) reputable sites.

So are these types of problems still big issues?


That is the 64 dollar question, lanlynk, and unless there is public information available of a dispute between developer and distributor you won't know. These type problems are usually kept from the public because they are considered bad publicity, and/or may have litigation pending, which keeps both parties from making any comments.

If questions arise, about the only way to ensure who developed what game is to visit game review sites, computer software review sites, etc. to see if a review of the game exists. And if there are/were advanced announcements about said game.
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#878077 - 04/03/13 05:20 PM Re: Another Reason for Delayed Games [Re: BrownEyedTigre]
oldmariner Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 01/29/07
Posts: 1377
For the record I never said boycott gog. What I said was I am waiting to see if gog does the right thing. The issue was brought to their attention, they removed the game. The question becomes will gog now offer it stating they will pay Johnathan? I do not doubt for a minute gog believed Nordic owned the rights. I suspect Nordic believed they owned the rights. As I said I want to see gog do the right thing before passing judgment. The ball is in their court.

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#878079 - 04/03/13 05:21 PM Re: Another Reason for Delayed Games [Re: BrownEyedTigre]
Karsten Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 10/25/06
Posts: 1476
Loc: Denmark, Europe
As I see it, this is not the fault of GOG or Nordic Games. I woulnd't hesitate to buy from GOG or games being published by Nordic Games.

As I see it, as others have pointed out as well: GOG made a deal with Nordic Games for the back cataloque(sp?) of the Dreamcatcher games. Dreamcatcher was owned by the adventure game company (or was it the other way round?) Nevertheless, Dreamcatcher and the adventure game company probably struggled financially for years before they closed their doors.

In the confusion, my best guess is that communications were not clear, Boakes Cease and Desist Letter might not even have gotten through the to correct people - or maybe no people at all?

Anyway, it seems from Boakes' communication on Twitter that all is going to to bel well again...

eta:

Jonathan Boakes is the developer of Dark Fall as well as the copyright holder to the Dark Fall games. In the game world, this is very verty unusual. Normally, a publisher will pay a developer say 2 million US dollars to make a game and 2 million US dollars when the game is finished. the numbers are someone I've made up to clarify my point which is this:

When the game is finished, the publisher, I'd guess, owns the game, and the copyright to the game. As an example of this, EA bough the Pandemic and Bioware way back in 2007-2008; EA then acquired/got all the copyrighted Bioware and Pandemic materials with the exception of, I think, the baldur's gate games? As another example, Obsidian developed Fallout: New Vegas for Bethesda, but it is Bethesda which have the copyright for the Fallout: New Vegas game. (since the now own the Fallout franchise....)

Also this:
In my mind, GOG will do the correct and right ting. Pay Jonathan Boakes the money that is owed to him, from now on......and maybe also from way back when. GOG does know that what they have going for them is their credibility....if they lose this - or even a tiny fraction of their ethos/credibility, all may or could be lost for GOG.com....



Edited by Karsten (04/03/13 05:31 PM)
Edit Reason: clarification
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#878083 - 04/03/13 05:33 PM Re: Another Reason for Delayed Games [Re: Homer6]
lanlynk Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 03/07/13
Posts: 303
Loc: Alaska
Good suggestions, Homer6. My eyes have been opened, and I'll pay more attention to game news now. Very grateful for the GameBoomers community!
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"Dragons were never gone. They were just invisible and very, very quiet." ~ M'aiq the Liar (Skyrim)

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#878153 - 04/03/13 11:41 PM Re: Another Reason for Delayed Games [Re: lanlynk]
Mad Online   content
True Blue Boomer

Registered: 11/21/00
Posts: 23310
Loc: United Kingdom
The way I can buy games from MDNA is just perfect for me !! bravo

Mikael's "no frills" arrangement gives me just what I want : A good game, on a disk, at a sensible price (even with shipping to the UK) and no restrictions yes

And all in the happy knowledge that the developer gets a fair reward for his work thumbsup
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#878396 - 04/04/13 11:06 PM Re: Another Reason for Delayed Games [Re: BrownEyedTigre]
Mikael Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 06/10/02
Posts: 448
Loc: Sweden
During the years I’ve been making games I’ve gotten acquainted with several other game developers, and believe me, there are very few of them that don’t have a story like this to tell. I for one have several.

It’s especially depressing that it happens to Dark Fall, since I consider it the most groundbreaking independent adventure game ever. It was the game that showed us that one person alone could make a fully fledged game that was even better (actually a whole lot better) than most other games with dozens of names rolling in the closing credits.

I don't think that GOG Games are to be blamed entirely for this though. However, that they didn’t remove the game from their catalog until Jonathan went public with the issue reflects very badly on them. It proves that they care much more about their image than developers that hold the rights to their own games get their rightful share.

Guess why we’re only selling our latest game directly from our site!

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#878403 - 04/05/13 12:45 AM Re: Another Reason for Delayed Games [Re: Mikael]
Homer6 Offline
BAAG Specialist

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 5490
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
Mikael, isn't there something within the law(s) that can compel distributors to honor their contractual payment agreements?
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#878601 - 04/05/13 07:03 PM Re: Another Reason for Delayed Games [Re: Homer6]
Mikael Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 06/10/02
Posts: 448
Loc: Sweden
Originally Posted By: Homer6
Mikael, isn't there something within the law(s) that can compel distributors to honor their contractual payment agreements?


Yes, there is. But some developers feel uncomfortable about hiring legal representation, since it can be very expensive if you lose. Some might not afford it at all. Besides, if the company that owes you money is in another country (which is often the case) these matters tend to get very complicated and time consuming.


Edited by Mikael (04/05/13 07:04 PM)

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#878666 - 04/06/13 12:38 AM Re: Another Reason for Delayed Games [Re: Mikael]
Homer6 Offline
BAAG Specialist

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 5490
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
Originally Posted By: Mikael
Originally Posted By: Homer6
Mikael, isn't there something within the law(s) that can compel distributors to honor their contractual payment agreements?


Yes, there is. But some developers feel uncomfortable about hiring legal representation, since it can be very expensive if you lose. Some might not afford it at all. Besides, if the company that owes you money is in another country (which is often the case) these matters tend to get very complicated and time consuming.


I had a feeling this might be the case.
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#878991 - 04/07/13 08:42 AM Re: Another Reason for Delayed Games [Re: BrownEyedTigre]
lexxy Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 04/02/00
Posts: 3144
Loc: Southern Exposure
This discussion/disclosure has really opened my eyes and at the same time saddens me than Jonathan has had to go through such unfairness. I am holding the last retail copy of The Lost Crown and inside it states this A Ghost-Hunting Adventure By Jonathan Boakes distributed by GotGame Entertainment . Since he is acknowledged here can I assume he was paid the royalties he is due?
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#879029 - 04/07/13 10:52 AM Re: Another Reason for Delayed Games [Re: BrownEyedTigre]
BrownEyedTigre Offline
The Sassy Global Moderator PR Liaison
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 01/04/04
Posts: 64677
Loc: In the Naughty Corner
GotGame is no longer in business in part because of all the lawsuits regarding lack of payments. If I recall correctly they won their rights back in this case but don't recall if they received the money.
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