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Rumor: Microsoft Bringing Back the Start Button With Windows Blue #881514
04/17/13 04:31 AM
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Re: Rumor: Microsoft Bringing Back the Start Button With Windows Blue [Re: Donald] #881524
04/17/13 06:09 AM
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Thanks Donald. I hope it's true!


Gerry
Re: Rumor: Microsoft Bringing Back the Start Button With Windows Blue [Re: Donald] #881546
04/17/13 07:51 AM
04/17/13 07:51 AM
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***Beware of Windows Blue***
Quote:
But everything Microsoft has done since the confusing Ribbon interface has been less intuitive and more inefficient, especially for power users.

This new tile direction is about art, design awards, and abstraction. In no way is it about productivity. And despite the use of simplistic tiles, it is not about simplicity. Someone along the way confused "simplistic" with "simplicity." There's a big difference. The first is dumb and clumsy; the second is smart and elegant.

Re: Rumor: Microsoft Bringing Back the Start Button With Windows Blue [Re: Donald] #881561
04/17/13 09:05 AM
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Part of the rumor is that Microsoft will also allow you to boot to the desktop too. That's just one opinion... There are many who love the tiled Start page and find it far superior to the old style "list." I can see where it's better on a touch enabled device, but I'm sort of neutral on it for mouse and keyboard. I do disagree with the part of the quote that opines that it's dumb and clumsy. I don't find it to be either even with keyboard and mouse. Once I got mine set up the way I want it, it's simple and very intuitive. My 6 year-old granddaughter sat down with it and was flying around in less than 5 minutes exploring everything.

If Microsoft wants to do something smart with the OS though, they will bring back the Start button at the very least. Booting into the desktop is not that big of a deal because if you place a desktop tile in the upper left, a simple press of the enter key takes you there. If they allow people the options they are used to, they can discover and take advantage of the underpinnings of Windows 8 which are it's real strength.


Gardens put to bed for the winter. Time for some gaming!
Re: Rumor: Microsoft Bringing Back the Start Button With Windows Blue [Re: Donald] #881593
04/17/13 12:49 PM
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This is encouraging news. Does Windows 7 also offer a "Classic View" option? I never opted for the XP view since it released and have always used the older "Classic View" It would be nice for the option to choose what you want to see in an Operating System instead of forcing something down ones throat. But even with a Classic View don't we still have the problem with Windows 8 and Classic gaming or am I wrong with this?


"Don't Hate Me Because I Am Beautiful...There Are Many Other Reasons!"
Re: Rumor: Microsoft Bringing Back the Start Button With Windows Blue [Re: Donald] #881621
04/17/13 03:26 PM
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Many people were horrified by the so-called "Fisher-Price" interface of XP and opted to stay with the old Classic View. Personally, I RAN away from the old Classic View as it was just clunky in my opinion. Today, those views are almost 20 years old and I much prefer the way the new operating systems look and work.

There are some tweaks you can make to Windows 7 such as eliminating the Aero and Glass features. There are 3rd party apps out there that will allow you to customize the appearance, but I "think" - with the operative word being think - that they will only go back to the look of XP. Classic Shell is one of them that I'm aware of.

Read our Windows 8 and Games thread stickied at the top of the Glitches forum for a feel how games are working Windows 8. I've been pretty pleasantly surprised by how many of the old games are playing. I've included the year the games were released for reference.


Gardens put to bed for the winter. Time for some gaming!
Re: Rumor: Microsoft Bringing Back the Start Button With Windows Blue [Re: Donald] #881624
04/17/13 03:35 PM
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Well for my 2 cents (a buck and a quarter for inflation) it took me a while to get used to the Windows 8 interface but now that I am, I prefer it.

I never really used the start menu in previous versions anyway because it was always to clutered and it was too much of a hassle to weed it out. Therefore, I just used the task bar and icons on the desktop to list the programs that I used on a regular basis. So, if given the choice I would opt to keep what I have now become used to.

Being able to switch to the desktop and the icons on the windows 8 startup is, for me, the best of both worlds and since I've finally become familiar with it, the windows 8 startup works for me.


You laugh because I'm different
I laugh because you're all the same

Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most.

John
Re: Rumor: Microsoft Bringing Back the Start Button With Windows Blue [Re: Donald] #881630
04/17/13 04:05 PM
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Me too, oldman. I still really need to get some of the keyboard shortcuts in my head though. Windows key + Print Screen for a screenshot saved as a .jpg file is my favorite so far!


Gardens put to bed for the winter. Time for some gaming!
Re: Rumor: Microsoft Bringing Back the Start Button With Windows Blue [Re: Donald] #881640
04/17/13 04:34 PM
04/17/13 04:34 PM
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So...the keyboard Print Screen key doesn't work all by itself for a screen shot? If not, does it still copy the screen to be pasted in a program like PSP?

Just curious,

Gil.


"Best not to think about it. I don't want to fall to bits 'cos of excess existential thought."
Re: Rumor: Microsoft Bringing Back the Start Button With Windows Blue [Re: Donald] #881641
04/17/13 04:34 PM
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My experience with Windows 8 has been very brief but very intense. My aunt bought a new laptop with Windows 8 on it and asked for my help as she was having problems. I'm not crazy about the tile screens replacing the start button but I can live with it. The one issue I have is that it appears that a given program is designed to run either from the tile screen or from the desktop and that you can't choose where to run it. This is annoying to me as I would probably prefer to work mostly from the desktop but it looks like I would severely limit what I could do if I stayed always in the desktop.

Am I missing something or is this really how it works?


Bob
As I've grown older, I've found that my memory is not as good as I used to think it was.
Re: Rumor: Microsoft Bringing Back the Start Button With Windows Blue [Re: Donald] #881676
04/17/13 06:49 PM
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Gil, the plain Print Screen works the same way. A screenshot is placed on the clipboard. Then you open up Paint (or PSP or whatever) and paste it in there to edit or save as a .jpg. In Windows 8, if you press Windows key + Printscreen, the screenshot is automatically saved as a .jpg file in your Pictures folder in a file called Screenshots. No pasting into Paint or PSP or anything. One step screenshots...

BobH, your annoyance is also mine. What is going on is you are still able to install and run legacy programs on the desktop side. So, if you open up one of those programs, you are flipped over to the desktop. If you are strictly running apps from the Start menu, you stay in the Start menu. If you had a Surface tablet with Windows RT (run time) on it, then you would stay in the tiled Start page all the time because Windows RT cannot run any legacy programs. You can tell the difference between a Start page app and a simple link (in the shape of a tile). If you right click on an app, you have several options to make it larger or smaller or make it a live tile etc. If it's simply a link to something, those options are not there... because all it is, is a link, not an app.

The problem for me is that I have the things I use the most on my operating system in tiles on the Start page - such as Computer or Control Panel or Downloads. These also flip you over to the desktop which I find very annoying. I've heard that these are going to be integrated into the Start page with one of the upgrades.


Gardens put to bed for the winter. Time for some gaming!
Re: Rumor: Microsoft Bringing Back the Start Button With Windows Blue [Re: Donald] #881687
04/17/13 07:47 PM
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Good to know, Draclvr. If I ever have Win 8, I'd like to know I can copy and paste from Print Screen since I never leave a screen shot the size I found it and generally crop to what I want from it.

Thanks!

Gil.


"Best not to think about it. I don't want to fall to bits 'cos of excess existential thought."
Re: Rumor: Microsoft Bringing Back the Start Button With Windows Blue [Re: Donald] #881688
04/17/13 08:02 PM
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I use the Snipping Tool for screenshots that are just the exact part of the screen I want. Much easier than all the copying and pasting and cropping in another program. I just grab what I want with the Snipping Tool and it's saved as a .jpg or .png or whatever file format I want.


Gardens put to bed for the winter. Time for some gaming!
Re: Rumor: Microsoft Bringing Back the Start Button With Windows Blue [Re: Draclvr] #881703
04/17/13 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted By: Draclvr
I use the Snipping Tool for screenshots that are just the exact part of the screen I want. Much easier than all the copying and pasting and cropping in another program. I just grab what I want with the Snipping Tool and it's saved as a .jpg or .png or whatever file format I want.


thumbsup Someone told me about the Snipping Tool a short time ago and now that's all I ever use. It is a big improvement over Print Screen and Paint. It can be found in the Start Menu under Accessories.

By the way, about using the Start Menu, I do use it. I don't tend to start programs from desktop shortcuts so I put my most often used ones on the task bar and pin the less often used ones to the start menu. Very clean for me as it only amounts to about 10 icons pinned to the start menu and 8 to the task bar. I have the Snipping Tool pinned to the Start Menu for easy access.

Last edited by BobH; 04/17/13 09:36 PM. Reason: cleaned up the text

Bob
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Re: Rumor: Microsoft Bringing Back the Start Button With Windows Blue [Re: Donald] #881720
04/17/13 11:38 PM
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And moving between the Start page and the desktop is as simple as pressing the Windows key or clicking in the lower left corner.


Gardens put to bed for the winter. Time for some gaming!
Re: Rumor: Microsoft Bringing Back the Start Button With Windows Blue [Re: Draclvr] #881741
04/18/13 03:04 AM
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I've never used Win 8, and I don't see using it until MS no longer supports Win 7. So I have a couple of questions. When Win 8 starts, instead of the desktop screen we're used to seeing, Win 8 starts in a tile screen, is that correct?

But if you want to go to the "normal" desktop screen you can select to do that manually. Is that correct?

When Win 8 is first installed, are there any settings presented that allow the user to set the program to run on desktop, tablet, smartphone, etc.? I realize some devices have limits and things must be set to certain settings to work properly, but it seems to me the user should have the option to set the type of main screen they prefer as default when its used on a PC.


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Re: Rumor: Microsoft Bringing Back the Start Button With Windows Blue [Re: Homer6] #881797
04/18/13 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted By: Homer6
I've never used Win 8, and I don't see using it until MS no longer supports Win 7. So I have a couple of questions. When Win 8 starts, instead of the desktop screen we're used to seeing, Win 8 starts in a tile screen, is that correct?

Yes

Quote:
But if you want to go to the "normal" desktop screen you can select to do that manually. Is that correct?

Yes, but when you boot the OS, it will not start with the desktop by default.

Quote:
When Win 8 is first installed, are there any settings presented that allow the user to set the program to run on desktop, tablet, smartphone, etc.?

Windows 8 doesn't run on tablet or smartphone.
Windows RT does run on tablet or smartphone, and it looks very much like Windows 8, but it's different underneath.

Quote:
I realize some devices have limits and things must be set to certain settings to work properly, but it seems to me the user should have the option to set the type of main screen they prefer as default when its used on a PC.

You have to use 3rd party software if you want the default screen to be the desktop.

Re: Rumor: Microsoft Bringing Back the Start Button With Windows Blue [Re: Donald] #881817
04/18/13 09:59 AM
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Correct to all of the above. Now, yes, you can get to the desktop with a press of the enter key if you have your desktop tile on the upper left. Or you can switch with a press of the Windows key. But why not allow people the option to boot into whichever interface they choose? I've been called lazy in one forum when told the desktop is only one key away, but my point is that I/ME/I should have the choice!

Classic Shell is a free 3rd party program that lets you make Windows 7 or Windows 8 look and behave just like you want it to.

I'm telling people there is no earthly reason to switch to Windows 8 if they are running Windows 7.

Next to simple screenshots, one of my other favorite features is NO REBOOTS after updates and other changes. Plus, when Windows 8 DOES need to reboot, it gives you a message about it 2 days ahead of time rather than annoying you about it every few minutes.


Gardens put to bed for the winter. Time for some gaming!
Re: Rumor: Microsoft Bringing Back the Start Button With Windows Blue [Re: Draclvr] #881838
04/18/13 12:09 PM
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People who design software don't seem to believe users should have as much control over the display as they'd like. I should be able to configure a display any way I choose, and not have someone who doesn't know my preferences force me into something I stick my tongue at.

Software designers, and developers, are trying to create something computer users, of any kind, will buy. So why limit the users' options for how their product will be displayed. If I want tiles littering my display, I should be able to have tiles littering my display. If I want only certain things on the screen, I should be able to do that as well.

It won't happen because too many users just have to have the latest and greatest, but if computer users would stop buying a program because it's the latest and greatest, designers and developers would start to give the buyers exactly what they want. Not what the designers and developers believe they should have. This is a contention I've had from the first day I started my first computer, and it hasn't changed.


If something gets your goat, it just proves you have a goat to get.
Re: Rumor: Microsoft Bringing Back the Start Button With Windows Blue [Re: Donald] #881841
04/18/13 12:19 PM
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I couldn't agree more, Homer. Our computers - at home anyway - are very personal expressions to most of us. I/ME/I want to have control over how it looks and works for me. I believe we will be holding our collective breaths a long time before anything changes.


Gardens put to bed for the winter. Time for some gaming!
Re: Rumor: Microsoft Bringing Back the Start Button With Windows Blue [Re: Donald] #881868
04/18/13 03:17 PM
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It seems to me, that most people forget, that MS is designing it in this simple way, so even monkeys can make it work.

For one reason only - cut down on all the "stupid" calls to support from people, who don't know how to do this or that.
They are tired of the "average" user not being able to figure out even how to get online (just an example)

In my opinion, they are dumbing down windows.
And you know, that would be all fine by me, if they would leave it alone for the rest of us or maybe give us an "enhanced" version - not dumb version.

Sorry for all the "" seems I "like" to use that a lot lol laugh


"You can not escape your past, but you can make your future" - Diana Melkumova - @wowdane
Re: Rumor: Microsoft Bringing Back the Start Button With Windows Blue [Re: Donald] #881896
04/18/13 06:05 PM
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On the other hand, and speaking for the monkeys, Microsoft isn't designing 8 for PC users, IMO, but for everyone else with their iPads and laptops and I have no idea what since I have none of them, just my PC. Homer6 has the right idea.

It does seem it wouldn't take much for them to tailor a version of Windows 8 for the desktop PC...no dumb touch screen, for instance, which makes zero sense if you're sitting at a desk. A lot of people still do, despite all that talk about desktop computers going the way of the dodo. They are supposed to be the brains, they should use them to keep us happy and quite possibly less averse to change as a result.

Cranky


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Re: Rumor: Microsoft Bringing Back the Start Button With Windows Blue [Re: Donald] #881902
04/18/13 07:09 PM
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I'm not going to hold my breath on restoring the Start Button, it's not been mentioned in the TechNet forums, and my subscription level doesn't list it as available.

I run Android on my tablets, I don't have a need for Windows on those devices.

IMHO this is going down as one of the biggest business blunders in history smile

Re: Rumor: Microsoft Bringing Back the Start Button With Windows Blue [Re: Donald] #881905
04/18/13 07:16 PM
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I agree with all of the above. It seems to me that MS in their haste to "catch up" to the tablet and phone market did a disservice to their PC market. I have two laptops for work loaded with Windows 7. I am having a hard time seeing the two companies that supplied me with these laptops go with Windows 8 as it is currently being sold.

But I try to stay away from solid predictions for the PC market. I remember clearly when the IBM PC was introduced. There was a smallish but very active PC market at the time with companies getting in their entries. The IBM PC was many times the price of the competitors and I boldly claimed that it would never catch on as it had priced itself right out of the market. smile


Bob
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Re: Rumor: Microsoft Bringing Back the Start Button With Windows Blue [Re: Donald] #881916
04/18/13 08:29 PM
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I've been saying we should have choices in all this electronic tech junk all along, but nobody listens to me! You are forced to go with what they want you to go with.

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