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#892530 - 06/06/13 12:48 AM Re: Windows 7 Support & Security Updates [Re: GreyFuss]
Draclvr Offline
Adept Boomer

Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 10036
Loc: In Missouri near St. Louis
What lanlynk said... the XP mode is basically business based and does not support 3-D graphics. There is nothing saying you can't keep one or more of your excellent old XP computers just for the rare game that won't play on Windows 7 Home Premium.
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Gardening is better than therapy. Plus you get tomatoes.

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#892544 - 06/06/13 04:53 AM Re: Windows 7 Support & Security Updates [Re: GreyFuss]
Kaki's Sister Offline
Graduate Boomer

Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 17330
Loc: Marlborough USA
Thanks for the link lanlynk. Helped me understand 32 bit versus 64 bit.
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#892556 - 06/06/13 06:51 AM Re: Windows 7 Support & Security Updates [Re: GreyFuss]
mj2c Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 922
What some people may not realise is that it's possible for there to be a performance hit for 64bit programs because whilst all pointers (and so structures) get larger the processor cache stays the same. It's one of the main reasons there isn't a 64bit version of Visual Studio.

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#892574 - 06/06/13 08:19 AM Re: Windows 7 Support & Security Updates [Re: Draclvr]
Jenny100 Offline
GB Reviewer Glitches Moderator
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 10/24/00
Posts: 35477
Loc: southeast USA
Originally Posted By: GreyFuss
Now if only there was a link to compare why one would want 64bit over 32bit, hmmmm

Briefly, 64-bit allows you to use much more RAM, which is good for new games that are RAM-hungry.
32-bit is better for old computers with motherboards that can't take more than 4GB of RAM anyway. 32-bit may also allow you to run very old games that use 16-bit code, either in the installer or the game itself. Of course games that old are probably better off run inside an emulator.

Originally Posted By: Draclvr
What lanlynk said... the XP mode is basically business based and does not support 3-D graphics.

In other words, XP mode is very much like Virtual PC with a pre-activated XP VM, only made to look like it's part of Win7. Graphics are limited by the emulated video card -- an old S3 Trio. Here are the specs of the computer emulated in XP Mode (which are the same as for VPC2004 and VPC2007):
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/833144

Now this would be fine for very old games or other games that don't use 3D acceleration (like QuickTime-based games), except that games that are that old would be better off played in a Windows 98 VM rather than a Windows XP VM. So you're better off using Virtual PC with Windows 98 instead of XP Mode.

By the way, Microsoft says you can't use Virtual PC in Windows 8. Instead they offer Hyper-V, which does not support any version of Windows older than XP. However some people have managed to install and use Virtual PC on Windows 8. It requires changing the vmm.sys driver that comes with Virtual PC. You also need to rename the Virtual PC executable so Windows 8 won't block it from running. It's something Microsoft could easily do to create a Windows 8-compatible version of Virtual PC -- except they don't care about people who want to run very old games.

***How to Install VPC2007 on Win7/8***

***Virtual PC in Windows 8***

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#892601 - 06/06/13 10:21 AM Re: Windows 7 Support & Security Updates [Re: GreyFuss]
GreyFuss Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 2921
OH!...so there is still a "Compatibility Mode" in Win 7? See, that is why I come here for answers, I didn't know that. Which prior systems are covered. Now I understand about not needing Professional version of Win 7. But do you think they will extend the support for Pro longer than the Home version down the road like they did for XP? Where XP Home's support stopped and Prof went on because of the businesses? If the answer is no then it looks like, through everyone's help, its narrowed down for me to choose Win 7 Home Premium.

On to 64 bit vs 32 bit. Since there is nothing wrong with all my XP machines and taking Draclvrs advice to just keep one running (next to the Win 98 machine) for any replays of older games, then it seems easy to pick Win 7 Home Premium 64 bit, right? Will any game or software released now for Win 7 be able to play on the 64 bit? Or does the game or software have to say its for 64 bit? What about a printer, monitor? Will I have to buy a new one to take advantage of the 64bit or, for that matter, will they even work on 64bit?

I do appreciate all of you helping me make my decision with answers to my questions.
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"Don't Hate Me Because I Am Beautiful...There Are Many Other Reasons!"

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#892605 - 06/06/13 10:35 AM Re: Windows 7 Support & Security Updates [Re: GreyFuss]
Draclvr Offline
Adept Boomer

Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 10036
Loc: In Missouri near St. Louis
I like that you are thinking ahead and trying to cover all the bases! That's how people make good decisions.

Compatibility mode is available all the way back to Windows 95 with everything else in between. 32-bit has an emulator for 16-bit code, but 64-bit only has an emulator for 32-bit code. For instance I could play the first Shivers on 32-bit Windows 7, but not on 64-bit Windows 7. But that's why I have my old XP computer. This link explains more about compatibility mode.

Windows 7 Compatibility Mode

I think 64-bit is the only way to go to be able to take advantage of more than 4 GB of RAM. Yes, pretty much anything released that lists Windows 7 will be able to use the 64-bit version.

64-bit won't affect your printer. However, you should check with the printer manufacturer to be sure they have Windows 7 drivers for that model. One of the best things about Windows 7 and Windows 8 is the driver support... it's been amazing. Monitors are pretty much plug and play... my 4 year old monitor is working fine on both Windows 7 and Windows 8.
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Gardening is better than therapy. Plus you get tomatoes.

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#892626 - 06/06/13 11:58 AM Re: Windows 7 Support & Security Updates [Re: GreyFuss]
GreyFuss Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 2921
I see, computers only take one step back,,,ie - 32 to 16 64 to 32.

One other question....do you notice with the human eye a difference in 64bit compared to 32bit?

You do know, Miss Draclvr, that if you were standing next to me right now, I would give you a big hug but I have been told not to squeeze the tomatoes (lady)
_________________________
"Don't Hate Me Because I Am Beautiful...There Are Many Other Reasons!"

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#892639 - 06/06/13 01:17 PM Re: Windows 7 Support & Security Updates [Re: GreyFuss]
Draclvr Offline
Adept Boomer

Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 10036
Loc: In Missouri near St. Louis
None at all because there is no visual component involved. I just rebuilt my 4 1/2 year old computer and put 8 GB of RAM in it. My 64-bit operating systems now have all this memory at their disposal, rather than just a bit less that 4 GB if they were 32-bit operating systems.

grin No tomatoes yet, but lots of blooms!
_________________________
Gardening is better than therapy. Plus you get tomatoes.

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#892665 - 06/06/13 04:02 PM Re: Windows 7 Support & Security Updates [Re: GreyFuss]
oldmariner Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 01/29/07
Posts: 1433
My thing with Win8 goes like this. MS has released too many not ready for prime time OS. You can see by the rush to get out 8.1 Win 8 is nothing more than a test. MS can see the PC is going by way of the tablet and IPhones and are trying to force the PC into that area.

I am getting the sense they know 8 is a dog why else would they be contemplating releasing Win 9 next year?

Here is an article on 9. I submit if their attempt to transistion into tablet mode fails 9 will not look anything like 8. If it does not fail then 9 will become a corrected 8. So why should you switch now wait until they get it right.

Win9

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#892666 - 06/06/13 04:08 PM Re: Windows 7 Support & Security Updates [Re: GreyFuss]
lanlynk Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 03/07/13
Posts: 305
Loc: Alaska
There is another option other than Windows XP Mode, Virtual Machine, or Hyper-V. It's called VMware Player (the full business version is VMware Workstation).

VMware Player

I've read a lot of good reports about it, but haven't tried it myself. Might give it a go after reading this discussion though! I do use VMware's email program, Zimbra, which is a great desktop client for gmail. VMware is a trusted name.

VMware Player is reported to do a better job than Windows XP Mode and will run on most operating systems, including Win 8. You can use it to test different operating systems or run programs/games on various virtual OS platforms (including older Windows systems).

Since it's a virtual desktop, it still won't run high graphics games as well as a native desktop, but could be another option for older games.

Anyway, there you go. One more possibility! Choices, choices ... crazy
_________________________
"Dragons were never gone. They were just invisible and very, very quiet." ~ M'aiq the Liar (Skyrim)

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#892674 - 06/06/13 04:42 PM Re: Windows 7 Support & Security Updates [Re: GreyFuss]
Mary Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 11/02/99
Posts: 3653
Loc: New York
I've heard of VMware before, but I'm not sure what it's used for. Is it like a "system" within a system (Win 7?)?
If this helps play older games, is it easy to use?
Is there somewhere I can read more about VMware and playing older games?
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The answer is....chocolate! Who cares what the question is.....

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#892687 - 06/06/13 06:01 PM Re: Windows 7 Support & Security Updates [Re: GreyFuss]
mj2c Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 922
Yes it's another piece of virtualisation software like VirtualBox. It allows you to run other OSs on your system.

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#892688 - 06/06/13 06:01 PM Re: Windows 7 Support & Security Updates [Re: Mary]
Jenny100 Offline
GB Reviewer Glitches Moderator
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 10/24/00
Posts: 35477
Loc: southeast USA
Originally Posted By: Mary
I've heard of VMware before, but I'm not sure what it's used for. Is it like a "system" within a system (Win 7?)?

Sort of. It's similar to Virtual PC and VirtualBox.
Quote:
If this helps play older games, is it easy to use?

The free version is VMware Player, and it's not as easy to use as Virtual PC. Several configuration options have been removed compared to the pay version (VMware Workstation), and sometimes you have to edit the .vmx file to get the option you want instead of being able to choose from the VMware menu. You might have better luck with VirtualBox, which is free and open source or Virtual PC 2007, which runs in Windows 7. However VirtualBox doesn't work well with Windows 95/98.

Quote:
Is there somewhere I can read more about VMware and playing older games?

The best I could find was this
http://www.scampers.org/steve/vmware/
which has a section on games.

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#892691 - 06/06/13 06:12 PM Re: Windows 7 Support & Security Updates [Re: Mary]
lanlynk Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 03/07/13
Posts: 305
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: Mary
Is it like a "system" within a system (Win 7?)?
If this helps play older games, is it easy to use?
Is there somewhere I can read more about VMware and playing older games?

Yes, sort of like a system within a system. You would install and run the game from within the virtual OS, which sits in a window on top of your main desktop. You would also need to configure the virtual OS to optimize it for the game.

The only time I've used a virtual OS was in a business setting (with VNC and remote desktop). I've never used one to play games. Maybe someone who has used it or something similar, like VirtualBox or DOSBox, could give you some pointers.

BTW, VMware Player supports some 3D acceleration, DirectX 9; whereas Windows XP Mode does not. So you could possibly run some 3D games within the VMware Player. It just wouldn't run as well as on a native system because resources are being shared to run the virtual OS and the game.

You might try reading the manual for VMware Player (the new version is 5), or visit the forum, or check for some YouTube videos.

Getting Started with VMware Player

EDIT:
Originally Posted By: Jenny100
The best I could find was this
http://www.scampers.org/steve/vmware/
which has a section on games.

Good info, Jenny100! Didn't see your post before I finished mine. wave


Edited by lanlynk (06/06/13 06:28 PM)
_________________________
"Dragons were never gone. They were just invisible and very, very quiet." ~ M'aiq the Liar (Skyrim)

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#892697 - 06/06/13 06:25 PM Re: Windows 7 Support & Security Updates [Re: GreyFuss]
Mary Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 11/02/99
Posts: 3653
Loc: New York
Being the big "chicken" I am concerning anything computer related, I think I'll do some reading up on VMware.
Thanks, all.
_________________________
The answer is....chocolate! Who cares what the question is.....

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