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Re: Dreamfall Chapters will feature 5 Episodes beginning Autumn 2014 [Re: smulan] #966006
07/03/14 12:51 PM
07/03/14 12:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,525
oldmariner Offline
Addicted Boomer
oldmariner  Offline
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Originally Posted By: smulan
Kickstarter is about supporting ideas with your money, not preordering a product. And it's a matter of free will to do it or not. The story in Dreamfall was fully satisfying to me and I believe chapters will succeed in this too. I'm behind Thornquists decision.


Yes you are preordering a product.

The business in the past worked by developers taking a risk using their own capital to create a game they hope to sell. The publishers took a risk when the developer presented it to them. The customer viewed the final product presentation. The success or failure depended on the market accepting the game or not. The capital at risk was theirs as were the earned profits or loss.

What developers are now doing is presenting their project asking the customer to bear the risk. If the game is a total flop the developer has spent your money and still makes a profit. You have paid for the game based on nothing more than a promise. In other words they are trying to change the rules by making you the customer bear the risk.

It's a great way to run a business take no financial risk, guarantee all your expenses are met and pocket some money in the process. Look at the Kick starter pitch, "If we do not received X amount of pledges the project will not be funded and you pay nothing." In other words if the project is not fully funded meaning costs and profit projections are not realized, sorry folks. Who is taking the risk? Not the people proposing the game.

It's like ordering a 60 inch flat screen and the delivery guy drops a 19 inch at your door. The note inside says, "Sorry we had production issues at the factory and had to substitute." Somewhere deep in the number 2 font paperwork you find, "Not responsible for any last minute changes."

The bottom line is they beg for your money promising Gabriel Knight 4 that is what they must deliver.

It is my opinion, some will agree some won't. You purchased what they promised. I guess it depends on how willing you are to be played. I will crawl quietly back into my hole with a promise of no more funding projects no matter how enticing.

Last edited by oldmariner; 07/03/14 12:53 PM.
Re: Dreamfall Chapters will feature 5 Episodes beginning Autumn 2014 [Re: Karsten] #966007
07/03/14 01:00 PM
07/03/14 01:00 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 40,644
southeast USA
Jenny100 Offline
GB Reviewer Glitches Moderator
Jenny100  Offline
GB Reviewer Glitches Moderator
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 40,644
southeast USA
Originally Posted By: smulan
Kickstarter is about supporting ideas with your money, not preordering a product. And it's a matter of free will to do it or not.

That's not how Kickstarter is used in practice.
Otherwise there would be no reason for the "Rewards Tiers."
Whether you call them "Rewards Tiers" or a "Pre-order" is just semantics.

Except for the people who donated less than $20 to ***the Kickstarter for Dreamfall Chapters***, the donors expected to get something in return for their money when the project was funded.

Re: Dreamfall Chapters will feature 5 Episodes beginning Autumn 2014 [Re: Jenny100] #966010
07/03/14 01:17 PM
07/03/14 01:17 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 34,312
United Kingdom
Mad Offline
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Posts: 34,312
United Kingdom
I ought to explain why I said that I don't feel pledging via Kickstarter is the same as ordering a product.
It's because if the funding is not raised there won't be a product smile


Time : The Most Precious Commodity
Re: Dreamfall Chapters will feature 5 Episodes beginning Autumn 2014 [Re: Karsten] #966016
07/03/14 01:31 PM
07/03/14 01:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 83,268
In the Naughty Corner
BrownEyedTigre Offline
The Sassy Admin and PR Liaison
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In the Naughty Corner
Most of the comments are understanding and supportive of their decision. You can read the official forum comments here.

Ana wave


Don't feed the Trolls
Re: Dreamfall Chapters will feature 5 Episodes beginning Autumn 2014 [Re: Karsten] #966030
07/03/14 02:11 PM
07/03/14 02:11 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 8,379
Arcadia (twin world of Stark)
venus Offline
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Arcadia (twin world of Stark)
Thanks for the link, Ana. I should really post on that forum; I already have my Dreamer forum badge. The problem is once I've read all the topics, I usually don't have time to make a reply. It's hard enough just keeping up with this forum. lol

It's good to see that most people are understanding, and those that do have complaints are generally polite about it. And Ragnar has been really good about answering questions and concerns. Another forum member did a remarkable job of compiling all his answers here - http://redthreadgames.com/forum/topic/333-a-message-from-ragnar-faq-compilation/. I really don't think his intention was to go back on any promises. If I'm reading it correctly, it seems as though they are just trying to make things work as best they can, and unfortunately it meant changing the original plan. As a creative person myself who has had to change many plans, I can completely understand this. (Certain reactions on various forums regarding the changes many games go through make me glad I'm not a game developer. lol) The full game will still come out - just in episodes. I'm okay with that. Others may not be, but there's always the option to wait until the entire game is out, which I see many are doing.

Also, count me as another one who had no disappointment with Dreamfall whatsoever. Sure I could have done without the combat and stealth (which luckily will not be a part of Chapters), and it wasn't quite on the level of the original, but it's still one of my favorite games. Everything I've seen of Chapters so far makes me think I'll like it even more. smile And I'm sure we'll get answers on April. I think the fact that Sarah Hamilton is doing a voice in Chapters is a broad hint regarding this. Ragnar is just not going to spoil anything before the game comes out, which makes perfect sense to me. smile

Last edited by venus; 07/03/14 02:13 PM.

Interrogator: [True or false?] All mangoes are golden. Nothing golden is cheap. Conclusion - all mangoes are cheap.

Helena: Where are these mangoes?
Re: Dreamfall Chapters will feature 5 Episodes beginning Autumn 2014 [Re: BrownEyedTigre] #966033
07/03/14 02:24 PM
07/03/14 02:24 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 34,312
United Kingdom
Mad Offline
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Mad  Offline
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Posts: 34,312
United Kingdom
Yes. I, for one, have read what was there, BrownEyedTigre. But even so I'm disappointed at the unexpected and long wait ahead.

I rarely pledge for games being released in "episodes" because there is often such a long interval between each one. And there's five to wait for this time.

So, Dreamfall Chapters (as with any other episodic game) will be left alone by me until all episodes are available rolleyes


Time : The Most Precious Commodity
Re: Dreamfall Chapters will feature 5 Episodes beginning Autumn 2014 [Re: Karsten] #966230
07/04/14 03:43 PM
07/04/14 03:43 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 890
Illinois
BubbaJake Offline
Settled Boomer
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 890
Illinois
I wasn't able to read the entire informative laid out here, but if you're saying you have to do in in 5 parts (?) I am on board. I've loved and played TLJ and DreamFall, and there are NO WORDS to describe my feelings for these games. I've been having weather related problems with my internet lately, so this is my situation. PLEASE, do what you must! THIS GAMER is here and wanting to continue the story.

Re: Dreamfall Chapters will feature 5 Episodes beginning Autumn 2014 [Re: Karsten] #966266
07/04/14 08:32 PM
07/04/14 08:32 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 125
Thrudvanger
Thorsgoats Offline
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Thorsgoats  Offline
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Posts: 125
Thrudvanger
I really don't have any problem with episodes either. They were using Kickstarter money to begin with; otherwise there wouldn't be any money to make the game. It also allowed them to make changes as they became necessary. If this is what they have to do, I don't have any problem with it and didn't know there was a problem until I read about it elsewhere. TellTale games are episodic, and I always look forward to a new episode from them. It shouldn't be any different with this game.

Last edited by Thorsgoats; 07/04/14 08:50 PM. Reason: added sentence

"Is there anybody there? Am I alone . . . in this place? Can you see me? Can you hear me? SHOW me you are here!"
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