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Survey for new engine #816495
06/19/12 07:59 AM
06/19/12 07:59 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 7
Germany
blalasaadri Offline OP
Junior Boomer
blalasaadri  Offline OP
Junior Boomer

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Germany
Hello everyone!

I've loved Point & Click Adventures since I was a child and now that the time for my bachelors thesis has come, it's my turn to contribute to this great tradition. To do so however, I need your help. Don't worry, it's not difficult. :-)
Modern smartphones and tablets are becoming evermore powerful and I believe they would be great for Point & Click Adventures (or Point & Tap Adventures, as some call it). But these devices have capabilities that go beyond those of traditional PCs - a wide array of sensors, GPS, mobility...

So, if you were to create an Adventure for mobile devices, which functionalities would you want to use?
  1. Using the devices inclination (e.g. moving virtual leavers by moving the real device)
  2. Turning the device (e.g. opening the number lock on a virtual safe by turning the real device)
  3. Shaking the device (e.g. for mixing cocktails, rattleing gaming machines that have swallowed a coin, etc.)
  4. Using Multitouch (e.g. for pressing several buttons at the same time)
  5. Posting achievements to social media outlets (e.g. Facebook, Twitter, Google+, Tumblr, ...)
  6. Using relative GPS and / or the built in compass (e.g. walking for a certain distance in a certain direction)
  7. Using absolute GPS positions (for localized games only; e.g. walking to a certain point in real life and finding a clue there)
  8. Using the Camera / NFC sensor (for localized games or games connected to certain websites/books/magazines/...; e.g. finding and collecting an item somewhere in real life)
  9. Using the Internet in general (e.g. for real time based puzzles or ingame purchases)
  10. Others (please elaborate)


To answer, just post a reply with the numbers you'd want to use and I am also open to further suggestions. The information I get here will be used for the development of a new Point & Click game engine and for my bachelor dissertation.

Thank you for your help!
Blalasaadri

Re: Survey for new engine [Re: blalasaadri] #816531
06/19/12 11:29 AM
06/19/12 11:29 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 83,238
In the Naughty Corner
BrownEyedTigre Offline
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welcome to GameBoomers Blalasaadri and good luck in your dissertation.

6, 7 and 8 sound very intriguing.

Ana wave


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Re: Survey for new engine [Re: BrownEyedTigre] #816539
06/19/12 11:49 AM
06/19/12 11:49 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 7
Germany
blalasaadri Offline OP
Junior Boomer
blalasaadri  Offline OP
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Thanks for the welcome and the answer. smile

Re: Survey for new engine [Re: blalasaadri] #816670
06/19/12 10:41 PM
06/19/12 10:41 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,316
Canada
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linda333 Offline
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Hi. Numbers 1, 4, 6, and 8 please!

Re: Survey for new engine [Re: linda333] #816680
06/20/12 12:16 AM
06/20/12 12:16 AM
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Posts: 5,588
Oklahoma, USA
Homer6 Offline
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My choice would be 1-4 and 6.


If something gets your goat, it just proves you have a goat to get.
Re: Survey for new engine [Re: blalasaadri] #816741
06/20/12 10:34 AM
06/20/12 10:34 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 40,644
southeast USA
Jenny100 Offline
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My choice would be simple point-and-tap. If you use any of the other choices, I hope you consider including the option for the gamer to play the game using only point-and-tap.

Some of the problems associated with non-standard methods of input include
  • playing the game in a location where you don't want people staring at you (for shaking the device or using the speaker)
  • being a butterfingers and dropping the device when shaking it or moving it around or trying to push several buttons at once
  • playing inside a Faraday-cage-type building where GPS doesn't work
  • not having access to the Internet through the device for similar reasons as the GPS problem, or because you're in a location where they tell you to turn off wireless on laptops or other devices

People who take a game with them to pass the time in a hospital waiting room, on an airplane, on a bus, etc. may not be able to use all the non-standard methods of input. Although it might be nice to allow the player to change which methods of input they want to use during the course of the game (depending on whether they can get on the Internet, etc.), the most important thing would be to allow the game to be playable, even if it means you can't switch back and forth during the game.

Re: Survey for new engine [Re: blalasaadri] #816779
06/20/12 02:33 PM
06/20/12 02:33 PM
Joined: May 2008
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London, UK
rmt Offline
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All of them except 5. I'm curious to see what idea for a game you will come up with... if it must be designed around all these puzzles and input methods. I hope you won't sacrifice a good story though, there is more to a great adventure game than puzzles and new input methods.

What I don't like is when it sorts of become like a Nintendo DS game, no voice acting, replaced instead by writing, when they must show us close ups of the face of who is speaking on top of the scene, hidden objects, when it is static, etc. It should really be just like when we play on the PC, less casual games, more movements in the images, cut scenes, but nothing like the Wii. I don't see myself doing physical training when playing a game, but I guess it all depends on the age group your target is.

Check out Amerzone on iPad from Microïds, they did a very good job of transferring the adventure from the PC to the iPad, and many of your input methods in such a great odyssey/adventure and environments would have benefited that iPad game greatly. But all these input methods would have been only secondary to the adventure.

And for what not to do, also check how White Birds Productions turned Paradise/The Last King of Africa from a wonderful adventure on the PC to a casual game on the iPad not really comparable. Both games mentioned above are from Benoît Sokal.

I would make sure I always have the option of turning off the input method at any time. I have 3G on my iPad and GPS, but I don't know how to set it up and I gave up. I only really need Wi-Fi anyway, cheaper that way.

You also have to be careful that your games will work further in time on many different devices and updates, otherwise it will quickly die. The same for any puzzle using the Internet or things in real life, or phone numbers you need to call in the US (like Dan Brown did with Da Vinci Code). How long can these be maintained in time just to make sure the game still works for someone playing it in 3 to 5 years time?

I don't mind the size of the files either, I always buy maximum capacity devices. I predict the next gen tablets and phones even next year maybe will drop these ridiculous 16 MB memory chips only designed to get people to upgrade to a new more expensive tablet. High capacity memory chips are so inexpensive now, I don't know how they get away with selling those.

But I look forward to see what you come up with. What an interesting topic for a thesis, I don't remember having so much fun doing my own thesis...

Oh, something you could add to your list. I have not tested these Air or Remote apps on iPad to extend to another screen on my PC, but I would love to see a game taking advantage of such a technology, having to play on two screens at the same time.

Last edited by rmt; 06/20/12 08:27 PM.
Re: Survey for new engine [Re: rmt] #816898
06/21/12 06:10 AM
06/21/12 06:10 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 7
Germany
blalasaadri Offline OP
Junior Boomer
blalasaadri  Offline OP
Junior Boomer

Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 7
Germany
First of all: Thanks for the great answers! smile I'm sure, they'll help a lot!
Originally Posted By: Jenny100
My choice would be simple point-and-tap. If you use any of the other choices, I hope you consider including the option for the gamer to play the game using only point-and-tap.

I'm developing the engine, the choice of what to use would lie with the game developers. So, if they decide to make a game that depends on these functions then there's nothing I can do about it - it will however be possible to create a regular Point & Tap game with the engine, yes.
Originally Posted By: Jenny100
Some of the problems associated with non-standard methods of input include...

Yes, those are all very real problems. But again, it depends on the game developers. Some games may be intended to be played outside, so a lack of GPS won't be a problem. Some may be connected to websites, so for certain parts an internet connection will be required. But the engine doesn't force any of these on the game.
Originally Posted By: Jenny100
Although it might be nice to allow the player to change which methods of input they want to use during the course of the game (depending on whether they can get on the Internet, etc.), the most important thing would be to allow the game to be playable, even if it means you can't switch back and forth during the game.

Hm, that's an interesting thought... That of course would have to be supported by the engine (or be very complicated for the game designers). Thanks, good suggestion!
Originally Posted By: rmt
I'm curious to see what idea for a game you will come up with... if it must be designed around all these puzzles and input methods. I hope you won't sacrifice a good story though, there is more to a great adventure game than puzzles and new input methods.
What I don't like is...

Just to clarify: I'm creating an engine, the development of actual games is (currently) only a secondary objective. The engine will be available for anyone to use and so I can't take influence on their stories. I do agree of course, that the story is very important and shouldn't be overwhelmed by the use of these functions.
Originally Posted By: rmt
Check out Amerzone on iPad from Microïds,...
And for what not to do, also check how White Birds Productions turned Paradise/The Last King of Africa from a wonderful adventure on the PC to a casual game on the iPad not really comparable.

Thanks, I'll check those out. Seing what other people did is often useful. smile
Originally Posted By: rmt
You also have to be careful that your games will work further in time on many different devices and updates, otherwise it will quickly die. The same for any puzzle using the Internet or things in real life, or phone numbers you need to call in the US (like Dan Brown did with Da Vinci Code). How long can these be maintained in time just to make sure the game still works for someone playing it in 3 to 5 years time?

That is partly my responsibility and partly that of the game developers. Upward compatibility is of course an issue, but luckily one that I have taken into account. About specific offers for puzzles... Well, I will offer the option for a standard answer, so for example if it can't reach a website (because there's no internet connection, because the website has been shut down, because the site is being blocked, ...) the developer will be able to provide a response.
Originally Posted By: rmt
I don't mind the size of the files either, I always buy maximum capacity devices...

Size is something to be considered - the bigger the files, the more devices won't be able to cope with the game. However, I can only do so much to influence that; including a hard limit would be problematic with future games. Also, if files are loaded that can't be held in the memory, the game might crash. So, there are a few issues here...
Originally Posted By: rmt
But I look forward to see what you come up with. What an interesting topic for a thesis, I don't remember having so much fun doing my own thesis...

So am I. ^^ I will be developing an example game for the engine which will show all of the functions I implemented, explain how to create an adventure with this engine and, if I'm successfull, will be fun to play. Might be short though, as it's not the main topic. We'll see.
Originally Posted By: rmt
Oh, something you could add to your list. [...] I would love to see a game taking advantage of such a technology, having to play on two screens at the same time.

That is an interesting thought. Not sure, how to implement that in a way that it is both helpful and easy to understand and use, but I'll think about it. smile

Re: Survey for new engine [Re: blalasaadri] #816920
06/21/12 08:27 AM
06/21/12 08:27 AM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 416
London, UK
rmt Offline
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rmt  Offline
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The real secret of a great engine would be if some of us without any knowledge of computer language could actually take your engine and create our own adventures. Is that a possibility?

Re: Survey for new engine [Re: blalasaadri] #816975
06/21/12 12:33 PM
06/21/12 12:33 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 7
Germany
blalasaadri Offline OP
Junior Boomer
blalasaadri  Offline OP
Junior Boomer

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Germany
Not initially, no. Maybe later, when I add an editor, but such graphical editors are (nearly) always more limited than computer languages. Of course, it might be enough for adventures, I'd have to think about it... But at a later stage in the project.

Re: Survey for new engine [Re: blalasaadri] #816977
06/21/12 12:44 PM
06/21/12 12:44 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 416
London, UK
rmt Offline
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rmt  Offline
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Keep us posted on that, it would be wonderful, even if we have to learn some basic in computer language... I don't even know if it would be better to start with C++ or Java...

I think the idea of having to go to a park with little sticks, strings and measuring tape to solve an easy mathematical puzzle in the style of the Musgrave Ritual in Sherlock Holmes, and other similar type of puzzles using GPS could be interesting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Adventure_of_the_Musgrave_Ritual

Last edited by rmt; 06/21/12 12:51 PM.
Re: Survey for new engine [Re: rmt] #817156
06/22/12 03:02 AM
06/22/12 03:02 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 7
Germany
blalasaadri Offline OP
Junior Boomer
blalasaadri  Offline OP
Junior Boomer

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Germany
Originally Posted By: rmt
Keep us posted on that, it would be wonderful, even if we have to learn some basic in computer language... I don't even know if it would be better to start with C++ or Java...

I sure will. And when it comes to programming languages, the engine will use a total of 5 languages with the current plan. Of course, the game developer will only need one in the end.
Originally Posted By: rmt
I think the idea of having to go to a park with little sticks, strings and measuring tape to solve an easy mathematical puzzle in the style of the Musgrave Ritual in Sherlock Holmes, and other similar type of puzzles using GPS could be interesting.

This would of course be a local game, if it uses GPS - relative GPS wouldn't make any sense here. It could work for schools for example, if they create games for the pupils. We'll see. smile

Re: Survey for new engine [Re: blalasaadri] #817163
06/22/12 04:27 AM
06/22/12 04:27 AM
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rmt Offline
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rmt  Offline
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The cleverness here would be to think of puzzles that are not local. Maybe there is a way to think up something that still requires you to walk around, measure things, get new data to continue with the puzzle and find the solution.

Land disputes and surveyer's work, delimiting land, etc, probably have apps helping them. Maybe worth a look and see how it could be used in pretend puzzles.

What is the distinction between GPS and relative GPS? Do you mean an in-game false GPS? That could also be useful...

You should check out the game Gabriel Knight 3, there were loads of land measurements and geometry to find on maps and paintings in order to identify what was below ground and how to enter. I can't think of any other game where your idea would have fitted better. It could inspire you.

Last edited by rmt; 06/22/12 04:30 AM.
Re: Survey for new engine [Re: rmt] #817176
06/22/12 05:54 AM
06/22/12 05:54 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 7
Germany
blalasaadri Offline OP
Junior Boomer
blalasaadri  Offline OP
Junior Boomer

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Posts: 7
Germany
The difference is, that "relative GPS" would tell you "you've walked 30m" or something like that, independen from where you are. "Absolute GPS" would be "got to the GPS coordinates (X,Y)". So that's similar to what you wrote - it's not that difficult from a programming standpoint.

I'll have a look at GN3, it's been a while...

Re: Survey for new engine [Re: blalasaadri] #818053
06/26/12 10:06 AM
06/26/12 10:06 AM
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Posts: 7
Germany
blalasaadri Offline OP
Junior Boomer
blalasaadri  Offline OP
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Any more answers? The more I get, the better it will look in my dissertation. wink Also, it will be useful for the development of course.

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