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Re: Syberia 3 Launch Trailer: « Let the Great Migration begin! » [Re: BrownEyedTigre] #1108114
04/22/17 10:59 AM
04/22/17 10:59 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 759
FLORIDA
UruKat Offline
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FLORIDA
I'm so disappointed! Syberia is one of my all-time fave games and I've been looking forward to the new one, but, between the controls and the specs, I doubt I will be able to play it. I guess I will just watch a play-through of the game on YouTube so I can at least see what happens in the game.
It's getting so much harder to find good point and click adventure games anymore.......guess most people like the violence and killing games, otherwise there wouldn't be so many of those now. I have nothing against those types of games, I just don't enjoy them. I play games to relax and explore and take my time wandering around. Maybe I'm just becoming a "dinosaur"......lol.


Following the Yellow Brick Road in search of the White Rabbit so I can fly away to Neverland
Re: Syberia 3 Launch Trailer: « Let the Great Migration begin! » [Re: BrownEyedTigre] #1108119
04/22/17 11:29 AM
04/22/17 11:29 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,411
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Over 9 hours in and I am enjoying the story and so far did come across a nice puzzle type conundrum. So much of this game reminds and looks like the originals, sure would have been perfect if one could simply double click where you wanted to go on the screen and Kate would run there. In the portion of the game I am in now there has been a lot of walking around and my fingers on my left hand go asleep on me holding and using two keys at a time. I have discovered that the two biggest annoyances I have with the controls Is the sudden change in the camera view and the fact that Kate always takes a couple steps after you let go of a key. These two annoyances were quite evident in one part where I had Kate go up some stairs using the 'W' key (up) with the camera view from behind her and immediately when she reached the top of the stairs the camera view switched to in front of her where the 'W' key (up) now made her turn and walk down the stairs.. I laughed out loud as this happened several times and I couldn't get her to stay at the top of the stairs because she wouldn't stop as soon as I let go of the key. I eventually had to time it by letting go of the 'W' key before she reached the top as she then took two steps more on her own which now gave me time to switch to the 'S' Key (down) to continue to walk down the same street. Other than the controls I am enjoying the ride.


"Don't Hate Me Because I Am Beautiful...There Are Many Other Reasons!"
Re: Syberia 3 Launch Trailer: « Let the Great Migration begin! » [Re: BrownEyedTigre] #1108120
04/22/17 11:58 AM
04/22/17 11:58 AM
Joined: Apr 2006
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Chicago
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"Other than the controls I am enjoying the ride."

Good to hear!

Re: Syberia 3 Launch Trailer: « Let the Great Migration begin! » [Re: BrownEyedTigre] #1108166
04/22/17 09:14 PM
04/22/17 09:14 PM
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Long Beach NSW Australia
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I second what GreyFuss has said, and am going to try a controller just to see the difference.


Quantity has a quality all of its own
Re: Syberia 3 Launch Trailer: « Let the Great Migration begin! » [Re: BrownEyedTigre] #1108171
04/22/17 09:59 PM
04/22/17 09:59 PM
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Posts: 1,001
SE Michigan
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I am suddenly ambivalent. Like most of you, I've been anxious to get and play this game because I loved the other two. I went to Steam tonight intending to buy it, but I read all (Well...several) of the reviews posted and some are pretty scathing. None are unconditionally positive. Now I'm not at all sure if I wish to play it. You who have it please keep commenting. Many of us will be checking your comments.


If all the people were heroes, there would be no one to watch the parades.
Re: Syberia 3 Launch Trailer: « Let the Great Migration begin! » [Re: BrownEyedTigre] #1108172
04/22/17 10:31 PM
04/22/17 10:31 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
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In Missouri near St. Louis
Draclvr Online content
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Draclvr  Online Content
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I might try it when it is on sale, but I'm thinking $40 is too much for something which doesn't sound like a game I could enjoy.


In my PC corner for the winter, my little heater by my side, to game, read and knit.
Re: Syberia 3 Launch Trailer: « Let the Great Migration begin! » [Re: BrownEyedTigre] #1108196
04/23/17 08:11 AM
04/23/17 08:11 AM
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Sunny Arizona
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Wow, and to think I ordered the game from Amazon and should get it in the next few days.

I was planning on using the latest Syberia game to help me break away from, let's just say, other type games that have become my main course of playing. I still think I will stop with those particular games as I have some adventure games backed up that I haven't played yet.

In any event, I do happen to have a few controllers and will see which one works the best with Syberia 3.

If I think I can provide any pertinent input after playing the game I will post.

Good luck to all and let's hope Microids makes changes to make the game more enjoyable.

Robert


"Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened."

-Dr. Seuss
Re: Syberia 3 Launch Trailer: « Let the Great Migration begin! » [Re: BrownEyedTigre] #1108205
04/23/17 09:53 AM
04/23/17 09:53 AM
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In Missouri near St. Louis
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Supposedly they are working on a patch to make the controls better for both PC and controllers.


In my PC corner for the winter, my little heater by my side, to game, read and knit.
Re: Syberia 3 Launch Trailer: « Let the Great Migration begin! » [Re: BrownEyedTigre] #1108226
04/23/17 12:53 PM
04/23/17 12:53 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 39,395
southeast USA
Jenny100 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Draclvr
Supposedly they are working on a patch to make the controls better for both PC and controllers.

I'm dubious about how much they can do to improve the keyboard controls.
Going by what GreyFuss posted earlier, the game is using camera-relative control, and camera-relative control isn't easily changeable to character-relative control.
Originally Posted By: GreyFuss
I have discovered that the two biggest annoyances I have with the controls is the sudden change in the camera view and the fact that Kate always takes a couple steps after you let go of a key. These two annoyances were quite evident in one part where I had Kate go up some stairs using the 'W' key (up) with the camera view from behind her and immediately when she reached the top of the stairs the camera view switched to in front of her where the 'W' key (up) now made her turn and walk down the stairs.

If the game had been using character-relative control, Kate would have kept moving forward up the stairs and proceeding forward, no matter which way the camera flipped around. She would not have turned around and gone back downstairs. In order to move her to the right side of the screen, you'd have to tap the D key (or right arrow key) until she turned and use the W key (or up arrow) to move. Alternatively many PC games allow you to steer with the mouse and use the A and D keys for strafing. Character-relative controls also often allow mapping the W key to a mouse button. Character-relative controls are better for keyboard and keyboard/mouse control.

Follow-cam (aka over-the-shoulder) may be considered a type of 3rd person because you see your character on the screen, but actually has more in common with 1st person. With follow-cam, you're always behind your character and controls are always character-relative, just as with 1st person. In contrast, in the more common "3rd person" view in adventure games, you might be viewing your character from the front, the side, the back, at an angle, etc., but mostly you're not behind him. Not many adventure games use follow-cam, but Uru and Talos Principle had it as an option and Dreamfall used it (though Dreamfall had an issue with the turning axis being in the wrong place, making it more confusing to control with keyboard than the countless keyboard-controlled RPG's and action games that "Darkside" gamers may have played).

With camera-relative control, the direction your character is moving changes when the camera flips around, and you can end up in a loop going back and forth through a door or going up and down stairs. The D key always means go to the right side of the screen. So if the camera flips and the right side of the screen changes 180 degrees from what it was before, you'll be going back and forth forever. Similarly the A key always means go to the left side of the screen, the W key means go toward the back of the screen, and the S key means go toward the front of the screen, and a 180 degree screen flip will send you back and forth forever.

Camera-relative control works fairly well with a gamepad because you're pushing a thumbstick in the direction you want the character to move. This is not so easy with keyboard keys.

In contrast, Character-relative control doesn't work so well with a gamepad because of the difficulty of getting the character to run in a straight line. Unless you are VERY good with the gamepad thumbstick, the character ends up running in arcs, veering slightly left or right because of the difficulty of pushing the thumbstick exactly upward.

The first adventure game I played with camera-relative control was Broken Sword 3 (BS3), and I had a terrible time controlling it, mostly because I was used to character-relative keyboard controls (the norm for keyboard-controlled and keyboard/mouse-controlled PC games back then) and my reflexes were all wrong for camera-relative. However one thing the developer (Revolution) did was to prevent the character from suddenly changing direction when the camera flipped around. For as long as you continued to hold the key down, he'd continue running in the same direction as before the camera flipped. This still wasn't ideal for people with shaky hands, but at least Revolution recognized there was a problem and as long as your hands were steady you wouldn't suddenly reverse direction or run off at some weird angle when the camera flipped.

Grim Fandango used character-relative control. It was still a bit confusing because it wasn't follow-cam, and when Manny was facing you, his right would be your left, etc. But it wasn't that hard for me to keep track of. Nowhere near as hard for me as BS3. People may have problems with keyboard control in both Grim Fandango and Syberia 3, but the two control schemes are definitely not the same.

Many years ago, around the time BS3 was released, I remember some guy posting to the adventure newsgroup to complain about the camera-relative keyboard controls in BS3. He said he had to relearn all his keyboard reflexes in order to play it, and then after he finished BS3, he had to unlearn his BS3 reflexes and relearn his normal keyboard reflexes all over again in order to play all his other games. Apparently all his other games used character-relative control.

Re: Syberia 3 Launch Trailer: « Let the Great Migration begin! » [Re: BrownEyedTigre] #1108235
04/23/17 04:21 PM
04/23/17 04:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 365
frazap Offline
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I'm a few hours into the game and enjoy it so far. The really good thing is the way Sokal's Syberia universe comes to life in 3D and the story is promising. I'm hooked and will definitely see this one til the end. The rest is not very good though. Bad controls (and i'm using a controller), a very limited camera, some sound issues with missing lines of dialogue (compared with the subtitles), a mediocre, albeit functional, technical quality of the graphics, a "casual feel" to some scenes where you get a static close-up view of half a room and you object is to rummage around to find the odd object, a couple of contrived and silly puzzles so far and one instance of the game freezing completely. The auto-save took me right back to the point where it froze though.

Simply a rather unpolished game with production values that are not on the triple A level that the price would suggest. But again, I really enjoy it.:)

Last edited by frazap; 04/23/17 04:22 PM.
Re: Syberia 3 Launch Trailer: « Let the Great Migration begin! » [Re: BrownEyedTigre] #1108240
04/23/17 05:20 PM
04/23/17 05:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
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C
Cari Offline
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Having read the customers views on Steam they have reinforced my doubts for this long awaited sequel. How many times have experiments with 3d graphics produced
so many problems for the players.
I’ll say no more, but read the reviews before shelling out your 40$

Re: Syberia 3 Launch Trailer: « Let the Great Migration begin! » [Re: Cari] #1108305
04/24/17 08:17 AM
04/24/17 08:17 AM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 28,857
United Kingdom
Mad Offline
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"The first adventure game I played with camera-relative control was Broken Sword 3 (BS3), and I had a terrible time controlling it"

Me, too, Jenny100. In fact I got so fed up of it I never bothered to finish the game.
And there's certainly no way I would ever want to deal with it again !! rolleyes


Time : The Most Precious Commodity
Re: Syberia 3 Launch Trailer: « Let the Great Migration begin! » [Re: BrownEyedTigre] #1108338
04/24/17 10:47 AM
04/24/17 10:47 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,310
Larnaca, Cyprus
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Larnaca, Cyprus
Wow, I am completely surprised by the feedback, I have been waiting for Syberia 3 for so long I was pretty much certain I would buy the Collector's Edition of the game. But judging by the feedback I will save my money for another game then. Unfortunately, it seems another game has caught the extreme consolidis virus where developers only care about consoles and pc is the black sheep. Even the €15 cd key looks like too expensive for me now. So much for point and click, more like wasd and push. smirk smirk


"Cannot The Kingdom Of Salvation Take Me Home?"

R.I.P Cliff Burton
Re: Syberia 3 Launch Trailer: « Let the Great Migration begin! » [Re: Mad] #1108350
04/24/17 12:32 PM
04/24/17 12:32 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 39,395
southeast USA
Jenny100 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mad
"The first adventure game I played with camera-relative control was Broken Sword 3 (BS3), and I had a terrible time controlling it"

Me, too, Jenny100. In fact I got so fed up of it I never bothered to finish the game.
And there's certainly no way I would ever want to deal with it again !!

A lot depends on what you're used to, and how fast you can adapt (or if you can adapt). If you've watched any of the YouTube videos about the backwards-steering bicycle like this one...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFzDaBzBlL0
The situation is similar with keyboard controls, though you're less apt to fall on the floor using a keyboard than you are riding a backwards-steering bike. But you still develop different reflexes for character-relative vs camera-relative control and do all sorts of things to compensate for direction without thinking. Then when suddenly confronted with the "other" control scheme, you can't adapt -- at least not quickly -- and instead of correcting for minor deviations in intended direction, you make them even worse. It's probably worse for people who've mastered character-relative controls than it is for people who've never used keyboard controls before.

If you're able to use a gamepad, you can use the gamepad for games with camera-relative controls and use the keyboard for games with character-relative controls, and the control systems are different enough that you can develop reflexes for both that don't contradict each other.

But not everyone can use a gamepad, even if they're willing to invest in one.
No one with bad thumb joints (or clumsier-than-normal thumbs) will be able to use a gamepad.

Re: Syberia 3 Launch Trailer: « Let the Great Migration begin! » [Re: Jenny100] #1108364
04/24/17 03:31 PM
04/24/17 03:31 PM
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Denmark, Europe
Karsten Offline
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Jenny100

I agree with you here smile

The reason I do this is because I can just as easily use the wsad keys for movement and the mouse for movement ass well. The only thing I will have much trouble with is if the camere in the game is not fixed, but bobbing (sp?) up and down. I wil then motion sickness very fast - and this is enough for me to never finish the game. Evem though it seems to be very great game.

I have played Morrowind and Oblivion and the Star Wars games made by Bioware and Obsidian without any problems - all these games have you use the wsad keys for movement. If you have played the (very) old might and magic games (1-7) you would have gotten used to do movement in these games by using the wsad keys.

I'm also having trouble with this:

When the developers (or publishers or both) thinks they need sort of middle ground between the wsad keys and the mouse for movements, it really ends up annoying both groups - let's call them pc players and console players for now.
[The Longest Journey: Dreamfall - I'm looking at you! and DA: Inquisition I'm also partly looking at you!] In these games, the pc controls didn't work properly and even some console players complained about the terrible controls.

I haven't yet played Syberia 3 as of now but from I have seen so from the trailer I have this to say:

Don't know about the controls, but the visuals look like they lack or are short of a few textures, the voice acting seem terrible, and is it really so that Kate's voice isn't the original voice from the first two Syberia games...


Adventure gaming is fun smile

Re: Syberia 3 Launch Trailer: « Let the Great Migration begin! » [Re: Karsten] #1108365
04/24/17 03:42 PM
04/24/17 03:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 76,678
In the Naughty Corner
BrownEyedTigre Online happy OP
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Originally Posted By: Karsten

Don't know about the controls, but the visuals look like they lack or are short of a few textures, the voice acting seem terrible, and is it really so that Kate's voice isn't the original voice from the first two Syberia games...



The original English speaking voice actor from the first Syberia'a are the same one used in Syberia 3.


Don't feed the Trolls
Re: Syberia 3 Launch Trailer: « Let the Great Migration begin! » [Re: BrownEyedTigre] #1108392
04/24/17 07:18 PM
04/24/17 07:18 PM
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Posts: 638
Sweden
Mikael Offline
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Sweden
Besides having looked forward to playing this game since I finished Syberia II almost 13 years ago, I was actually eager to try it with my Xbox 360 controller. I've recently used the controller with very satisfying results for the excellent games Firewatch and Gone Home (which I, by the way, recommend to everyone). However, only a third of the commands work with the controller. I can move around, and bring up the menu (with the wrong button, I might add). The buttons for dialogue, inventory items, etc. are simply dead.

I've spent a few hours trying to get around this, and/or fix it somehow, but no such luck. I tried to use the keyboard/mouse instead, and it works as it's supposed to. But this is not a game made for keyboard/mouse control. That would be like using a joystick for Microsoft Word.

I will wait for the patch now, and see what it does. Many more things should be impoved:

The cursor icon that is hardly visible.

The inventory is clunky and ineffective.

The game only saves at checkpoints.

No manual graphics optimization, which is bad news for players that don't have top notch computers.

Dialogues can't be bypassed. This is crucial when portions have to be replayed due to the save system.

I hate to be so critical, but these things have to be said. I'm sure that the game is excellent, but we can't let it be destroyed by an interface that might be the buggiest ever.


Re: Syberia 3 Launch Trailer: « Let the Great Migration begin! » [Re: BrownEyedTigre] #1108399
04/24/17 08:20 PM
04/24/17 08:20 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
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In Missouri near St. Louis
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Thanks, Mikael - your opinion carries a lot of weight for me!


In my PC corner for the winter, my little heater by my side, to game, read and knit.
Re: Syberia 3 Launch Trailer: « Let the Great Migration begin! » [Re: BrownEyedTigre] #1108405
04/24/17 10:10 PM
04/24/17 10:10 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,001
SE Michigan
The Haze Offline
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DRAT! These are exactly the kinds of reactions that were written when Still Life II was released. The comments were correct and after two rather good games (Post Mortem and Still Life) they messed things up and killed the series. Why make two beautiful and brilliant games and then change the concept so completely? Ah well, I'm sure there was a sound business reason for it.


If all the people were heroes, there would be no one to watch the parades.
Re: Syberia 3 Launch Trailer: « Let the Great Migration begin! » [Re: BrownEyedTigre] #1108407
04/24/17 10:50 PM
04/24/17 10:50 PM
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Posts: 1,525
oldmariner Offline
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The reviews are not kind I've been looking around to see what is being said because I really wanted this game. The comments here caused a bit of pause and this review re-enforced people's concerns.
Review
This did not read like one of those reviews written by someone who does not like Adventure games.
Deciding not to buy I watched a complete play through on You Tube something I normally would not do. When finished I knew I made the right choice If you are considering buying this game read the review but whatever you do don't watch a complete play through on you tube. I'm not going to let the cat out of the bag and you really don't want to know. That's why I brought it up, don't watch the play through

Re: Syberia 3 Launch Trailer: « Let the Great Migration begin! » [Re: BrownEyedTigre] #1108416
04/25/17 03:56 AM
04/25/17 03:56 AM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 365
frazap Offline
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Being what is probably halfway through the game I can say that the review is pretty much spot on, maybe even a little too kind on the control/camera issue.

Re: Syberia 3 Launch Trailer: « Let the Great Migration begin! » [Re: BrownEyedTigre] #1108446
04/25/17 07:45 AM
04/25/17 07:45 AM
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Posts: 18,262
Massachusetts
GBC Offline
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Massachusetts
I'm soooo disappointed. I waited so long for it to be released. I can only play point and click. sad


Gail
Re: Syberia 3 Launch Trailer: « Let the Great Migration begin! » [Re: BrownEyedTigre] #1108451
04/25/17 08:10 AM
04/25/17 08:10 AM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 232
UK
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lynthorpe Offline
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UK
I am the same GBC.
This is all soooo disappointing. Like many, I was hoping it would be like the first two. I love third person P&C which was what I was expecting from this. I will NOT be purchasing it. I may be a dinosaur but, sorry, that is the sort of game I like. Added to which it seems VERY expensive.
If you're going to try and sell a game based on the success of previous games in the series, then that, surely is your target market. Why mess with it?

Re: Syberia 3 Launch Trailer: « Let the Great Migration begin! » [Re: BrownEyedTigre] #1108461
04/25/17 08:45 AM
04/25/17 08:45 AM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 6,064
The Country
Winfrey Offline
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The Country
I replayed Syberia 1 and half way thru Syberia 2..... at least I have been able to enjoy Syberia again!!


Would that I could be the peacemaker in your soul that I might turn the discord and the rivalry of your elements into oneness and melody
Gibran
Re: Syberia 3 Launch Trailer: « Let the Great Migration begin! » #1108463
04/25/17 08:54 AM
04/25/17 08:54 AM
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Enland
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Enland
Hi, I was just wondering if anyone knows when or if there is to be a Syberia 3 walkthrough any time soon? I am looking forward to the delivery of the above (I hope, as not sure it's the right one, as the walkthrough that I found wasn't Syberia 3 but the third part of Syberia two)! The art work and clips are all correct, but the walkthrough was not. Be good if you have info on such. thanks.


Nothing is forever
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