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Twisty List Results #117266
07/13/03 02:31 PM
07/13/03 02:31 PM
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 15,376
Upper Arlington, Ohio
Space Quest Fan Offline OP
Graduate Boomer
Space Quest Fan  Offline OP
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 15,376
Upper Arlington, Ohio
Was anyone surpised by the outcome of the list? I loved the top two games and I was really impressed that Gabriel Knight 2 hung in there for being such an older game. It is interesting that both the first person and third person games rated highly. Thanks again to flotsam for all the time to put the list together. thumbsup


It's nice to be important but it is much more important to be nice.
Re: Twisty List Results #117267
07/13/03 11:16 PM
07/13/03 11:16 PM
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 26,917
Stony Brook, New York, USA
Becky Offline
The Medieval Lady
Becky  Offline
The Medieval Lady
Sonic Boomer

Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 26,917
Stony Brook, New York, USA
I think the twisty list is fascinating. There are a few games whose ranking is stable and near the top every year on the list. You can see this if you compare the twisty list results from past years. http://www.gameboomers.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=15&submit=Go


Not a surprise in 2003:

The Longest Journey (#1 in 2003) ranked #1 in 2002 and #2 in 2001. Only game to make #1 on the Twisty List for two years running.

Gabriel Knight 2 (#4 in 2003) ranked #2 in 2002 and #1 in 2001.

Myst (#6 in 2003) ranked #4 in 2002 and tied for #3 in 2001.


Surprises:

Discworld Noir. It hasn't made the top 20 on the Twisty List before. It rose from #50 in 2001 to a tie for #18 in 2003. It's an older game -- why is it surfacing now?

Dark Fall. It's amazing that enough Boomers purchased this game for it to be such a presence, when it wasn't available last year for purchase in any retail outlet -- either online or in stores. I think this even trumps Syberia's accomplishment.


Movement Down On the List:

Timelapse. Ranked #3 in 2000, #6 in 2001, tied for #14 in 2002, tied for #20 in 2003.

Shivers. Ranked #9 in 2000, #5 in 2001, #12 in 2002, tied for #28 in 2003.

Re: Twisty List Results #117268
07/13/03 11:53 PM
07/13/03 11:53 PM
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 26,917
Stony Brook, New York, USA
Becky Offline
The Medieval Lady
Becky  Offline
The Medieval Lady
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Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 26,917
Stony Brook, New York, USA
Is Grim Fandango the only game with keyboard controls to make the top 20 on the Twisty List this year?

Re: Twisty List Results #117269
07/14/03 01:54 AM
07/14/03 01:54 AM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 4,234
Long Beach NSW Australia
flotsam Offline
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flotsam  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 4,234
Long Beach NSW Australia
Some nice analysis becky smile
Its interesting to speculate why games move up and down. Perhaps Discworld Noir has simply been played now by more people.
And yes, as far as I know GF is the only keyboard controlled game in the top 20.

flotsam


Quantity has a quality all of its own
Re: Twisty List Results #117270
07/14/03 07:23 AM
07/14/03 07:23 AM
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,082
E Sussex UK
Jude Offline
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I am still annoyed with myself for not giving Flotsam my choices. By the time I had made up my mind it was too late. Thanks very much for all the effort you put into this - a lot of people will be buying more games as a result of this list.

I am sure at one time our messages were dated so we knew when they had been posted. I can no longer tell if I am responding on something which is out of date, other than the position of the post in the list of subjects.

Re: Twisty List Results #117271
07/14/03 08:20 AM
07/14/03 08:20 AM
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 26,917
Stony Brook, New York, USA
Becky Offline
The Medieval Lady
Becky  Offline
The Medieval Lady
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Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 26,917
Stony Brook, New York, USA
I've always been surprised that the Kings Quest games don't rank more highly on the list. This could be because they are older games, but then age doesn't seem to effect GK2's ranking or Grim Fandango's rankng or Zork Nemesis's ranking, etc.

I wonder if there is an X factor about a game that makes it age gracefully and claim an enduring place in the heart of gamers.

Alternatively, is there a chance that those of us who hang out at Gameboomers represent only a part of the adventure gaming public, and a Twisty List from another adventure gaming board would come up with different results?

Re: Twisty List Results #117272
07/14/03 08:23 AM
07/14/03 08:23 AM
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 26,917
Stony Brook, New York, USA
Becky Offline
The Medieval Lady
Becky  Offline
The Medieval Lady
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Posts: 26,917
Stony Brook, New York, USA
Jude -- have you tried this yet?

Quote:
You have to update your profile to the new time/date, time zone and then click update profile. Even if the time or the time zone are the default - change them and adjust them back. It needs to be told that it is what you wanted.

Some computers might need a log off/log on or a hard boot to catch. This was due to the upgrade of the board and personalization of the time.

Re: Twisty List Results #117273
07/14/03 11:32 AM
07/14/03 11:32 AM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,453
Texas
nickie Offline
Grand wizard of high mucky muck
nickie  Offline
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Texas
Interesting thought, Becky. I wonder if some of the rankings aren't affected by the recent threads on some of those older games, bringing them more to attention than others.


"How could drops of water know themselves to be a river? Yet the river flows on."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Re: Twisty List Results #117274
07/15/03 09:30 AM
07/15/03 09:30 AM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,545
Piney Woods of East Texas
joanieS Offline
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I LOVE the King's Quest series. For some reason I put them in an entirely different category from the games I listed as adventures so didn't include them in my vote.


"A friend is someone who knows the song in your heart and can sing it back to you when you have forgotten the words." ...unknown
Re: Twisty List Results #117275
07/15/03 02:52 PM
07/15/03 02:52 PM
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 26,917
Stony Brook, New York, USA
Becky Offline
The Medieval Lady
Becky  Offline
The Medieval Lady
Sonic Boomer

Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 26,917
Stony Brook, New York, USA
Quote:
I LOVE the King's Quest series. For some reason I put them in an entirely different category from the games I listed as adventures
Wow, I think of the King's Quest games as the very essence of an adventure game. Myst and other similar games are relative newcomers to the genre compared to King's Quest.

It's going to be very interesting doing the Twisty List next year because of all the sequels coming out. Ten of the top twenty from the 2003 Twisty List are sequels, and many of the sequels coming out soon are derived from some of these top games. I wonder if the top twenty next year will be a lot different from this year.

(Flotsam, I apologize for just assuming that, of course you will do a Twisted List next year. I know it's a tremendous amount of work for you, but I do look forward to it so!)

Re: Twisty List Results #117276
07/15/03 04:11 PM
07/15/03 04:11 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,152
New Baltimore, MI
lonewolf32 Offline
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New Baltimore, MI
I was ready to put all of the king's quest (1-7, I don't count 8) games down in my list. I grew up on that series! However I was recently playing some of them, and looking back there are some annoying parts (being able to get stuck by giving away a crucial item, having to wait around by chance to see the fairies and get their dust!, sudden deaths, etc.). So I limited their presence on my list, but they were there. Its OK those flaws are there though, adventure gaming was in its infancy. Its nice replaying the games with the Tierra versions, I like having voiceovers and music. I hope they continue their great work!


Dave
Re: Twisty List Results #117277
07/15/03 08:58 PM
07/15/03 08:58 PM
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 26,917
Stony Brook, New York, USA
Becky Offline
The Medieval Lady
Becky  Offline
The Medieval Lady
Sonic Boomer

Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 26,917
Stony Brook, New York, USA
I was CERTAIN that King's Quest 7 came out in 1997. But no, I checked Peter's Pagoda site and the game was published in 1994. King's Quest 1 came out in 1984. These games are ancient. No wonder they have difficulty competing against the newer games on the list.

Also, there are so many King's Quest games that the votes may tend to get split up.

I haven't downloaded the Tierra games yet. Maybe it's time.

Re: Twisty List Results #117278
07/16/03 04:07 AM
07/16/03 04:07 AM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 334
the Netherlands
B
Betje Offline
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Betje  Offline
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B

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 334
the Netherlands
Quote:
Originally posted by Becky:

Alternatively, is there a chance that those of us who hang out at Gameboomers represent only a part of the adventure gaming public, and a Twisty List from another adventure gaming board would come up with different results?
Yes. A recent list at JA:

1. The Longest Journey
2. GK (Gabriel Knight) 2
3. Grim Fandango
4. GK 3
5. MI (Monkey Island) 2
6. MI 3
7. GK 1
8. Day of the Tentacle
9. Riven
10. Broken Sword
11. MI 1
12. King's Quest VI
13. Myst
14. Sanitarium
15. Syberia


The beaded curtain slams shut behind you. There's no turning back now...
Re: Twisty List Results #117279
07/16/03 06:02 AM
07/16/03 06:02 AM
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 26,917
Stony Brook, New York, USA
Becky Offline
The Medieval Lady
Becky  Offline
The Medieval Lady
Sonic Boomer

Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 26,917
Stony Brook, New York, USA
Comparing the GB top 15 list:

1. The Longest Journey
2. Syberia
3. Myst 2: Riven
4. Gabriel Knight 2: The Beast Within
5. Dark Fall
6. Myst/RealMyst
7. Grim Fandango
8. Zork Nemesis
9. Zork Grand Inquisitor
10. Myst 3: Exile
11. Broken Sword 1: Shadow of the Templars/Circle of Blood
12. Amber: Journeys Beyond
13. Sanitarium
14. Gabriel Knight 1: Sins of the Fathers
15. Gabriel Knight 3: Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned

Re: Twisty List Results #117280
07/16/03 06:03 AM
07/16/03 06:03 AM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,005
Orillia, Ontario, Canada
colpet Offline
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colpet  Offline
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Orillia, Ontario, Canada
Quote:
Alternatively, is there a chance that those of us who hang out at Gameboomers represent only a part of the adventure gaming public, and a Twisty List from another adventure gaming board would come up with different results?
I visit the Just Adventure forums as well, but I find that GB does seem to represent the subset of adventure games that I most enjoy. When I first visited JAVE, I was surprised at what was included under the heading of Adventure. It's interesting that I've only played 5 of those top 15 from JAVE. I own all of them except for the King's Quest one, and I do intend to play the GK series and Sanitarium at some point. I am definitely skewed towards first person games, though I thoroughly enjoyed TLJ and Syberia. I couldn't finish Grim Fandango. The game was good, but the keyboard controls were awkward for me.

Re: Twisty List Results #117281
07/16/03 06:13 AM
07/16/03 06:13 AM
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 26,917
Stony Brook, New York, USA
Becky Offline
The Medieval Lady
Becky  Offline
The Medieval Lady
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Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 26,917
Stony Brook, New York, USA
The lists are fairly similar. At JA -- Monkey Island 1, 2 and 3, Day of the Tentacle and King's Quest VI replace the GB votes for Dark Fall, the Zorks, Myst III Exile and Amber. Am I right that the differing JA choices are all third person games, whereas the GB games that replace them are first person?

The JA list also includes only one keyboard game (Grim Fandango). Monkey Island 4, which would seem a logical choice for the JA list, is surprisingly excluded (perhaps because of the keyboard controls???). I don't mind keyboard controls per se -- I just think it's interesting that they are noticeably absent in these lists.

The JA differing choices are older games -- 1990 (MI1) 1991 (MI2) 1992 (Day of the Tentacle) 1993 (King's Quest VI) 1997 (MI3). Compared to the differing GB choices 1996 (Amber and Zork Nemesis) 1997 (Zork Grand Inquisitor) 2001 (Myst III) and 2002 (Dark Fall).

Off hand, I'd say that the JA list shows there's a pent-up demand for a good third person game with mouse control.

Re: Twisty List Results #117282
07/16/03 06:44 AM
07/16/03 06:44 AM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 334
the Netherlands
B
Betje Offline
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Betje  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 334
the Netherlands
IMO the lists reflect real differences between the two forums.

- Syberia 2 GB <-> 15 JA. That's a remarkable difference, not a similarity. Has probably a lot to do with the average age.
- Dark Fall is what I would call a real "Gameboomers game". No-one ever mentions it at JA.
- The MI games are often discussed at JA. Not at GB.
- MI 4 is generally hated at JA. Keyboard controls may play a part, yes.


The beaded curtain slams shut behind you. There's no turning back now...
Re: Twisty List Results #117283
07/16/03 09:16 AM
07/16/03 09:16 AM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,565
Colden,N.Y.
Rckasea Offline
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Posts: 2,565
Colden,N.Y.
Hello Colpet,
I don't play many keyboard control games. I did get through Grim Fandango with a cheap PC Game pad.
The little joystick and four buttons worked great. I did a similar thing to play American Mcgee's Alice. I set up my five button mouse to use instead of keyboard hot keys.
Best Wishes,
Rick


" If you decide not to chose, You still have made a choice"....Getty Lee
Re: Twisty List Results #117284
07/16/03 03:35 PM
07/16/03 03:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,005
Orillia, Ontario, Canada
colpet Offline
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colpet  Offline
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Orillia, Ontario, Canada
Thanks for the recommendation, Rckasea wave .

Re: Twisty List Results #117285
07/16/03 07:57 PM
07/16/03 07:57 PM
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 26,917
Stony Brook, New York, USA
Becky Offline
The Medieval Lady
Becky  Offline
The Medieval Lady
Sonic Boomer

Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 26,917
Stony Brook, New York, USA
Quote:
- Syberia 2 GB <-> 15 JA. That's a remarkable difference, not a similarity. Has probably a lot to do with the average age.
You are right, in the case of Syberia, ranking #2 versus ranking #15 is significant, and I shouldn't downplay that difference.

Betje -- when I said that the lists were similar, I meant that (given the hundreds of adventure games that could have garnered votes) having ten games end up in the top fifteen in both lists shows that there is some similarity or at least a degree of agreement as to which games are truly sucessful.

As for Syberia's difference in ranking -- maybe, as you say, the age factor made a difference.

Also, the games that are frequently mentioned in a forum may also make a difference -- if you loved Darkfall, you'll hang out in a forum that discusses it. If you loved the Monkey Island games you're less likely to hang out in a forum that neglects them. If a game is currently being discussed in the forum at the time the list is compiled, the discussion itself could have an effect on how many gamers choose it for the list.

Someone also mentioned in a recent thread that having acquired a high ranking on the list in previous years makes a difference. The purpose of the Twisty List is to give everyone ideas of good games to play, so more of us play the ones that make the list, and next year those games will have reached a larger audience who can then vote for them. Certain games may become Twisted List Incumbants.

Re: Twisty List Results #117286
07/17/03 05:45 PM
07/17/03 05:45 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 334
the Netherlands
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Betje Offline
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Betje  Offline
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B

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Posts: 334
the Netherlands
Becky, you stress the similarities, I stress the differences, that's all. I agree with everything you've said, including the 3rd person perspective. Well... almost everything. smile I think JA-gamers generally prefer lighter, more humorous games. Pro/Anti camps are stronger too (Syberia, Myst clones, third-person, etcetera).


The beaded curtain slams shut behind you. There's no turning back now...
Re: Twisty List Results #117287
07/17/03 07:57 PM
07/17/03 07:57 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,216
Virginia's wetland dimension
Salar of Myst Offline
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Virginia's wetland dimension
Shorah smile

I havent checked the JA forums as yet. When you say there is a general age difference do you mean that they prefer newer games? or are generally younger than the folks on Boomers?

Any rate, I have found the recommendations on here to be very helpful. laugh

The third person/1st person view debate may ease as technology makes it easier to provide both options (and more!) economically. Seems like Im seeing more and more games which allow you to shift pov. smile

Re: Twisty List Results #117288
07/18/03 06:19 AM
07/18/03 06:19 AM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 334
the Netherlands
B
Betje Offline
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Betje  Offline
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B

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 334
the Netherlands
Salar, the average age at JA is much younger. Many, if not most, Gameboomers are Babyboomers. Myself included. smile I don't think JA posters prefer newer games, but I could easily be wrong.

Quote:
Any rate, I have found the recommendations on here to be very helpful. laugh
Oh yes, before I started reading adventure game forums I had no idea there were that many games. I've been buying adventures ever since, both new and old.


The beaded curtain slams shut behind you. There's no turning back now...
Re: Twisty List Results #117289
07/18/03 08:52 AM
07/18/03 08:52 AM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,545
Piney Woods of East Texas
joanieS Offline
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joanieS  Offline
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Posts: 1,545
Piney Woods of East Texas
This just confirms I am in the right place with GameBoomers as #1!!!!! Even tho I'm one of those old post-boomer duffers.

happydance


"A friend is someone who knows the song in your heart and can sing it back to you when you have forgotten the words." ...unknown
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