And here I can remember them saying that Windows 10 would be the last version and that there would just be updates from time to time. Yeah, right.

Windows 11

Set for a fall release, apparently. One of its lauded features is a new start menu and task bar - just what we all wanted, right? It definitely looks like they are trying to make it more tablet friendly again.

I have also read that they will be dropping support for Windows 10 in 2025.

What I'm seeing, I'm liking quite a lot. But like you said, THEY LIED TO US!

Sick to death of Microsoft

Thanks ?

Do they actually SHOW anything in that "What's next for Windows" video or just keep talking. I skipped around in it a little but found it boring, not being able to actually see anything.

I watched a short video clip last week, but I don't remember where it was. I'll see if I can find it.

If you have the patience, this video actually shows some of the new features.

I did not see a single thing that was of any real interest to me, but then again I am obviously not the target audience anyway.

Thanks Marian. I watched it. Mostly about apps and Android, neither of which I'm familiar with (such as my Android cell phone). I don't see what is so different that it needs to be a new OS rather than updates, as we were told was the future when they put Windows 10 out.

Oh, and I think I saw somewhere while looking around that the support will go to 2026 rather than 2025. Whoopee!

Do you have a tablet Marian? I do not. I don't think I would know how to use it or what to do with it.

We have a very old iPad which is so outdated that we can barely check our email with it and it is essentially useless. I have never used it, but my son has. He picked up a Fire Tablet from Amazon a few days ago and he is the only one who will be using that.

I have an older Surface 3 tablet that I dearly love and use it every day. It has Windows 10 Pro on it and works just like regular Windows. I've had it for several years. I know Winfrey has one and uses it to play Big Fish games on. I only use Android phones, so I'm quite familiar with them. Pretty much had to teach myself.

Not to get into a discussion about tablets since this thread is about Windows 11, but is a tablet kind of like a portable computer that doesn't need to be plugged in?

Do you hook it up through your Wi-Fi?

With the modem I had before I did not have Wi-Fi but I believe I have it now. I don't think my computer is capable of using it though.

Yes, I have mine connected to the WiFi. I can use it plugged in too. I have to charge it every couple of days. If your computer doesn't have a WiFi adapter, it won't be able to connect to WiFi. It would have been something you had them install when it was built. You can get small USB WiFi adapters if you ever want to connect to your WiFi.

I'm wondering if my tablet will be able to run Windows 11. Haven't seen anything about the spec requirements. But since it's already running Windows 10 Pro, I hope so.

Thank you. I had an adapter for my Win 7 though I'm not sure where it is now. I didn't use it and couldn't have as the modem I had then did not have Wi-Fi. I don't really see a purpose for me to connect my computer through Wi-Fi.

I have no choice as my router has to be where the service comes in the house from a device on my roof. So it's two rooms away!

Thanks Marian for the news and link.
I will wait until Windows 10 runs out, and yes, I would not be surprised if Windows 10 goes beyond 2025, they will get a lot of pressure to extend the End of Life date, that is, if they don't want people switching to Mac.

You can go to this MS Link and scroll way down to the bottom and download the file that will test your current machine to see if it will be compatible with W11

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-11

PS: At the bottom of the page, they also show the Minimum requirements

Drac, I had a really long cable going through 2 rooms to my Windows 7 computer and really long phone lines when I had dial up on my Win 98 and Win XP.

Thanks Starcom.

I hope they don't try to force this "upgrade" onto us through the updates like they tried to do with Win 7.

I think they should time support from the last major upgrade they did to Windows 10. oldbroad, I would need to have cables running across where we walk and the would definitely NOT work!

From what I am reading you’re going to need a pretty high end computer system TMP turned on. (A security thing). Not happy about this!

Just ran the test.. my laptop will run Windows 11.... still not happy..lol.... Unless it will work better with games ;-)

Mine went across where we walk. I still have the cable there to my Win 7. Fortunately, not the phone lines. The cats really used to make a mess of those when they would do their crazy runs through the house. And my mom was not allowed to walk in that area.

Not sure what you mean by time support?

She means "time support" in the sense of how long Microsoft should continue to support Windows 10.

Just got home from doing a tour down at Longmeadow for a group of challenged kids. Love those tours! And yes, that's what I meant - they should provide 10 years of support from that last major update. Of course, they won't. If I had cables running across where we walk, there would have been more than one broken hip from tripping and falling! And we can't avoid walking into the kitchen and the living room! Besides a bunch of cables running across the living room floor would look awful in my opinion!

So, your opinion, 10 years from the May 2021 update (I think that's the last one). That would be nice! I just noticed yesterday that update is ready for install in my computer. I don't have to do it, do I?

Yup, that's why mom was not allowed there. It's across the kitchen near the back door to the basement and outside and then into my bedroom but behind stuff in my bedroom. A lot of the phone lines were mostly under the kitchen table before crossing that area.

What, the May update? Maybe... some of these updates are necessary to continue receiving security updates.

Too much work for me to pick up cables every time I vacuum or mop the kitchen floor!

No problem for me Drac. I don't vacuum or mop anymore .

LOL! Problem solved! If I didn't vacuum, I'd be knee deep in cat and dog hair!

These seem to be some pretty puny requirements.

CPU: 1-GHz or faster with 2 or more cores on a 64-bit processor.
4GB of RAM
64GB of storage
UEFI BIOS with Secure Boot
TPM 2.0
9-inch or larger screen with 720p resolution
Internet connectivity and an MS account. No offline installs.
GPU compatible with DirectX 12

Hardware heads up. It looks like Windows 11 is around the corner, and will require a TPM module That’s
short for Trusted Platform Module. Its a chip you add to your machine, or mabe a BIOS setup for newer CPU’s. It comes in two versionss, 1.3 and 2.0. You’ll need the 2.0. These things have shot up in price on Amazon lately, so I don’t know if its best to get one now or wait for things to settle out.

I’ll keep you posted as I learn more.

Albert

Now I am even more disgusted with this, but thank you for the information, Albert!

That's putting it mildly, Marian.

It does appear that Microsoft is backpedaling on the TPM requirement. It seems there was quite a bit of howling from people with high end computers not passing the Windows 11 test.

https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/microsoft-explains-windows-11-tpm-requirement/

How do you know if your computer has it or not?

Good question which I don't know the answer to yet, oldbroad.

I don’t know what to tell folks, beyond hit Windows Key-R (both together for Run), then type in “tpm.msc” (without the quotes) and see what happens. On my desktop with 6’th gen I5-6600 I get TPM module can’t be configured (its not there), but i have a slot for it on my trusty ASUS Prime Z270A motherboard. The laptop I was worried about. Its an 8’th gen I5-8520, and it tells me TPM is ready to be enabled! So I need hardware for my old desktop, but my laptop is ready to go.

Albert

We just tried that on our 1-year-old Windows 10 computer and it tells us that the TPM module can't be configured (because it's not there). My son will have to take a look at the motherboard and see if there is a slot for it.

Thanks Albert!

Mine says this:

Compatible Trusted Platform Module (TPM) cannot be found on this computer. Verify that this computer has a 1.2 TPM or later and it is turned on in the BIOS.

That link that Drac posted also says this (in case you didn't notice it):

"Microsoft also further clarified the minimum CPU requirements for Windows 11, hinting that the need for newer processors is still being considered. As of now, anything older than 8th-gen Intel and AMD Ryzen 2000 aren’t supported. However, Microsoft says it will continue testing devices using these processors through Windows Insider builds, and says it wants Windows Insiders to be able to install Windows 11 on 7th-gen processors “to give us more data about performance and security.” Clearly, these requirements are still in flux, and we’ll have to see what Microsoft ends up deciding."

There are rumours out there that MS will remove the TPM requirement on the newest Beta 11 so more people can test it and give them Feedback, but also a rumour that they will put the TPM requirement back with the official version. So the TPM thingy is in the air.

If you want to see if your Computer or Laptop or Tablet, etc. has TPM use this tip:

Type tpm.msc in the search box and then press the Enter key.
There will be a delay of a few seconds before a "TPM Management" window appears.
The "Status" section will tell you if TPM is ready for use.
The "TPM Manufacturer Information" section will tell you which version is present.

I found out my punny laptop has TPM ready, whoopie

I have so many older people who are quite happy running their older computers with Windows 10 for email and a little gaming. These people are all going to be wiped out.

Well, I bought this system figuring this would be the last one I ever bought. So much for that!

I never really bought into that. There was not enough money to be made by having one final operating system. I just *knew* that Microsoft would come up with something else. That is one of the reasons why I did not rush to get Windows 10 and waited years before getting a computer with that OS on it.

Yeah, there is always something and I hope it helps people like eCollege PC builders. My system is less than 2 years old as you may remember and since I am not much into "upgrading" I will probably get a new system with Windows 11 right around the time they decide to announce Windows 12.

Sounds right to me, oldbroad!

For me, the monopoly of Microsoft Windows Systems has always been a bad thing.

The advantages they offer with one hand are taken away with the other !!

I'm with Marian that I never believe that an Operating system will last forever. As for people with Windows 10, again, not to worry, you still have another 4 years and 4 months usage before worrying and maybe the pressure might force MS to extend the date if at the very least an additional 6 months.

If you think you are angry with MS and want to switch to MACs, think again, the Majority of Mac machines DO Not have a better life span, depending on the machine you can look at a life span varying from as low as 3 years to maybe a Max of 10 years.

Exactly, Starcom. Three is the average that Mac OS systems are supported. I know people who have been through it multiple times and are forced to get new computers.

I wouldn't have such a problem with an upgrade to Windows if they weren't going to take millions of perfectly good computers off line. They struggled mightily to get people to switch to Windows 10 and now it feels like they are abandoning us to the wolves. Well, maybe not the wolves, but you know what I mean!

OK, I just bought a TPM module to put in, about $76 at Newegg. It looks pretty straight forward, I’ll keep y’all posted.

Albert

What kind of motherboard header do you need for the one you got? I'm seeing 2 x 7's and other interfaces. I'm looking and even on my high end ASUS motherboard, I'm just seeing anything.

I'm already getting tired of the notifications .

OK, my ASUS motherboard manual says the TPM module is 14 X 1, but the -TPM drawing looks like 7 X 2.. One pin looks blanked out to key the connector. What I got was a Super Micro AOM-TPM-9670V-S. I think this is an older version of TPM, and has a 2 X 5 connector. Browsing Amazon. I think I’ve also seen modules with 2 X 9 connectors.

Bottom line is this TPM stuff isn’t standard computer stuff, like replacing a component. Also note that modules come in vertical and horizontal orientations. I’m not sure if it matters much, as long as it fits.

Microsoft better think about this. If you can’t get the hardware to run Win 11, you CAN’T run Win 11. And I don’t think Microsoft is known for their hardware prowess.

It looks like I have little choice but to wait for TPM modules and information to become more available.

I think this topic may be here a while.

Albert

Exactly what I found when I was researching. This is not easy to just plug in to a spare slot and be good to go. I got it on sale, but this is a $400 motherboard and I'm NOT seeing a header for anything like this. Sounds like wonderful stuff, but if those of us in the unwashed masses don't have it or can't get it, what the heck do they think is going to happen?

What is going to happen to me is to just say to heck with the whole thing. Next year it will be forty years since I got my first computer (!) and I am at the point where I don't need or want to upgrade anymore. My son will keep his computer up to date for games, internet, and work, but I don't need to keep doing this. I will be very happy to use my Windows 7 or Windows XP computer offline - I have enough good games to run on those until the end of my days. I think it will actually be a relief not to have to keep messing with all this stuff and being at Microsoft's beck and call, not to mention being less expensive.

So that's what is going to happen to one of the people from the unwashed masses.

I may be right there with you, Marian. I'm pretty fed up with this - especially for all my elderly folks who really enjoy their nice low end computers.

Marian, we got our first IBM desktop PC for a research project we were doing back in 1983! One floppy drive, and it cost about $10,000.

It had a dial-up modem that I linked to Simon Fraser University for my data analysis, and it took hours to run the stats. We'd go out for dinner and the pages would still be pumping out of the printer when we got back hours later Of course, that was in the DOS days, so one teensy mistake and the whole thing had to be done again.

God, that was a long time ago!

I might be "elderly" but my Win10 computer is most certainly not !!

But will Microsoft give a hoot ??

I think that when Windows 10 is not supported any longer I will buy a CHEAP laptop for the internet and play on my Razer and desktop

I'm gonna hate it, but if they won't support lower end computers, that's probably the way I'm going to go too.

We purchased an Apple II+ with a whopping 48K of memory in 1982 for three thousand dollars. I was dead set against this purchase, and told my then-husband at the time that *I* would certainly never be using it. A month or two later I stumbled across the original Wizardry in a store and purchased it out of curiosity. I was pregnant at the time and got fairly hooked on it in the evenings and would sometimes play it in the middle of the night when I was having trouble sleeping. (Maybe that is why my son is a diehard gamer - could be some mysterious osmosis occurred!).

Anyway, back on topic - I am glad to hear that you guys understand my feelings about this Windows 11 stuff. Thirty years ago it might have all sounded interesting and even fun (?), but not anymore.

Staying off topic for a moment - Marian, what was the computer purchased for and did you ex ever get to use it again after you discovered gaming?

The computer was ostensibly purchased to help keep track of accounts, expenses, etc. for a couple of family businesses.

And my ex did not ever use the computer much after that, although in my own defense it was partly because he was nearly always working. Truth is, though, he unwittingly created a monster when he opened up the door to my playing computer games.

And so a monster was born - accidentally!

I like Leo Notenboom because he talks computers in normal English that anyone can understand. His take on Windows 11 at this time, "... uh, no."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-HYGm6loqM

Thanks for the link, Drac. Good info!

Yes !! I particulary liked his insistence that you don't go for Win11 !!

Thanks Drac.

For now, Mad... just for now. My inclination right now is never if they change the hardware requirements.

OK, it looks like the correct 2.0 TPM modules are becoming in stock again at reasonable prices. I got an ASUS module with the right specs and connector on the way for $27 and shipping, so we’ll know something it looks like in a couple of weeks. Once more into the breach!

Albert

What is the header like on your motherboard? Mine is an ASUS motherboard.

Well Draclvr, It looks like the 2.0 spec TPM modules (what you need for Windows) uses a 7X2 connector. I couldn’t find a drawing of it outside of my ASUS Prime Z270A manual. Not even Wikipedia has this info. I think the first module I bought was 1.2 or 1.3 version TPM, and had a 2X5 connector. This should be standaradized hardware, or we’re screwed. My best advise is look in your motherboard manual.

Albert

I have SCOURED my MB manual! Haven't opened up my case yet, but that will be next. I have a new video card which I need to install anyway. If even my high end Asus ROG STRIX Z490-F doesn't have a header, we are indeed screwed.

My thing is what about all the 99.9% of people who CAN'T open up their case and figure out what headers are available on their motherboards. This is so really, really bad. I truly think Microsoft is going to shoot themselves in the foot if they carry through with this.

This all sounds pretty disheartening 👎

I agree, Mad.

I can only begin to imagine what Jenny's comments on all of this would have been...

Marian, I have to say I have wondered and imagined what her comments would be every time I post!

Me too, Drac! But this thread I think about in particular because Jenny had a great distaste for Windows 10, so I can only begin to imagine what sort of comments from her might have been engendered by this thread about Windows 11. I know that I for one would have really enjoyed reading them.

I know - I'm surprised we can't hear her from the great beyond!!

I too, would love to hear Jenny's comments right now!

VICTORY! Installation of a TPM module is a two step process.

First is the physical installation. Some commitee is involved in the specification for these things, so I believe they should all be the same. Mine had a 2X7 connector, with one pin missing for a keyed connection so it only goes in one way. This was a bit of a pain as there were no guides on my motherboard and I just had to eyeball it.

I booted up and did the tpm.msc thing., and got a module not found.
Step two is go into BIOS setup and enable the module. In my case it was go to advanced setup, then to PCH-FW Cofiguration, then PTT configuration. Change TPM configuration from dTPM to PTT. Note that I also have the BIOS manual for my motherboard or I would probably never have figured this out. Also note that ASUS is offering BIOS updates to implement this change if you don’t want to. If they have an update for your motherboard, its a safe bet you have the connector for the module. I have no ideas for other motherboard vendors. Then I did the tpm.msc, and Yes! It shows up and looks like t will do its security stuff under Windows 10.

Albert

Excellent! So, that helps out you and "maybe" me. But it sure doesn't do anything for millions of other people who can't do this or don't have a motherboard header.

Congrats on your victory Albert! I understood Not One Word of it!

Well, if those are the instructions to get the TPM module seated and working, all I can say is a lot of people's eyes are going to glaze over while reading them. This is not to say that those aren't good instructions, because they are - but I don't know that many people that would be able or willing to attempt all of this on their own, for starters. What on earth is Microsoft thinking.

Glad you got it working though, Albert - and good for you!

My son has an ASUS motherboard, too, so thank you for the information about the motherboard updates that ASUS will be offering. No clue as to whether his motherboard will take a TPM module.

Same with my ASUS motherboard, Marian. I'm just so angry about all this. I'm all about security upgrades, but when you disconnect millions of people from the internet because of a hardware requirement? I think I'm outta here with that one. I really think they are shooting themselves in the foot for the rank and file of computer users out there.

Again not to sound too repetitive, what is the rush to do all this when Microsoft is ending support for Windows 10 on October 14th, 2025[/b] meaning you still a whole [b]4 Years and 2 months with Windows 10 fully protected, by then most of us will need new laptops/desktops. So enjoy your Windows 10 and tell MS to bugger off with their W11.

On Oct 14th 2025 Microsoft will get that message from me just the same, Starcom.

[ The message you put so adroitly ]

I love your message, Starcom! I'm in absolutely NO rush to worry about any of this until I have to. I'd just like to know and learn as much about it as possible so I'm prepared - not so much for myself, but for my friends whose computers I work on.

Thanks Mad and Draclvr for the encouraging responses, Draclvr re: your friends you maintain their computers, YOU Are Their Computer Goddess, so just CUFF them behind the Ears and tell them not to worry, when Oct 2025 arrives you will take care of them.

Yeah, but how am I going to do that if Microsoft won't let them keep their computers?! They are all clueless, so I'm sure not going to say anything!

Yes but Draclvr, I am 110% positive you will figure something out WAY before that happens.

This has been a fascinating and informative thread. Thanks all

Drop in any old time, flotsam!

The more input the better, I say, flotsam!

Microsoft is supposed to have a tool to evaluate your machine for upgrade to Win11. Its not available right now, possibly due to re-evaluating the requirements. Threads like this may be part of the reason behind that.

In the mean time, there are third party tools to get an idea. I downloaded and ran whynotwin11.exe . You can get it multiple places, so I didn’t post a link. Some my be bogus, I don’t know.

Here are the results on my two machines:

Lapttop- Ready to go! It has an 8’th gen I5-8250 CPU

Desktop- CPU not on current approved list. Its a 6’th gen I5-6600, and current specs do call for an 8’th gen CPU. Everything else was OK. It might work, it might not.This could be a biggie, as 8’th gen CPU’s do have some new security stuff built in, including the TPM stuff (which is why I think my laptop was OK). The TPM module I put in is useless if this holds. According to CPU-Z, my motherboard was made 7-23-2017. Its only four years old! Given the state of CPU’s these days, as far as Ghz goes, I had really hoped to get a lot more out of it.

Albert

When I rebuilt this desktop a year ago, I put in a 10th Gen CPU, so I'm good there. However, even if I'm good, I'm furious about all the people with good useable computers who won't be good.

Intel has re-released their Windows 11 health check app to check for Windows 11 upgrade compatibilty. I ran it on my desktop, and nope, no go. The TPM stuff was OK (Iinstalled a TPM module) but it confirms you need an 8th gen Intel CPU or above to upgrade. AMD CPU’s appear to have to be about as fairly recent. Oh well, we’ve still got about 4 years of Win10 support. Note that 8th gen Intel CPU's have the TPM stuff built in, along with some extra security stuff. I'm beginning to think security is the name of the game with this version of Windows.

Albert

I agree, Albert. Security is definitely what Windows 11 is all about. I'm find with that, but what about the folks who just need a decent computer to do their email and play a few casual games? Guess they are just not important any more.

And what about businesses that run loads of staff computers ?? There are bound to be some who won't be able to afford the change ??

Yes, for sure... office computers too. Although businesses in particular should welcome the added security, how many will be able to afford brand new computers for the entire business? If one were cynical, one would have to wonder if this isn't a collaboration between Microsoft and computer manufacturers!

I've always thought that.

I see in my "Settings" today that I have a note that says:

"This PC doesn't currently meet all the system requirements for Windows 11. Get PC Health Check
Get the details and see if there are things you can do in the PC Health Check app"

I'm just commenting. I knew my system was not ready for Windows 11. I hope they are not going to be bugging us for the next 4 years with this like they did with Windows 10 when they tried to forcibly download it to people's computers (at least it seemed that's what they tried to do).

Mine says the same, oldbroad. From what I understand, they are not going to be bugging us with popups etc. But we shall see.

I hadn't read that one, Marian, but I've read a couple of other pieces that pretty much say the same thing. I like this one though because it says exactly what I think... WHY? What is the point?

Oh, how I wish Jenny was here! Can you imagine!

Indeed, what I wouldn't give to hear Jenny's comments about this!

Me too !!!!

Thanks for the link Marian.

Question. Someday comes where I don't have an internet connection for some reason. Let's say I'm living in a garage and can't get or can't afford internet but I still have my computer and I have my DRM free GOG library of games on discs or an external drive or something. If I have Windows 11, I won't be able to play them because I don't have an internet connection?

Yes, you can play them as long as you don't have them set to require the GOG client to run.

Drac, that article Marian linked to says that Windows 11 requires an internet and a Microsoft account.

"If you're using Windows 11 Home, you must have both an Internet connection and a Microsoft account to run Windows 11 at all. No, Internet, no Microsoft account, no Windows 11. You can't set up a local user account or use your PC at all."

I see GOG is already showing Windows 11 compatibility in at least one game.

Yes, I know all that. But if you have your already downloaded games on your computer and they are set to not need the GOG client to run, it's no different than running a game from a disk that doesn't need an internet connection.

I hope you're right, not that I hope to ever be in that position, but that's not how I'm reading it.

If you don't need internet to play your games, I'm not sure where the question is?

Oldbroad, I think the quote is referring to the fact that you have to have the internet in order to install Windows 11. With Windows 10, you could install it without having an internet connection.

Okay Marian. That is something I did not know. I think they should adjust their wording then though. Where it says you cannot use your PC at all ?? I mean if I have an internet connection and download Windows 11 but then no longer have an internet connection, this sounds like the computer might as well go in the garbage then.

Not at all... it's worded to say you can use it off line quite nicely. You just can't install 11 without an internet connection and a Microsoft account.

I don't see that but I'll let it go since I don't see that scenario happening anyway.

Thanks for the link Marian, very interesting.

oldbroad, take the Wise words from Marian and Draclvr when they say You Don't need the Internet to Run the Operating system, as they said, You Need it to Install Windows 11 and of Course you would need the Internet to install Security upgrades, etc. BUT as Draclvr said: "You will Not need the Internet to play games that you have already saved to your Hard Drive or DVDs or External Hard Drive, etc. So again, do not worry about the Internet Thingy Magingy.

Regardless of whether they're right or not Starcom, the article clearly says (TO ME): "you must have both an Internet connection and a Microsoft account to run Windows 11 at all"

oldbroad, maybe this will help. It's from Ed Bott who has been writing about Windows operating systems for 25 years.

I take that to mean to get it running, as in the initial download and installation.

I think this is a question of semantics and just poorly worded, but I do understand why you would read that and think otherwise.

Thanks Drac and Marian. I don't read it the way you all are and think the wording should be changed if what you're saying is correct, but that is why I post some things and why I get in arguments with my brother. I like to present and to be presented with different interpretations and views. Sometimes I learn something; sometimes I don't. Sometimes the other person learns something; sometimes they don't.

And Drac, I read that before. To me, that person is saying something quite different from the one Marian linked to.

oldbroad, whether the wording is correct or not, even if MS states that you need an Internet connection to run Win 11, do you think people will go for that, it would not be long before people protest and keep their unprotected Win 10 or Switch to Mac or Linux. So I doubt MS would be that Stupid to Force people to stay connected to the Internet to Run their Win 11. So We all have 4 years of using Win 10 to let MS fix a possible Major Boo Boo if that is the case.

I can totally go along with what you're saying there Starcom!