Has anyone else watched this HBO series? I just stumbled on it recently and I really enjoyed it. The series stars Kate Winslet and it reminded me of Broadchurch.

We watched it and loved it! Every Sunday night, JKEerie and I couldn't wait to discuss it when it was over at Mystery Manor! I'm so sad, it's only a one season series.

We tried the first episode and couldn't really get into it, but perhaps we'll try another look...

We struggle to find anything particularly engrossing on TV these days, the most recent "must watch" (apart from Coronation Street) probably being Unforgotten, with our regular undemanding fallback being Blue Bloods (currently part way through season 6, so plenty left)

We loved the Fargo series on FX. It was so "off the wall" and intriguing and every season was a new story with new characters! But there are so many commercials on FX, we stopped watching it.

We also loved the Fargo series of series, but have yet to try the latest one: a useful reminder.

We recorded the episodes and were then able to fast forward through the adverts!

That's what we started doing too. It was just too painful otherwise!

Yes. I watch very little "live" TV these days - apart from BBC programmes - as there are no adverts

I record nearly everything, so I can watch what I want when it suits me, AND I can FF through any adverts

Perfect !!

EDIT :

I missed out on Mare of Easttown because it clashed with my other programmes so I'm hoping it will be repeated.
[Or maybe it's available "On Demand". I must check. because I think Kate Winslet is an excellent actress :)]

We liked Mare a lot. Watched it each week and then binge watched the first 6 leading into the live watching of the final episode.
I do hope they stop at this season. Some things are perfectly fine the way they are and don't need anything more.

I have to kind of agree with you flotsam!

We only stream these days so I tend to miss out on good shows until they're available on one of our three services. I'll keep my eye out for this one.

Mare only streamed down here so (given we subscribed to the service) we lucked out in terms of no ads etc
Many shows on the streaming services here are deliberately accessible at the same time as they are broadcast in the relevant home market. Which means we get to watch and then engage with the broader discussion should we wish to.

I liked Unforgotten a lot Lex. Have you watched Collateral? Nicola Walker is in that, along with the very excellent 'Sally Sparrow'. The Night Of, The LIttle Dummer Girl and Spooks (for something more lengthy and also featuring Nicola Walker) might possibly 'engross' you??

Didn't know about Collateral which looks/sounds promising: we now have Netflix as part of a Sky deal, but have only just dipped into it to watch an interesting three part documentary Sophie, a murder in Cork (prompted by the rather less satisfactory and long-winded version Murder at the Cottage on Sky). Collateral is now lined up to follow, so thanks for that.

Going back a few years, I was really hooked on The Sarah Connor Chronicles (an excellent serialised reworking of part of The Terminator saga), Justified, Dexter, and the pretty extreme series Hannibal (having thoroughly enjoyed all of the books and films) - my choices of escapist viewing no doubt reveal deep character flaws....!

But those deep character flaws as so much FUN! Have you heard they are doing a sequel to Dexter?

I watched every series of "Unforgotten". And thought each was excellent

I have seen them all too now. I started watching it due to your recommendation. My son and I thought they were all very good!

Great !!

Hi all,
I watched Mare of Easttown and really liked it. Also watched all the Episodes of the Unforgotten, another great series.
Now I am anxious to watch Season 11 of Vera, there will be 2 episodes of Vera in the Fall of 2021 and 4 more Episodes of Vera in early 2022, I just love that series, it is on my list to re-watch all 11 Seasons in the near future.

I did enjoy all those series you mentioned Lex. The Dexter end was a dud so perhaps a sequel will fix it?? And whch I didn't know they were doing so many thanks Draclvr.
Wasn't aware of Sophie so will check it out.
And that will certainly be a binge watch to rival many Starcom

Have any of you watched the recent harrowing but excellent Time from Jimmy McGovern featuring Sean Bean and Stephen Graham giving the performances of their lives?

And how about Line of Duty?

Line of Duty yes (and very good indeed) but haven't been able to find Time down here (or at least not on a service I have). It has been discussed in glowing terms by some of the podcasts I listen too, albeit they say its confronting to watch. But Jimmy McGovern has often been unflinching in his material.
And speaking of which, who can forget Cracker? Ran out of puff a little with the "specials" but the first few series were compelling.

I watched a six-part British series on Netflix called River which also starred Nicola Walker. It was awfully good and I recommend it. It's a police procedural.

I agree Marian; I had forgotten that one (so much TV!!)

We enjoyed River, but the best police series for us in recent times was Cardinal, and we were also taken with a couple of Scandi-noir offerings (despite subtitles) The Bridge, and more recently Darkness: Those Who Kill and a follow up Blinded: Those Who Kill also The Investigation (about the death of Kim Wall).

On a different theme, there was obviously Homeland, which led us to try the rather glossy but quite fun Criminal Minds (again featuring the excellent Mandy Patinkin).

PS Now that it has been hi-jacked should this thread perhaps be retitled...

I must be the only person on Earth who thinks the Dexter ending was the right one. There was no way Dexter could become a Real Boy and be able to live happily ever after after the life he'd led.

River was great, I thought. I don't think we've seen any mention of Time here, but I'll have a closer look.

Mare is on Amazon, so I've added it to our Watch list.

There are also some Really really good Lighter side Crime/Detective/mysteries that are very enjoyable to watch if One wants a break from Violent type programs:

Midsomer Murders now on Series or Season 22
Father Brown waiting for Season 9
Death in Paradise waiting for Season 11
Grantchester waiting for Season 6 (loved the reference to Elvis Presly, this series start in the 1950s and up)

Another one a bit more serious: Harrow 3 seasons so far
Another one, very very serious: Silent Witness, waiting for Season 24

Thanks Starcom: my wife Linda is very keen on Midsomer Murders, and I like the way it is now almost a spoof of itself, as well as attracting some well-known actors to participate.

I will have to try Harrow and perhaps Father Brown, not being familiar with either (although I read and enjoyed most or all of the Father Brown books many years ago).

I agree hagatha but it needed a way better ending (see Braeking Bad for the right one!)
Cardinal was good Lex, and if you like those scandi noir, maybe check out Trapped or Bordertown, neither quite as full on as Those Who Kill.
Hidden from BBC Wales is closer to the last, and I also liked hearing the language.
Starcom, I was shocked by the end of the last Silent Witness. I am suprised it still manages to surprise all these seasons later.

There is a Dexter sequel coming out -- a miniseries, I think. Michael C. Hall will be reprising the role.

The ending to Breaking Bad was perfect.

To digress slightly, I have often wondered whether TV creators have a beginning and an end from the start, and they pad out the middle depending on whether it is 1 or 5 seasons, or soemthing esle?
In other words, did Vince GIlligan know from day 1 that it would end that way? No doubt things along the way make a difference (the Jessie arc for instance) but was that how he imagined it ending? Or did he have an idea about a meth cooking science teacher with cancer and was as interested in me to see where that might go?

As audiences know, bad things can happens when the story's overall arc isn't plotted out beforehand (ahem....Lost....). My guess is that the ending to Breaking Bad was plotted out long before the last season started. The writing is so solid and assured, all the way through.

We started watching Mare. The first episode almost lost us, it was so slow. It's picked up a bit in the second and third episodes. There's a little too much melodrama, but we'll keep watching.

On flotsam's suggestion I am going to try the Welsh noir: no doubt made at least partly as a result of pressure (and therefore more readily available budget) to produce dramas in the native language although now available in English.

Found Hinterland on Netflix and enjoyed the first episode, with Hidden geared up to follow on Sky, and after that his scandi suggestions Trapped on Amazon and Bordertown on Netflix...

Hinterland is really good. I had hoped there would be more, but it looks like it's finished for good.

We ultimately enjoyed Mare, and Kate Winslet's performance is wonderful.

For those of you who haven't seen the Narcos series (there are two of them) on Netflix, they really are superb productions.

Is there an echo here?

Will have a look at Narcos

Hope you enjoy them!

Discovered we had already seen (and enjoyed) Collateral and Hidden some years ago but not remembered the titles, and have been working our way through The Commander (including Hugh Bonneville getting his kit off with Amanda Burton...!) which we had missed when it came out and is possibly more suited to a modern audience

I like to watch TV series cause I'm curious as to how they will end it. Didn't care for how they ended Good Wife but it made sense. Liked how they ended Six Feet Under and Desperate Housewives.

The Good Wife was excellent for the first few series but then lost its way a bit for us.

We have recently been watching an excellent true crime series The Real ManHunter featuring a retired high ranking UK police officer Colin Sutton taking us through some of his more extreme cases: he comes across really well and the detective work is fascinating: one of his biggest cases featured a monstrous psychopath named Levi Bellfield and is to form the subject of a TV drama later this year featuring Martin Clunes as the detective.

butterflybabe, I also thought Six Feet Under had a wonderful ending. Just perfection.

Some other shows that had finales that nailed it for me were Justified, Sons of Anarchy, The Shield, Supernatural, Buffy (I know, I know, but I'm a huge Buffy fan, nerdishly so), Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, and the Sopranos.

Shows that lost it -- looking at you, in fact, Lost, the X-Files, and much as I hate to say it, GOT.

There is a Netflix series called Imposters that I really enjoyed too. It is well acted and has plenty of plot twists.

Have been able to watch TIme down here in the last few weeks. Very excellent indeed!

SQF, looks like in UK you can currently only purchase Imposters on Amazon Prime - so it must be good!

I really liked Virgin River on Netflix too. Hopefully a new season of Ozark is coming soon.

Ditto on Ozark SQF!

If you haven't seen The Fall, it is definitely worth a look and I see that it is now available on Netflix.

The Fall is wonderful! We watched it when it first came out. Fantastic performance by Gillian Anderson.

Lex I just wanted to give your The Fall suggestion a

Have to agree about The Fall.
Just watched an Icelandic series on Netfix called Katla. Reminiscent of things like Glitch or The Revenants and rather good. Plus I never get tired of seeing Iceland,

We just started Raised With Wolves on HBOMax per the recommendation of both our sons. Sadly, there are no actual wolves. But if you like SciFi, you might like this one.

I am also watching The Chair on Netflix at lunch. Really good show.

I did like Raised By Wolves L4L. Have never heard of The Chair so will check out whether its available down here.

I liked Raised by Wolves too but it was pretty weird. If you like Sci-Fi you might want to give Altered Carbon on Netflix a shot.

I enjoyed the Altered Carbon books but the TV adaptation did not do anything for me and I see that Neflix appear to have cancelled after two seasons.

For me the TV sci-fi bar was set very high by Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles which I see is on Amazon Prime (but probably cheaper to buy on DVD if you still have a player)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po9BJCjjxIo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0fXTDI1egY

Space Quest, son recommended Altered Carbon too, but told me he thought I'd enjoy it more if I binged it.

I started watching Barbarians today for my "lunch" watch. I tend to only watch while I eat lunch so it can take me a bit to get through a series.

I agree Lex, SCC was rather good. I have it on dvd somewhere. I also liked the Tv version of Battlestar Galactica, although it probably went on a bit too long.

Just started watching the new series of Endeavour, now set in the 70s and continuing at the previous high standard, also a documentary about Alexei Novalny https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tv/2021...view-surprisingly-jaunty-account-alexei/

Meanwhile Help awaits... https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tv/2021/09/16/help-review-horror-let-covid-ravage-care-homes/

I, too, thought that the Altered Carbon series of books was excellent and didn't particularly care for the TV production.

Flotsam, I loved Battlestar Galactica. It was filmed around Vancouver and parts of BC. The house at the very beginning of the series is one many people here recognize, and SFU features prominently in the beginning, too.

Any Supernatural fans here? I've watched the entire series and would definitely watch it again someday. It, too, was filmed around Vancouver and BC and it's fun to ID places while watching.

I'm also happily waiting for Season 2 of Witcher.

I might have to try The Witcher now that we have Netflix.

Currently enjoying Martin Clunes in a couple of docudramas about big cases solved by the excellent Colin Sutton (who also features in his own fine series on Sky Crime The Real Manhunter).

I've been watching Frontier (Jason Mamoa)..only a couple episodes left.

I like Supernatural. Watched it while it was current.

Lex, I love The Witcher.

I honestly wasn't sure about Henry Cavill taking on the role of Geralt, but he's just perfect for the part.

I think so too

I couldn't really get into The Witcher, but I might have to give it another try.
Juat finished a new Netflix series by Mike Flanagan (Haunting of Hill House etc) called Midnight Mass. Most of his stuff has a horror bent so factor that into whether it might be for you, but it has that Stephen King world building feel about it and some wonderful exploration of the nature of spirituality. It was let down a bit by the denoument but its not Robinson Crusoe in that regard.

I had enjoyed a couple of the Witcher games which led me to read a book of short stories/episodes, hence my possible interest in the TV series, although it does not look like my usual fare.

Hubby and I just started watching Westworld. Intriguing!

West world's first season was wonderful, the second a bit garbled, I thought, and then we stopped watching, mostly because there's so many other things on our list and also because my spouse has a tendency to fall asleep and lose the plot. But I'll eventually get back to it because the premise and acting are great and I like it enough to want to know what happens next.

Ditto hagatha. I never got to the third but thought the first was excellent.
Watchmen is well worth it if you haven't seen it. Way better than the movie from a while back. Knowledge of what came before adds something as it's a kind of sequel but not necessary.

Another show that we loved is The Expanse. We've watched the first 4 seasons, and the fifth was in our queue, but again, the Spousal Unit tends to fall asleep and lose the plot and I get tired of explaining what happened in the previous episode.

Same here, hagatha! We started watching the final season of Goliath Saturday night about 7:30... didn't take 15 minutes and he was asleep. I was already into it, so just watched the rest of it.

"The Spousal Unit" - great terminology!

In our household, both Spousal Units seem to doze off in front of the same things, so neither of us can tell the other what happened at crucial missed moments...

Shows with complex plotting, like Mr. Robot and Dark and most recently The Wire, became incomprehensible to the Unit once he'd slept through a couple of episodes, and explaining it all was a real stretch.

The Unit is an intellectual, so when he watches TV it's for a break from all that thinking and it tends to lead us to shows that have a lot of things going, "Boom" without much story complexity. Superhero movies are good for that. You can generally sleep through half of it and still understand what's happening.

Hi Lex, I agree with you that Endeavour is a great series and I watched it, I am just disappointed that it has Only 3 Episodes, one waits this long for the series only to have 3 episodes and then to wait for another year. I wonder why they only produce 3 episodes?

Starcom, I suspect that the reasons will be partly restrictions imposed by lockdowns/social distancing during the pandemic and partly an excessively woke (in my view) focus in programme making generally: there is a limit to how much currently acceptable ethnic and other minority content can be injected into a period series such as Endeavour!

Just started watching Police Paris 1900 (on BBC Four, although I think also available on Netflix) with no great expectations, but it is actually rather good!

I just finished a Harry Potter marathon! We saw them all as they were released but I don't think I've watched them since.

I loved those films but I now find that about an hour and a half is my maximum watching time, so we do most films in at least two bites and have so far resisted the boxed set binge approach, but I admire your stamina!

There is a great BBC Scotland series Guilt which we missed first time round but are now watching to link into the second series which has just started https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9644058/

I must see if it is available down here Lex.
There's a new series featuring Nicola Walker that started here last night called Anika. WE will probably wait for a few of the episodes to be available and then give that a try.
Anyone seen it?

We like most things involving Nicola, but I think we tried and abandoned this one a month or two ago: perhaps you will form a more positive view and steer us back to it for another look...

Thanks Lex.

Another good series has just started a new season on BBC - Shetland: worth a look if you have not tried it before, and assuming you can find it somewhere accessible in your location (I am pretty sure it is available on Netflix)

Shetland has a new season? We'll be checking that out for sure. Loved the series so far.

Season 5 kicked off promisingly last night - correction make that season 6.

I just looked and the first three seasons are on Netflix down here so will give it a go

I have watched Unforgotten, Line of Duty, Vera, Shetland, Easttown and many more of the BBC and HBO series when they come out on DVD. I am able to rent them from our local Library. Most of the Libraries in my state are part of a network that allows you to put a DVD on hold and they will send it to my local library for pick up.

It is a great service and at no cost. I have been very lucky to enjoy so many Series from PBS, and BBCA and other networks when they become available on DVD.

Maybe some of you could rent them for free from your local Libraries too.

We only have the first three seasons of Shetlend on Netflix here, but the fourth season should be along by and by, though not necessarily. We had the first three seasons of The Bridge and the fourth season never arrived.

Lex, I don't think we will be going back to Anika after watching the first two. I think your earler decision was correct. A shame, but not everything can work.
Started a Nordic-noir called The Chestnut Man which seems promising after the first two. Its on Netflix here.
I hadn't thought of libraries KS so have no idea what might be available. Thanks for the heads-up.

We had a quick dip into Chestnut Man, but it seemed a bit wooden and I think something more interesting lured us away - perhaps we'll persevere another time!

Last night we tried the first two episodes of season 1 of Grimm and found that unexpectedly entertaining: we hadn't heard of it before but found ourselves watching part of an episode in season 6 while waiting for something else (so it must have been running for a few years). A police procedural with paranormal villains which certainly fits the bill for Halloween and keeps just enough of a straight face to be quite scary in places... Has anyone else tried this one?

Unfortunately, the Isle of Man lacks any kind of coherent library service, which is something we miss.

I don't think I've tried Grimm, though I have it on my list in keeping with my preference for science-fiction and fantasy.

We were re-watching The Wire and enjoying it very much, but then it became apparent that one of us who is not me was sleeping through a lot of it and had no idea what was going on, so it was abandoned. And again, we tried watching the Witcher (second time for me) because we thought lots of fighting and derring-do and loud monsters would keep certain people awake, but it was not to be.

At the moment, I'm just finishing up Season 7 of Buffy and plan to clean up the shows I'm behind on, like Star Trek: Discovery, Waking Dead, and I think Picard has another season available here.

For those of you who haven't watched the Witcher, by the way, it's good. It helps if you've read the books and/or played the games, because the series jumps around time lines and characters and it doesn't hold your hand explaining things. It's been renewed through Season 3, I think, so there's a good deal of watching ahead. Henry Cavill IS Geralt of Rivia. He nailed the role.

I did watch Grimm and I think the early episodes are the pick. There is a lot more reference to the fairy tales I seem to recall. It does get rather silly later on, and not every story arc works, but I watched it through - it was my treadmill watch of choice for a while!
PIcard I didn't know had another season - I will seek it out.

We just started Schitt's Creek. I thought it would be the usual lame Canadian "humour," but it actually pretty funny, and hysterically rude.

And it gets better!

It isn't our usual fare, but it's perfect insofar as the Spousal Unit can nod off and not really lose the plot.

We love those sorts of things in our habitat as well.
Although its interesting the number of times one of us says we don't feel awake enough to watch a movie, and then we manage to watch 4 or 5 episodes of something

Started watching the last season of Goliath on Prime video. It's pretty strange the first two episodes with the second one even leading off with a bizarre show tune performed by the villain. Going to watch the next episode tonight - my spousal unit will also be sleeping.

Goliath has been on my list for a while. It's time for me to leave the comfort of old favourites and move on to something new.

The first two seasons were excellent. The jury is still out on the third one!

Dexter is back tonight in USA and tomorrow in UK

On a less extreme note we have just started watching the new series Dalgleish, which looks quite promising (although Roy Marsden in that role is a hard act to follow).

We can't wait for Dexter, Lex!

Is anyone here watching the new show Ghosts? You can see info here.
I'm absolutely loving it! Finally a show with laughs that are original!

Ana

Hi BrownEyedTiger, my wife and I watch Ghosts and we absolutely LOVE it.

We're looking forward to seeing what Dexter gets up to in his next season. That is IF the Spousal Unit can stay awake. We're barely getting through an episode of Schitt's Creek a night.

Incidentally, Dexter's apartment went up for a sale a year ago or so. I had found it on Google maps. I was shocked at how low the price was. Anywhere in Canada a waterfront apartment, even a low-rise one-bedroom, would have sold for millions!

Now that Buffy has thwarted the First Evil for good and the Scoobies have gone off to live their lives, I've been watching a Danish noir murder mystery on Netflix, called The Chestnut Man. Very dark. Quite frightening at times, too. It's only 6 episodes, so it's a quick watch. It's based on a series of novels so I'm guessing there will be more seasons. Quite good, I thought.

EDIT: Flotsam, I see you also watched The Chestnut Man and weren't too keen on it. I've actually enjoyed it.

Starcom, I'm glad you are enjoying it too! It's such a refreshing change and the "ghosts" are so perfectly cast!

I enjoyed Chestnut Man hagatha but it will never rival Buffy
I have never even heard of ghosts. I see there are two seasons available here so will check it out.
Having just checked, the new Dexter is on a service here we don't subscribe to, and we already have too many of those so looks like we will have to wait

Edit: OK, looks like there was an earlier British version from a couple of years ago that has now been 'developed for American television' as they say. Given the new one is on that same service we don't have I will check out the other one anyway.

People always look at me strangely when I say I love BTVS, but there's so much humour and truth in that series, all couched in High School drama and the world beyond. Plus sexy vampires.

So we finally reached the end of Season 1 of Schitt's Creek, and had quite a laugh. If I can keep the Spousal unit awake for a while after dinner we'll watch more.

Agreed hagatha. We are prone to watching our favourite episodes just for fun - ones like Tabula Rasa, Hush and of course Once More With Feeling - usually when one or other of our daughters are around.
Speaking of sexy vampires, the girls still have a photo of themselves with Spike, one arm draped around each of them, taken at a Buffy convention we went to in Melbourne about 20 years ago. They queued for about an hour to have it taken.

I was always a Spuffy fan rather than a Bangel fan. Dude was awesome by the end.

Hush is an amazing piece of television. Another of my favourites is The Body.

The Body is indeed excellent

Like Game Of Thrones, Buffy The Vampire Slayer was something I expected to like but never got beyond one episode (possibly at least partly because my wife could not suspend her disbelief sufficiently for dragons or vampires, although she seems to manage with Grimm and had previously enjoyed the film The Lost Boys - go figure... ). Perhaps I will try those specific shows you mention.

Lex, Buffy started out as a clever teen high school dramedy with vampires, but by the second season the underlying darkness of the themes started to play out, along with the humour. Buffy is long-form storytelling, so I don't know if individual episodes would give you a true picture. It's worth a try, though.

Many of my favourite shows started out a bit cliche and improved over time. I would put Supernatural in that category. The first season is just basically monster-of-the-week with a couple of good-looking guys and a cool car. Then it changed to a more long-form storytelling and picked up a lot of steam.

I often wonder how Angel would have played out if it had been given another couple of years to continue the story lines that had developed. I enjoyed it, too, even with the truncated ending, which, under the circumstances, was genius.

Ditto on Angel hagatha and given what you said about Supernatural I might have to give it another go. I never got out of that first season largely because of exactly how you describe it.

Before leaving Buffy, do we all agree the season with the Initiative should be reduced to a short "here are the things you need to know to move on" episode and then never be spoken of again

I wasn't keen on Season 4, but I don't hate it completely. There was that wonderful Halloween episode where lephoriphobic Anya wears a rabbit suit and saves the day, and the evil demon turns out to be three inches tall. And of course there are the wonderfully acted episodes relating to Willow, Oz and Tara.

But yes, Season 4 is my least favourite.

Supernatural was a guilty pleasure for a while, and then I decided that I really liked it as the characters grew. Jensen Ackles turned out to be a pretty decent actor, Misha Collins was absolutely wonderful as Castiel, and Jared Padalecki had a sensitive yet manly jaw throughout the series. In 15 seasons there was some fluff and some truly bad episodes, but by and large they managed to keep it pretty fresh.

Changing topic, hagatha, did you try Grimm? That has now become a regular filler for us.

I haven' tried Grimm yet, but I'm thinking I should. It's probably right up my alley.

Right now I'm watching my regular shows -- Season 10 of The walking Dead, which is the best season they've made for years, and then I'm off to finish season 3 of Star Trek: Discovery, and then Season 2 of Witcher arrives, and Season 9 of Dexter has just started and is streaming on Crave TV, so my dance card is pretty full. So many games, so many good shows, so little time...

I gave up on TWD a few seasons ago; do you reckon I can jump straight back into season 10?

No, far too much has happened in the interim.

I watched and enjoyed a couple of episodes (or perhaps it was films on the same theme) but that was enough zombies for me: I preferred the wider post-apocalyptic themes of the John Wyndham books and loved the original TV series of Survivors (which sadly now looks very dated).

It's been a long time since I read Wyndham.

I see that Angel is now on Amazon Prime, so I'm going to blast through it while I alternate with 12 Monkeys, which has pretty good reviews. We watched the first three episodes a few months ago, but the SU kept falling asleep and the premise is too complicated to explain every time.