Boomers, hi,

OK, so today I'm prolific. I don't think I've started a new topic in like a year, and then I manage to produce two in one day. Go figure

Now... there are two very good reasons I can think of why you might ask for a saved game, so let's get them out of the way straight off:

1. A bug causes the game to consistently crash at a certain point in the game on your machine, and you cannot progress unless someone sends you a saved game from somewhere past that point

2. You're not good at arcade sequences, and you just can't get past a certain sequence that the developer put into what is otherwise a thinking person's game. Prime example: the Still Life spider bot sequence

So... I noticed a lot of people asking for saved games for The Lost Crown, and was curious as to why someone would ask for a saved game just to get by a... cerebral challenge? (in other words, for neither of the reasons posited above)

Wouldn't you, instead of asking for a saved game, just consult a walkthrough to find out what you haven't done yet in order to progress the game? Doesn't asking for a saved game when you don't really need one completely spoil the game for you?

Just a discussion point,
MetzO'Magic

Hi Metzo....I have asked for a saved game twice in my many years of gaming. One was the #$#&% robot puzzle in Still Life and the other was the timed puzzles in Next Life. The robot I really tried for days and the Next Life one was because I despised the game so much I just wanted to finish it.

I try real hard to not need a walkthrough but I'm not too proud to use one if need be, but a save for me would be a real last resort.

EDIT: Make that 3 times...the stupid fox and geese game in Nancy Drew.

Ana

Hi..metzomagic..

Can I ask you a question? Why are you so triggered to ask all these questions about Lost Crown?

There were so many other games previous to this one that was very hard for a "Newbie" as well as the "Pros"

I think there are many reasons...Why people ask for sav games besides the Bug factor....

Maybe some just can't or won't want to do something...Maybe they can't see things very well on a puzzle..

Or maybe some just get confused...But for whatever the reasons...Its mostly cause They Need a Save Game

And Thats ..That

With Lost Crown it's not a matter of a cerebral challenge.
It's trial and error hunting around to find whatever it is you didn't notice and neglected to click on. It's a test of patience and trust (that the problem isn't a bug) rather than a test of puzzling ability.

Hi metzomagic,
It strikes me as rather odd that your example of needing a saved game was the Still Life spider bot sequence. As it turned out for me when I was trying to do it, I found a map (I've forgotten where!) that showed where all the safe spots were so you could move the bot there and rest while you figured out the move to the next safe spot. I had a hard time with the spider as I did not know which way it was facing much of the time (both ends looked alike to me, my eyes not being 20/20) but with those safe spots I had all the time I needed. It still took me several tries, but each time I got a little farther and actually made it to the end. Which made me feel very unbearably smug when I read your comment about the need for a saved game. Can you tell?

Spider bot solution (by Len Green)
http://www.gameboomers.com/wtcheats/pcSs/stilllifelaser.htm

I've used a savegame only twice and both times with good reason. The first was necessary for The Final Curse (The Messenger) - the version I played had a nasty bug towards the end that caused the game to crash. There was no way to avoid that; I even contacted the publisher and they said that all issues of the game had the same problem. It was a technical issue they couldn't fix because it was a budget release of the game, the original developer didn't exist anymore by that time. So the only way to finish the game was to install a savegame that had been made with the original (full price) version of the game.

The second case in which I needed a savegame came up when I played Broken Sword: The Sleeping Dragon. I don't know how many times I tried and failed at the stealth sequence beneath Montfaucon - you know, the one where you had to sneak past the guards three times just in order to set a stupid clock. I couldn't do it, it was impossible; even when I thought, yes, made it, the guards turned around and shot George. Eventually, I gave up, put the game back on the shelf and didn't touch it again until months later. I attempted this sequence once more and still couldn't do it so I downloaded a savegame.

Apart from severe bugs or impossible stealth/action sequences, I can't really think of a good reason to use a savegame. I've seen people ask for savegames that allow them to skip a certain puzzle - e.g. the cigar box in Agon - Lost Sword of Toledo - and I just don't understand why. If I cannot solve a puzzle, there's always the possibility of consulting a walkthrough, and usually there's at least one w/t out there that can help solving the problem.

Only a very few times for me and both times over a Nancy Drew game. No way could I fabricate the needed line with a mouse to cut out the stupid dress. That should not surprise anyone as the Oldmariner never ever made a dress in his life. Not starting now. And again with the stupid typing test in yet another Nancy Drew game. But I refuse to dis anyone who needs a save. There are many reasons to want one and all are valid for the person doing the asking. I know I have sent many of them to people and never ever thought badly of them. If I have a save it's no big deal to pass it on.

Same as you metzo, its a bug (the end of Monet springs to mind) or I cannot do a dexterity solve (the elevator in Traitors Gate 2 is one such angst bringer).
Some cerebral solves though you can't do with a walkthrough. The bridge puzzle in Schizm is one of those, so a save game would be needed as opposed to just checking the walkthrough.

I've used them twice in finished games (not beta versions). The marble puzzle in Nibiru (before someone came up with a step-by-step solution) and the missing rope bug in Nostradamus.

I don't see any problem with using saved games if you're stuck and frustrated. I'm trying to think of an analogy.

Do people who read ahead in mystery stories ruin the experience? Well, some people kick themselves when they read ahead, so for them it's ruined the experience. Other people enjoy reading ahead, and don't feel guilty that they already know the murderer while they finish the book.

It's an individual decision. In an entertainment medium.

Find this to be an odd question.
Players need the help of a saved game for different reasons.
Poor eyesight (can't see all the details), poor hand movement (can't use the keyboard - WASD - quick enough in certain games,
just can't do slider puzzles, get frustrated and ready to take a hammer to the computer - better to ask for a saved game than to smash the computer.
There are puzzles that I could never do and without the help of a saved game from a fellow boomer, would never have finished the game. Sure I have sent saved game to boomer who would not have finished the game without it.
So, that's why this great site exits - to help and to be helped.

I think I've only used a saved game twice. One was for the sewing puzzle in ND Secrets of the Old Clock - after about 50 attempts I had to concede I just couldn't do it! (not sure whether it was a saved game or I sent off a save & the puzzle was done for me?) The other was for one of the Agon games - I didn't save very often & somehow lost the most recent so someone kindly sent me a save so I could carry on from the point I'd already got to.

Like other members I've played through the puzzle for someone using their save & then returning, which is a better option if the game is not so linear - also I've looked at someone's save (as has been kindly done for me) to work out what they've missed then been able to nudge them in the right direction. I think it's a better option than using a walkthrough but a very time consuming way of trying to help!

I've only thought about saved games when you cannot solve the puzzle even with a WT, usually because it's an action sequence. The WT can tell you what to do, but if you are not fast enough, forget it.
The only time I needed one was for the ending of The Ward - a particularly devious timed dexterity problem. I've come close to needing one for the mini arcade bits in the Nancy Drew Games and the finale of GK3, so basically and timed twitch challenge has the potential for me needing a saved game.

I've asked for a saved game just once. I encountered a bug in The Longest Journey, where the game would crash to desktop whenever I tried to enter the police station. Luckily I found a way around the glitch with texaslady's help, so didn't need the save after all.

If I get impossibly stuck with a timed puzzle or an arcade sequence, then a nudge from a walkthrough always puts me back on track. I refuse to give in. Mind you, I did come pretty close with the Fox & Geese puzzle in White Wolf. Hours & hours of torment! Happyhappyhappy when I beat it.

sierramindy, hi,



You misunderstood. It wasn't ME who needed a saved game for the spider bot puzzle. It was dozens and dozens of other Boomers. In fact, I play shooters and RPGs quite a lot and my reflexes are pretty good for an old guy. And... my walkthrough of Still Life gives a very detailed account of how to get past that challenge, with pictures:

http://www.quandaryland.com/jsp/dispArticle.jsp?index=721

So my reference to that particular puzzle was as a direct result of seeing so many requests for saved games up here on Boomers.

Regards,
MetzO'Magic

------------------
Jenny, hi,



And that's my point. So you're stuck, be it either on a puzzle or trying to get to the end of a location/time frame. Then consult a walkthrough to figure out what you need do, and do it. Why bother even playing the game otherwise? To me, asking for a saved game unnecessarily is like having other people play the game for you

Regards,
MetzO'Magic

-----------------

Retired at last, hi,



Granted, forgot about the dreaded slider puzzles which some people just can't solve, and the poor eyesight. Good points. But I already had the dexterity issue covered with the Still Life spider bot example.

Thanks for the feedback,
MetzO'Magic

----------------------------

Well, most of you seem to be in accord. You'll only ask for a saved game as an absolute last resort. But then, most of you who responded are pretty much adventure game veterans, so I would expect no less

Regards,
MetzO'Magic

Hi Metzo,

I combined your stacked posting. In an effort to help a bit on our bandwidth usage, we request to use the edit button when no one has posted recently after a post. Thanks.

And once you've used the walkthrough and still can't figure out what you missed, having someone else play past the problem is exactly what you want. Replaying large sections of the game, over and over, with or without a walkthrough, trying to find whatever trigger you missed that will let you progress in the game is boring boring boring. And you can never be sure the problem isn't due to a bug, and that an event isn't triggering because you did things in a different order from what the developer expected you to.

You don't have to enjoy every single puzzle in a game to enjoy the bulk of it. And people who play games more for the story than the puzzles are even less likely to want to devote time to figuring out why they can't progress in the game.

I ask when its a timed thing I can't do or that wretched sewing puzzle in Nancy. If its something I have not found I just look very hard, look at the walkthrough, look at the game again, scream for help finding the whatever it is etc.
Sometimes my son can do things I cannot - I am going to ask him to do the chess thing in Dream Chronicles 2.
Thank heaven for GB, some kind & wonderful person usually has a saved game

Hi

I started playing PC games in an era when walkthrough and saved game help simply didn't exist so sometimes it could take me weeks to solve one puzzle

Although obviously very happy if I DID eventually get past my sticking point I can't say that the taking weeks part was particularly enjoyable and these days, in similar circumstances and with help available should I need it, I would have no compunction whatsoever in seeking help much sooner - be it via a walkthrough or the very occasional saved game

I have always played my games for fun and not as a "test" and if help had been available in the past I would most definitely have used it

Cheers.

Mad

I've never used saved games from others. When I get stuck somehow I just keep on trying to solve the problem and if I can't solve it at that moment I put the game away for a while. Often when I restart it later I solve the problem in a jiffy.


Bernard

Hi metzomagic,
I didn't think it was you who needed the saved game, it was just the example that you used. I was bragging, I guess (that smug feeling) because I also know how many gamers complained about that stupid spider robot! I remember when I was playing I was glad that I could get yet another robot (I was afraid maybe there was a limited amount) because I had to do it over so many times before I found the map and even then it took a few extra tries. In fact, I recall I goofed on the very last move to the end square, which really annoyed me although I knew I would get it, finally!, with one more try, and I did. See, with all that work, don't you think I'm entitled to brag a little here, since it will be my only chance, I'm sure.
BTW, the walkthrough I used back then (July, 2005) was by Steve Metzler at quandaryland.

I ask for a saved game rarely. With the lost crown my sound went out and I had to play it on my XP instead of the Vista. Didnt want to start over from the begining and the saved game I transfered over wouldnt work, so I had to ask.
Sometimes with timed sequences If I have to keep repeating them my Arthritis in my right hand acts up and hurts too much to continue. I know how to do it but my hand doesnt cooperate sometimes. If I didnt get a saved game I would throw the game in the garbage, frustrated. So I am happy there are still people willing to help others

sierramindy, hi,



That's me!

Cheers,
Steve

I asked for a save game when i'm really stuck and i can't make it even with the help of the walkthrough...
I asked twice for a save game... The first one was when i was playing Next Life and the second one with ND Icicle Wolf.