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Plot Puzzles -- Are they or aren't they "Gameplay"? #327075
05/14/08 11:23 AM
05/14/08 11:23 AM
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Becky Offline OP
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Plot puzzles -- the kind where you have to piece together the order in which events happened, or investigate until you belatedly realize what actually DID happen -- are some of my favorite challenges in a game.

Do people consider these to be a "legitimate" form of gameplay? If a game consisted wholly of a series of plot puzzles, would you still consider it to be a game? Or if the game has plot puzzles, and the other (inventory, mechanical, etc) puzzles in the game are fewer or easier in order to accommodate all the thinking that goes into piecing together the plot -- do you feel that the game is "too easy?"

Last edited by Becky; 05/14/08 11:23 AM.
Re: Plot Puzzles -- Are they or aren't they "Gameplay"? [Re: Becky] #327080
05/14/08 11:30 AM
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Becky i have to admit that i understand the half of what you said (my poor poor english) but from what i understand i can tell you that i like putting the pieces together in the plot of a game and i don't think that a game can be easy if not has mechanical puzzles... I like the inventory puzzles though... For example in Sinking Island there was a lot of plot puzzles but few of inventory puzzles... I didn't mind... If the plot puzzle factor in a game is strong then i don't mind the not existence of any other puzzles smile


Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free.
Re: Plot Puzzles -- Are they or aren't they "Gameplay"? [Re: Volkana] #327131
05/14/08 12:55 PM
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It's a delicate balance, with a lot of other factors coming into play. Is the story involving enough? Does it draw you in, and make you need to know the why, when and wherefore? I would absolutely enjoy and support a game which consisted largely of plot puzzles, if it was well-made and entertaining.


"Bleat, Watson -- unmitigated bleat!" ~ Sherlock Holmes
Re: Plot Puzzles -- Are they or aren't they "Gameplay"? [Re: Rushes] #327221
05/14/08 02:41 PM
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I'm not sure that I understand the subject here. Perhaps examples of different types of games so described by Becky would clarify the matter.


ray
Re: Plot Puzzles -- Are they or aren't they "Gameplay"? [Re: RayBres] #327233
05/14/08 03:13 PM
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Hi Becky, I have to agree with RayBres here, I'm not sure I understand the subject either. An example of a game or two would be helpful? smile

Re: Plot Puzzles -- Are they or aren't they "Gameplay"? [Re: chrissie] #327244
05/14/08 03:23 PM
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Overclocked is a good example, I think. It's told in reverse flashback, so you have to piece together the story from the fragments. The puzzles are quite simple and inventory based.


"Bleat, Watson -- unmitigated bleat!" ~ Sherlock Holmes
Re: Plot Puzzles -- Are they or aren't they "Gameplay"? [Re: Rushes] #327247
05/14/08 03:26 PM
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Hi Rushes, I haven't played Overclocked yet - are there any other games that could be compared? smile

Re: Plot Puzzles -- Are they or aren't they "Gameplay"? [Re: chrissie] #327253
05/14/08 03:30 PM
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Becky, are you asking about things like the CSI games, where you're putting together a policy investigation, based on figuring out what has already happened?

Gremlin

Re: Plot Puzzles -- Are they or aren't they "Gameplay"? [Re: chrissie] #327260
05/14/08 03:38 PM
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Hi chrissie wave

Shadow of Memories (aka Shadow of Destiny) is another example.


"Bleat, Watson -- unmitigated bleat!" ~ Sherlock Holmes
Re: Plot Puzzles -- Are they or aren't they "Gameplay"? [Re: Rushes] #327268
05/14/08 03:46 PM
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Maybe the question should be whether something that has "plot puzzles" and no other type of puzzles qualifies as an adventure game -- or should it be under a different classification (maybe interactive movie).

Re: Plot Puzzles -- Are they or aren't they "Gameplay"? [Re: Rushes] #327272
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Thank you Rushes. smile Shadows of Memories was a very interesting & engaging game I thought, with a very innotative approach. I liked it very much & would like to have seen more - there was at some point some talk of a sequel.

It didn't have an inventory as such or puzzles, & I didn't consider it easy but it was to my mind a legitimate & superb AG! I'd love to see more games like it - but they'd have to be as well done or better & not instead of our normal AGs - as well as! smile

Re: Plot Puzzles -- Are they or aren't they "Gameplay"? [Re: chrissie] #327283
05/14/08 03:58 PM
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chrissie, did you take part in the GB group play of Shadow of Memories/Destiny a couple of years back? I remember that as being great fun.


"Bleat, Watson -- unmitigated bleat!" ~ Sherlock Holmes
Re: Plot Puzzles -- Are they or aren't they "Gameplay"? [Re: Rushes] #327290
05/14/08 04:03 PM
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Rushes, sadly I didn't - I think I was a lot newer to the forum then, also my version is for PS2. But I do remember following some of the thread smile

Re: Plot Puzzles -- Are they or aren't they "Gameplay"? [Re: chrissie] #327369
05/14/08 06:54 PM
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Becky Offline OP
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Shadow of Destiny (Memories) was one of the games I was thinking of, as was Overclocked (though I've just read descriptions of Overclocked so far).

I was also thinking of games like Scratches, Dreamfall, The Experiment and The Lost Crown, where there are detailed discussions in the forums as to what exactly is going on in the game and what the implications are for the plot and characters.

I've seen Dreamfall, Shadow of Destinies and Overclocked criticized as not having enough gameplay or for being too easy. Which seems very strange to me, since figuring out the plot in games like these seems to me to be as much an intellectual exercise as figuring out which inventory item should be used on which hotspot.

I can understand how others might feel differently, however. So I was curious as to how many people might agree or disagree.

Re: Plot Puzzles -- Are they or aren't they "Gameplay"? [Re: Becky] #327371
05/14/08 06:58 PM
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Plot puzzles to me (like Overclocked) are like interactive movies. Considering I have the attention span of a gnat unless I am actually doing something, I have to say those games are not for me at all. Finishing Overclocked was very painful for me.

Ana wave


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Re: Plot Puzzles -- Are they or aren't they "Gameplay"? [Re: BrownEyedTigre] #327376
05/14/08 07:00 PM
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Becky Offline OP
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So it isn't that plot puzzles don't make you think (they do that). It's that they don't make you feel as though you are actively doing something in the game?

Re: Plot Puzzles -- Are they or aren't they "Gameplay"? [Re: Becky] #327380
05/14/08 07:06 PM
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I was bored to tears is the truth. Even though the story was gripping, I wasn't in the mood for a movie. Perhaps if you had to do something else but click on a recording to trigger advancement each time it would have been different.

It needed "more" anything. It's like watching a movie at the theatre but everyone has to get up and change rows every ten minutes. It broke the spell of the "movie" to have to do something to trigger them, and it broke the gameplay to continuously click on a PDA to trigger a cutscene.

Ana wave


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Re: Plot Puzzles -- Are they or aren't they "Gameplay"? [Re: BrownEyedTigre] #327504
05/14/08 10:20 PM
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Hi smile

I haven't started Overclocked yet so can't comment on it - but I do prefer a variety of puzzles in a game rather than a mainly plot puzzle driven one ....

Often I simply can't spare the proper amount of "sit and think" time during a gaming session when plot puzzling is the only way to progress rolleyes

Cheers.

Mad grin


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Re: Plot Puzzles -- Are they or aren't they "Gameplay"? [Re: Mad] #327542
05/15/08 01:42 AM
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I love the plot puzzle style, and found Overclocked more immersive than when I have to stop game play in a game to figure out a machinery puzzle, or how to sneak past something, etc.


"How could drops of water know themselves to be a river? Yet the river flows on."
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Re: Plot Puzzles -- Are they or aren't they "Gameplay"? [Re: nickie] #327567
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Thats why I like detectives .Guessing who did it is part of the fun .Then proving it .With some puzzals of cause that coinside with the game .Every one of cause likes differant themes .I like the daft one to monkey island where every thing goes .Its all according what sort of mood I am in . lol wave

Re: Plot Puzzles -- Are they or aren't they "Gameplay"? [Re: dragonuk44] #327745
05/15/08 11:57 AM
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It really does depend upon the individual game, doesn't it. smile I was bored by Overclocked, but I did very much enjoy Shadow of Destiny and found it a very well thought-out game. And I've played Dreamfall 3 times now, and enjoy it more each time; its world is captivating and magical, and (for me, at least) the lack of any real puzzles doesn't detract from it in any way.


"Bleat, Watson -- unmitigated bleat!" ~ Sherlock Holmes
Re: Plot Puzzles -- Are they or aren't they "Gameplay"? [Re: Rushes] #327753
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I love it when the plot leaves some things to the imagination, I even like games with an open ending!


Bernard

Re: Plot Puzzles -- Are they or aren't they "Gameplay"? [Re: BrownEyedTigre] #327778
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Originally Posted By: BrownEyedTigre
I was bored to tears is the truth. Even though the story was gripping, I wasn't in the mood for a movie. Perhaps if you had to do something else but click on a recording to trigger advancement each time it would have been different.

It needed "more" anything. It's like watching a movie at the theatre but everyone has to get up and change rows every ten minutes. It broke the spell of the "movie" to have to do something to trigger them, and it broke the gameplay to continuously click on a PDA to trigger a cutscene.

Ana


I have to agree with Ana. I haven't played Overclocked, but I've encountered the same kind thing she's talking about in other games. Most of these games would have worked better as real movies than as "interactive movies."

Re: Plot Puzzles -- Are they or aren't they "Gameplay"? [Re: Jenny100] #327838
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Apology for my ignorance.

What is the definition of *plot-puzzle*?

Re: Plot Puzzles -- Are they or aren't they "Gameplay"? [Re: LindaMarion] #327866
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Becky Offline OP
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A plot puzzle occurs in a game where significant portions of the story are ambiguous or parts of the story occur in odd time sequences (for instance, perhaps your character is traveling through time, or to different worlds in different times, or perhaps she is remembering things, but it's not clear what order the memories are in). So you spend part of the time you're playing the game trying to come up with the most logical time line, or figuring out how certain events fit within the plot. That's how I would define it, anyway. grin

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