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Sherlaock Holmes vs. Jack the Riper - a different opinion (Possible Spoilers) #544642
09/07/09 02:51 PM
09/07/09 02:51 PM
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New Hampshire
SuMac Offline OP
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I know most of the comments about this game have been favorable, but of all the Sherlock Holmes games I think I enjoyed this one the least. I know this story is about a series of very gruesome murders that have never been solved.

My main complaint is that most of the game takes place in the dreariest, darkest most dismal parts of the London slums in the late 1800's. There is almost no variety of settings. I had a hard time even seeing what was going on until I adjusted the brightness to almost the max.

The gruesome aspects of the murders were dwelled on over and over, and even some of the puzzles were macabre: such as
Click to reveal..
slicing at severed pigs head in a slaughterhouse in order to determine the murder weapon
.

This is not meant to be a rant - I just did not find this game to be fun or entertaining, which for me are two of the most important reasons to play adventure game.

Last edited by BrownEyedTigre; 09/07/09 02:58 PM. Reason: added spoiler tag
Re: Sherlaock Holmes vs. Jack the Riper - a different opinion (Possible Spoilers) [Re: SuMac] #544650
09/07/09 03:14 PM
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Sorry you did not like it SuMac, but I felt the opposite of you. All those things you did care for such as the dreary slums and the murders are what made this so realistic. There is no pleasant way to put what transpired and the neighborhood was researched by the developers to be as historically correct as possible.

Ana wave



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Re: Sherlaock Holmes vs. Jack the Riper - a different opinion (Possible Spoilers) [Re: BrownEyedTigre] #544657
09/07/09 03:51 PM
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Hi, SuMac

I totally agree with you...

I got tried of bumping into people...Trying to talk to them ..Only to find out it was a waste of my time...

Not only that..The game started out with finding
Click to reveal..
The captain's suitcase,Plus you had to find the drunk a place to live <sigh>
I played it for two hours ...Got tired of going back ,and forth to do stupid things...Uninstalled it..

Alot of things in the game didn't make any sense as to the story of "Jack The ripper" There was too much nonsense to deal with in the game...

My opinion...

Also I want to add the puzzles made me bonkers crazy....First off....If I wanted to play a CSI game I would of bought that type of game.. duh

Last edited by Darleen03; 09/07/09 04:13 PM. Reason: added something

Luv Dar


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Re: Sherlaock Holmes vs. Jack the Riper - a different opinion (Possible Spoilers) [Re: Darleen03] #545115
09/08/09 05:17 PM
09/08/09 05:17 PM
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I realize the game was meant to be realistic and historically accurate. That kind of realism is not my cup of tea.

I really enjoyed all the previous Sherlock Holmes games, especially "The Awakened", which also features a series of macabe murders. But that game had a wide variety of locations, moments of humor, and was a lot more interesting and Fun!

I just never expected a Sherlock Holmes game to be so unpleasant and in many instances, repulsive. I should have read the reviews before I purchased the game.

Re: Sherlaock Holmes vs. Jack the Riper - a different opinion (Possible Spoilers) [Re: SuMac] #545230
09/08/09 10:19 PM
09/08/09 10:19 PM
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United Kingdom
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Although The Awakened is my favourite "modern" Sherlock Holmes game too, I DID enjoy Sherlock versus Jack thumbsup

In fact I personally think Frogwares deserve much praise for their games because they give us good solid adventures which are very polished and well produced happydance

AND they have even started offering alternative ways to play - 1st or 3rd person bravo


Time : The Most Precious Commodity
Re: Sherlaock Holmes vs. Jack the Riper - a different opinion (Possible Spoilers) [Re: Mad] #545328
09/09/09 07:41 AM
09/09/09 07:41 AM
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I'm sorry you didn't enjoy the game, but Frogwares stated from the very beginning what the game would be, realistic, accurate, and proposing a real candidate for Jack the Ripper, this had to go with all the reenactments in the game.

Frogwares is trying to propose different games every time, The Awakened was a pure adventure, where investigation had the small part, hence the supernatural and the disturbing atmosphere. Nemesis proposed a game for puzzle lovers in beautiful, bright sceneries and cultural/historical places.
Jack the Ripper is the recreation of Whitechapel with all its good and bad sides.
the next Sherlock Holmes games will propose a different experience.

I must add that we did want people to dislike Whitechapel area, to not feel compassion to the poor people living there, to feel bored when looking for documents and run simple errands... We wanted it so players could feel like the other people living outside Whitechapel at that time, that they had no interest in it because it wasn't extraordinary (who cares about tramps killed). And it's exactly what drove mainly the disinterest of the police and authorities for those poor prostitutes/tramps killed in horrible ways. Should I recall that Jack was never arrested.

We wanted to have things this way also so we understand that journalists created Jack the Ripper, as a media character, a profitable business and finally attracted the attention of the public to the serial killer, but for their own profit and not to help people in Whitechapel.

So, if you didn't like the first part, you felt what was intended to make you feel, and your choice was supposed to be the following, or you get on with this difficult investigation that can be rewarding or you want to have fun and go to play something else:)

we do free demos for all of our games, and the most "difficult" part of the SH5 was in it, so I suppose there was no surprise here.

you can use the map to teleport and not go back and forth, it saves a lot of time.

Again, we propose every time different gaming experience in our Sherlock Holmes games, maybe the Silver Earring is another kind of investigation, not gruesome at all and no blood involved.

Last edited by thehood; 09/09/09 07:43 AM.
Re: Sherlaock Holmes vs. Jack the Riper - a different opinion (Possible Spoilers) [Re: thehood] #545332
09/09/09 07:59 AM
09/09/09 07:59 AM
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Hi thehood and thanks for the explanation of what was going on in the developers' minds while designing the game!

I believe that games can be art and can explore multiple human emotions -- and that immersing the player in a historical re-creation is one effective way to do that.

It's great that each Sherlock Holmes game has a different focus. Nemesis happens to be my personal favorite, but I know there are many fans of the other Sherlocks as well. bravo


Re: Sherlaock Holmes vs. Jack the Riper - a different opinion (Possible Spoilers) [Re: Becky] #545347
09/09/09 08:25 AM
09/09/09 08:25 AM
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Thank You, thehood

For the explanation...While I disliked Jack the Ripper...This is purely my opinion & not meant to sway anyone to think differently..

I did download the demo for Nemesis, but could not play the game because of panning..

The awakening I got to play because it was remade so I could play in the third person...

I totally enjoyed the awakened ,because as you "said" it was a pure Adventure made game.

I do appreciate that Frog wares listens to its customers thoughts on their games thumbsup

Have a Nice Day!!!


Luv Dar


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Re: Sherlaock Holmes vs. Jack the Riper - a different opinion (Possible Spoilers) [Re: Darleen03] #545451
09/09/09 01:06 PM
09/09/09 01:06 PM
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United Kingdom
Mad Offline
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Hi thehood smile

Just want to say a direct thanks for Sherlock Versus Jack - and all the other great games you have given us thumbsup
Just waiting for the next one now !! yay

Cheers.

Mad wave


Time : The Most Precious Commodity
Re: Sherlaock Holmes vs. Jack the Riper - a different opinion (Possible Spoilers) [Re: thehood] #546051
09/11/09 01:17 AM
09/11/09 01:17 AM
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Originally Posted By: thehood
And it's exactly what drove mainly the disinterest of the police and authorities for those poor prostitutes/tramps killed in horrible ways. Should I recall that Jack was never arrested.


These murders in real life predated D.N.A., blood typing, and even fingerprinting. The didn't have the fancy crime labs you see on C.S.I. Short of someone seeing the murders happen, or catching the killer in the act, the police had little chance of connecting anyone to the murders.


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Re: Sherlaock Holmes vs. Jack the Riper - a different opinion (Possible Spoilers) [Re: Gnabgib] #546090
09/11/09 05:58 AM
09/11/09 05:58 AM
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Guys, please - do a little research before you just buy and start playing a game! Sure, these murders predated scientific methods, but that is exactly what Sherlock Holmes, the creation of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle was all about! Conan Doyle created the character of the famous and brilliant detective Sherlock Holmes, to illustrate a more scientific approach to crime-solving than the "hearsay" that the police would employ before more scientific methods of criminology and crime scene investigation was implemented. Actually, Frogwares has demonstrated classic Sherlock Holmes at its best in SH vs JTR, with Sherlock taking a more scientific and deductive approach to crimesolving.

Also, if you buy a game about Jack the Ripper, without having known that it was about a series of gruesome murders in a dingy part of London... maybe you should do a bit of homework before you buy your next game... just a suggestion.
So what I am saying is, that if you knew the subject matter was about a series of gruesome murders, it makes sense that there would be a bit of gruesomeness (I actually thought the subject matter was amazingly subtly and sensitively handled, considering the actual goriness of the actual murders that had taken place. For instance, in the game, chalk abstract pictures were used when examining the bodies, and the real gore was not depicted at all. Have you seen real-life photographs of JTR's last murder? It is something beyond horrendous.)

Yes, I enjoyed all the previous Sherlock Holmes games, and The Awakened is my favourite too. That does not stop me from reading reviews about games, looking up screenshots, playing the demos, watching trailers, asking other gamers what they thought of the game, reading up a bit about the background if available, etc. before I spend my hard-earned money on the game. smile


`Curiouser and curiouser!' cried Alice
Re: Sherlaock Holmes vs. Jack the Riper - a different opinion (Possible Spoilers) [Re: Moondancer] #546370
09/11/09 11:33 PM
09/11/09 11:33 PM
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I've been a Sherlock fan since I was able to start reading, and have read several books on the Jack the Ripper case. Knew what the game was going to be about and was very happy with how both were displayed in the game. Much better than a different Jack the Ripper game released a couple of years ago. I also like the fact that they stayed away from the whole royal conspiracy theory that usually ends up in any story about Jack The Ripper. My point wasn't about the game, but about the comment of how the police were uninterested in catching Jack.


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Re: Sherlaock Holmes vs. Jack the Riper - a different opinion (Possible Spoilers) [Re: Gnabgib] #546402
09/12/09 04:45 AM
09/12/09 04:45 AM
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Originally Posted By: Gnabgib
My point wasn't about the game, but about the comment of how the police were uninterested in catching Jack.


Sorry, I guess I should have made clear that I was not addressing anyone in particular, Gnagib.

I was just saying (in general) that if you buy a game about Jack the Ripper, how can you, in all honesty, complain about any goriness in the game (since the subject matter is pretty gory!) and how can you complain about having to employ "CSI" -type methods, if it is a game with Sherlock Holmes as the protagonist!

It is like buying a game titled: "The Magic-users of Fairyland" and then you complain that there are fairies in the game who employ magic! lol


`Curiouser and curiouser!' cried Alice
Re: Sherlaock Holmes vs. Jack the Riper - a different opinion (Possible Spoilers) [Re: Moondancer] #546465
09/12/09 10:06 AM
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I'm playing SH vs JR now. I have played all the Sherlock games and have liked them very much. I have no problem with the subject matter and think the graphics in the game are good. I love the map that you can click on to go to different locations and the fact you can go from 1st to 3rd person. I like 1st smile . I believe I am almost at the end of the game. What I do not care for in this game is that I feel it leads you to do what is next- where to go and what to do. They give a hints in the conversation then say let's go here-- or let's do this instead of letting you figure it out as in their other games. And the some puzzles --you kind of can't do them wrong. I felt their other games had you work harder to figure things out.
That said- I am sure to get the next Sherlock game to play-


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Re: Sherlaock Holmes vs. Jack the Riper - a different opinion (Possible Spoilers) [Re: thehood] #546494
09/12/09 11:07 AM
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What a great forum where people can converse with developers in this way smile

I have yet to play Jack the Ripper but have recently finished the Awakened and i have to say that i was surprised by the graphic nature of some of the scenes. I appreciate that Frogwares try to keep their Sherlock holmes series of games fresh and not just rehash the same game each time but in my opinion the brand doesn't lend itself to this kind of game. I really don't think that Sherlock Holmes is a great vehicle for 'pure adventure' and certainly not of the grusome horror movie variety, which i felt it came close to at points. Personally, i found this one particular game to be a misstep for the series.

So if this latest game is following the same route then i will probably give it a miss.

This is without getting into the morality or wisdom of involving REAL MURDERS (which people seem to forget these killings were) in a computer game, regardless of the antiquity or the already established low watermark for sensationalist exploitation of these horrific REAL OCCURANCES. Maybe these women deserved more than becoming fodder for a million exploitational books, films and computer games. But that's not really a debate appropriate to this forum i guess.

Re: Sherlaock Holmes vs. Jack the Riper - a different opinion (Possible Spoilers) [Re: Bondola_Bates] #546503
09/12/09 11:27 AM
09/12/09 11:27 AM
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I've just finished playing this for the 2nd time and I loved it. Personally, I think Sherlock Holmes is perfect for an adventure game, it's like reading the book and finding the answers rather than have Holmes just tell you the answers.
I liked the green frames when you got an answer right as it helped to keep the story moving, also Holmes telling you where to go next and the great map was splendid.
Maybe games like this will remind people of the horror of being poor in Victorian London and other cities. Having said that there was recently a spate of murders of prostitutes in Ipswitch, so history repeats its self


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Re: Sherlaock Holmes vs. Jack the Riper - a different opinion (Possible Spoilers) [Re: Winfrey] #546504
09/12/09 11:32 AM
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Is the updated version of Sherlock Holmes vs. Arsene Lupin, with the option for 3rd person, still in the works?

I enjoyed Sherlock vs. Jack the Ripper more than I expected to. I usually prefer games with brighter, more colorful, more cheerful surroundings. But I appreciated all the research that went into creating the story and coming up with a believable solution to the Ripper mystery -- and an interesting way of uncovering the mystery, step-by-step.

Re: Sherlaock Holmes vs. Jack the Riper - a different opinion (Possible Spoilers) [Re: Bondola_Bates] #546566
09/12/09 02:53 PM
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Well I want to thank Frogwares and thehood for all the excellent games they have given us to play. I think that people really should investigate a game before buying it that way they have some sort of understanding to what it is about. I know everyone has the right to their opinion but come on really Jack the Ripper and Sherlock did fully explain that it had gory bloody scenes in it and that it was trying to recapture what had happened back then in London and how the people of White Chapel were really not treated right. I think it was a excellent game and in fact I have already replayed it several times, I find that when I play the Sherlock Holmes games, I seem to miss things in the game and then when I play it again I realize OH Thats what that was about and so forth. So I guess I just had to put my two cents in about this game because it was a very good game and I really enjoyed playing it. Thank you Frogwares for the Sherlock games and I am patiently waiting for the next one. happydance happydance wink Trisha

Re: Sherlaock Holmes vs. Jack the Riper - a different opinion (Possible Spoilers) [Re: Trisha] #546701
09/13/09 01:14 AM
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I am beginning to wonder if some of the people who are being rather critical here are truly familiar with Arthur Conan Doyle's Sherlock Holmes stories woozy

I've personally read all he wrote of Sherlock Holmes - and more than once - and probably seen all the Sherlock Holmes films ever made also lol

So I definitely feel the need to emphatically repeat my praise from earlier in this thread for Frogwares and their truly "authentic" Sherlock Holmes games - whether they have offered their interpretation of an actual Conan Doyle story or given us an "in the style of" production yes yes yes

Last edited by Mad; 09/13/09 01:15 AM.

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Re: Sherlaock Holmes vs. Jack the Riper - a different opinion (Possible Spoilers) [Re: Mad] #546715
09/13/09 03:21 AM
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I absolutely agree with you Mad. I am personally also a great Arthur Conan Doyle/Sherlock Holmes fan, and I really appreciate the way that Frogwares strives to give us rich and exciting experiences in this genre. I remember reading somewhere, that they strive to alternate the experience: The Mummy and Silver Earring was pure detective, and neither gory or humorous (though I did enjoy The Silver Earring). Then along came The Awakened; and it was a dark, immersive and exciting experience, to the extent that you don't often find in Adventure games.

Then Frogwares spruced things up a bit in Nemesis with some art and historical culture, along with a touch of (admittedly not always entirely successful) comedy. (Still, they tried)

I find SH vs JTR probably to be their darkest game, since horror dished up as fantasy, even Lovecraftian fantasy, never quite has the personal impact for me that horror based on real-life events has .
It is very sobering to be reminded of the darkness that lies lurking deep within the recesses of the human soul.

Btw, another sobering thought is the emphasis that Frogwares placed on the role that the prevalence of Syphilis played in the JTR story. Something we tend to forget, since this disease is treatable today. This is a very sad element of the whole story, and especially the sadness involved of how it affected little children. frown


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Re: Sherlaock Holmes vs. Jack the Riper - a different opinion (Possible Spoilers) [Re: Moondancer] #546798
09/13/09 11:01 AM
09/13/09 11:01 AM
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Please allow me to also agree with Mad. Through dozens of films, a few television shows, and several attempts at copying, I doubt that anyone has done as well at presenting Holmes and Watson in manner in which Doyle would have wanted them presented (OK, perhaps Jeremy Brett). In the games, Holmes' arrogance and frigidity are, indeed, exactly what Doyle wrote. The real beauty of the games is that Frogwares bothered to also present Watson correctly, and that is quite a rarity. The games were fine as games and character studies. My only problem with them is that I haven't heard an answet to inevitable question; "What's next?"


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Re: Sherlaock Holmes vs. Jack the Riper - a different opinion (Possible Spoilers) [Re: Bondola_Bates] #548984
09/20/09 05:53 AM
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just finished this game, well it was okay but the ending was stupid & completely spoiled the game.
Not sure if I will play it again, not for some time anyway.

Re: Sherlaock Holmes vs. Jack the Riper - a different opinion (Possible Spoilers) [Re: plumgas] #549048
09/20/09 09:47 AM
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That's interesting plumgas. I found the ending to have been absolutely brilliant!

Ana wave


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Re: Sherlaock Holmes vs. Jack the Riper - a different opinion (Possible Spoilers) [Re: BrownEyedTigre] #549113
09/20/09 12:44 PM
09/20/09 12:44 PM
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How easy could it be for the developers to "create" an ending for this murder case when in real life it didn't have one and when zillions of people are so well acquainted with the known facts, anyway ?? eek

I thought it was quite a feasible ending, myself, and much better than the "cliffhanger" we might have been landed with grin



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Re: Sherlaock Holmes vs. Jack the Riper - a different opinion (Possible Spoilers) [Re: Mad] #549220
09/20/09 07:50 PM
09/20/09 07:50 PM
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well I thought they could put some video footage of jack commiting the murders instead of him just waving the knife around with music.

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