Message from Tri Synergy about Limbo of the Lost

Tri Synergy Comments on Recent Limbo of the Lost/Oblivion Comparisons

Oh, Dear

So ..Becky ..Does that mean there will be no more games from them

Well, I would be VERY surprised if there were more games from the developers (Majestic Studios) after this.

I don't know how this will affect Tri Synergy (US publisher) or G2 Games (UK publisher). I think we're just going to have to wait and see what happens.

There are some screen shot comparisons in this thread over at JA.

Thread

It seems there are some issues with written dialog as well.

Looks like both the G2 Games version and the Tri Synergy version of this game are going to become collectors' items.

Shhhh!

That was my thought too Jenny...

I would think this would make the game more fun to play for gamers who enjoy action and RPG games as well as adventures. They could have contests with each other picking out where the different parts of the game came from. Someone should make a website about it. This is a great candidate for JA's Dungeon of Shame.

It's also noteworthy that this same Limbo of the Lost game was the source of so much controversy in this forum several months ago (December or so?) when a seemingly immature individual connected with the game's development criticized a reviewer at GB. The plot thickens considerably now.

I well remember when the designer(s) posted on this board, prior to the game's release, due to the fracas that ensued. That was memorable right there, but I never could have imagined this particular denouement.

And, yes, perversely, I am glad that I own a copy of this game;it's definitely destined for a grotesque notoriety (!).

You got that right -

InlandAZ have not seen you around in awhile. How are you?

Been just fine oldmariner - how's by you?

This is sad day for us independent developers out there. Not wanting to repeat myself, I've commented on the news:

http://forum.dead-code.org/index.php?topic=2746.msg18387#msg18387

WME community is deeply saddened that we helped to create this act of plagiatorism by providing tons of ready-to-use code, advices etc. We hope publishers out there won't take this as a precedense and use it against us who honestly invest tons of hours into creating our own games.

I wish to SBOVIS/FABLE and all other his aliases to look in the mirror and ponder if this is the life he wants to live.

iF this is true, then it is indeed a sad day for independent developers.

However, I remeber someone claiming that STALKER (I think it was Stalker) also had stole textures from either Oblivion or Doom 3. It was later revealed that both the devs. behind STALKER and the devs. from Oblivion or DOOM 3 had licensed the exact same assets from a third party (russian?) webiste/firm where they could get them for free, I think?

My guess is that this at least in part could be an explanation here.

The bigger discussion it this one:

Do Bethesda or any other game developer have copy right to a staircase used in a mansion in a game? If they have, then the whole gaming community could well be in trouble asd this would mean that noone ever could make a traditional mansion with a long winding staircase...

I'm not advocating theft or IP or copy right infringement here,
and I think it is sad when Majestic Studio indeed took a shortcut by imitating (or copying) some or all of Oblivion's content or rooms in Oblivion.

The story in Limbo of the Lost seems nowhere to be ripped off from Oblivion which is what I hear when I hear the word 'level design'.

Many games today use the Unreal 3 engine (like Oblivion) and many games today also use Speedtree, and Havoc for physics effects. That's why they apparently all look the same today s compared to the game of yesteryear where handcolored backgrounds were much more prevalent.

Again, I'm not saying that Majestic Studios didn't do anything wrong, (it certainly looks that way right now, though), but let's say you where to make a game and you needed an old victorian mansion. Wouldn't you think of an old house in sort of gothic style with a long winded staircase, possibly starting in the middle and a rug in the hallway + maybe a varm and cosy fireplace? I know I would...

Please do not take this an excuse for any copyright stealing or infringement, mere a question on where to draw the line between inspiration and stealing...

Unfortunately, this is no "inspiration". If you looked at comparison shots, they are direct rips from the respective games.

So it's not a question about texture or sound but of pressing a print screen and pasting it into photoshop. So while we all agree that many games inspire from each other, in this case it's a direct screen grab from tons of existing games including Oblivion, Bloodlines, Silent Hill 4, Fable etc.

More information is now available on Wikipedia. Click here and scroll down to the "Controversy," "External links" and "References" sections.

I understand people's concerns regarding how this may affect other independent developers, but I can assure you that as far as my company is concerned I'm not worried at all. If your conscience is clear, it's very easy to prove that all the work included in your game is yours: I have all the necessary paperwork and in fact I spent quite a lot of money to insure that everything is not only proved to be mine, but also copyrighted. I can't imagine why a publisher would not want to do business with me.

How in the name of ______ did they think they could get away with this? Their names are in the media, pictures were taken, they were published in NA and Europe.

I mean, sure, they made this game, got it published, got some money for it (that will soon be sued off of them wholesale) but the only way this could've gone unnoticed is if we're still getting games on floppy disks and the internet doesn't exist.

I just can't understand the mentality of the person who thinks that he can slap his name as "game designer" and use major commercial game screenshots.

I just looked at the comparison screenshots Of limbo & oblivion..

They are the same..

I guess there work wasn't there own..

Darleen, that's what all this is about. It goes far beyond Oblivion.

It would appear at this point that they have ripped off so many different games (and movies as well), that the challenge now is to find something in the way of graphics that IS indeed theirs, and original.

After all the abuse that Inferno got & the subsequent posts by other members of the team defending S Bovis & themselves I just can't see them as anything but a bunch of p********s.

Here are the 'young & hotheaded' culprits: (I hope it's okay to post this link from JA)

http://www.kentmessenger.co.uk/paper/default.asp?article_id=9644&slide_id=1& amp;newspage=2&searchkeyword=&searchpage=1

It seems now that their 'fate & destiny' is that their arrogance will cost them a lot more financially than they've made from the game as it looks like they are going to be sued bigtime.

It depends, if the intent was to steal from other games to profit by it, I suspect they knew it would blow up at some point. If that is / was their thinking, it is likely they took their initial payday and are long gone.

On the other hand if they were so foolish to believe nobody would notice well they deserve the flak.

Based upon the reviews, reception and overall end product of the game the former is more likely. If so they have new names, a new location and perhaps even another game under production.

Time will tell.

My other thought was that the notoriety attached to the game along with a publisher pulling out would push up the value of any copies put into circulation but not necessarily by people who have bought the game.... (tell me off if I'm being too wicked here.)

This is very sad news...

I think I will hold on to my Copy of Limbo...Might make me some money on Ebay

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=17885450

Lots of comparison shots on this topic also. Wow really surprised a publisher didnt know of this. And to the developers of limbo, shame on you. Stealing others work is a crime and i hope they get whats coming to them. Theives..

--

Hmm when was limbo released, it wasnt released on april 1st was it by chance?

Chrissie -- thinking that a now-famous game whose publisher is pulling all copies at the moment of publication would (possibly) increase in value -- is that wicked? Sssshh!

Well, although I consider myself a collector of adventure game and enjoy buying 'rarities'; I am glad I did not spend any of my money on these frauds. It may become quite valuable one day, but it'll be a lacking in my collection that I will not regret one bit.

Hi Becky, I was thinking more that the developers would be in a position to flog copies themselves on E-bay but thinking about it, it would probably not compensate for their legal bill.

Pollo --

Chrissie -- I've done exactly that, though in my case with Cassandra Galleries.

Ignoring all this well-deserved shock and amazement for the moment, am I the only one who thought it was a fairly lousy game? I admit it was presented as a grotesquely unique game, but most of the other elements which reviewers actually review seemed ill-done or carelessly completed. I was, in fact, prepared to write rather negative review of it myself. [A note of honesty here, I haven't finished the last level, so perhaps that saves it.]

I can't believe these guys made all this money off of another person's work...

I did think in the beginning that there was a lot of Hoop-La with this game...Sort of like game hype....

They charged $40.00 for this game ..Which was way to much for wandering around aimlessly

I thought it was overall a very entertaining and humorous game with nice scenery (cough!) & good voice acting. I liked the different styles of each level even if I thought them a little incongruous with each other. I personally thought the game worked & had an unusual quality about it. It's seems debatable now as to how much of the game was actually the original work of the developers as I've since read something else referring to plagiarised dialogue!

Another thing I thought about was flotsam's 2008 'twisty' list which I believe is to start this weekend. I've already done a provisional list & Limbo of the Lost already wasn't a contender for the top 21 for me so I'm quite relieved! But I wondered how this is going to affect submissions by other players?

I think...And please correct me if I am wrong...

That the game a couple of months ago came from Sing a Pore...SO no one noticed until it got published by Tri Synergy ...

It sort of breeze by everyone until it hit the USA publisher

Darleen -- for some reason, the UK publisher sent out a bunch of copies to an Asian distributor before the game became available in the UK. (It might have been Singapore, I don't remember exactly.) That's where the GameBoomers got their hands on it.

I believe that, for the past few months, it has been possible to purchase the game via the UK publisher's store (UK publisher is G2 Games).

Tri Synergy was about to release the game in the US and sent around copies to the reviewers of various websites and magazines. One of those reviewers, who apparently plays RPGs and has a good eye for graphical detail, noticed the similarities between the two games.

I think that's what's happened so far.

Oh well...Lesson learned I say...On to better games

Darleen, it has nothing to do with it. The game has not been released here in the US yet as you can see Here . Review copies were sent out with the G2 publisher also to the US, before Tri-Synergy ever agreed to publish it here. It just took a keen eye to make the connection. Once the connection was made, it was then looked at with a different eye and more things were found.

Ana

This is indeed an most unusual and tragic event for the adventure game community.

Does anyone know if this has ever happened to any adventure game before? Or any video game in general?

Thanks, Ana

Does anyone know who had the keen eye? I would love to know that...

It was posted on the other thread I linked to. Here is the original breaking news.

Ana

Thanks, Ana

I am so amazed by this...I think maybe this is first with adventure games...Do you "agree:"?

I think it comes down to someone playing who is pretty familiar with the game (Oblivion) and has played it fairly recently. Even then I would suspect that for most it wouldn't even register because no one would even consider for a moment that a developer with a publishing contract would be THAT brazen.

Once someone pointed out the store in the imperial city, it was like a switch went off and all of a sudden you see TONS of things from other games in there.

DArleen, I think it's safe to say that nothing has surfaced to this extent.

Ivinia, the second I showed my son the screenshots yesterday he recognized the Oblivion scenes. I played Oblivion and never made the connection. Now that I know it, I remember all the scenes.

Ana

My son also played Oblivion...But he doesn't play adventure games...I never played oblivion...So I hadn't a clue...

Well...I said enough about Limbo...On this thread...

Its just a sad day when people steal others hard work to make a profit..

Very Sad

Hi

I am so disappointed and disgusted - having originally given my full support to two of the development team

Cheers.

Mad

My brother and I were talking about PC games he bought and he asked me whether i knew LOTL, and i told him yes i knew about it, and he said google limbo of the lost oblivion and i did, i was amazed by the results. It's not just borrowing ideas, it's copying and pasting from various games. Disgrace.

Do I remember some rather strange attitudes from the developers on this site ? They were being difficult about one of our reviews and a walkthrough if I remember rightly

JennyP -- you remember correctly. Though as a result of their remarks here the review was never posted.

http://www.gameplasma.com/limbo_of_the_lost_or_oblivion.html

JA also has something on their site about this. If it's true that's pretty brazen!

Hi cazziejoe,

There's a Sticky topic at the top of this forum about the very same thing.

Oh! Always a bit behind here.....

I may be wrong but I was just over at Amazon.com (US) site and I saw the game on sale for $29.99. It did state that it would take 3-5 weeks for delivery. There is a copy up for bidding at Ebay curently going for $61.00. What in the world is going on?

Needless to say, I would not buy this game from anyone, to ensure not another penny goes into their fraudulent coffers.

What disgusting crowd.from more than 1 point of view.

Ihave nt played Oblivion so I would nt have noticed .I think this is bad for gaming .I guess it all comes down to money as usual Such a pity

As for the ebay thing, I know that people at some other places want to get their hands on this game before production is shut down totally. Apparently the game isn't any good, so it is probably not for the gameplay, but for the knwoing that they own a copy one of the most infamous games that's ever been released.

I have played Oblvioon a lot and I did not notice this either..

Hmm, if I had stock in Oblivion, I would be happy, just look at all the free publicity the game is getting. More sales will probably follow!

Oblivion doesn't need the publicity. It is a huge hit and already on the bookshelves of any RPG gamer around, including mine.

Ana

I'm not really an RPG gamer but I have Oblivion and 1 expansion.

I got LOTL for Christmas and I still haven't had a chance to play it. It's still all wrapped up in it's original packaging. I don't even want to open it now, I'm so disgusted by this. I think I'd rather go buy Oblivion and play that instead.

Celtic Lark ..Don't deprive yourself of playing a game you payed good money for or got as a present because of these post....

We all have opinions..& most of us have played the game..So enjoy

You should play the game..Games are meant to be played...Regardless of what is said on forums...

Happy Gaming

Dear Friends (mods and family alike) from GB......

How's everyone doing? Great I hope! I'm holding down the fort here on the northshore of New Orleans, LA.
I got an email from a "boomer" who keeps in contact with me and she mentioned that my copy of 'Limbo' might be a collector's item in the future. Since buying the game I have yet to play it or even look at it really. I have not had time to play in ages but I have kept up buying games and keeping up with what's out (for when I do get a chance) and since I also have not been on GB for ages and do not have a clue as to what she is referring, could someone please enlighten me! I tried a 'search' on GB Discussion Forum, but did not see anything. What's the "skinny", or the "411" (very out of date phrases)!
Any info whould be helpful. Thank you

Hugs... Hank and Syrahound!!!

Hanksdog, if you read this thread I merged your post into, it will explain.

Ana

I for one didn't buy the game and stated so on the previous thread that had so many ambiguous remarks as well as negative remarks against our own by the so-called developers.
"A collectors item", "you have to play the game", oh please; it's "damaged goods" and should be treated as such.

Hi Darleen - I understand your points and if I had played the game before hearing this news, that would be that. But since I haven't, I think I'll either not play it at all or put it at the back of the queue and give it some further thought. I know it's not going to make a difference to anyone else but me at this point, but it just feels wrong to me, somehow. It might not be a totally logical response but we humans are not the most logical of creatures.

I had the game well befor all this started and I will finish playing it as I am hafe way through .I got Jack Keane then Dracula so it went on hold .Its not our fault this as happened and I dont know about any one else I payed good money for this game .If I could buy it now I wouldnt but its to late so I will play it .

Dear Friends of GB..(old and new alike).....

Now I have a moral delimna!! I'm not kidding here! Truly I have a moral delimna!
Let me explain! I have not played any of the games that were mentioned here on this post. So, to me, the game will be new.... but, and this is a big but, at what point do I say "No, I do not condone what you have done whether it be somone saying "Oh Gee, (slap forhead), how could I ever have missed that". I don't think it's right to esentually say "Oh heckers, what has that got to do with me. I have a game that may be worth money in the future."
Then on the other hand, at what point do I find Tri-Synergy culpable for using work from other games? Should I really be asking for my money back on the game if they truly did not know the scope of the similarities?
Lastly... maybe I'm taking this to the extreme. But I have to wonder, what would any other game develper do if they played a game or purchased a game and then found out that the game they had sweat blood and tears over, each and every scene and nuamce, could be found in a small and maybe not so small way in another game (at least enough for others to notice). Thinking... "I gave my intelectual property to a major corporation, but little did I think that they would allow another to produce a game that I put blood and tears into....that not only mirored my game to the point that others noticed but helped those people reach an easy ends to a difficult prolem"
Many of you say that 'Limbo' had many scenes that looked like several other games...(I won't know the extent of the plagerism {right word? or not?} whether it is seems to be purposefully done or not! Is plagerism the most appopriate word?
A mistake is a mistake (One maybe two could be acceptable if they are not very blatent or close to the original(s) (again something I won't have a clue about).
I am not trying to be imflamatory or try to get others worked up in a revolt of some sort.... I am trying to guage what others know from playing the other games and seeing for themselves and figure out if it's the just and the right thing to do (for me) to ask for my money back! I can only guess how hard others work at making the "magic" happen... (although one man whose work I do know, love and respect comes to mind... Jonathan Blokes) and each of his are nothing like one another, other than the subject matter of the supernatural.

Which brings me to another question... ARE they giving money back based on this "faux-pax"??
Thanks for any input into these question I have been pondering upon reading the post.
Your with hugs and prayers...
Hank and Syra

Hi Hanksdog,
Since you bought the game in good faith not knowing anything about all of this controversy, why not relax and just play the game? None of this is your fault so why agonize over it?
What I keep wondering about is that maybe the original screens were in the "public domain" (not copyrighted) and free to anyone who wanted to use them. There are several sites around to help beginners with their games.