Is URU the Most Disappointing Game Ever?

Hi All,
If URU, IMHO, is not the most disappointing release ever, I'd hate to see number 1.
It seems like the all too familiar story, release the game unfinished to get the Christmas shoppers, delay the on-line component, patches, bugs, argh!
I returned from vacation last night to see that I'd been "invited" in, only to find that it was a "clerical" error [which apparently is different from incompetence], that invited everyone, something they were not prepared to do.
I actually got in this morning, only to get locked in the tutorial room [with another poor soul who also had to log off, and haven't been able to log back in since then.
I went back to single player to find the camera angle going crazy, unusable in 3rd person.
Too hear the sound, I have to crank up the volume extremely high. I forgot to turn it down, and Solitaire came on with a 21 gun salute!
To me, the controls constantly intrude on my immersion into the game, and yes, I've tried to re-map them.
Finally [not really, but URU has wasted enough of my time], if I wanted jumping puzzles I'd buy Tombraider.
I'm sorely tempted to try and get my money back, but I know that will be about as easy as getting this game to run right!
In summary, Ubisoft can kiss my ***, now and in all future games they release!
Thanks for listening to me rant :-}
Rich

American McGee's Alice and Prince of Persia are also good if you want jumping puzzles. You have much better control over where you jump in these games than you do in Uru.

I really don't know why they decided to "mess with the formula" for Uru. It's one thing to create a game where you have to play online to be able to explore everything and it's another to change the game by adding jumping puzzles or other "action" components. Myst and Riven were not popular due to their "action." Rather from the lack of it.

I certainly won't be wasting $50.00 on this one! Thanks for the insight Rich!
Rusty

Uru also seems lacking in focus, even compared to Myst & Riven. Perhaps we've been spoiled by Exile

Gremlin

It is true that Uru live is dissapointing at the momet, there are too many people in there and nothing much to see.

On the other hand I found Uru the game interesting enough jumps or no jumps and I found no bugs and glitches. It seems to me that most of the complaints I hear about the game engine are due to the systems that it is played on rather than the game itself.

You need a powerful PC to play the game without problems.

I bought that pre-order package just to get the DVD versions of the other games.

Actually, after installing URU and looking around a bit, I found it uninteresting and not worth the trouble of figuring out all keyboard movements. I'll probably go back to it when I've nothing else to play, but not for awhile.
Cynch

I'm not sure why I even bought it I didn't really like Riven and hated Exile It's not one that I plan on jumping into any time soon - not after all that I've read about it. I did at least install it and it does play - all I've done in run around the desert but guess I have to start over again since I had no clue how to save or even it I could at that point.

What an interesting discussion. I loved URU. I like the jumping and running puzzles. If you read the books, there are plenty of places where physical movement is involved. It's received Editor's choce from PCgamer, Gamezone, IGN, and Game of the Year from Smashgames. You can check out all the reviews at www.gamerankings.com Now I have to admit that BS3 has bored me. Too much dialogue. Oh well, I'm glad I like it. Different strokes I guess!

I was waiting to here more things said on this game. It has to have a very good rating with Boomers for me to plop down 50 bucks.Gamezone and PCgamer rate to many action games to tell me what i buy.
I read the good things said about Black mirror and bought it and was not disappointed.
I know i know nothing about what it takes to make a game,But $30 is plenty for a game you take a chance you won't like it,and if you do, you will only play it 3 or 4 times in you life.

Let's face it. This game is too evolved for many.

You can play this game with the mouse and the space key on the keyboard.

I love being in the environments of Uru. Played some very interesting (and sometimes frustrating)puzzles.
I have met many terrific people. Some wickedly smart and funny. I think most if not all the ages are beautiful, especially Kadish. I hope people don't write Uru off too quickly though. The Live portion of the game will be expanding sometime soon when they work the many kinks out. I think there are going to be some good puzzles to come, and some that you will do with other players.

Crispeto, I'm interested in your definition of the word "evolved" in the following sentence:
"Let's face it. This game is too evolved for many."
Would you mind expanding on your opinion that Uru is too "evolved" for many? My definition of the word "evolved" is that something gains a higher plane, or is superior to that which came before it. Perhaps you have another definition for the word "evolved?" My initial reaction to your post is that your opinion is that Uru (which you like very much, according to your posts) is a superior, advanced game and that somehow those who don't appreciate it are not quite so advanced. Personally, I haven't bought the game and I don't intend to buy it, but I consider that decision to be only because of my own personal preferences in the things I like in a game, instead of because the game is too "evolved" for me. I'd love to hear your reasoning for your comment.
Thanks,
Beth

Good question Beth...I am interested in the definiton also! Glynn

ROFL Beth! ...and Glynn. I don't think 'evolved' would be quite the correct term to describe it, if I can jump in here a moment. It certainly isn't beyond the intelligence of 'any' Boomer, but OTOH, it IS verrrry different from anything else we're used to up to now!

I hate to say it but I, too, had much the same opinion up until recently.... DULL, BORING, UNINTERESTING, ETC. ...when my friend, Kate... or KateVa, kind of dragged me kicking and screaming into it! ROARRRRR!

It was she who took me by the hand and got me involved in it! I think that it's worth the effort to try and get online JUST to give it a fair chance. I've created a GameBoomers Neighborhood using the Katran Shard and have ladyyves neighborhood on the Atrus Shard. THIS is when it's just starting to get fun. I think it was Laura or Syd who called it a big 'chat' room and in reality, it IS, but it's taken to a higher level than the regular chat room. This is much more than a chat room.

Everyone that I've met in it is pretty much in the same boat, except for the betas who are used to it. Even some of the greeters don't seem equipped to handle all the questions and problems yet because it's so new that some of them haven't encountered them yet.

I'm not 'urging' anyone to play it, much less buy it and I certainly get no commission on new members or whatever. I'm merely suggesting that you give it a fair chance before you dis it.

Like any regular adventure game, it is ALWAYS more fun, I think, to play it in a group! So it is with this! You can 'share' your books with someone more experienced and let them help you solve the puzzles in each age or show you how to do things. Everyone seems very helpful and I've met people from all over the world! It could ultimately be used to learn about other people and their cultures in lieu of actually traveling.

I think that this idea is in its infancy at the moment, though and it's suffering 'growing pains' from being overwhelmed. Too many people trying to get online at the same time makes it very frustrating right now.

Take some time until they adjust and correct the situation, then give it a try. Kate and I would be more than happy to show you what we've learned so far, but it's a bit unfair to discourage those who might enjoy it before they ever 'try' it. It may not be everyone's cup of tea, but check it out first hand before you decide!

Ok, I'm off the soap box. This again is just my opinion.

Yvonne

Here is one link that is very informative.

KI guide

And another one for the glossary:

Glossary

This thread tells you all the emotions that you show by using a / command

Avatar emotions

There's even a fun game within the game.... it's called 'Heek' for short! It's very similar to scissors, paper, rock. You can find the rules on how to play here:

Heek Rules

I agree, there's a lot about Uru that is novel, though there's plenty about it that's familiar too. The whole Uru enterprise is fraught with risk, especially the online Live component, and I confess that I'm extremely curious to see how it all turns out.

I too find myself returning to Uru just to wander around in it even though I've completed it. My favorites are the rotating views of the countryside while atop the Gahreeson building, the shrine in D'ni, and everything in the Eder Ages and Kadish. Although the Cleft (the first part of the game) does give you a good introduction to the game, it is definitely limited. If you've only finished the Cleft, you still ain't seen nothin' yet.

As lasanidine said, you need a powerful computer to run this game. Uru ran beautifully on my two-year-old Dell, but I suspect that's because two years ago when I bought the system I plunked money down for a really good video card.

I've been reading the reviews of the game on Amazon, and a lot of gamers who purchased from Amazon are having trouble running the game because their computers don't have the right video cards. Uru is a game you run on a gamer's computer, and that means buying the right system to begin with or else paying later to upgrade. There seems to be a tempest building because the Myst series has always appealed to casual gamers, so they expect to be able to play Uru on computers that weren't purchased primarily for playing games.

I find this especially interesting, because when the original Myst first came out, a lot of people went out and bought a CD ROM drive just to play the game. In other words, the first Myst game also required an upgrade for a lot of people. I don't remember anger from the fans about that. But there now does seem to be anger that you can't play the game properly without a powerful video card.

Will Uru (and the other 3D games that have just come out -- particularly Broken Sword Sleeping Dragon and Mysterious Journey 2) cause a revolution in hardware buying and upgrading among adventure gamers and casual gamers? Will we accept the inevitable and finally close the hardware gap with other gamers who've been playing 3D games with um, more "evolved" computers for years? Or are the brand new 3D adventure games going to sit around for a year or two waiting for the hardware-buying habits of adventure gamers to finally catch up?

As for the jumping and pushing challenges in the game -- they weren't my favorite part of Uru, but they were only a small part of the overall experience and the overall experience wowed me. There are lots of gorgeous environments in the game to explore, and that happens to be the thing I like most about gaming. I'll figure out how to be a virtual athlete for a few minutes if it gives me hours of exploration.

Here's what I mean by evolved. The Myst and Riven games have always been my favorite. The one problem I have always had with them is that they are static slideshows. I had hoped that Riven would be 3d or at least panning but it wasn't. I still loved it. Many people love these two games. Even Syberia as much as I liked it and as beautiful and great as it is, is still mostly pictures with a character that runs from spot to spot. URU has come along with some of the most beautiful 3d graphics I've ever seen and finally we get to move in realtime 3d. We even get a choice of 1st or 3rd person. If you read the books, there is lots of physical movement, running, jumping and so on. I love that my character in URU can run and jump but I actually hear complaints that people don't like it. What really cracks me up is that people compare it to an action game. Have you ever played a true action game? Not action-adventure like Tomb Raider but real action? And I can even go live and invite a friend of mine to my ages and we can go through the game together and figure out puzzles even though we don't live near each other. And we finally get to visit D'ni. We get to hear the history and stories behind it. We get to explore it and help it's symbolism. I think many wanted something close to Riven but with a different story and different pictures. This game has definitely evolved in the series and I don't think some wanted it this way. But for me? It's what I always wanted in a Myst game. I'm glad it's evolved the way it has

Weighing in with my vote-decidedly pro Uru. I think the online game is a wonderful spot to play. I went with LadyYve to her Gahreseen age to show her how to jump across to a bridge. I promptly fell into the chasm (way to go Kate!), while Yve deftly moved across to the bridge. Can't tell you how much fun it is to explore a game environment with some else. I look forward to the expansion of the Live universe and joining other Boomers in online play.
Yes, there are problems now but Cyan seems to be moving quickly to straighten out the online environment. There weren't any challenges in jumping or movement that compared to BS3, and the puzzles are interesting. Meanwhile I hope more
Boomers join us all online.

Kate (aka Katva in Atrus, Avtak in Katran)
=====
Now if I could only remember my avatar's name...

Rich,

If I had been wavering even a little about my decision not to buy this game, your post would have cemented it. There will be no U R U for this I M I gamer!

Jema

I got this game for Christmas. I wish I could comment on it, but I can't run it at all, and I have a powerful P4, but unfortunately don't have the correct video card. I've heard rumours that Cyan rushed the game out before Christmas, so that the income from sales could be used to upgrade their equipment for the online service, in order to get further revenue. Wish I'd known all this before.

I've only played the stand-alone CD game, and I admit that URU didn't thrill me at first. I thought the first two ages were rather gloomy looking and the jumping! - well that's another story!. But as I got into the final two ages, they were so beautiful that I forgot all my earlier complaints. When I finally conquered the lava pit jumps, I felt the effort was well worth while, and was sorry to see the game come to an end.

It is interesting to note that most of the complaints about Uru come from people who either did not buy the game or could not play it on their computers. Some complaints came from people who did dip into the game but did not play it through. I think that in either case the judging of an entire game is a little unfair. It is also unfair to judge Uru Live in the present situation.

I do not want to hang up on words like “evolved” but it has no higher plane connotation in it. Evolve means: work out, develop gradually, expand and I think this is what is happening here.

The Myst games evolved gradually form their beginning to culminate in Uru and Uru live and in the later we will be able if we want and if things work out as promised play together and open up new ages to explore. I am looking forward to that.

We should keep in mind that this will be the case more and more. As games get more sophisticated they will demand better hardware.

If that is the case, I don't think it's the "evolving" into a 3D game that is putting people off. There are complaints about Uru that you never heard about RealMyst. No jumping to your doom and having to start the level over in RealMyst. You could save where you wanted and never fell in a hole.

I don't think omitting a save feature or the ability to have multiple saves in the standalone version is "evolution." Someone in Glitches just had their game crash and lost their only save, because Uru only keeps one save. Other online games manage to have saves in their offline versions.


[qb] I don't think Uru is a culmination of the Myst series. It's a completely different direction. A culmination of the Myst series would be more like RealMyst, with the ability to fully explore the gameworld and with weather effects and a "living, breathing" gameworld. But it wouldn't involve falling in holes and starting back in Relto.

Some people said that Exile was more like a distant cousin of the Myst series than a Myst game. I think this is even more true of Uru.

Shorah,

Am I disappointed with Uru? yes & no.

So far, I agree with all the reviewers who gave Uru a big BIG thumbs up for the graphics, amazingly cool environments, and lovely music/sound effects and then dropped the grade a whole letter because of the gameplay.

I definitely think Uru is worth most people's money, as long as you can handle the movement. If you are still in the deciding phase, PLEASE try the demo? If you can manage that, you are fine.

Gameplay: I am currently fighting with those same lava pits and thus not as happy as I was the last time Uru came up in discussion. I have linked to Relto involuntarily dozens of times and am still trying to work out if I am not positioning my character properly at the last location or if I should be looking for a different solution. Its hard to make yourself try alternate ideas when the buildup to each effort is so long and frustrating

{thus far I am resisting the urge to use a walkthrough.}

This lava Age looks *very* cool. (So far they all look fantastic!) That fact & the thought at getting to the other side and what looks like a decent puzzler over there a la Exile keeps me trying. [Hope thats true & that I get there soon!]

Uru's controls are very good for regular moving but not as precise as what I am used to in action adventures/platfomers in the more demanding areas. The camera swings to inconvenient places on critical ledges & jumps (even switching between views). Sometimes you bounce off the small platform you were aiming for, sometimes you can't walk up an incline thats right in front of your feet. Sometimes it looks like you should be able to climb but you can't. Your character can't pull him or herself up even the smallest ledges and won't jump at them. You can't push past the smallest of pine saplings even with a path between & behind them. Makes me want to carry a camping ax with me </i>

But ..*sigh*.... I wish these improvements were real too ~ that something like them existed in Uru. Utterly lacking are such kindnesses as extendable ladders, ropes, bridges, hidden elevators etc to make the second to twenty-fifth time through an action sequence easier. For example: there's no ladder by an Uru/journey/hand cloth you jump to in the lava world. The only way out is a tricky jump, adding to the frustration & the links home.

Now Cyan themselves put a drop ladder in Riven to let you bypass a series of movements to get to the top area of the lagoon. A manhole, an extendable bridge, a lever finishing a walkway..all these and more served the same purpose. Once you had mastered something, you werent asked to annoy yourself by doing it every time (though you could if you wanted). This approach is standard even in many platformers. You get to a certain point and you can open a shortcut back to earlier locations. Maybe they thought the hand/journey save points would do this for you (Click anyone to make sure you link to that location). It helps in some places but...no.

So far it means I go back to where I'm stuck...exclusively.

& I would like to be able to wander about these beautiful worlds more easily as I conquer new challenges (as I did in Myst & Riven) but this is, in fact, highly variable. It'd be nice if you could choose the main location OR any of journey/hands you have touched...but no.

Uru simply doesnt have the feel of generosity that Riven & Myst enjoy.

It has great graphics. It has interesting, gorgous environments. I have liked the puzzles I've encountered so far [when the physical component didnt get in the way]. It lacks generosity in another way too.

Information: Would somebody kindly tell me where the names of these Ages are posted in Prime? I have hardly seen a journal. There's a short book of riddles that could teach you numbers if you didnt know them but otherwise dont seem to relate to what I am doing. I also found a discussion of how a KI works (which doesnt seem to relate to Prime beyond one automatic function but maybe I am missing something?). I wouldn't know Relto *is* Relto if I had not heard the name from other players, seen screenshots etc. To whatever extent I shielded myself from spoilers, to that extent I lack even basic knowledge about each place. Why no journal entries describing & naming each place as in Myst? Why no written clues?

Saying you can get help in UruLive doesnt fix the fact of the initial problem, nor does it help those in Prime without broadband. Live assistance makes some puzzles much easier yes, but others could still use a drop ladder or a extendable bridge IMHO.

Consider what Kateva said a bit ago. She went to show someone how to make a tricky jump and fell down herself but happily her friend made the jump. Thing is..after making that particular jump, she couldnt negate the need for it in exploring that area. Not for herself or anyone else.

Why make a puzzle/exploration game dependent on physically difficult challenges? I dont mind a physical action component as long as my reflexes arent the deciding factor on whether I can finish the game. Actually extra puzzles for those who would like an alternate non-jumpy route would make Uru even more wonderful. (Especially for me, I'd get more puzzles that way. I'd try them all

My mother couldnt stand all my ooooOOooo's and AAAhhhhhss and has started. She says she absolutely loves the first stage, which is the desert (its in the demo). She is having a bit of trouble with the bridges/ledges though and is no hurry to move on.

I definitely recommend Uru as a purchase for those who have: quick fingers &/or a helpful teenager handy, broadband, and hardware that exceeds the minimum by a comfortable margin.

It may be "E" rated, but unlike Myst, Uru doesnt seem to have been made for "everybody" to play.

At least not yet. IMHO It could be made that way with just a few, comparatively minor changes ** The fact that Uru is a work in progress gives me hope for the future.

**If they made extra pages to find for ladders & ropes and such, maybe added on a non-physical setting or let these be won by puzzling?

After all, I can upgrade my machine as resources allow. I can't upgrade my reflexes. All I can do is keep trying. Hopefully Cyan will have pity on me, my mom, my young son (his platformer skills are increasing but has trouble keeping up with what he has to punch on the keyboard), and others like us soon.

I have hesitated to say anything about Uru. Those who are already a part of the magical experience of UruLive in particular feel understandably protective about the basis of their new world but I hope they will also respect that 1) I *AM* a major Myst fan 2) Even Atrus would expect me to be honest. 3) I am pointing out the lovely roses as well as the beetle bugs


Susan <img border="0" alt="" title="" src="graemlins/woozy.gif" />

There's quite a difference between buying a new computer - especially a new gaming computer - and buying a new CD drive.

Quote:

But there now does seem to be anger that you can't play the game properly without a powerful video card.

And a new processor, which requires a new motherboard...
It's often not just a simple upgrade of one part of the system. It's unlikely that a computer that is 2 years old or older will be fast enough to play the game with enough "extras" to "wow" the player. Even if you only want to add a new video card, that may mean you need another fan in the case and a more powerful power supply. Most people aren't able to put these things in themselves. Even people with brand new computers won't be able to play it if they bought a system with an onboard video card and no AGP slot.

It was never as difficult to install a new CD drive. Even computers without an IDE slot that could support a CD drive could be made to use a CD drive by adding a controller card. No need for extra fans. No worry about whether your motherboard could support the added load of a demanding new video card. No worry about whether your motherboard had the correct slot. Controller cards were made for both ISA and PCI slots. And CD drives could be used for other non-gaming applications as well, which helped justify spending money on them.

Quote:

Will Uru (and the other 3D games that have just come out -- particularly Broken Sword Sleeping Dragon and Mysterious Journey 2) cause a revolution in hardware buying and upgrading among adventure gamers and casual gamers? Will we accept the inevitable and finally close the hardware gap with other gamers who've been playing 3D games with um, more "evolved" computers for years? Or are the brand new 3D adventure games going to sit around for a year or two waiting for the hardware-buying habits of adventure gamers to finally catch up?

Are casual gamers prepared to drop around $1000 on a new gaming computer in these economic times? For something that is little more than an occasional hobby? I doubt it. We here at Gameboomers may consider it because we're gamers, albeit adventure gamers.

Quote:

As for the jumping and pushing challenges in the game -- they weren't my favorite part of Uru

I don't think anyone likes them. The game controls don't seem to have been made with jumping puzzles in mind. IMO the best interface for jumping puzzles is follow-cam, where you're behind the character and can line up jumps, but can see your feet. And most games with jumping puzzles have a save feature. Even a temporary "quicksave" would have been an improvement in Uru. I'm still hoping they'll come up with a patch, but right now I'm sure they're overwhelmed with getting the online version working.

Speaking of which, if someone hasn't bought the game and is mainly interested in exploring D'Ni online, why buy it now? I don't see any reason not to wait until they get the online version working properly.

Nice post, Salar.

Glad you decided to share your thoughts.

3d graphics, complete movement, physical puzzles, online gaming with a community, believe me the Myst series has evolved within itself. Not that everyone likes it but it has evolved. Also, a workable motherboard is about $65 and a Ti4200 vid card is about $69. An AMD 2500 is about $90 so the upgrades arn't really that steep. I put my whole system together for less than $500 and that includes everything.

I think the automatic save feature and popping beck to Relto were designed with Uru Live in mind. They could have made a separate disk for the Uru live controls but than you would not have been able to import your own game into the Live Part.

When I used the word evolve I meant that the first person point a click evolved into a phase where games could actually meet in each others games and play together.

Salar-sorry you think I was talking about a tricky jump. It was actually a fairly basic one-I laughed when I fell back to Relto. I was so busy talking that I missed it. However, since there is a Journey Cloth by the more difficult spots (including the one I flubbed and the dreaded Lava Jump) you don't have to replay much to return.
That said, I think more of a saving ability would be a great plus for us all.
Anytime you want me to throw myself off a cliff in your age, just contact me in Live.
Kate
++++++
Katva in Atrus #02576201

Since evolution is usually defined as the shaping of a species by changes in its environment, I have to wonder how the environment of adventure games (and gamers) changed to encourage the development of something like URU.

Were point and click adventurers really demanding an online experience? Really demanding the opportunity to meet in each other's game? Some have clearly embraced the experience while others, myself included, have said, "Umm, no thanks."

Good Evening,

I certainly didn't mean to insult or question anyones opinion or enjoyment of URU in my original post! I was just stating my feelings toward the entire roll-out process.
It's become all to acceptable in PC gaming to prematurely release games, then start the patch nonsense. I'm sure our console brethren would not sit still for all the "update your drivers, download the patch, run in compatability mode" stuff that we seem to take for granted.
When I purchased the game, the on-line aspect was not available to me as stated. I was not charged "beta" dollars; they received my entire $50. URU is not the first game released like this, nor will it be the last, it's still however, not right.
Thanks All,
Rich

I'm still waiting to read some sort of justification of the $50.00 pricetag. After everything I have read about this game, I think I will be waiting a long time for that.
Rusty

PS: Sitting in GameBoomers Neighborhood right now if anyone wants to join the hood<g>
Kate

I do not remember saying anything about evolution as such. I used the verb to evolve.

But if you want to introduce environmental influence, it is probable that the expectations of the gaming community exerts an influence on the game design as a whole but does not necessarily fulfill individual desires.

As for the price of the game, it is true that it is expensive but when I bought it I used the $10.00 off capon and with the game I go the Myst 10th Anniversary DVD Package. I think that was a very good buy.

Hmm, OK. Evolve is usually defined as a gradual change. The changes in URU seem a bit more than gradual. More like a sport. Whether particular mutation will thrive or become a cul-de-sac remains to be seen.

That is, will it be the next Sims or the next Sims Online?

Ladies and gentlemen, place your bets.

I did the same thing, lasanidine! Being as the Myst 10th anniv. DVD sells for $20 all on its own and the $10 discount.... that brings the price of URU down to $20! I paid more for the newer than that! ...including BS3!

I think that's quite a savings!

Yvonne

Yes, I got that deal too. 39.99 for Uru & Myst 10th Anniversary dvd trilogy. Made me happy! I didnt even mind getting it a bit late under those conditions.

KateVa! If I ever make it into UruLive I will remember to contact you cliffside.

Yes, I know that particular jump isnt that bad (at least by comparison. I only had to try it half a dozen times instead of ..say...nah I wont say how many times I've jumped that lava pit LOL).

My point is that like many demanding physical bits in Uru
1) you cant avoid it ~ even after you've done it the first time
2) You link back to whatever challenge is closest to the last journey cloth.

That particular location leaves you trying to jump forward or trying to jump back (I havent managed going backwards at that spot even yet)
& stuck trying it every time you link in until you succeed.

(Mind you the view at that spot is breath-taking so it takes awhile to care)

You will make me a very happy person tonight if you can tell me of a way to link to the other journey locations &/or the beginning spot at will. Then I could explore other bits of an Age when I'm stuck, instead of exploring the zen of stuckness

But if this isnt currently an option, I feel sure it could be done. Likewise multiple save slots, added ladders etc.

Uru has many great elements (& a lot more going for it in Live) but it could be even better. Since its a "living" organism it is open to ongoing change. I am rooting for it "evolving" in such directions.

Shorah B'shehmtee!

Susan

It is amazing to me that a gorup of people who call themselves Adventure Players are so resistant to changes and new adventures.

Believe me there are a lot of changes coming our way. My son is in this busyness and I can tell you for sure that Uru and Uru Live is not going to be a one shot in the dark thing.

Maybe some of us are just resistant to ill-considered design choices masquerading as something new and better.

As I said, Ladies and Gentlemen, place your bets.

Lasadine, I know console games moved to 3D years ago. I hear you. "Its about time" computer games caught up, yes? You may well be right that many future adventure games may insist on it. I just resist the notion that this "improvement" is inevitable or required.


The fact that its rare to see anything else now on a game box doesnt mean that 2d wasnt good fun. It doesnt even mean that you couldn't put out a great 2d game & do well. (Kudos to Nintendo for encouraging a number of discontinued 2D titles back into the light of day on the GBA.)

I listened to some young'uns on a forum recently. They were wow-ed by how much fun the "old" 2D games (GBA releases of Super Mario titles, Donkey Kong Country, Castlevania) turned out to be & how they needed a different reflex style etc.

The change from 2D to 3D was simply that... change. There are good points to each, even in platformers. 3D rules because its the new toy.

Companies are competing with each other to be cutting edge. Mags & techs (the resident experts in these fields) love to see the new stuff and often tell the developers (and us) thats what "we" want. Well, we do...when it works. What we want most is a fun game like unto yore (at least in said funness)... but different in some way (or else we'd be replaying the exact same thing).

IMHO the public would probably have preferred a perfected older style Donkey Kong 4 to the much clunkier DK64 they got... as long as the gaming media didnt slice and dice it for NOT using the then new 3D options available.(DK64 was a fun game mind you, but much harder to control, camera didnt always cooperate etc. Its an example from some years back, but valid). NOW they could do a wonderful job with that title, instead of a reasonably good one.

There has been pressure in the console market to put the newest bells and whistles out before they've got 'em tuned. So a few years later, your ears quit ringing, you get some great melodies, & everybody in the biz says wasnt it just wonderful that we made such advances...but by then the development groups are feeling the pressure to upgrade the belfry again

This has been happening in the PC biz too. Many pc bestsellers were surprises back in the day. Not all were the graphic goldmines of their time. But that hasnt kept reviewers from projecting console expectations on to pc titles generally & adventure games in particular (which most of them havent been playing & know little about). 3D is now the norm in fps, sports, sims, and strategy games. Adventure gaming seems like the natural next wave from where they sit. Can't blame some developers from thinking they need to catch it. I hope they don't all think so. Many puzzlers aren't big on surfing. <img border="0" alt="" title="" src="graemlins/woozy.gif" />

I dont think adventure gaming actually requires this jump to improve. PC adventure gamers include many people who won't touch a console with ten foot flaming shishkabob. A bunch of jumping around isn't everyone's cup of tea. It might even kill this genre to force too many crossover gaming elements.

Mind you, if the "new" style of adventure is done more like realMyst, I can see many adjusting to the idea easily enough. But good 2D games could still turn up & do well if well done. I know I'd play 'em

Sometimes change really is progress. Sometimes not.

May adventure games survive whatever changes come!

Happy New Year to you too

Susan,

If I understand you correctly, you can always link to the beginning by clicking on the 'picture' on the inside page......... not the journey cloth.

Yvonne

[/QUOTE]It is amazing to me that a gorup of people who call themselves Adventure Players are so resistant to changes and new adventures.

I call myself an adventure gamer, and I am not "resistant to change" I say "To each his own" For the gamers who like "Uru"...great! For those who don't want to buy/play it because it sounds too "Glitchy" and obviously it's a pain to get into it on line...That should be great too! I am sure that when/if y'all get tired of "hanging" off that cliff...we [other adventure ~boomers] will be glad to toss you a rope! {{{Hugs}}} Glynn

Well I love URU and haven't had any real issues at all. I can't wait til they update live with a whole new age. Neverending Myst - Mmmmmmm mmm, I love it!

The game is not glitchy at all, I did not find any bugs. It is just most systems are not updated enough to play it. You need a good video card and updated drivers.

As for the on line game it is sitll in the Beta phase and they are not charging for it.

I will look for that option, Ladyvve. Thanks

All I noticed opening the book was the cloth square and empty space on the other side. Even if thats all I still see, I will try clicking where it was.

'Course this means its already holding two places as an option. Several more squares and you could go to any of the locations you've found. Now that would be *very* good.

Susan

ROFL Susan! You can tell when there are additional pages by checking the lower right hand corner to see if it's turned up.... leaves a triangular piece of the next page showing.

Feel free to contact me online.

Good Luck!

Yvonne

ladyyve ID# 01404741 <Atrus>
Y've ID# 00404847 <Katran>

I appreciate the tip. I think I have a contender for a new DOH moment

I had noticed the different pages on the 2 reading books. I just didnt see it on the linking book.

I am not on live (only have dialup) but I might very well beg a hint or two. Thanks for the offer!

Crispeto, thank you for explaining your definition of "evolved." I now understand that you mean the software and game processes have evolved so that we can wander new worlds together, etc. This is a relief to me, because my own definition of evolved (within your previous statement) would mean that it had gone beyond the intelligence of those that don't appreciate it, and that isn't the case. I know now that you didn't mean it that way, though, so I appreciate the fact that you answered my question.

I understand the value of evolving concepts so that there is something different and new in computer games to offer to those who are not satisfied with the way things have been and the way things are. I played In Memoriam, an online mystery game that utilizes the Internet for gameplay but also is played from a CD-ROM and utilizes e-mail, and I enjoyed it. I don't consider the differences that are evident in In Memoriam to be an evolution in game playing, but rather an offshoot from traditional gaming that may or may not grow into something that lasts. I consider Uru to be in that category, as well. Personally, I hope to see more of this type of game, but I can understand why many people wouldn't consider it their cup of tea, because it (In Memoriam) had a little bit of arcade in it and required the player to be online during play. I don't consider those other players to be resistant to change or unworthy to call themselves "adventure gamers" just because they would prefer to play games that don't use the Internet. I just consider them players who prefer a different type of game. Now, within their own game preferences they may embrace changes that improve the game experience. For instance, an adventure game might end up using virtual reality yet would not include any action sequences or jumping, and that might fit in with that player's vision of how they would like to see computer games evolve.

It's a gamble as to whether Uru-type online games will survive or not; they are not definitely going to become the standard in PC gaming, and could just be only the next new thing on the way to the next new standard. Conversely, games like Uru could fix all of their online problems and they may become the standard type of game when most players have upgraded their computers enough to use them. I guess the sales for Uru will tell us more and we will see later, maybe in a few years, how well it will succeed as the next progression in computer game technology. Sierra Online tried online gaming several years ago and it failed miserably; however, most people were not on the Internet at that time and didn't understand it. It's entirely possible that this time around online gaming could be the next big thing, and maybe they will offer games that don't require any action or jumping and just involve wandering around a nice environment solving puzzles, and that would probaly please a lot of the people who are put off by Uru's jumping, etc. As I said previously, In Memoriam is an online game concept and I really enjoyed it, and I hope to see more of it. Even if we do enjoy a game, it doesn't help to ignore the possible pitfalls of an online game. For instance, In Memoriam requires the use of websites for information, and you have to use that exact website to get the information, like a man's name, so you can't just look up the information anywhere online. This can be a real problem in the future if they don't keep up the websites and that information is lost. It wouldn't be nearly as fun to look at the information on a walkthrough instead of finding it on your own during gameplay. They could have avoided that if they would have asked questions that could be answered by research of any websites instead of ones they manufactured, and hopefully if they make a sequel they will use that idea. I think that a lot of people who bought Uru and are upset by it felt that the advertising on the box promised an online world that didn't yet exist in useable condition for everyone who bought the game. If Uru doesn't sell quite as well as the publishers hope, will the online gaming world still be there two years from now with new environments, etc. as the game box promises? I think this is a question the average person would ask before they pay $50 for a game that they hope to play online (assuming they don't have a coupon). I don't think the question is unreasonable. I also think that it isn't unreasonable to be upset when a game will not work with your video card, even when your computer is a gaming computer. A game may work fine for one person's computer, but that doesn't mean that the game has no bugs and that everyone else's computer specs aren't high enough for the game; it may just mean that it worked with one video card and has a bug for another video card. I have bought gaming computers (with my husband moaning in the background from the cost) for almost 20 years now. I could buy a new gaming computer tomorrow with high specs and that doesn't mean that I won't go out and buy another brand new game and find that it won't work on my computer with my sound or video card. I think it is normal to be upset about that sort of disappointment, and I think the company that produced the game should have worked harder to make sure that didn't happen, and if they find out later about it they should make a patch for it.

I remember when all games were linear text games, and people complained when the mouse came out and it was point and click, because they liked typing out the commands. I do consider this evolution because it took gaming in a direction that improved it in most ways. We could tell that it was an evolution to a better thing because most of the text games died out. Of course, some of us still enjoy a text game because we've always liked them, but we still enjoy the mouse. I don't consider Uru's changes to be an evolution to the next thing because I don't think it is better than what we have now and I don't think it will replace what we have now. If they perfect it and most computers are upgraded to use it and there are lots of different games available that use the technology, I may change my mind.

I didn't criticize the game in my original post, but asked Crispeto to define his/her use of the word "evolved." I don't have to play the game to know that it won't work on my system and that I'm afraid that the online thing won't last with it, so I choose to wait to see if I will ever buy it. I do think it is perfectly fair to discuss the game and point out it's bad points and if this is discouraging someone from buying it, then so be it. If our comments are truthful, there is no reason why we can't voice them here, since the site is here for the purpose of discussing games and helping each other decide if we want to play them and to review them if we choose. Others are able to give their pro-Uru standpoint, so there is equal time for both sides.
Happy gaming,
Beth

Very good response, Beth. Although some may say Uru has no "bugs", there certainly ARE problems with people like me whose DVD/CD player obviously is not one that the game "likes". Am I supposed to get a new computer?? I think not. Mine's only a year old. And it sure does have all the "specs" it's supposed to have. But it won't even install! Am I disappointed? You betcha! But now that I hear all these comments about jumps and such, I'm not sure I'll enjoy it if I ever get it to run. And just because I don't want to run and jump, etc, does NOT mean I'm not willing to move forward. I just know what I like, and what I don't.

Wow, this is a great discussion--tho' it seems to have turned into "Uru as the future of adventure games, yes or no? Support your answer."

I find the question of games that are playable by the general public vs. games that require specialised equipment an intersting one. Like many others MYST was the first game I played. I played it because it looked neat and I had recently purchased a computer that would run it. The idea of a computer customized for gaming was...well, it never even crossed my mind as something that anyone would want. 5 years later, that's changed. But I still think that there needs to be a balance between games that "anyone" could just pop in and play and games that require special systems. If you only cater to those who already game, you're....thinning the gene pool, so to speak.

And I often think that developers, manufacturers, whoever aren't completely honest about what's required to run a game in a satisfying way. I don't know how many games I've played that my system had way more than the "minimum requirements," even way more than the optimal, that still were choppy and glitchy. Sure, there might be ways to fix that, but is the casual gamer going to want to go through that? Instead of gaining a potential new customer, who discovers the wonders of gaming (of any kind), the misinformation is just frustrating and off-putting.

I was asked to beta test Uru, but I could never get it to function (this was on my old system). I was told, "you don't have the requirements," even though at the time the publicized requirements were well within my capabilities. Okay,things change, but it was still frustrating!! When I got my new machine, the first thing I did was download the demo. It took 3 hours and it still wouldn't install. For what that's worth.

I personally am not particularly interested in the MMO gaming experience, and I've been afraid that this would be the only MYST experience available in time. I also...this is another place where I think the developers aren't thinking really clearly, in that they require a DSL. Where I live, there is no DSL provider. But other on-line games don't require it. My brother-in-law plays Everquest on a dial-up and is quite satisfied.

I guess I'm babbling. But one thing I think about a lot is how, when you work in a specialized environment among a group with specialized skills, it's easy to lose track of the fact that it IS specialized: that what you take for granted just doesn't even matter to some people. But that doesn't mean they couldn't be interested. I work in radio, and lots of times the head of production gets so hung up on "tape noise" in his promotional material that he loses track of the fact that the material is incoherent. That's what bothers people, not the noise that they can't even hear because their ears aren't attuned to it.

okay, 'nuff.

WW

I guess you're supposed to get a new CD drive. The question is, which one? It's not like they list the compatible drives on the box or on their website. Besides, it's stupid to expect people to get a new drive every time you find a game where the copy "protection" doesn't like your current drive.

You can play Active Worlds on dialup too. It surprises me how much can be piped down a skinny telephone cord!

Uru is the most graphically intensive MMO ever attempted according to Bicardi Jim's review (and what others have said). Thats what makes it broadband intensive

btw Jim's UruLive review is here:
http://www.adventuregamers.com/display.php?id=330&p=1

for those who havent seen it yet.

I have heard some beta testers say they kept playing Uru after losing dsl temporarily (while moving, until next months allotment etc) and that it ran okay ~ if they had reasonably fast dialup connection, closer to that actual 56K than the 20-30 I usually see AND if they had the updates already. When it came time to update again, life wasnt so good.

I think you make some very good points too, Wysewomon

Susan

IMHO I believe without change the genre will gradually stagnate.

With too much change it will disappear.

I am still waiting for a game which features a fully 3D, fully explorable environment, good puzzles and a compelling story.

Like, say, a spy mission on the Hindenberg.

With too much change it wouldnt be an adventure game. Im talking keeping the elements that make an adventure game an adventure game while improving on things that should evolve.

Absolutely.

As for evolving, jumping puzzles and limited save points (not that there are any major adventures that currently feature such things) don't strike me as adventure game elements that should evolve. They strike me as elements that should be sent home to the consoles where they rightfully belong.

First of all, I just want to say that I'm really happy that we can all discuss this in an intelligent way. I admit that in my first post in this thread I was a little upset, but Crispeto was really kind in reply and it went a long way to help me understand that it's just a game we're talking about, and I am proud that we're able to do that here in a safe environment.

I think there are some really good points here. I especially am in agreement about specialization versus availability to the masses, and I think that is what the Nancy Drew games have done well. They are interesting, they are based on a known character with storylines that differ but with the same engine and (mostly) the same graphics, they are affordable and they run well. They always install immediately and play immediately on my computer. I think that's why they are so successful (that and the fact that there are few games that are made to specifically attract girls, and so they are special in that way). When they don't spend enough time on the story, it shows (Haunted Carousel) and when they take the time to build a great game, it shows (Ghost Dogs and DODI). My point is that the average person can buy the game and play it and enjoy it. There were advertisements in Entertainment Weekly for Uru (HUGE, beautiful ads) that just talked about adventuring, and that's it. I think the average person would go out and buy the game and it wouldn't work. They might hesitate to go out and buy another adventure game or another game by Ubi, etc. in the future because of it. The computer game companies want the masses to buy games, but in a lot of instances they aren't willing to make public and accessible the information about the real equipment and specs needed to run the game. They haven't gone out of their way to say on the box that the online gaming world is not ready for everyone to be in it easily, and I'm sure that frustrates many. I just think it's a shame they didn't keep the game for another six months and work on all of that before they released it. If they needed the money from sales before they could get the online world ready, then it seems that they were being dishonest about it, because I don't think it says you can maybe get on a Beta version of an online world on the box.
Beth

SO, what do people think would constitute "evolution" for the adventure game? And by that I mean, gradual change that improves the species without making it into another species? It seems to me like everyone has different ideas about this.

I'd like to see deeper and more complex plots with more carefully integrated puzzles, a better balance of types of puzzles. But I think the more action sequences are added the less adventure-y a game gets. I keep going back to, my standards for gaming are Riven, TLJ and Gabriel Knight. More like that but deeper. And Less focus on bells and whistles unless they actually work!

WW

Well, let me try to give my opinion on this - my opinions only.

There's a couple of issues going on
- Uru Live isn't ready, and it wasn't clear on the box it wasn't. Agreed. The live part is in beta, so if you don't want to be part of the (free) beta, I don't think one should play. If being part of a beta is fun for you, register for the Uru Live Prologue, if you have broadband. I think being in the live beta is kind of fun, but then again, I was in the other Uru beta (the one we couldn't talk about), from January to November! It's rather fun to affect the course of a game. That's what I think.

- machine specs. I think these are fine, completely OK, and specs are clear on the box and on websites. The only issue is that it's a Myst series games and people aren't used to it, so some folks don't read the specs or don't believe them. The game runs on oodles and oodles of graphics cards, but they have to be on the newer side, and not the Intel graphics chip set. Intel is a minor player in the graphics industry. If you want to do a big, gorgeous 3D game, you won't need a gamers machine per se, but you will need a machine with pretty decent specs and a decent graphics card. Uru runs on my 1.2GH machine, with it's Geforce 4 TI4200 card, and 640MB of memory, and Win XP. That's a fairly medium end machine.

- the copy protection thing and some drives. That's a problem - no comments.

- Is Uru an adventure game.
Here's the thing, and we talked about this a lot in the beta, and some Cyan folks talked about it too. Here is what I think Cyan would reply - my words not theirs, based on all that forum chit-chat. I'm not quoting, I'm summarizing and putting my spin on it. Uru is put in the adventure game genre, in the stores, and on websites, but Cyan is not concerned if it's a "pure" adventure game. It's not that they don't want us to love the game (they care about that a whole lot), but they don't care about following the strict adventure game genre rules. So, if you say it's not a "pure" adventure game, Cyan will agree with you. They will also say that, when they did Myst, adventure games were mostly 3rd person, not 1st person, and most of the other games used inventory. In Myst they did the kind of game they wanted, and in Uru they also did the kind of game they wanted. It's not that they aren't listening to people (they listened to us a lot in the beta, particularly with regards to making the action stuff easier), but they are doing the game they want to do. They aren't caving into popular pressure - they are doing the kind of game they want to do. I'm not all that crazy about the action stuff myself, but I'm starting to make my peace with it. Who knows, after this, I might actually be able to attempt Tron 2.0!

On game genres - when I post on Myst Community, there is a section of the forum where people talk about the other types of games they like. Adventure games are a small minority. I think adventure gamers like Myst, but as far as I can tell, people get into Myst who like other types of games, particularly the younger players who all like RPGs, both on PCs and on consoles (Those Final Fantasy games are hot). They also like games with some action elements. The younger gamers on MC don't seem to make the distinctions between adventure games and other games - if it's a game they like they play it. They either only play the Myst series games or they play all sorts of games, with a prepoderance of non Adventure games. Just a thought on who Uru is trying to attract. It's not that they don't want to appeal to adventure gamers, but I don't think it's only adventure gamers that they are targeting. Incidentally, having other types of gamers play Uru can be a humbling experience. I know of action gamers who breezed throught the puzzles on Uru, even the hard logic puzzles!