Subtitles

Please can someone explain why some games have only sections with subtitles? I'm playing Culpa Innata and some speech has subtitles and some does not. Can anyone explain? I'm not deaf but I would be cross if I was

Important lines required to progress in the game has subtitles, the rest do not.

Ana

I can see what you'r saying Ana but the line about the bobby pin was not subtitled. It just seems strange because it just makes life harder for any one who is deaf. I know we have some deaf GB'ers and they have written here that playing games helps them to keep in touch with the hearing world.

Really? I didn't know that? I thought that if a game has subtitles it has for everything...

Movies do not have subtitles for everything either if you are watching a foreign film.

There are other games that do not have subtitles at all.

Ana

Even people who can normally hear fine in real life may have problems hearing over the music, or making out what a character is saying if he speaks with an unfamiliar accent.

That's true... I always but the subtitles on in every game i play in case i don't understand something... I have seen subtitles that even the environment noises are being written... That's way i misunderstood i think...

I'm a big fan of subtitles too. Often they aren't present during cut scenes, and I wish they were.

If a developer has spent a lot of time working on a character's lip sync, I can see why they would want to leave off the subtitles because people are reading the subtitles instead of admiring the lip sync. Or sometimes, I suppose that subtitles might seem to disrupt a game's atmosphere. But I'd much rather have the subtitles anyway.

Well said Becky. My partner is getting very deaf so it's " no subtitles = no watch" He plays Civilisation which does not need subtitles.

I still like sub titles even if I can understand what they are saying

Ditto, Dragon, I like the subtitles just in case I miss hearing what they say. I am very visual and I just don't pay as much attention to hearing as I do seeing the words. Only problem is that I am looking at words when something happens that I need or want to see!

Koalanut

Subtitles are also really helpful if you find yourself playing far into the night/morning and don't want to wake up your wife (Or new, incredibly beautiful, grand-daughter)

Hi

I'm a big "sub-title" fan too

In fact I'd rather have text and no speech than the other way round

Cheers.

Mad

I have moderate hearing loss. It can be difficult in some games to catch everything being said over music and heavy ambient sound effects (I tend to turn those way down in options when I can if they are not crucial to game play). Sometimes the character's voice/accent can be a little annoying, distracting or make it difficult to discern exactly what is being said as well. So needless to say I am huge fan of subtitles!! I wish every game had them. Most modern ones have that option, but older ones don't.

I recently ventured back into the world of the original Myst.
A great deal of that game is so dependent on hearing precisely the correct sounds and tones. It made me think that might be unfair for those who are deaf or have severe hearing disabilities.

I like the game having subtitles for everything (cut scenes, original story etc). I think that without subtitles the game is nude!

My hearing is fine, yet I like subtitles in a game. Without them it's so easy to miss a subtle hint in the conversation. I would really appreciate subtitles in tone based puzzles, because I'm completely tone deaf!


Bernard

I also prefer subtitles in games and movies even though my hearing is fine. Alot of this has to do with the fact that I have dogs and at times their barking causes me to miss important conversations in games as well as in movies,

Regards,

Barry

I like the game having subtitles and for me that not understand very well english that subtitles are very essential.

When the game not have subtitles i have very dificulty for understand..
For me always yes for subtitles

Love Maria

I, too, am a very big fan of subtitles and wish they would be on all the scenes. Ghostly voices typically use a reverb or echo quality to add eerieness. That makes it virtually impossible for me to understand what is being said. Beyond the Spirit's Eye is a good example. I know I missed a great deal of the plot just because I couldn't understand what was being said in the cut scenes. I'm currently playing (and LOVING) Lost Crown but I fervently wish I could understand what the various ghosts are saying. Although their words are probably not vital to the overall game play, they would add a dimension.

So, put me down as a "YES! YES!" for subtitles.

Yep, another Huge Fan of subtitles here too. I always have them on in games and in movies. I can hear one on one conversations just fine but add in the background music and ambient sounds (which I love) and a lot of the conversation can be lost to me.

I also really love it when the options include being able to adjust speech volume separately from the other sound.

Well, it seems that the vote is in favour of sub-titles.

I vote for subtitles for everything in adventures.

i remember too many years ago in gK-2. Gabe had some sort of Texan accent i think or whatever
He drawled something that had important to the gameplay but i couldn't make it out.i replayed that part 12 times but still couldn't understand it.

Definetly subtitles. I always use them.

Does anybody know if Cameron Files Secret at Loch Ness and Cameron Files 2 Pharaoh's Curse are there any subtitles patches you can download anywhere?


jay

Sorry jay, I do not know of a Subtitle patch for these games.

Ana

As far as I know, jay - there's none.

Heh, I just started playing Culpa Innata too, and the minimal subtitles are REALLY annoying! How many people here actually listen to these games?? I not only need subtitles, but I need an interface that allows me to click through the subtitles. Even when Culpa Innata has subtitles, if you click, you don't get to see the rest of the conversation. That means you have to listen to them ramble on forever. It doesn't help that CI has some really, really terrible dialogue. And tons of pointless dialogue. Can someone explain to me the point of the first "interview" you do with the Patel guy?!? Is there some way to get it right, or wrong, and what does it matter if you do? It just seemed like a complete waste of time.

It should be an adventure game commandment:

Thou shalt have subtitles, and thou shalt allow the player to click through them.

But, and I'm really interested in hearing this so I'll ask again, how many people actually listen to the dialogue in adventure games?

Oh! And this is my first post!

Hi cl0vis and welcome to GameBoomers!

That's an interesting avatar.

I don't know how many people listen to the dialogues, but I would think it's a high percentage, as the dialogues often have clues in them, not to mention plot and character development.

Clovis, it was Cula Innata, that drove me to start this thread. I am beginning to lose interest in this game, mainly because of trying to hear what she is saying when there are no subtitles.
It appears that there are many reasons for wanting full subtitles such as, hearing impairment, not waking others and English as a second langaue. Not to mention barking dogs
Lets hope the developers are reading this

yep Im for sub titles

If you have a suggestion for a developer, I would advise to write them direct.

Ana

I do - as long as the story draws me in, the dialogue is well-written, and the voice acting is bearable. If a game falls down on any of those points then I'll be speed-reading and click-click-clicking past great screeds of it.

I didn't click-click past any of Culpa Innata's dialogue, I thought it was excellent.

I very rarely listen to the dialogue as I am usually listening to the television while I play, or am on the phone. I love to multi-task..... That is why I LOVE subtitles and turn them on in every game where they are available.

Becky, you misunderstood. Of course, I pay very close attention to the dialogue :-) However, I like to quickly read it. Especially when it's just useless nonsense; which, unfortunately, is often. So I quickly skim the dialogue and jump to the next bit, essentially ignoring the person talking.

So, my question is, to be people actually take the time to listen to the audio, instead of reading it themselves? 90% of the voice acting is terrible in AGs. I just couldn't handle listening to it all :-)

old lady: Well, luckily, Culpa Innata is one of the first AGs that I've played in awhile that doesn't have subtitles. Culpa Innata also has a box to turn Anti-aliasing on, but, I swear, it does nothing. The game is just as jaggy and ugly with or without it.

On the avatar: Thanks! It's a picture of my wife's dilated eye after an eye examination. The only thing I don't like is that some people might think it is a drug reference, which it is not. It's just a cool picture that turned out perfectly.

Rushes: Really? I'm finding Culpa Innata's dialogue to be almost unbearable; especially the player-character's droning thoughts. "That's my big plant. I should water it more often. blah blah blah". Is she supposed to be drugged or something??

Clovis,

It's good to hear different comments about adventure games.
Just wondered... did you find any good thing about or anything you enjoyed in adventure games?

Hi, cl0vis

To GameBoomers

I don't pay much attention to voices in a game...For me it so trivial...I thought Patel was a waste of time in the game oF Culpa....But, You have to realize every developer... See's their reason for putting in certain things to the game...Some people might like something more involved...Like interrogation...Which I thought had alot to do with the <Who Done It Thing>

MaG, haha! Yeah, I'm being pretty negative. I was enthralled with AGs back in the Sierra Quest era. Since then gaming has stepped forward, and, somewhat thanks to Myst, AGs have stepped back. That said, I really enjoyed Syberia (nice graphics, good storyline, good puzzles), and The Longest Journey. I've played adventure games intermittently recently, but just bought a whole bunch at once: Sam and Max Season I, Holmes: Nemesis, Culpa Innata, and the "Adventure Collection" (Tunguska, Nibiru, Dead Reefs, Mysterious Island, and Keepsake).

I've enjoyed some of the humor of Sam and Max. I wish that game had funny death scenes a la Space Quest though. Don't you sometimes wanna' see Max injured?

I'm enjoying Tunguska, but I just keep thinking some things could better. At first the nostalgic game play was fun, but some of the later puzzles seemed arbitrary and silly.

And Culpa Innata is really disappointing me. I keep hoping the story picks up enough to save it from a slew of technical/gameplay/graphics issues. Seriously, those character models are the creepiest things I've seen since The Polar Express. Go to the wiki and search for "Uncanny Valley". Culpa Innata is definitely IN the valley.

My main problem is that in the Quest Era adventure games were THE best games out there for the PC. They aren't now, but really could be. I just see a genre that is stagnant, and shouldn't be. I want to play an adventure game in a beautiful 3D world like Oblivion. Oblivion was great, but could have been improved greatly by having adventure game style elements involved. It really was kinduv' a dumb game; besides building your character you just walked around, killed creature X and returned to where the mission started. Meh.

Are there some boomers here who have played games like Oblivion and thought: wow! think of an AG in a world like this! That's why I'm kinduv' negative. That game doesn't exist, and either will never exist, or is years and years away.

Harking back to this subject, I've just started playing Rhodan Myth of the Illochim, call those subtitles? A very small font size and done in pale gray on a black background.

I have no hearing problem but I'm not english, and subtitles for me are absolutely vital to properly understand the game.
What developers and publishers ought to understand is that their game is sold even in countries where english is not the first language, because not all the time the game is localized in all languages. Subtiling is very important for indie games, as the Carol Reed's and Last Half of Darkness sagas, as you can find these games only in english.
No subtitling really put me off Culpa Innata 2 already!
The first Culpa Innata was localized in italian but the dubbing was so awful that I'd prefer to play it in english, with full subtitles!
If developers can't make the effort to translate the cutscenes too, I'm not going to bother buy it.

Hi Carlo (and all)

As to the substance of the dialogs - well some like them, some don't. We understand.

However Culpa One had all cut scenes subtitled as well as Dialogs, in addition to certain comments that were plot significant. The only spoken words not subtitled were Phoenix side comments or one liners. We saw these as extra character flavoring available to the player. Background stuff. In other words, it wasn't important to recall them in regards to gameplay decisions. But, we listened to gamers comments and wishes otherwise. So other versions incorporated this change. For example the UK version has anything spoken totally subtitled.

And... this version will be available for download in the very near future and also is uncensored as it is euro rather than US rated.

As for subtitles for Culpa 2: Chaos Rising, erm the game is a ways away from release (Fall 2009) and no playable in game code has been seen by anyone outside our team. But I absolutely state it will be fully sub titled. Not sure where the idea came from that there are no subtitles. We are scheduled to have a playable demo releasing sometime before the end of this year. So our playable slice will speak (and read) for itself

I am English and I am partily deaf in one ear and I also like subtitles although it is nt that bad for me .Some times some peoples voices I cant seem to catch the words if you understand what I mean .I like Jack Keane for this .Voices are very clear and subtitles to

I like playing without the subtitles on- if they are on the screen I tend to look at them- if they are not I concentrate more on the graphics and become more engaged into the game. If I am having trouble understanding them- yes I will have them showing. What I like is being able to go back into the inventory area and if there was a conversation I did not understand I can go into dialog and be able to read it-as in Drac3 and Sherlock ---

Gatorlaw, so glad to see that Culpa 2 will have subtitles. I always keep them on, and am really handicapped when movies/games don't include them.

Not to worry, the features list in the announcement had to leave off a lot or run pretty long ... REALLY long *faints*

Happy to clarify things for everyone

*waves back at Loony*

Gatorlaw, I love you if only more developers like you would read our forums and take on board what we say. XXX

Thanks for the info and clarification, Laura!

Awww

Many developers lurk and listen just some are shy about responding or they are really swamped. But please...keep posting your thoughts, reactions and preferences. It all helps us make better games for all of you.

We are also lucky as an independent development house , meaning we can listen AND hopefully respond intelligently (in the game design) where it matters most

Thank you gatorlaw for 'lurking & listening'!

I've enjoyed many of the new games that have come out over the last few years, but for me Culpa Innata has been one of the best & I'm waiting in anticipation for Chaos Rising hoping to get more of the same!

I know Culpa Innata evoked mixed feelings but I liked it just the way it was (except maybe for one glitch where in a particular place Phoenix moved backwards!)

My feeling on trying to make a game to please everyone is that you can end up playing something that's too formulaic & therefore more bland than something that oozes the heart & soul of the developer which can be far more interesting (if that makes sense!)

I've played quite a few of what I would call 'formulaic' games - yes - they have all been very enjoyable, but Culpa Innata was all the more so for trying something a little different.

On the subject of subtitles - I do prefer to have them & I know Culpa Innata had the option.

Uhmm .. and a big "our oops moment"

The default mode was supposed to be "subtitles on" with the option then being to turn them off. But somehow in the 20 kazillion checks, testings etc - this "somehow" got reverse ordered in finalization.

so it may be people just assumed there weren't any and never turned them on.

But! one total promise - we are not changing our basic focus. We will be adding variety to the puzzling - but not making them less accessible. There are a lot of great pure puzzlers out there and although we think challenge is an essential element of any quest game, we are more focused on improving the accesibility of the story (which is huge) and character depth, atmosphere and a better perception for players as to how and when their choices make a difference in the game.

The changes we are focused on is making the design choices we made for game 1, work harder and better in game 2.

I always have subtitles on, mostly because I enjoy ambient noises, but also because if a word is slured or said in a way I have trouble picking up then its just so easy to catch. I will click through the subtitles on the first go round now and then when some conversations just drag on, but that's rare. The times I love the click through is on the second or third go round which happens as we all know for this or that reason (mess up). I think its very interesting to see that subtitles are so popular and for so many reasons. Good thread.

That's my feelings too Gatorlaw!
I will put back Culpa Innata 2 on my list

Chrissie,
I got a good chuckle out of the part where Phoenix was walking, and running, backwards, , but only after I saw that it was only a temporary thing!

well we could make running backwards an optional activity ...



*mild glower at Microsoft" It was a direct x thing. We are way past that now though - thank goodness.

Thanks Carla, I didn't think you had truly taken us off your list (but heard your frustration) I figured you would give Game 2 a chance - dedicated AG gamer that you are.

Otherwise we would have had to stop by - ring your doorbell and say come on - you know you want to play it just in case so here it is. Eg. I once chased a fed ex truck down for my order of GK3 so ya never know - could happen

Culpa Innata is the most over rated game I've ever played. It was tedious and I was glad when I finally finished it.

GuybrushThreepwood,

We have read your many posts on Culpa and appreciate your point of view.

Like I said, we welcome all input - the critical as well as the positive. Only way to improve and make better games that people enjoy.

Maybe what's next will surprise you

To be fair both Jonathan Boakes and Noel Burton have posted and we them too.
To get back to subtitles; it's not just having the subtitles but they must work for the people using them. I, like many older people, have variable (?)lens in my glasses, which means that my long distance lens are at the top of the glasses and near distance at the bottom. If the subtitles are at the top of the page I have to tilt my head up to read them and can no longer see what is happening on the rest of the screen so for me they need to be at the bottom. ( To be fair I can only remember 1 game that put them at the top)
My problem with Rhodan is that the subtitles are in gray on a black background and are therefore very difficult to read, about as much use as a chocolate frying pan. Why would they do that?

Old lady, I have variable lenses too, so to save my neck, I have a seperate pair of computer glasses

Good idea Loony

I too want to thank Gatorlaw for taking interest in what we here at GB say . It is nice to know developers are listening. I have never played Culpa Innata before but now I think I will, then I will be ready for the new one when it comes out .

Now about subtitles I enjoy having them too. Once in awhile it gets noisy around my house. I like the way Sherlock Holmes games has a diaolog book in inventory that you can go to and read if you missed what was said and also missed the subtitle.

Looney
I have a seperate pair of glasses just for the computer too, it works really well as long as I remember to ferry them home from work each night. I automatically check my "inventory" while I'm waiting for elevator.

Its the fuzzy subtitles that remind to use them and then everything is so much sharper.

I think Gameboomers is an excellent place to listen to opinion because everyone is passionate and civilized, a great combination.