The puzzle of puzzles!

Hey people :-)

A few days ago I wanted to show a friend of mine who hates AG and whom I always force to experience yet another one, what I decided to term "the puzzle of puzzles" (later to be described).
This got me thinking, that it could be nice to have a discussion here surrounding the ultimate question:

what is your favourite puzzle to ever have solved?

Yes, a very hard question. And I don't think even the one which I titled as the puzzle of puzzles is the answer. So I decided I'll specify 3 different puzzles that, each in their own way, got me nothing else than bow to the ingeniousness behind them.

So these are my picks, after some wild thinking:

1. The moon room (I think it's called), in Kadish Tolesa, Uru. (second puzzle of the bunch).
The theme of the puzzle was absoulutely beautiful - look for the hidden, the secret. It's design, the scattering of hints, it's integration with the plot and theme of the age, and the general built of it - just blew my mind away. That's the puzzle I termed "puzzle of puzzles" though there might be better :-)

2. Le Serpent Rouge, Gabriel Knight 3.
What can I say? Pure pleasure to solve - immense plot-puzzle integration, brilliant execution - poetic. Simply a work of art.

3. Animals puzzle, Riven. Another masterwork. Solving it forced one to follow the natives' code system, understanding deeper and deeper the delicate plot of the world, and to search for clues scattered all around, in different forms and shapes - that could be collected just with patiance and true understanding. Amazing!


These are my 3. As you can see, the common ground between them is not having generally anything to do with inventory items/pixle hunting (maybe LSR indirectly does) - cause a good puzzle I consider to have only to do with the power of mind, and the amount of integration with the plot (if exists! :-) )

I'd definitely like to see opinions of the other members!

Tomer.

The best one I remember solving was the broken crystal sphere in Zak McKracken where you had to find the digital audio tape and the boom box then record the sound the unbroken sphere made to open the doors of the huge face on Mars.

Monkey Kombat and the diving puzzle from Escape from Monkey Island took me forever to figure out.

The Monkey Island series puzzles. The insult swordplay from the first game was the funniest. The wanted poster and all of the other think outside the box puzzles from LeChuck's Revenge were so much fun. Discworld 1 & 2 also had some great puzzles.

Any puzzle from Day of the Tentacle was marvellously complicated and the "frog in the throat" solution in the first Discworld definitely required lateral thinking

I'm not sure which puzzle made me most proud of my brainpower but the most FUN puzzle I solved took me about 10 hours of which I never got bored or frustrated with it, and that to me made it a great puzzle. I'm referring to the Rainbow Bridge puzzle in Beyond Atlantis.

Intresting choices, and very far from my own

What a good question, and a hard one to answer.
But I do remember. . . getting through Myst without a walkthrough
when it first came out really set my hair on fire.

Tomer there were 2 in URU for me. The one where the creatures jump from one shell to the other in the trees and the final one with the clouds and the swirling colors!

Eee, the swirling colours is probably my least liked puzzle

And it's not Uru btw, it's Myst 4

B I am so impressed. I had trouble with Myst even with the walkthrough.

The one I'm most proud of is solving the math puzzles in Rama with base 12 and base 8, etc. I couldn't figure out how to use the scientific calculator on the computer so worked out each one on paper, very laboriously I must say. Great feeling of accomplishment!

the one i have fond memories of is making oscar's limbs in syberia - that cut scene !
it was the first game i ever played , and i had no idea there were walkthroughs , or that this place existed , so i was playing totally on my own. it took me forever !

The puzzles I enjoy the most are often not the most difficult. For example I liked the Mystes O'Tyme puzzle in Escape From Monkey Island.

Many of my favorite puzzles are built into the game environment and have a visual payoff -- for example the puzzles in Myst: Exile, where you see something remarkable happen when you solve them.

I remember having trouble with the computer puzzle in Gabriel Knight 3 and several of the puzzles in Black Dahlia were very challenging.
I also was proud of being able to figure out some of the Faust puzzles that I almost gave up on.

Le Serpent Rouge was definitely my favorite as well.

Space Quest, I got that Zak McKracken puzzle right away because it was the exact same puzzle they used in Maniac Mansion with the tape recorder and the rusty key in the chandelier. Those games were so much fun.

Venus,

Didn't one of the tentacles show up in Maniac Mansion too?

I'm surprised no-one mentioned the laser puzzle in Still Life.

Well it wasn't a very good puzzle.
You got more relief than joy from solving it, and solving it didn't make you feel any smarter.

Tomer I remembered last night that both puzzles were from Myst Revelation! It's tuff to get old!

Space Quest, both of the tentacles were in Maniac Mansion. That's where they were first introduced.

Jenny, I'm with you. I hated that robot puzzle, and I keep three saved games at the end of it now so I never have to go through it again.

Wow, a question that's a puzzle in itself! I vote this question as a specialty. Just trying to think of 3 answers makes this sort of a puzzle to me!
Sliders are my most favorite puzzles. I know, I'm a mutant, but I can't help it.
#1 The slider puzzle in TIMELAPSE. I think many of us adventure gamers know the one in the pyramid.
#2 Assembling puzzles: the one in PANDORA DIRECTIVE called 'The Three Kings', not hard but really interesting/tied with the assembly puzzle, same game, where you assemble pyramid-like onyx pieces for points.
My number 3 is the slider puzzle using the Mayan calender numbers to open one of the boxes, also in PANDORA DIRECTIVE and this is tied with the laser puzzle in STILL LIFE that just about drove me insane.

The puzzle I liked was in Riddle of Master Lu, after getting into the room below the billiard table. Build a structure to get a jewel, then work out how to leave the room!

Took me ages to suss out.

Wow !! That was SOME complicated puzzle, boomerang, and the first time I played the game I struggled for eons with it because I didn't even know what half the items used in the puzzle were
But what a glorious game it is

I had forgot about Master Lu. That was a great game with very good puzzles.

I just finished playing Lost in Time again. There were any number of creative puzzles in that game. Remember having to build an electromagnet from spare parts? That was a puzzle.

Tomer the hardest puzzle for me and not one I liked but did solve I just played in Tomb Raider (Angel of Darkness). It's the one with the "Red Ghost" that you have to stun before you can grab the painting. It was a great feeling when I did it!

"I just finished playing Lost in Time again. There were any number of creative puzzles in that game. Remember having to build an electromagnet from spare parts? That was a puzzle."

Certainly do !!
So many absolutely "brain-withering" puzzle memories can be dredged up from past games when we make the effort !!

The first most memorable puzzle I came across in an AG was how to get past that goat in Broken Sword 1 - at the time I didn't have the internet & it took me at least a week trying everything before I sussed it all by myself!

I did love the Serpent Rouge puzzle in GK3 also but needed a few hints to work it out.

I'm not a great 'puzzle' puzzle person but appreciate there have been many good ones that I'd rather not have been confronted with but have given them a bash & sometime beaten them!

chrissie,

I thought many of the puzzles in GK3 were very hard. Broken Sword 1 is still on my recommendation list every year. It is frustrating when you get stuck on a puzzle but it sure does feel good when you work the solution out on your own.

Well, I've been thinking about this and I can't get it down to just three. There are so many good puzzles that I liked. So I'm indulging myself with a much long list, in categories.

Multi-stepped/exploration puzzles:

The Daedalus Club "funhouse" in Gray Matter
The Marble Puzzle in Riven
The 5 book riddles in Yoomurjak's Ring
The 7 chalices in 80 Days

Puzzle sequences that also helped define the characters

Getting the toilet bowl brush in Broken Sword 1
The midnight picnic prep and conversation in Everlight
Getting the pearl factory working in The Whispered World

Puzzles that tied in story elements

Hiring a lawyer (the cat track sequence) in Grim Fandango
The steering wheel flashback in Dark Fall: Lost Souls
The telescope puzzle in Secrets of Da Vinci: The Forbidden Manuscript
The screening room sequence in Agatha Christie: And Then There Were None

Puzzles I didn't want to solve because watching the characters fail was so much fun

Nancy's dance audition in Nancy Drew: Phantom of Venice
Assil keeping the customers happy in Ankh 2: Heart of Osiris
The Midtown Cowboys improv in Sam & Max Episode 102: Situation Comedy

becky - too funny !
i honestly couldn't think of three right off the bat , and you have yours categorized !

i liked the stealth sequence in da vinci , and most of the puzzles in echo would be right up there for me.

i'm a mutant along with bubba jake - sliders are some of my favorite puzzles , and i liked the laser puzzle in still life !

but solving the oscar puzzle was the one that hooked me on the games for as long as i can play 'em !

Great Topic

There were very many but these seem to stand out for me..

1) getting the coordinates and firing the canon in the Neverhood

2) The mechanical valve - boiler room puzzle in Tomb of Zojir

3) Raising the ship at the dock in Myst

It is a tough question - even while I was typing this up, I was thinking of some other very memorable ones. But these I remember well.

Sureshot is that the Rocket puzzle in Myst where you had to match the notes with the piano? That was a real tuff one for me!

I am a bit in jenny100s camp about visual payoffs. Getting the tram started in the desert scene in Outcry is not only intricate and multilayered, it is rewarded by a wonderful cutscene. A number of puzzles in the Myst games are similarly rewarded.
On a different tack, for diabolic simplicity the fingers puzzle in Monkey Islan 2 is a winner.

Puzzles in the first three Myst games stand out in my mind because I was able to figure out most of them. And because it was my introduction to this type of puzzle solving.

The rocket ship sound puzzle in the first Myst made me really listen. And the resonance rings for Exile because I actually reasoned out the solution. Something I don't usually possess.

There have been a few others since then but the first three Mysts are my favorites.

Homer,
I am really impressed. I thought Myst was one of the hardest games I have ever played and I never would of finished that game without a walkthrough.

The Rhem puzzles - just navagating at times was puzzlement. I do enjoy puzzle driven games but even the Rhem walkthroughs were difficult at times.
The darkside: Am playing God of War 3 and am warming up to the labrynth. This hould be a challenge.

Ahhh...yes, a walkthrough. One for each game was near by if needed. And sometimes they were needed.

There were some puzzles in the first three I did figure out myself. And then there were others I didn't have a clue. So I used a walkthrough to point me in the right direction. Sometimes this worked and sometimes I had to read the walkthrough for the puzzle to solve it.

Take, for example, getting all the papers--I think they were--in the first Myst. One was in the box by the dock. And had it not been for a walkthrough to this puzzle I'd have never found it.

When you talk about hard puzzles, the first Rhem jumps into my mind. Whoa, they indeed were to me.

Hi Kaki's Sister - That's the one - took me a while - but I remember feeling pretty good about solving it.

Kaki's Sister - oops no not that one -sorry - that puzzle was good too. I am talking about the puzzle early on in the game where the ship is sunk at the dock - you have to raise it - there's a linking book on it in the captain's cabin I believe.

The ahha!! came when I heard that distinctive sound that a said "something just happened" - thenn you see the ship afloat and can now go on it.

MYST kinda of stays with you especially if you solve its puzzles without a WT.

I have nothing but admiration for anyone who finished the first Myst without help
I spent most of MY time getting lost just navigating via the snap-shot system, never mind solving puzzles !!

I didn't have too much trouble navigating above ground, it was going underground that gave me fits. I don't remember which Myst it was, but you had to navigate a sub through an underground labyrinth. I don't know how many times I tried before checking a WT for a hint.

Again, I can't remember which Myst, but going through the jungle to free electric fish for power lower down. Talk about walking in circles.

Homer, it's myst 3

I remember that part Homer. Everything under water looked alike and I kept making the same wrong turn! I was very happy when I finally got it!

Homer, there is a underwater trip back from the Island you get to from the rocket ship. When you are finished with all the other puzzles, you have to open the big door back by the dock, then it takes you thru another tunnel of tricks to the underwater ship. That's how you get the Letter back.

Riven also has a great underwater trek, finding secrets of the language, and getting on the huge metal 'Cone' to be lifted up the stone houses on top.


O. K., now that you have succeeded in reminding me how wonderful Myst and Riven are, I have no choice but to drag them out AGAIN!! for a 5th and 6th time.

In one of the later Myst games there was an infernal contraption which I called, for lack of a better term, the "Spider Chair". As I recall it was a combination of sliders, tone recognition, dexterity and logic all in one puzzle. I still have nightmares...

I knew if I kept yammering on about sliders I'd find a kindred spirit, and we're mutants,too! Take that, you norms!!

I like sliders too! (and I also like mazes)

I, too, like sliders but have to admit defeat sometimes with them

Not all of the slider puzzles in the Myst games caused me problems. I understood what they were meant to do. It was the ones that didn't look like they did anything until you realized something did happen, just not where you could see.

Was it Riven where you had to figure out the weight of the orange ball so the track could be set to keep from breaking the rolling ball? I confess, WT helped me through this one.

macmac I believe that was Myst Revelation.

No, it was exile Myst 3

Tomer I was refering to the "chair" puzzle in Myst Revelation that I think macmac mentioned in an earlier post.

That is a very good question and a very hard one too... Let me think....
Well i don't really enjoy sound puzzles or music puzzles and i really hate puzzles that in order to solve them you have to go from one place to another. I think i prefer slider are color puzzles...

I just wanted to bump this up because it is such a great thread.

Just thought of another puzzle I hate.

Trying to find the shut off button on the alarm clock after being rocked out of a sound sleep.

Homer that is one we all hate.

to Homer6:

I've played over 400 Hundred Adv. games in my lifetime and I don't remember that puzzle, which game does that one come from?

The game of "real life", I think. <g>

But while we're on the subject, and while I know there are a lot of very bright people here who revel in this sort of thing, I'm a complete dunce when it comes to figuring out sequences. Do I ever dislike those!

Gil.

Yes, Star, Gil is right. That particular puzzle is from Real Life, the one we all experience daily.

Sequences, Gil? As in this game after this game after this game?

I'm not sure I can explain this clearly but say you're pushing buttons to get all the parts of a puzzle to light up or get level with one another or show the same image. It's pure luck if I manage it because I'm dreadful at working out the order in which I should push those buttons.

Gil.

I enjoyed the puzzles from both Safecracker games

The one that gave me fits is the Drawing (or trying to) of a Pentagram in one of the Dracula games (Drac 3 I believe). I am useless at drawing a simple picture with a pencil let alone trying to draw a picture with a mouse.

To Homer:

Well, Umm, I am retired and the only time I need an Alarm clock is when I have an early Doctor's appt. or any other appts. or commitments, otherwise my Alarm clock sits in the Corner collecting dust, so you see, that's why I didn't catch on

So you don't recall any plans to shoot your alarm clock or drop it from a great height? <g>

I can't imagine anyone saying they liked that awful pentagram in Dracula 3!

Gil.

Hi traveler,
How quickly did you draw it or how many tries did it take?

Re: Alarm shooting the A.C., nah, I now look at it as reminder that I no longer need it except to know the time of day.

I couldn't do it, Starcom. After trying until I was half crazy (now you know what's wrong with me), I got a saved game, I think from Savegameserver, and went on from there. I'm just not fast enough or coordinated enough anymore.

Gil.

Favorite or hardest. It's hard for me to have 1 without mentioning the other. The most difficult puzzle may not be my favorite but after solving it the satisfaction you feel shoots that puzzle right to the top of the list. BUT...that being said i think one of the best times I had solving a puzzle was "The Channelwood Age" in MYST because for me that was ONE BIG PUZZLE all connected together. Took me forever but LOVED every minute of it:)

From Journeyman III Legacy of Time. Getting all the tokens from the Buddahs in Shangri La. Navigating the steam tunnel was very difficult for me! I have a cheat map drawn so I can do it a little easier now. I just love it when I hear Arthur say "I'm detecting a sudden change in temperature" - indicating you have melted what needs to melted down there and can go get what you need to.

Frankly I feel a sense of accomplishment whenever I complete a puzzle (difficult or easy) and am able to progress.

I remember having a lot of trouble with the spit competition in Monkey Island 2. That game had some great puzzles.

Yes Sirree !!

No access to walkthroughs for me in those days.

Took me three weeks to solve it

But what a great game !!

Oh, sometimes I wish there were no walkthroughs to this day Too hard to resist. When it's important for me (for example, with a game like Gray Matter, to which I've been waiting for 5 years), I actually have to sign an imaginary contract with myself, that if I use help, I'll forever hate myself

If I did that, there could be so much more HATE in the world

Mad

Yeah, walkthroughs were once as rare as finding a diamond in your backyard. Everyday.

Now, after so many have played existing games you can find those diamonds. Everyday.

I've used walkthroughs only after the third month of play. I figure there's more to the game than the current location, and time to move on.

I try, try, not to use walkthroughs because I don't want to ruin the fun experience. But sometimes it's just a bit much when I see a clump of hair in one of my hands, and know there isn't much left.

Homer6 !!

Please stop talking about losing clumps of hair
Having just replied to another of your posts on the subject, I was beginning to think my eyes were going too.

[It's getting scary ]

It's become a very thin topic with me, Mad. Not only is there more ventilation on top, forward progress is sometimes delayed while visual input is recalibrated.

So succinctly put, Homer6

I love puzzles that come from information gathering rather than inventory items.
I love the computer work in both GABRIEL Knight 2 AND 3

I just remembered a couple of puzzles I dislike
timed puzzles, and puzzles based on memory, you push one , then two then three in a row, I make to 7 and am losing it, before I need the 8th to solve, HATE those kind.. think there was one of these in Whispered world. or maybe it was another game,

I like the way tomer described the puzzles, I like the ones, that are part of the whole plot.
I like to have a notebook, and work out the plot points, that lead me to solutions, but as I sit here cant think of specific puzzles, maybe like the ones in Alida, and GK.

Edited to add, I agree Tomer, I want to use Walkthroughs less, I think it can be a habit, when it is frustrating, to grab one, I want to also try and use it less, as solving things is the most fun in the game, I play for the puzzles first, then the story..
so I am doing myself a disservice if I use a walkthrough to soon.