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Dreamfall Chapters will feature 5 Episodes beginning Autumn 2014

Posted By: Karsten

Dreamfall Chapters will feature 5 Episodes beginning Autumn 2014 - 06/30/14 06:43 PM


Ragnar Tørnquist has updated the Kickstarter page for this game. Link:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/redthread/dreamfall-chapters-the-longest-journey/posts/890605

He mentions that the game will be in 5 parts:

Quote:
We initially debated splitting the game in two, like other recently Kickstarted adventure titles. And since our story is already divided into five books, this felt like the natural way to break it up. The shorter wait between books will also, we hope, be easier to endure. This is not going to change the game's story. The five Books will tell the story we always intended to tell; a story that concludes the Dreamer Cycle and Zoë Castillo's role in The Longest Journey saga...but not the saga itself. (Yep, there's more to come.)


They decided to make it into 5 parts since they didn't want to make

Quote:
[....]deep cuts, removed a lot of the characters, story-lines and locations — but we would have ended up with a different game than the one that's played inside our heads for the better part of a decade, a different game than the one we've promised our backers. We would have lost much of the magic and narrative depth. And we would've still had to delay our release into next year.


And the first episode will be out Autumn 2014.
Posted By: BrownEyedTigre

Re: Dreamfall Chapters will feature 5 Episodes beginning Autumn 2014 - 06/30/14 06:50 PM

I'm not surprised, that's what I assumed would happen all along.

Ana wave
Posted By: Mad

Re: Dreamfall Chapters will feature 5 Episodes beginning Autumn 2014 - 07/01/14 12:13 AM

Yes. I was sent that information and wasn't super happy to receive it rolleyes

I don't like games delivered in episodes.
And that wasn't what I pledged for when I backed the project !!

So, a long wait for me as I will be hanging on until all the episodes are finished and I can play a complete game duh
Posted By: oldman

Re: Dreamfall Chapters will feature 5 Episodes beginning Autumn 2014 - 07/01/14 06:13 AM

Let's see, Episode 1 in August or September and then 5 episodes with a 2 or 3 month period between episodes which means that the final game could be finished in about 18 months. This is good news?????
Posted By: Jenny100

Re: Dreamfall Chapters will feature 5 Episodes beginning Autumn 2014 - 07/01/14 06:14 PM

Originally Posted By: oldman
with a 2 or 3 month period between episodes

Isn't that a bit overly optimistic?
Posted By: oldman

Re: Dreamfall Chapters will feature 5 Episodes beginning Autumn 2014 - 07/01/14 07:10 PM

Jenny100 when you're right you're right. lol I was giving them the benefit of the very big doubt.
Posted By: Karsten

Re: Dreamfall Chapters will feature 5 Episodes beginning Autumn 2014 - 07/01/14 10:45 PM

Actually, Ragnar T. says this a little later in the update, link here:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/redthread/dreamfall-chapters-the-longest-journey/posts/890605

Quote:
We will announce the release date for Book Two soon after the release of Book One, and we will work very hard to keep the wait between books as brief as possible. Book Two is already in alpha, and Book Three isn’t far behind.


So it could well be that there will be 3 months between each episode for this game.
Posted By: venus

Re: Dreamfall Chapters will feature 5 Episodes beginning Autumn 2014 - 07/02/14 05:00 AM

You know, I'm actually okay with this. I was a bit disappointed at first, and of course I would prefer to get the full game at once. However, it seems they had to revise their plans, and I understand that snags can and will happen. Also, there are advantages to it. If I were to get the full game, I just know I would binge play it, and before I knew it, it would be over with. This way, I'll be able to play it over a longer period of time, and it sounds as though there will be a lot more to each episode than current TellTale offerings. (Not that I still don't love their games, too. wink) And of course, once the full thing is out, I can always play the whole thing at once, which I'm sure I will do several times anyway. grin

By the way, I'm sure it will be posted here officially anyway, but here is a link to the trailer in case anyone is interested. I think it looks fantastic - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ktxliB-b-4&feature=youtu.be. smile
Posted By: oldmariner

Re: Dreamfall Chapters will feature 5 Episodes beginning Autumn 2014 - 07/02/14 07:52 AM

Originally Posted By: Mad
Yes. I was sent that information and wasn't super happy to receive it rolleyes

I don't like games delivered in episodes.
And that wasn't what I pledged for when I backed the project !!

So, a long wait for me as I will be hanging on until all the episodes are finished and I can play a complete game duh


Nothing Ragnar does surprises me. Yes this is a disappointment but considering the cob job Dreamfall was, I am in no hurry. It seems initially many years ago we heard "You will not have to wait long for the continuation of April's story. Then, far longer than not too long, April got thrown aside for a hybrid came featuring another character who in my opinion was far less compelling.

Then we were promised answers to what happened to April after she was 'killed, or not killed'. Then came Kickstarter and after backing the game, I find "Oh no April's story will come at a later date after Dreamfall chapters." Empty promises appear to be the norm. Then chapters became a complete game, another kick starter promise. Now we find out the chapters are back to chapters again, so you now say.

"but we would have ended up with a different game than the one that's played inside our heads for the better part of a decade, a different game than the one we've promised our backers."

Really, Ragnar which promise are you referring to, the idea of a complete game, or what happened to April and crow?

This vague comment, " This is not going to change the game's story. The five Books will tell the story we always intended to tell; a story that concludes the Dreamer Cycle and Zoë Castillo's role in The Longest Journey saga...but not the saga itself. (Yep, there's more to come.)"

Do I need to remind you "The five Books will tell the story we always intended to tell;" Which story is that? We have heard many variations of your intentions. I for one am fed up with broken promises. In the meantime I'll play TLJ again and if you ever deliver then I'll pay attention.

In other words we can expect more ignoring of the initial characters without whom you wouldn't have a game in the first place. We have no promise Zoe will not get the shaft as well. I can see another coma to be resolved in 2024. The answers you did not provide in Dreamfall won't be forthcoming here either. For ten years I kept reading quotes of yours hinting we will be hearing from April again. It seems that was a dodge to mollify angry gamers.

Tell somebody who cares. When the five chapters arrive in total I may or may not play the game. At this point I could care less about continuation of Dreamfall. There is none of the character development in that bomb Dreamfall, that we found in perhaps the greatest story telling in a computer game of all time in TLJ.

Keep making promises and changing directions, there is a reason why we regard politicians as contemptible. You are acting the same. I keep referring to Dreamfall as a cob job. It could have been a good game if, you did not try to please the game box crowd, and if you never made TLJ in the first place. Not to mention break every promise you left us with after the first game. Take a hint stop talking.
Posted By: Mad

Re: Dreamfall Chapters will feature 5 Episodes beginning Autumn 2014 - 07/02/14 03:54 PM

I see you are quoting my post, oldmariner, and whilst I am very disappointed with the new situation I don't think I am quite as upset by it as you are !! eek
Posted By: traveler

Re: Dreamfall Chapters will feature 5 Episodes beginning Autumn 2014 - 07/02/14 04:57 PM

Bravo, old mariner.
It's nice to see someone hold a developer's feet to the fire over unfulfilled promises.
They seem to believe that everyone will put up with every swing of the weathervane as "exigencies demand" delays or changes or outright about-turns in what they once presented as graven in stone.
Ragnar Tørnquist is not the only one, only another in an increasing number of devs who don't seem to know the meaning of the word promise but expect our support no matter what.

Well, AFAIC, it's one thing to support the genre, as I imagine both you and I are ready and eager to do, quite another to accept one excuse after another for falling down on one's word.

Gil.
Posted By: BrownEyedTigre

Re: Dreamfall Chapters will feature 5 Episodes beginning Autumn 2014 - 07/02/14 05:16 PM

Originally Posted By: traveler
Bravo, old mariner.
It's nice to see someone hold a developer's feet to the fire over unfulfilled promises.

Gil.


I'm not sure Ragnar's feet are burning since he isn't here to read it. grin Perhaps it would be more effective if you post on the kickstarter page where you feel your pledge was not being honored as promised. Just a thought.
Posted By: traveler

Re: Dreamfall Chapters will feature 5 Episodes beginning Autumn 2014 - 07/02/14 06:01 PM

Two thoughts on that if you're talking to me, Ana.
I haven't pledged anything to Chapters since I loathed TLJ and wouldn't pay a nickel to see the saga continued.
Oldmariner evidently believes he's been shafted by years of broken promises in regard to the continuation of a story he thoroughly enjoyed in its first outing though, and that's what I was responding to, his feelings and the current willingness of devs to forget all about what they initially promised if it becomes burdensome to them for some reason or another.

As for not being here to read oldmariner's post or mine, why isn't he?
It looks to me as if a developer would be interested, if not compelled, to find out what gamers are thinking outside their forums which are often populated by vocal fanboys.
But the way they've been acting, it could very well be that they aren't.

Gil.
Posted By: Rushes

Re: Dreamfall Chapters will feature 5 Episodes beginning Autumn 2014 - 07/02/14 06:26 PM

I guess the reality of it is, that Kickstarter is a potential risk, and not every promise that a developer initially makes on a project will be fulfilled. They'll chop and change and adjust, according to their whim/creative drive/necessity. Nothing is definite until the final product is up and ready with a firm release date. I don't do Kickstarter. I don't choose to risk my money on an eventual product that may not be to my liking or preference. If I lose out, that's fair enough. smile I certainly don't like chaptered games, so I likely won't be indulging in Dreamfall Chapters. The current global financial situation aside, I think wistfully back ten years, when things weren't so complicated for the end user.
Posted By: Mad

Re: Dreamfall Chapters will feature 5 Episodes beginning Autumn 2014 - 07/02/14 07:38 PM

I support Kickstarter projects "selectively" if and when I can afford to.
After all, I lose nothing if the pledges made don't reach the desired target.
But some outcomes are certainly better than others - even when the desired target IS reached yes
Posted By: LeBelleRachael

Re: Dreamfall Chapters will feature 5 Episodes beginning Autumn 2014 - 07/03/14 12:01 AM

Well I know you are all frustrated, (I don't like it either,)but we must take in the reality of the situation and the world we live in and show a little patience! happydance

The good old days of Adventure gaming are GONE! No longer do big companies Like Sierra throw millions of dollars at developers to make great games. The big gaming companies today have Zero, Zilch, Nada interest in funding Adventure games! insane

Developers like Ragnar Tornquist, Jane Jensen, Johathon Boakes, Agustin Cordes, etc. are virtually ON THEIR OWN! All they have is their past reputation to go on. No more are there Companies with money and resources to back them!

Which is why they do "Kickstarters", which, to be honest, is basically BEGGING!

I don't like episodic games any more than anybody else (actually NOT AT ALL). The developers are operating on limited budgets and releasing games in episodes is a way to bring in some money while they work on the games.

Thew developers are working under a lot of stress! They don't have the funding they had in the old days and if the project fails, a lot of them will be out on the street. No corporate entity will throw a paycheck at them! Many could work elsewhere but soldier on in uncertainty because they want to give us Great Games! sherlock

We should ask ourselves that if these guys don't make it what kind of games will be available in our little world of Adventure Gaming?!??!?!?!?! Hmmmmmm...now that's a scary thought! hardwall
Posted By: BrownEyedTigre

Re: Dreamfall Chapters will feature 5 Episodes beginning Autumn 2014 - 07/03/14 12:53 AM

Amen!
Posted By: venus

Re: Dreamfall Chapters will feature 5 Episodes beginning Autumn 2014 - 07/03/14 12:55 AM

Seconded! smile
Posted By: traveler

Re: Dreamfall Chapters will feature 5 Episodes beginning Autumn 2014 - 07/03/14 01:04 AM

Pardon me, but aren't you being just a little dramatic?
Do you really believe any of those people you named will be out on the street if their projects fail?

The attitude toward developers evinced in this post is exactly what enables them to feed us excuse after excuse for delays, the progress of games, and botched delivery if and when they are made, and expect us to swallow them.

What kind of games will be available if those whose reputations have earned such loyal followers don't deliver what was promised as promised?
While some were talking about the wonderful games they'll make in the ever more distant future, Bill Fisher, essentially a one man band, was making the LHOD series until he lost interest in AGs.
(And how I wish he'd come back!)
More recently, another one man outfit made Samaritan Paradox, a good game despite not having the gloss of one with a larger budget - and made without asking for money on KickStarter.
There are plenty of Indie developers out there such as Steven Alexander, "Blackthorne" of Infamous Adventures, whose tribute to adventure games of the past is right on the verge of being released.
And then there is Dave Gilbert's Wadjet Eye Games, publisher of Blackwell Epiphany, Resonance and Gemini Rue, which I personally can do without, but which have garnered a lot of praise.
There are devs eager to make adventure games and some of them will probably go on to great success.
Those who keep promising and making excuses had better look to their laurels.

Gil.




Posted By: BrownEyedTigre

Re: Dreamfall Chapters will feature 5 Episodes beginning Autumn 2014 - 07/03/14 01:45 AM

Gil, I find it interesting you think LaBelle is being a bit dramatic when it was not nearly as dramatic as oldmariners. Just an observation......
Posted By: LeBelleRachael

Re: Dreamfall Chapters will feature 5 Episodes beginning Autumn 2014 - 07/03/14 02:05 AM

Quote:
Pardon me, but aren't you being just a little dramatic?


Moi? Dramatic? YHGTBKM!

Actually Gil I think you are being dramatic! We aren't talking a major purchase here. If you don't like the delays or feel they are "botched" then you don't have to buy the game!

Your remarks sound very much like Pope Julius II's remarks to Michelangelo who was to build his tomb in 5 years, but took over 40 years!

I for one will endure the delays and foibles of a great Artist, just as poor Pope Julius II had to!

"All things come to he who waits! wave

R
Posted By: traveler

Re: Dreamfall Chapters will feature 5 Episodes beginning Autumn 2014 - 07/03/14 02:56 AM

Wait...you're equating Ragnar Tørnquist with Michaelangelo?
Okay, I give up.

Gil.
Posted By: oldmariner

Re: Dreamfall Chapters will feature 5 Episodes beginning Autumn 2014 - 07/03/14 05:20 AM

Excuse me. I was not being dramatic at all. I was complaining about promises made and promises not kept. Dreamfall was promised as a continuation of TLJ. What we got was hybrid game that failed as an Adventure game. It was a game which left players with more unanswered questions than ones that were answered. It was not a complete game. Ten years is far too long to wait for a cliff hanger.

There is a distinct difference between unforeseen delays and delivering a game that failed to deliver a promised story.

Then we heard nearly ten years of promises where these questions would be answered. On Ragnar's blog he repeatedly said he cannot say what happened to April/Crow but it will be resolved in Dreamfall Chapters.

Right up to the Kick Starter campaign the stated intent was to produce the game as chapters. Which is fine if that is what gamers are willing to accept.

Then when it came time to hit gamers up for money Dreamfall suddenly became a full game without episodes resolving all unanswered questions.

After successfully raising the money we discover the answers to TLJ suddenly will be resolved in a future game assuming this is one is a success. Of course predicated upon future funding.

Now we hear "Oh no, we are going to return to five chapters released over indefinite time periods." Be patient meaning one year or longer to have a "complete" set of five chapters.

I don't believe legitimate complaints of a developer making promises and repeatedly failing to deliver is dramatic at all. I don't think being suspicious of statements made with this track record is being dramatic at all. Don't forget in that ten year span between TLJ and Dreamfall the genre was ignored while he was exploring online games an adventure which reportedly did not go over too well.

It's been fifteen years and we received one and a half games from this guy. By that measure he is no Dave Gilbert.
Posted By: smulan

Re: Dreamfall Chapters will feature 5 Episodes beginning Autumn 2014 - 07/03/14 10:35 AM

Kickstarter is about supporting ideas with your money, not preordering a product. And it's a matter of free will to do it or not. The story in Dreamfall was fully satisfying to me and I believe chapters will succeed in this too. I'm behind Thornquists decision.
Posted By: Mad

Re: Dreamfall Chapters will feature 5 Episodes beginning Autumn 2014 - 07/03/14 04:33 PM

"Kickstarter is about supporting ideas with your money, not preordering a product."

That's obviously true, smulan, but there is certainly an issue with this project, as far as I'm concerned.

When a developer goes down the Kickstarter route asking for project funding, he describes up-front what he expects to be able to offer on completion if he's fortunate enough to raise that funding.

And that is what people who pledge expect when the project is completed - or at least a close approximation.

And in my opinion, what we are being offered now is definitely not a close approximation.

[And whether Dreamfall satisfied players or didn't, I feel is actually irrelevant in this context. It wasn't a "project". It was a completed game, financed without Kickstarter and offered via the retail market.]
Posted By: oldmariner

Re: Dreamfall Chapters will feature 5 Episodes beginning Autumn 2014 - 07/03/14 05:51 PM

Originally Posted By: smulan
Kickstarter is about supporting ideas with your money, not preordering a product. And it's a matter of free will to do it or not. The story in Dreamfall was fully satisfying to me and I believe chapters will succeed in this too. I'm behind Thornquists decision.


Yes you are preordering a product.

The business in the past worked by developers taking a risk using their own capital to create a game they hope to sell. The publishers took a risk when the developer presented it to them. The customer viewed the final product presentation. The success or failure depended on the market accepting the game or not. The capital at risk was theirs as were the earned profits or loss.

What developers are now doing is presenting their project asking the customer to bear the risk. If the game is a total flop the developer has spent your money and still makes a profit. You have paid for the game based on nothing more than a promise. In other words they are trying to change the rules by making you the customer bear the risk.

It's a great way to run a business take no financial risk, guarantee all your expenses are met and pocket some money in the process. Look at the Kick starter pitch, "If we do not received X amount of pledges the project will not be funded and you pay nothing." In other words if the project is not fully funded meaning costs and profit projections are not realized, sorry folks. Who is taking the risk? Not the people proposing the game.

It's like ordering a 60 inch flat screen and the delivery guy drops a 19 inch at your door. The note inside says, "Sorry we had production issues at the factory and had to substitute." Somewhere deep in the number 2 font paperwork you find, "Not responsible for any last minute changes."

The bottom line is they beg for your money promising Gabriel Knight 4 that is what they must deliver.

It is my opinion, some will agree some won't. You purchased what they promised. I guess it depends on how willing you are to be played. I will crawl quietly back into my hole with a promise of no more funding projects no matter how enticing.
Posted By: Jenny100

Re: Dreamfall Chapters will feature 5 Episodes beginning Autumn 2014 - 07/03/14 06:00 PM

Originally Posted By: smulan
Kickstarter is about supporting ideas with your money, not preordering a product. And it's a matter of free will to do it or not.

That's not how Kickstarter is used in practice.
Otherwise there would be no reason for the "Rewards Tiers."
Whether you call them "Rewards Tiers" or a "Pre-order" is just semantics.

Except for the people who donated less than $20 to ***the Kickstarter for Dreamfall Chapters***, the donors expected to get something in return for their money when the project was funded.
Posted By: Mad

Re: Dreamfall Chapters will feature 5 Episodes beginning Autumn 2014 - 07/03/14 06:17 PM

I ought to explain why I said that I don't feel pledging via Kickstarter is the same as ordering a product.
It's because if the funding is not raised there won't be a product smile
Posted By: BrownEyedTigre

Re: Dreamfall Chapters will feature 5 Episodes beginning Autumn 2014 - 07/03/14 06:31 PM

Most of the comments are understanding and supportive of their decision. You can read the official forum comments here.

Ana wave
Posted By: venus

Re: Dreamfall Chapters will feature 5 Episodes beginning Autumn 2014 - 07/03/14 07:11 PM

Thanks for the link, Ana. I should really post on that forum; I already have my Dreamer forum badge. The problem is once I've read all the topics, I usually don't have time to make a reply. It's hard enough just keeping up with this forum. lol

It's good to see that most people are understanding, and those that do have complaints are generally polite about it. And Ragnar has been really good about answering questions and concerns. Another forum member did a remarkable job of compiling all his answers here - http://redthreadgames.com/forum/topic/333-a-message-from-ragnar-faq-compilation/. I really don't think his intention was to go back on any promises. If I'm reading it correctly, it seems as though they are just trying to make things work as best they can, and unfortunately it meant changing the original plan. As a creative person myself who has had to change many plans, I can completely understand this. (Certain reactions on various forums regarding the changes many games go through make me glad I'm not a game developer. lol) The full game will still come out - just in episodes. I'm okay with that. Others may not be, but there's always the option to wait until the entire game is out, which I see many are doing.

Also, count me as another one who had no disappointment with Dreamfall whatsoever. Sure I could have done without the combat and stealth (which luckily will not be a part of Chapters), and it wasn't quite on the level of the original, but it's still one of my favorite games. Everything I've seen of Chapters so far makes me think I'll like it even more. smile And I'm sure we'll get answers on April. I think the fact that Sarah Hamilton is doing a voice in Chapters is a broad hint regarding this. Ragnar is just not going to spoil anything before the game comes out, which makes perfect sense to me. smile
Posted By: Mad

Re: Dreamfall Chapters will feature 5 Episodes beginning Autumn 2014 - 07/03/14 07:24 PM

Yes. I, for one, have read what was there, BrownEyedTigre. But even so I'm disappointed at the unexpected and long wait ahead.

I rarely pledge for games being released in "episodes" because there is often such a long interval between each one. And there's five to wait for this time.

So, Dreamfall Chapters (as with any other episodic game) will be left alone by me until all episodes are available rolleyes
Posted By: BubbaJake

Re: Dreamfall Chapters will feature 5 Episodes beginning Autumn 2014 - 07/04/14 08:43 PM

I wasn't able to read the entire informative laid out here, but if you're saying you have to do in in 5 parts (?) I am on board. I've loved and played TLJ and DreamFall, and there are NO WORDS to describe my feelings for these games. I've been having weather related problems with my internet lately, so this is my situation. PLEASE, do what you must! THIS GAMER is here and wanting to continue the story.
Posted By: Thorsgoats

Re: Dreamfall Chapters will feature 5 Episodes beginning Autumn 2014 - 07/05/14 01:32 AM

I really don't have any problem with episodes either. They were using Kickstarter money to begin with; otherwise there wouldn't be any money to make the game. It also allowed them to make changes as they became necessary. If this is what they have to do, I don't have any problem with it and didn't know there was a problem until I read about it elsewhere. TellTale games are episodic, and I always look forward to a new episode from them. It shouldn't be any different with this game.
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