Death of a genre???

Is anyone still making 3pp P&C games any more? Some highly anticipated games recently have been a real disappointment. Lost Horizon 2, Yesterday Origins and Silence, to name a few, seem to have strayed from the path.
Whilst I appreciate there is a large audience for quick-time action games, I also know from reading posts on the GB forum, there are still quite a few of us who love things like Broken Sword, Deponia, MI (of course!), BoUT, Nelly Cootalot etc but no one seems to be making this type of game now. Is the genre dead?

A few recent point-and-clicks...

Kathy Rain
Barrow Hill: The Dark Path
The Last Crown: Midnight Horror
Demetrios
Order of the Thorne
etc.

Thanks Jenny100. I'm not that into first person games nor "old school". Yeah, yeah, yeah I know I'm really picky!!! Demetrios looks like it might be fun tho.
I'm just generally concerned about where the genre is headed these days. Why are so few around? Why is no one making games like the ones I mentioned?
By the way, Discworld trilogy would be great for remastering!

Mainly because making this sort of game is extremely time-consuming and the market is really not that big. It's tough to be able to bring a full game all the way through, which is why so many episodic games are springing up (I can understand why people aren't so keen on those though - neither are developers on the whole, but sometimes it's the only practical way to go ahead).

As an example, I would say that The Journey Down as successful. But even they had to go back to Kickstarter to fund the third and final episode. (I really would recommend playing The Journey Down if you haven't already btw.)

I speak as one who has been involved in several ambitious projects that would, I think, have been up your street (for instance The Journey of Iesir), that have had in the end had to be cancelled. Unless you have funding up front to set up a studio, it's really, really tough to make a complete, high quality pointandclick. in your spare time, and the teams that try to do so are usually based across the globe and never meet in real life, are in various time zones which can make communication less than ideal. I think really the best chance is for teams based in countries with low costs of living to crowd-fund initially.

I've heard the death of a genre for the last 10 years and yet they are still developing some great adventures. I don't know what 3PP is?

3rd Person Perspective I'm guessing?

The genre will never die of course, but in terms of mainstream publishing, it will probably never be a big player again. There are a lot of great games set to come out!

I was thinking though that the original question was related to a more modern graphical style than many of the popular 3rd person games that come out? Personally I still love 320x200 resolution! My hardware is useless and can't handle much anyway.

I, too, have heard the "Adventure Games Are Dead" stuff over and over for years. In fact I've heard it so many times it's become laughable !!
Maybe there aren't so many of the calibre we were spoiled by 10 or 20 years ago but for me there is still a good deal of Adventuring choice out there

Certainly there seem to be plenty of Indie Developers - around and still coming up - who are crafting good games for us.
And the now BIG companies would surely have started out as Indies ??
Look at Sierra's start ....

Plus many of the creators of Casuals are upping their production standards and who's to say some of those won't burst out with a fully fledged Adventure in the future ??

Yes. I concede that Adventure games have changed somewhat but not for the worse in that many aspects and in a volatile computer gaming market nothing is going to remain static

I am still very much enjoying Adventure Games

The "Adventure Games Are Dead" mantra started almost exactly 20 years ago, due to the commercial failure of some major adventure titles and the increased popularity of action games like Doom and Quake.

It's true that fewer adventure games are released now than in the early days of the personal computer, but I do believe that the average quality of the games released nowadays is much better. And there are still plenty of talented and very devoted game creators that have improved the genre since its "death", and most likely will continue to do so for a long time.

And we're still here, aren't we? If what they said 20 years ago would have been true, we wouldn't be sitting here discussing this, and certainly not on a forum like this.

In my humble opinion, the proliferation of means to make and distribute games, rather than rely on a commercial boxed release, has seen adventure games flourish. Certainly they can be a mixed bag, and may not meet your preferred sub-genre or configuration (fps, tps, keyboard/mouse etc, but I think generally we are spoiled for choice.

Very true. We would not be discussing this if it were dead and I am always delighted when a new game comes out (Journey Down is one of my faves btw and, yes, by 3pp I mean third person). Perhaps I have noticed more since taking early retirement a couple of years ago so more time on my hands.
I suppose the point I was making is that many of us have neither the reflexes, nor the inclination, to play QTEs, and many games now, although billed as adventure, seem to have a fair amount of this (King's Quest being a case in point) without the ability to skip and progress with the game. I hope that games in development, like Gibbous for example, don't fall into this trap.
I appreciate all the comments and take all points on board. I guess I'm just a dinosaur and very much hope I will be proved wrong in the future.

For a 'DEAD' genre there is a whole lot of life still in the bones.

Yep !!!!

It's more like "Dilution" of a genre... There may still be games like you want, but it's harder than ever to find what you want (or are able to play) because so many dexterity-oriented sub-genres are now considered adventure games. QTE's are being included in games that would otherwise have been appropriate for people with low dexterity, and the proliferation of autosave-only (instead of allowing manual saves) makes it difficult if not impossible to get a saved game from someone else to skip what amounts to an early and permanent game over.

I think that's a very accurate analysis, Jenny. Going along with what you said, I am sometimes now confronted with keyboard commands due to the game having been designed with porting to console/mobile as well - games that would be more suited to the use of a controller than a mouse and keyboard. So, dilution of a genre is a good way to describe it.

So, the games a lot of us want are still there, but they can indeed be harder to find.

Actually I recall lots of the original adventures had actiony quick action parts or stealth or other very difficult areas for me to get through. I think we tend to forget how they were because we are tired of it.

Not that many at the time when I started playing, and certainly not to this degree. There's a big difference between catching the tree elevator in Myst and coping with QTE's throughout an entire game. Some of the "stealth" in older games was simply knowing where to step rather than an actual "stealth" sequence that tracks how fast you move and when you move in relation to other things. Zork Nemesis had an annoying elevator puzzle that required a slowdown program or it would zip by faster than humanly possible on a PC only 4 years newer than the game. However it was not originally a difficult thing on computers in 1996, and the game was certainly not full of similar sequences. The game had actual puzzles to recommend it. And if you didn't want to use a slowdown program, saved games were easily transferred -- no complicated manipulations of an autosave that's buried in some sub-sub-subfolder of a hidden folder.

While there are still adventure games that don't require dexterity, they are harder to find (or filter for) than when I started playing adventure games around 1999. Games like Lost Horizon 2 and Silence: Whispered World 2 have QTE's where the original games did not. People who don't like dexterity challenges are being chased over to Casual games, where the developers do include things like puzzle skips. Too many adventure developers don't provide skips because they personally think the dexterity requirement is too low to warrant a skip. You'd think the developers of Lost Horizon 2 would have known better.

Such a pity about Lost Horizon 2. I wonder how sales of this did, pitched against the first game.

I thought the first game was a masterpiece but I didn't give LH 2 a second glance once i knew what the gameplay was likely to be.

I wonder if developers realise that changing the gameplay completely changes the potential market. They must do surely. Maybe the newer market is bigger?

Exactly!!! The last handful of posts have illustrated the point I was making. The odd timed event, such as getting the grog to the prison before it melted all the mugs in the Secret of MI may have been a bit frustrating but it was achievable. Even my favourite series, the Book of Unwritten Tales trilogy, had things like potion stirring and rain-dancing but stayed true to the genre in essence.

I too would be very curious to know if Silence and LH2 have done as well as the first games. Have the developers managed to engage the shoot-em-up generation or just lost their original supporters?

And thank you all for taking the time to contribute. First time I've ever instigated a real discussion like this.

OMG it's over 2 years since I started this thread but I'm still on the same old soapbox! I realised I only purchased 2 games in 2018, Detective Gallo, which was OK but a bit short and Tsioque...far too much QTE for me...again, although I did manage to finish it.

I'm sure I'm not the only one hoping (probably in vain) for another Book of Unwritten Tales after that cliffhanger ending but what do they do? Try to fund it with a kickstarter for another game which failed dismally instead of just getting on and trying to fund the game we actually would play.

I believe there was also some plan to continue the Broken Sword series but I haven't seen anything more.

I know I'm a picky old dinosaur but is there anything out there really worth playing? I have to content myself with a lot of casual games these days but they don't feed my craving.

HEEEEELP!

Well... Sorry for the self-promotion but we made our game specifically to be like the third person adventure games we loved in the 90; it's gone down extremely well with AG fans on the whole, particularly among long-time AG fans... So have a look, download the demo and see if it fits the bill for you.

https://captaind.itch.io/captain-disaster-in-death-has-a-million-stomping-boots

Have you looked at the games on the Adventure Games Studio database. Most of these are third person games - some are a bit ropey but a number are pretty professional. I make the occasional game using this system, and my largely third person adventure, "Adventure Island" is also on the GameBoomers Free Games list.

The only new adventure games I played last year were Unavowed and The Birdwatcher. I have heard good things about Unforeseen Incidents and Lamplight City, both of which I intend to play one day.

Otherwise, I played older adventure games from GOG as well as replayed some of my Nancy Drew games.

I would have thought any of the Wadjet Eye games would fit the bill, provided the graphic style is ok.
And in case you liked Neverhood, play Armikrog.
Apologies if I have misunderstood the parameters

As my SSD hard drive has only limited space for playing games, I've had to limit myself to playing games that don't use huge amounts of disk space, so have mostly played old games over the last year.

Just before Christmas however, GOG finally got Forgotton Anne, a platform adventure I'd been eying off for some time on Steam, and as they had it at a discounted price I purchased it and downloaded it.

I haven't played a platform game for decades and even then was not that good at the jumping and climbing, but decided to give Forgotton Anne a bash.

I'm glad I did. As well as having beautiful graphics, it also has a great story that compels you to continue playing through thick and thin. It is a long game and much to my surprise was not all that hard to play after mastering the platform moves on the keyboard (which are a bit clunky). It's a forgiving game, for if you fall you don't die, but can try and try again at leisure to progress. There are only two tricky parts where quickness is important. You cannot manually save, but auto saves execute fairly regularly when you reach certain locations in the game.

Admittedly I did consult walkthroughs, both video and text, when I was stuck and needed a hint on how to execute a move.

It plays seamlessly and is like an interactive Ghibli Studio movie. It's the most enjoyable and engaging game I've played for ages and I highly recommend it to any adventure gamer.

Thanks for your info on Forgotten Anne Winx. I looked at the game several times but declined buying it because of the platforming. Maybe someday when it is really cheap I'll take a chance.

Oldbroad, I was initially put off by the platforming as well, but if this old lady can master the keyboard controls anyone can.

Thanks everyone. I have played many of the "old school" style games but the point is, I have no particular desire to "go back to the 90s" per se. I like the more up to date graphics where possible. Third person point and click in 2.5D is my ideal.

I had high hopes for the genre in the first 10 to 15 years of this millennium with games such as the Deponia series, the Ankh and Runaway trilogies, the Broken Sword series and BoUT trilogy and the remastering of some great old games (I did purchase Curse of MI last year although I don't think that was remastered) but the last handful of years have been, to put it mildly, disastrous!! Long awaited sequels turned into huge disappointment; I'm sure I don't need to even give them the courtesy of a mention!

I realise that funding is a massive issue and there are now so many different platforms to cater for these days. I was just hoping that someone somewhere out there might know of something that has slipped through my net.

It's such a shame that Sony, for example, have no desire to resurrect the Discworld games and I believe that many of the old studios/devs are now out of business. The great thing about the genre is that you have to actually THINK whilst being entertained instead of just maniacally pressing buttons and killing people!

Am I totally wasting my hopes that the likes of Daedalic and KingArt will continue to make these games?

"I'm not that into first person games nor "old school". Yeah, yeah, yeah I know I'm really picky!!!"

And that's where your problem lies.
From all the points you make (not just those I've quoted above) it's obvious that you are looking for something that no longer exists and, sadly, is probably not likely to ever exist again

LOTS of us would like to see that wonderful "Adventures of Old" quality in modern games.
Of course we would.
However, it's a case of having to move with the times and choose from the best of what is available to us.

By being selective, I have not found it too difficult to find enjoyable Adventure games - despite the well published "death of the genre" so many years ago.
To my mind, the genre is most definitely still alive and kicking with some Indie Writers being extremely good

That's the reply I was hoping NOT to get!

But I quote "LOTS of us would like to see that wonderful "Adventures of Old" quality in modern games.
Of course we would. "

I guess that pretty much answers my point. There ARE still lots of us wanting to play this sort of game but clearly they DON'T exist now. Very sad that no one wants to make them now as there is obviously still a market albeit a small one.

I was hoping for some more positive news but, heyho, I guess I'll just have to keep watching and hope that one day someone will want to resurrect this genre. I do appreciate it has evolved (although perhaps not necessarily always for the better) and that I AM a dinosaur!

Maybe if I wish hard enough......

I do play plenty of other games. I'm currently playing Demon Hunter 5 but I'm also replaying Heaven's Hope.

I would personally start by going to the main GB page and checking out the latest reviews and releases to see if something catches your eye. Our reviewers do a great job in describing the games.

The genre is far from dead and I believe the Indie's are doing an incredible job at keeping it alive.

I didn't know about that game Winx but who could resist something described as an interactive Studio Ghibli
Am downloading now!

I check in at least once a week. I know there are some reasonable games out there. I'm hoping there'll be more chapters of "Midnight at the Celestial Palace" and I'll probably try Tango and Lamplight City.

Although 3PP point and click is my preferred genre I'm not a total Luddite so definately open to suggestions.

So the Luddites were right. Their jobs really were in danger.

It's too bad there aren't more 3rd person 2.5D games like Lost Horizon that use point-and-click controls. I don't enjoy 3rd person 3D games that keep swinging the camera around and messing up your control.

+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+

EDIT -- My favorite type of adventure games are the type that were sold when I first started playing computer games -- 1st person adventure or puzzle/adventure games that are node-based, with or without panning. Unfortunately nearly all 1st person adventure games use 3D movement now, and cause intense nausea.

I prefer 1st person adventures but that's because it makes the view better, a less obstructed view imo. But since the graphics are the main thing for me then I'll take 3PP to have great images. Always hoping for more realistic and detailed visuals.

And I have the picky requirement that it's full motion and movement, so I've moved away from point and click and toward movement like in Uru. Not to say I don't have some fond memories of all those point and click adventures like the Legacy of Time series, Riven, the Atlantis series and The Longest Journey (the first one of the series.)

to GameBoomers, DigiJockey4.

Thank you.

Just wanted to say thanks for some of the recommendations. Just finished Unforeseen Incidents and currently playing Lamplight City and ...yes.... Captain Disaster! Yaay!

Yay!

I know our game isn't as polished graphically as the others you mention but I really hope that in terms of the actual game and puzzle design, you will find it's at least partway to what you're looking for.