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#1027119 - 08/08/15 11:31 AM Windows 10 and Games
Draclvr Online   content
Hints & Glitches forum Moderator
Adept Boomer

Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 12776
Loc: In Missouri near St. Louis
Has it really been three years again? Microsoft released Windows 10 on July 29th and it's time to see how our games are going to fare. I'm up to my ears in tomatoes right now, but will begin testing games as time allows. RebKean is also testing out a lot of games, so I will edit this post whenever I can.

Windows 10 was released as an update, so unless people downloaded the OS as an image and did a clean installation, it updated your previous system with files and programs intact. I've noticed that all the games I already had on the system are playing. But that doesn't mean there won't be issues with installing them. So I will try to differentiate and test them both ways.

As before, unless otherwise noted, these are all original CD or DVD versions of the games and I installed to the default location of C:\Program Files (x86). I have played each of the games to where I interact with inventory items by picking them up and using them, saving a game, exiting the game and loading a saved game. I’ve made sure dialogue trees work and the sound and video behave as they are intended.

We will also assume that if Big Fish Games, GOG and STEAM indicate a game works on Windows 10, that will be the case.

YOU WILL NOTICE THAT I'VE RUN INTO SEVERAL GAMES WHICH INSTALL, BUT WILL NOT LAUNCH. I FOUND THIS FROM A MODERATOR AT ONE OF THE MICROSOFT FORUMS:
Quote:
Hi, We are currently working on this issue. Thank you.


So, without further ado, these are my computer specs. I am running Windows 10 Pro.

Drac's Desktop
Processor - Ivy Bridge Core i5 @ 3.6 GHtz
Disk drive - 1 TB WD Velociraptor
Video Card - Nvidia Geforce GTX Overclocked 660Ti
Ram - 8 GB
Sound Card - Creative SB X-Fi

RebKean has two computers.

RebKean's Laptop
Windows 10 Home 64-bit
CPU: Intel core i5 3317U @ 1.70 GHz Ivy Bridge 22nm Technology
RAM: 4.00 GB
Graphics: Generic PnP Monitor, Intel HD Graphics 4000
HardDrives: 456 GB Seagate ST500LT012-9WS142 (SATA)/ 22 GB SanDisk SSD U100 24 GB (SSD)
Sound: VIA HD Audio

RebKean's Desktop
Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
CPU: AMD FX(tm)-4100 Quad-Core Processor 3.60 GHz
RAM: 8,00 GB
Graphics: AMD Radeon HD 6700 Series
HardDrives: OCZ VERT EX PLUS SCSI Disk Device / SAMSUNG HD154UI SCSI Disk Device
Sound: AMD high Definition Audio Device

RebKean had these games already installed on the laptop and all played with no problems.

The Sims 4
All of the Carol Reed games
Zumas revenge (Origin)
Theme hospital (Origin)
Sim City 2000 special edition (Origin)
Ultima 8 gold edition (Origin)
Syndicate (Origin)
Crime line
Criminal minds
CSI NY
Cute Knight Deluxe
Cute Knight Kingdom
Escape, special bundle edition
Fairway solitaire collectors edition
Fashion solitaire
Jewel Quest mysteries bundle
Jewel Quest solitaire
Jojo's fashion show wolrd tour
Mytery P.I series
Odium (aka Gorky 17)
Papers please
Puzzler World 2013
The Stanley Parable
Plague Inc evolved (Steam)

I'm just going to start with a few games and then organize them later.

Al Emmo and the Lost Dutchman's Mine, 2006 - Installed and played.

American McGee's Alice, 2000 - Despite trying installing to another folder, installing from the setup file on the disk in compatibility mode, using compatibility mode on the desktop shortcut and Run as administrator, the game will not launch. I get as far as the User Account Control to say "yes," and then nothing happens. The game is installed on my drive just fine... it just won't launch and there are no error messages.

A Vampyre Story, 2010 - Well, it's not looking good for this one either. It installs perfectly, but the game will not launch. Uninstalled, ran CCleaner and then installed in C:\... Still won't launch and again, no error messages. Tried Run as Administrator and various compatibility modes.

Bioshock, 2007 - Installed and played.

Bioshock 2, 2010 - Installed and played

Caesar IV, 2006 - Upsydaisy says it installed and played on her Windows 10.

Darkfall The Journal, 2002 - Installed and played.

Dracula Resurrection, 2000 - Installed and played. However, an initial error message said the game wasn't compatible. So I went to the disk, right clicked on the Install file and ran the compatibility trouble shooter. It selected XP SP3 and when I clicked on Test, the game ran perfectly. After I saved and exited, I then clicked on Next and indicated the compatibility mode worked and it should be saved. The last screen said the game had been fixed.

Dracula, The Last Sanctuary, 2001 - Installed and played... same as above. Rejoice for these two games!

Gabriel Knight 3, 1999 - Stella over at Mystery Manor had the disk version of this game. RCB posted this work-around and as Stella says, she is now playing it in all its pixelated glory!

First thing you'll need is an installer patch that allows all the discs to be loaded on your hard drive. The one I'm using can be found ***HERE*** under the G's. Use this instead of the GK3.exe that comes on the first cd. You will be prompted to load the discs as the game is installed at default location: C:/Sierra/Gabriel Knight 3. At the end you may be asked to set up game configuration. Chose no because it's a good idea to know where that option is located.

Game Configuration:
Go to the Gabriel Knight 3 folder and look for Configure GK3.exe. Highlight the full screen rectangle and select 1024x768. Save.

First Time Running:
This installation didn't create a desktop short cut but the new launch file in the main folder is named Gabriel Knight 3.exe. The date of the file should be something like 9/1/2014. I'd recommend sending this to the desktop for convenience since it is necessary to apply compatibility options. Note that the original GK3.exe (1999) is still present but don't touch it. Game Compatibility Mode Settings: I know it's tempting but DO NOT change to a different (older) operating system, leave it alone. What you do need to do though is check the box for reduced color mode - 16 bit (65536) color.
Apply.
Next step is start the game. After the intro and you get control of the game right click to get the 'in game' option menu. Select Configuration Options - Advanced Options - Graphics Options. Turn off (unselect) Incremental Rendering and set the game resolution to 1024x768. Note that if each time you start the game and get a notice like frame buffer overload you will need to reset the resolution from 640x480 back to 1024x768.


Keepsake, 2006 - Installed and played.

Last Half of Darkness, Beyond the Spirit's Eye, 2007 - Installed, but I get an error - "d3drm.dll file is missing." Although I may be wrong, I believe this indicates the game has some form of DRM.

EDIT -- d3drm.dll is from an old version of Direct3D and gets its name from "Direct3D Retained Mode" See post from James Mcquellin ***here*** for possible fix.

Mass Effect, 2010 - Installed and played.

Oblivion, 2005 - Installed and played.

Scratches, 2006 - This one made me nervous. It was already installed, but would not launch or recognize that the CD was in the drive. I uninstalled and then reinstalled. The first time I clicked on Play, the taskbar stayed on the screen and the game was all jittery. Maybe Jenny100 or Inland will know if the fact that I got a popup to update my Adobe Air right on top of the jittery game had anything to do with the game. I updated Adobe Air and was able to quit the game. When I relaunched the game, it played just fine. Spent about 1/2 hour in it. Whew! I love this game.

Sybera I, 2003 - Installs, but will not launch. Tried the usual.

Syberia II, 2004 - Installs, but will not launch. See above.

The Hobbit, 2003 - Interesting. This one is already installed and played just fine. But I am unable to uninstall through any of the normal methods to check and see if it will install. The uninstaller is not compatible. I even tried Revo...

Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines, 2004 - Installs, but will not launch. What a disappointment.


Edited by Draclvr (02/12/16 05:59 PM)
_________________________
In my PC corner for the winter, gaming, knitting and reading.

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#1029521 - 08/25/15 09:43 PM Re: Windows 10 and Games [Re: Draclvr]
Draclvr Online   content
Hints & Glitches forum Moderator
Adept Boomer

Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 12776
Loc: In Missouri near St. Louis
So after a few weeks of testing games, I'm coming to the conclusion that Windows 10 is going to be really "hit or miss" when it comes to games on CD or DVD. I'm finding information on the internet that the OS is blocking anything that remotely resembles DRM.

While no one loathes DRM any more than me, I find this a bit too bossy. Let ME decide if I want this, not Microsoft. Anyway, I will keep my eyes open for anything that helps us out, but we all know Microsoft is not going to do anything about it.

Windows 10 has a lot going for it and I like the OS very much. But there is a reason I have a dual boot computer with Windows 7 on another hard disk drive and even another separate computer with good old Window XP on it. My daily use for 90% of what I do will be on my Windows 10, but when I feel like replaying something like Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines, I will boot up my Windows 7.
_________________________
In my PC corner for the winter, gaming, knitting and reading.

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#1029522 - 08/25/15 10:01 PM Re: Windows 10 and Games [Re: Draclvr]
oldbroad Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 04/01/06
Posts: 3134
Loc: Chicago
Thanks for the update and bad news Draclvr!

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#1029605 - 08/26/15 11:46 AM Re: Windows 10 and Games [Re: Draclvr]
Jenny100 Offline
GB Reviewer Glitches Moderator
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 10/24/00
Posts: 38345
Loc: southeast USA
Originally Posted By: Draclvr
I'm finding information on the internet that the OS is blocking anything that remotely resembles DRM.

I don't think the problem is related to Windows 10 blocking DRM.
Oblivion, Bioshock, and Mass Effect contain some of the worst DRM there is, yet they are playing.

I think the problem is more that Microsoft chose to support the big selling, popular games like Oblivion, Bioshock, and Mass Effect rather than supporting old adventure games.

About "Beyond the Spirit's Eye"...
"D3drm.dll is missing" is related to DirectX.

"D3drm.dll is missing" is an error that also happened with Windows 7 and 8. One person in ***Microsoft forums*** claims d3drm.dll is from an old version of Direct3D and gets its name from "Direct3D Retained Mode" -- nothing to do with DRM.
One person found a fix for the problem in Windows 7
Quote:
Placing the missing dll in the OS root and with the TopoUSA4's executable actually worked after a reboot.

I don't know if that will work for Windows 10. It may be that the game comes with the file but it doesn't install on Windows 10 -- at least where Windows 10 can find it.

About.com has an article on ***How To Fix D3drm.dll Not Found or Missing Errors*** and says you can restore d3drm.dll from a DirectX package (so you don't have to download d3drm.dll from an unknown source on the Internet) and gives more complete instructions here
http://pcsupport.about.com/od/fixtheproblem/ht/restoredx9dll.htm
I have not tried extracting it though, and don't know for sure if d3drm.dll is included with the latest DirectX.

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#1029627 - 08/26/15 01:57 PM Re: Windows 10 and Games [Re: Jenny100]
Marian Offline
Global Moderator
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 07/04/00
Posts: 31708
Loc: near Yosemite in California
For what it's worth, I see some folks on Steam reporting that they have Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines running on Windows 10, and other folks reporting issues with it (the CD retail version was also being discussed).

The success stories mostly involved getting around the SafeDisc copy protection and then running the game in compatibility mode for Windows XP Service Pack 3.

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#1029632 - 08/26/15 02:15 PM Re: Windows 10 and Games [Re: Draclvr]
Draclvr Online   content
Hints & Glitches forum Moderator
Adept Boomer

Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 12776
Loc: In Missouri near St. Louis
Thank you, Jenny. I was hoping you would clarify some things here. This is just one of several articles I've read about Windows 10 and DRM.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/08/windows-10-wont-run-games-with-securom-drm-says-microsoft-2/

Supposedly Vampire Bloodlines doesn't have any DRM. I'd like to find out why so many games like that one and American McGee's Alice. Syberia etc. install just fine, but simply will not launch. I'm hardly expecting every older CD or DVD game to play, but I'd like to know WHY. Give me an error message or something.

Marian, do you know if these are downloaded Steam Bloodlines games?



_________________________
In my PC corner for the winter, gaming, knitting and reading.

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#1029634 - 08/26/15 02:18 PM Re: Windows 10 and Games [Re: Draclvr]
Marian Offline
Global Moderator
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 07/04/00
Posts: 31708
Loc: near Yosemite in California
Drac, the CD retail versions were also being discussed in regards to this issue, with a resolution to the problem as described above. I am not sure if with the download version anyone was having to jump through any hoops.

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#1029635 - 08/26/15 02:20 PM Re: Windows 10 and Games [Re: Draclvr]
Draclvr Online   content
Hints & Glitches forum Moderator
Adept Boomer

Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 12776
Loc: In Missouri near St. Louis
I will have to check it out... I kind of got a kick out of this article scolding PC gamers!

http://www.vg247.com/2015/08/19/the-windows-10-drm-debacle-welcome-to-reality-pc-people/
_________________________
In my PC corner for the winter, gaming, knitting and reading.

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#1029636 - 08/26/15 02:47 PM Re: Windows 10 and Games [Re: Draclvr]
Marian Offline
Global Moderator
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 07/04/00
Posts: 31708
Loc: near Yosemite in California
Funny article!

I love this:

Quote:
Can’t upgrade to Windows 10 because their entire existence revolves around playing Anachronox on one PC, and one PC only.


That's kind of how I feel about Zanzarah. lol

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#1029638 - 08/26/15 02:54 PM Re: Windows 10 and Games [Re: Draclvr]
Jenny100 Offline
GB Reviewer Glitches Moderator
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 10/24/00
Posts: 38345
Loc: southeast USA
You reported that Bioshock (2007) and Mass Effect (2010) both installed and played, yet those games used SecuROM v7 and the Arstechnica article claimed they wouldn't play. So unless you didn't use disc versions of those games, the Arstechnica article isn't correct. Maybe Microsoft changed their mind and specifically allowed exceptions for certain DRM's (or those for certain games) to get through. Either that or they'd have had to integrate a patch that removed the DRM, which doesn't seem likely.

American McGee's Alice used SafeDisc v2.
Syberia also used SafeDisc v2.
Syberia 2 used some sort of SafeDisc -- one would assume v2 or later since it was released after Syberia 1.

It would be strange to block old versions of SafeDisc while permitting something much more invasive like SecuROM v7. Not that Microsoft is logical, but I would guess the incompatibilities are by accident, or there is something about the game other than the DRM that's causing the problem. GOG versions of games often update the game for newer systems as well as removing DRM. For example they might use a workaround for games that use features of old video cards that are no longer supported. I've seen Glide integrated in several of their installs, and I'm pretty sure I saw dgvoodoo in at least one of their game folders (read about dgvoodoo at ***VOGONS***). I've also seen old DirectX files in some of their game folders that may not have been installed there in the original CD versions.

If you Google for the name of a game and NoCD, you'll find that there's at least one NoCD website that identifies the type of DRM that was used on the disc version. If you want to try NoCD's, there's always the problem of whether a detected infection is a false positive or not, since free packers are often flagged as malware.

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#1029656 - 08/26/15 04:38 PM Re: Windows 10 and Games [Re: Draclvr]
Draclvr Online   content
Hints & Glitches forum Moderator
Adept Boomer

Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 12776
Loc: In Missouri near St. Louis
No, as I state in the initial post, I'm using original CDs or disks. That is sort of odd... although the first article did say it was "certain versions" of SecuROM.

At least for the Bioshock games, they are from Games for Windows Live, so maybe they made exceptions for their own games.

And that would definitely explain the reason why Alice and the Syberia games wouldn't launch. A Vampyre Story must use something similar since that one won't launch either. I tried to find sources that would tell me what if any DRM is used with any of these games. I finally used Safedisk in my search and found a page with a list.

Marian, when I read that article a few days ago, I thought the exact same thing - sort of the way I feel about Zanzarah! lol
_________________________
In my PC corner for the winter, gaming, knitting and reading.

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#1029666 - 08/26/15 05:54 PM Re: Windows 10 and Games [Re: Draclvr]
Trail_Mystic Offline
Dragon Breath - Darkside Moderator
BAAG Specialist

Registered: 02/12/04
Posts: 6060
Loc: Wisconsin
As an FYI, Microsoft has a Compatibility Center for Windows 10 at this URL: http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/compatibility/CompatCenter/Home

Just type in the name of the program or game and if it's been previously tested it will show if it's been deemed compatible.
I picked a few random games to test it out and found they did show Cyan's Myst 10th Anniversary Collection and Riven: The Sequel to Myst as compatible. Interestingly enough some of the newer enhanced versions such as Myst Masterpiece Edition was not compatible and Revelation was listed with a "?", meaning no information. I also found that of the Elder Scrolls games, Skyrim was compatible, but not Morrowind or Oblivion. They even had Baldur's Gate listed as compatible, but sadly the Enhanced edition was not.

So, check the search. They may have the more popular games and programs listed. smile

Update: I've temporarily stuck out parts of my post above because it appears that Microsoft has completely changed the webpage that previously existed at the link I listed above. If I can verify that they have moved the feature to check software compatibility and or locate the link I'll update this post again.


Edited by Trail_Mystic (10/07/15 04:22 PM)
Edit Reason: struck out currently non-applicable info
_________________________
"L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux."

What is essential is invisible to the eyes.

The Foxes Secret from The Little Prince by Antoine de Saint Exupéry




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#1029667 - 08/26/15 06:09 PM Re: Windows 10 and Games [Re: Draclvr]
Jenny100 Offline
GB Reviewer Glitches Moderator
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 10/24/00
Posts: 38345
Loc: southeast USA
Originally Posted By: Draclvr
A Vampyre Story must use something similar since that one won't launch either.

A Vampyre Story used SecuROM v7.
It's one of very few games where the developer released a patch that removed the DRM. Too many people couldn't get their legitimately purchased versions of the game to start.

Quote:
I tried to find sources that would tell me what if any DRM is used with any of these games. I finally used Safedisk in my search and found a page with a list.

For example, google

Vampyre Story nocd

and the first link that comes up is the one that tells the type of DRM the game uses. Not always -- sometimes it just says "CD checks" or something similar. But it's the most comprehensive site I've found. Most other nocd sites just give you the nocd without telling you what DRM was on it.

I never had much problem with older versions of SafeDisc beyond delaying the startup of the game. I'm not familiar with versions that are more recent than SafeDisc v3. However SafeDisc v4 had a vulnerability in their secdrv.sys driver that is discussed on Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safedisc#SafeDisc_.28V4.29
That may be what Microsoft is blocking, though I'm not sure if SafeDisc v2 used secdrv.sys and it may only be the v4 version that has the vulnerability.

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#1029671 - 08/26/15 06:21 PM Re: Windows 10 and Games [Re: Draclvr]
Draclvr Online   content
Hints & Glitches forum Moderator
Adept Boomer

Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 12776
Loc: In Missouri near St. Louis
I tried a Google search for games with safeDisk and came up with a site... I notice it also has a lot of the NoCD options too.

I finally found somthing about that patch for A Vampyre Story.. Found one like that was supposed to be for the patch, but was taken to someone's blog about iphones!

I notice that compatibility site lists Vampire Bloodlines as compatible.
_________________________
In my PC corner for the winter, gaming, knitting and reading.

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#1029672 - 08/26/15 06:32 PM Re: Windows 10 and Games [Re: Draclvr]
Jenny100 Offline
GB Reviewer Glitches Moderator
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 10/24/00
Posts: 38345
Loc: southeast USA
Originally Posted By: Draclvr
I finally found somthing about that patch for A Vampyre Story.. Found one like that was supposed to be for the patch, but was taken to someone's blog about iphones!

The old link for the game's website no longer works.
However it's available at the Web Archive ***here***
The link on the Web Archive also works to download the patch.

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