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#1112656 - 06/03/17 05:49 PM Re: Installation instructions for vintage "Rome: Caesar's Will" on Windows 8 [Re: RichAlexis]
Jenny100 Offline
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I couldn't find Louvre/The Messenger at first.
Apparently I didn't think it was "historical" enough to be on the same shelf with my historical games. I do remember I didn't like the main character -- thought she was murderous.

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#1112826 - 06/05/17 12:09 PM Re: Installation instructions for vintage "Rome: Caesar's Will" on Windows 8 [Re: Jenny100]
Iurii Offline
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Yes, those merges are quite a long story!

In short, as far as my knowledge goes, there was Index company founded by Emmanuel Olivier, who added "+" to its name a little bit later. They often colaborated with France Télécom Multimédia - and in 2000 they merged into one company Wanadoo Edition, just in time for 'Genesys' new box look smile
I am not sure why they asked another little company Galiléa to develop it and other games - maybe some people left them after the merge.
And in 2003 Microids bought it all (with Olivier becoming its CEO).

Anne Carriere Multimedia - now, that's more interesting! Anne is from the old family of Parisian book sellers and publishers, and when her son Stefan cofounded Arxel Tribe company, his mother helped them a lot - like by providing the rights to Paulo Coelho (whose books were published in French by Anne Carriere) for 'Piligrim'. So she was like a coproducer with Arxel Tribe, and Cryo often was their partner as well. To say nothing of Réunion des Musées Nationaux who helped to make almost all historical adventures.
They sure were like a big family smile


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#1112828 - 06/05/17 12:31 PM Re: Installation instructions for vintage "Rome: Caesar's Will" on Windows 8 [Re: Iurii]
RichAlexis Offline
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Registered: 06/21/13
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Loc: The Netherlands
Thanks, Iurii, for clearing up some of the considerable confusion! thumbsup

It's nice to know that Paulo Coelho developed three games with Arxel Tribe as part of this deal. I've only recently come across his name in relation to games.

It must have been hard for those companies to plan the design and production of their games, when so many partners merged or folded, and funding was limited. You can imagine that's where some of these aborted projects, postponed releases and flawed implementations come from. Not that they are unique to this set of games, but I reckon they played a large part in them.

Though "one big family" is a far more positive characterization, I agree!

Best,

Rich

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#1112841 - 06/05/17 02:05 PM Re: Installation instructions for vintage "Rome: Caesar's Will" on Windows 8 [Re: RichAlexis]
Jenny100 Offline
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Very interesting, Iurii. Are any of those companies still around?

Originally Posted By: RichAlexis
It's nice to know that Paulo Coelho developed three games with Arxel Tribe as part of this deal. I've only recently come across his name in relation to games.

You mean Pilgrim, Legend of the Prophet, and Secrets of Alamut?
Those are the ones I know about.

Dreamcatcher sold Legend of the Prophet and Secrets of Alamut in the same box in North America. I didn't realize that at the time, and thought Dreamcatcher had only published the first half of the story. So I bought both Legend of the Prophet and Secrets of Alamut from overseas.

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#1112846 - 06/05/17 02:31 PM Re: Installation instructions for vintage "Rome: Caesar's Will" on Windows 8 [Re: Jenny100]
Mad Offline
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I don't remember where I bought Legend of the Prophet and Secrets of Alamut but mine both came in the same box, too yes
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#1112863 - 06/05/17 03:50 PM Re: Installation instructions for vintage "Rome: Caesar's Will" on Windows 8 [Re: Jenny100]
RichAlexis Offline
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Registered: 06/21/13
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Loc: The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Jenny100
You mean Pilgrim, Legend of the Prophet, and Secrets of Alamut?
Those are the ones I know about.

Yes, these three. Wikipedia happens to be a very extensive source on this subject:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilgrim:_Faith_as_a_Weapon

And concept art by Moebius (Jean Giraud)! I actually own two of his comic books, and he was also designer for movies like TRON, Alien (though the Alien itself was created by Swiss artist Hans Giger), Willow and The Abyss.

Best,

Rich

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#1112914 - 06/05/17 11:29 PM Re: Installation instructions for vintage "Rome: Caesar's Will" on Windows 8 [Re: RichAlexis]
Iurii Offline
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Jenny100, as far as I know, only Microïds is still alive. And it is no longer a company - just a trade mark of Anuman who bought the brand Microïds in 2010 (it was merged with MC2 and Wanadoo in 2003 but made a label again by Olivier in 2007). I am not sure if Emmanuel Olivier is still there. But at least Benoit Sokal is.
And Anne Carriere books are still alive of course. It seems they are no longer engaged in games.

RichAlexis, concept art of Moebius for 'Pilgrim' is great indeed! I have a French collector's edition with the third disk showing his graphic work. Too bad the 3D characters of the game have little to do with his superb drawings...

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#1112930 - 06/06/17 07:17 AM Re: Installation instructions for vintage "Rome: Caesar's Will" on Windows 8 [Re: Iurii]
RichAlexis Offline
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Originally Posted By: Iurii
Concept art of Moebius for 'Pilgrim' is great indeed! I have a French collector's edition with the third disk showing his graphic work. Too bad the 3D characters of the game have little to do with his superb drawings...
Hi Iurii,

What a complicated company history! No wonder people lose track.

Great to have these editions with making of's and the like! I love them. I guess the transfer of the designs was plagued by the 'curse of the polygons' at the time. If you wanted to create moving figures with some interaction, greater realism and detail wasn't possible.

Which is why I think it's a pity in general that adventure games became a sort of marginal genre after the turn of the millennium, or relegated to small-scale, low-res platforms like tablets and smartphones.

Just to think what would have been possible with historical or fantasy games like the ones we mentioned with the graphic resolution available now! Similar to CGI in movies: wonderful potential, but rarely applied to do more than shock and thrill, or create fake surroundings and extras (i.e. anonymous bit players) on the cheap, not to develop an immersive experience you can enjoy at leisure.

Best,

Rich

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#1112990 - 06/06/17 02:35 PM Re: Installation instructions for vintage "Rome: Caesar's Will" on Windows 8 [Re: RichAlexis]
Mad Offline
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Registered: 11/21/00
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"Which is why I think it's a pity in general that adventure games became a sort of marginal genre after the turn of the millennium, or relegated to small-scale, low-res platforms like tablets and smartphones."

I can't agree with you there, RichAlexis ....

I have purchased and played many excellent Adventures on my PC since the turn of the millennium !! rolleyes
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Time : The Most Precious Commodity

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#1113005 - 06/06/17 04:14 PM Re: Installation instructions for vintage "Rome: Caesar's Will" on Windows 8 [Re: RichAlexis]
Jenny100 Offline
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I'd agree with Rich Alexis about adventure games being marginalized. They were marginalized from before I'd even started playing them. That doesn't mean there weren't any being made after year 2000, but there weren't any being made with the really big budgets to rival other genres. Compare to the early to mid 1990's, when there were FMV adventure games being made that were very expensive to produce and had huge budgets for the time.

Do you know of a single modern adventure game that offers an experience like walking down the street in ancient Rome? or Greece? or Egypt? or more recent time periods, like 18th century London? or the time of Leonardo da Vinci? There are older games from developers like Cryo that simulate this kind of thing as best they can using 2D images. But they are still images. I don't remember any that had animations like a breeze stirring tree branches or birds in the sky, and they certainly don't have lighting effects to simulate the sun moving across the sky during the day from morning to afternoon.

As far back as Myst IV there were scenes in adventure games with animations, more recently Dear Esther. But these are not (and never were) real places. They may look pretty with the tree branches blowing around and the realistic "live" look of the scenes, but they aren't historical and have nothing to teach about the way people used to live or what it was like to live in ancient times.

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#1113016 - 06/06/17 05:56 PM Re: Installation instructions for vintage "Rome: Caesar's Will" on Windows 8 [Re: RichAlexis]
RichAlexis Offline
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Registered: 06/21/13
Posts: 192
Loc: The Netherlands
Thanks for the replies! Well, I try to express myself as cautiously as possible, and I'm still on a learning curve, so I still need to check out lists of more recent adventure games to "play before you die". wink Like the list of 29 essential games posted in the general discussion section.

Yes, I was thinking of Dear Esther and some others as counterexamples.

I was referring, indeed, to the lack of bigger budgets and the fact that dozens of the companies that started and defined the genre, and employed a variety of very dedicated and talented people (graphic artists, historians, novelists, composers) have sadly gone bankrupt.

I just found two quotes on Wikipedia from a few years ago by LucasArts developers Ron Gilbert and Tim Schafer that illustrate my point:
Quote:
"From first-hand experience, I can tell you that if you even utter the words 'adventure game' in a meeting with a publisher you can just pack up your spiffy concept art and leave. You'd get a better reaction by announcing that you have the plague."

"If I were to go to a publisher right now and pitch an adventure game, they'd laugh in my face."

Best,

Rich

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#1113105 - 06/07/17 02:37 PM Re: Installation instructions for vintage "Rome: Caesar's Will" on Windows 8 [Re: RichAlexis]
Mad Offline
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Registered: 11/21/00
Posts: 27495
Loc: United Kingdom
I suppose it boils down to what you are looking for in an Adventure game ??

I have to admit that graphics are not the most important element for me.
I will look for storyline and friendly interface first.
So I don't need, for example, to be walking down a street in ancient times with accurately portrayed animated humans, wildlife, weather effects or flora & fauna etc, etc. wink

Which is probably why I haven’t felt deprived of good Adventure games during the last seventeen years, despite their “marginalization”.

However, like everyone else, I, too obviously lament the departure of the big name companies that once gave us such excellent games.

But speaking of Ron Gilbert ….
I am currently playing his new game - Thimbleweed Park - which although in the retro style of very early games like Monkey Island, I am finding it to be just plain excellent old school adventuring thumbsup
_________________________
Time : The Most Precious Commodity

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#1113118 - 06/07/17 04:08 PM Re: Installation instructions for vintage "Rome: Caesar's Will" on Windows 8 [Re: Mad]
RichAlexis Offline
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Registered: 06/21/13
Posts: 192
Loc: The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Mad
But speaking of Ron Gilbert ….
I am currently playing his new game - Thimbleweed Park - which although in the retro style of very early games like Monkey Island, I am finding it to be just plain excellent old school adventuring thumbsup
I see what you mean, Mad!

Speaking of lists of recent favourites, some weeks ago, someone posted on a Dutch game site that the Syberia 3 release was a big disappointment, but that fortunately there were enough new classy graphic adventure games around, like Thimbleweed Park, as you mentioned, Silence and What Remains of Edith Finch.

Each of these indeed looks very promising, both storywise and graphically, though as you say the deliberate retro style of TP may put some people off.

Best,

Rich

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#1113143 - 06/07/17 10:34 PM Re: Installation instructions for vintage "Rome: Caesar's Will" on Windows 8 [Re: RichAlexis]
Jenny100 Offline
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Registered: 10/24/00
Posts: 38391
Loc: southeast USA
Originally Posted By: Mad
I suppose it boils down to what you are looking for in an Adventure game ??

Well, we were mostly talking about historical adventure games in this thread. And as Rich Alexis said, it's possible to create much more realistic environments now than companies in the 1990's like Cryo could with the "Visit" modes in games like Pompeii (Timescape) or Egypt.

Quote:
I have to admit that graphics are not the most important element for me.

Unlike adventure games like Thimbleweed, historical games could benefit more from more realistic depictions that show more detail. We're talking about next-generation Cryo/Arxel/Wanadoo historical games, not next-generation LucasArts. The needs are different.

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#1113169 - 06/08/17 07:42 AM Re: Installation instructions for vintage "Rome: Caesar's Will" on Windows 8 [Re: Jenny100]
RichAlexis Offline
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Registered: 06/21/13
Posts: 192
Loc: The Netherlands
Quote:
Unlike adventure games like Thimbleweed, historical games could benefit more from more realistic depictions that show more detail. We're talking about next-generation Cryo/Arxel/Wanadoo historical games, not next-generation LucasArts. The needs are different.

It would certainly help improve my screen recordings of Visit Modes and the like for educational purposes in the classroom! wink Not that students were dismissive about them and other simulation graphics made about 15-20 years ago, from what I've heard. That's always a good thing to hear, that children needn't always be given the latest gadget or hype, like 4K resolution graphics, to keep them interested. In fact, a case can be made for the opposite as well, as long as you as a teacher show commitment, personal attention and insight, and provide a compelling narrative.

I think the educational potential of historical, strategy and simulation games has always been there, but is difficult to achieve in a school setting, and can hardly have improved sales for these companies substantially. Schools have always been understaffed and underfunded as far as technical investments and support are concerned, and in my own experience, investments in multimedia for students have always been problematic, not just because of the price tags, but also the need for ongoing maintenance and control, and also because, as we have noted, their notoriously short lifespans due to reliance on specific platform versions and third-party applications, and the unstable financial basis of these niche companies.

Add to this issues with saving and hacking (or similarly destructive or disruptive tendencies in a number of children) in a multiplayer school setting, and I can see why it's far easier to rely on books or makeshift media copies than on a complex high tech infrastructure.

The same goes for museums and other public exhibitions. Media displays are often out of order because of lack of funding and support, technical instability and vulnerability to abuse.

Therefore their potential is rarely realized.

Best,

Rich


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