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#1136651 - 12/28/17 02:17 PM Re: Windows 10 still free..... [Re: Winfrey]
Mikael Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 06/10/02
Posts: 600
Loc: Sweden
The only way to REALLY stop Windows 10 from updating is described at 2:25 in the video Winfrey links to in post #4.

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#1136733 - 12/29/17 02:18 AM Re: Windows 10 still free..... [Re: Draclvr]
Mad Offline
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 11/21/00
Posts: 28194
Loc: United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: Draclvr
I have always accused Apple of being too bossy and telling people what they wanted and didn't want. But Microsoft has gotten just as bad.


Well I have always felt that Microsoft behaved like a dictator !! lol12
_________________________
Time : The Most Precious Commodity

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#1136783 - 12/29/17 11:20 AM Re: Windows 10 still free..... [Re: Winfrey]
Draclvr Offline
Hints & Glitches forum Moderator
Adept Boomer

Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 13252
Loc: In Missouri near St. Louis
It used to be that Apple was in a class by itself, but Microsoft is right up there with them now.
_________________________
Heading out to the gardens...

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#1136798 - 12/29/17 02:36 PM Re: Windows 10 still free..... [Re: Winfrey]
Jenny100 Offline
GB Reviewer Glitches Moderator
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 10/24/00
Posts: 38920
Loc: southeast USA
Mac has terrible backwards support.
Windows is still the winner for supporting older programs and games, even though it's by no means 100% and compatibility with Windows 10 may fail with the next update.

About 10 years ago I bought an Intel iMac because it had a nice monitor, and at the time I was having trouble finding a good PC monitor. The iMac came with OS X 10.5 (aka Leopard). When I eventually "updated" the iMac to OS X 10.6 (aka Snow Leopard), some applications stopped working. Every year or two Apple "updates" their Mac OS version and there are programs that no longer work, including some programs that aren't much more than two years old. Here's the Wikipedia list of Mac OS releases showing how often they introduce a new one
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS_X#Release_history

OS X 10.7 eliminated support for Rosetta. The purpose of Rosetta was to allow the running of OS X programs developed for older Macs with a PowerPC processor on a newer Mac with an Intel processor. This included RealMyst, Alida, and a few other games for OS X that I had bought, and which would not run on my iMac without Rosetta.

Since Apple had no security updates for OS X 10.6 and kept trying to push OS 10.7 instead, that was the end of my using a Mac as my main computer. I took the iMac offline and went back to using a PC as my Internet computer. I had that iMac all set up to play DOS games with DOSBox and ScummVM, configured with soundfonts for much better midi sound in DOS games and tweaked to give the best picture. I also had VMware Fusion installed to play older Windows games. And I had Rosetta installed, and Sheepshaver for even older Mac games. All that took quite a bit of time and research to set up. I didn't want a new version of Mac OS with someone else's idea of what was important installed -- something that eliminated most of what I used the computer for and threw out all the work I'd done getting things working.

Even before that, Apple dropped support of Mac Classic with OS X 10.4 on Intel Macs. Support for Classic was dropped entirely with OS X 10.5. I can see where changing the type of processor might have made Classic not work -- but they didn't replace it with anything. Instead you had to use 3rd party software like Basilisk or Sheepshaver to play your old pre-OS X Mac games (games for Mac System 7, OS 8, or OS 9). Basilisk and Sheepshaver were more complicated to set up and really didn't work as well as Classic. Games on hybrid CD's (made for both Mac and PC) didn't work on Sheepshaver, and at the time Basilisk only worked with System 7.

And then there is the horror of iTunes. New versions of Mac OS X rely heavily on iTunes for buying Mac software -- and iTunes is an unholy mess. It constantly tries to shove stuff you don't want in your face while its search function barely functions at all. Even back when I was using OS X 10.5, when iTunes was more tractable, I used to Google the Mac software (or music) I was looking for instead of using the broken iTunes search.

Apple seems to be "targeting" customers who always have to have "the latest" even if it is poorer quality, less functional, and will stop working in the next couple of years. Apple used to be known for using good hardware, but now it's not built to last any more (if it does, it's an accident). Apple has done all they can to make it impossible for 3rd party repair companies to service Apple products -- including having their computers and tablets held together by glue. They want you to either buy a new one or pay exorbitant prices for repair at the Apple store. At the same time they advertise their products as "environmentally friendly" -- even though replacing an entire product is the opposite. Their products are also extremely hard to recycle in a cost-effective way because of the variety of materials used.

It's unfortunate that Microsoft decided to use some of Apple's bad habits, including pushing out a new version of their latest Windows every year or two with little or no regard for backward compatibility with programs or hardware.

Apple now uses some of Microsofts bad habits -- pushing out a new version of their OS without testing whether it breaks anything on their older products. They don't care -- after all, they want you to buy a new one every year, or even better, every 6 months.

But I'll say one thing for Apple -- I never had updates _forced_ on my Mac. I'd get notifications that an update was available, but I never had a Mac reboot while I was in the middle of doing something important, and I never lost hours of work because of an update forcing itself through at an inconvenient time, rebooting without warning for some update and not saving my work properly -- essentially doing the work of a virus.

Anyway, I don't trust either one, but Windows -- even Windows 10 -- is better for games than Mac. Mac was a viable alternative in the 1990's -- especially for QuickTime-based adventure games. But now you're much better off with Windows -- and even better if you have older computers with the older versions of Windows that are what the games were made for.

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#1136804 - 12/29/17 03:14 PM Re: Windows 10 still free..... [Re: Winfrey]
Draclvr Offline
Hints & Glitches forum Moderator
Adept Boomer

Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 13252
Loc: In Missouri near St. Louis
You must have been wandering around in my brain, Jenny! From Apple only supporting their current OS's for 2 to 3 years and breaking their own programs if you updated, to the iTunes mess to the customers who need "the latest" at absolutely ungodly prices.

I complain about Windows, but I will be sticking with it and keep my trusty old XP computer right here.
_________________________
Heading out to the gardens...

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#1136858 - 12/30/17 05:20 AM Re: Windows 10 still free..... [Re: Draclvr]
Mad Offline
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 11/21/00
Posts: 28194
Loc: United Kingdom
The only "Mac" items I have ever owned are iPads. And I have two.
My ancient iPad1 - which does still allow me to play the original and still my favourite versions of Angry Birds and surf the Web (although not much else).
And my current iPad3 - which will shortly be traded in for an iPad4 grin12

I mainly use iPads for just playing simple games, dealing with mail and surfing the Web.
I never buy "new" ones though. They are far too expensive. I use a trade in site that offers refurbished ones with 2 year guarantees.

My computers "proper" are for everything else and I have 3 machines .. Win98SE, WinXP and Win7 .. and love them all because between them I am able to play every game in my collection, even the DOS and Win95 ones.

Yes. I rant at Microsoft A LOT because they SO get on my nerves wink12
But obviously I would have lost out on many years of enjoyment without them and I have to acknowledge that.


_________________________
Time : The Most Precious Commodity

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#1136879 - 12/30/17 11:12 AM Re: Windows 10 still free..... [Re: Mad]
Creeping_Doom Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 11/28/11
Posts: 249
Couldn't pay me to own anything Apple , but that's just me . Microsoft deserves EVERY bit of heat they've received over the years , especially as is relates to Win 10 . However , as others have stated , without them , we would likely not have a platform to game on . With the impending end of the other "free" upgrade option , for those of use who want to , download the upgrade assistant , install Win 10 , then , if you want , immediately roll back to your previous OS . I say that , because , once you do the upgrade , you can do it again , regardless of how many times you do it , for free . Microsoft , at that point , already has your Win 10 license on file due to the upgrade you just performed . I've done this at least 4 times , never an issue .

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#1136882 - 12/30/17 12:19 PM Re: Windows 10 still free..... [Re: Winfrey]
Winfrey Offline
BAAG Specialist

Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 5832
Loc: The Country
Interesting
_________________________
Would that I could be the peacemaker in your soul that I might turn the discord and the rivalry of your elements into oneness and melody
Gibran

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#1136928 - 12/30/17 10:57 PM Re: Windows 10 still free..... [Re: Winfrey]
Mikael Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 06/10/02
Posts: 600
Loc: Sweden
I don't want to belittle anyone's problems discussed in this thread, but I can assure you that those constant changes in the operative systems (both Windows and Mac) are twice as complicated for us game designers.

The main gripe I have with Microsoft as a user is the incessant updates in Windows 10. But, as I pointed out in a previous post, there is a way to turn these off FOREVER (but still do them once in a while EXACTLY when you want to). This method is very easy and completely safe, although not mentioned by Microsoft anywhere (since they obviously want to control your PC much more than is necessary for you).

Other than that, the backwards compatibility has been much better since Vista, and Microsoft have declared Windows 10 "the last version of Windows". While this statement obviously must be taken with a grain of salt, it's highly unlikely that we'll see a Windows 11 (or whatever they would call it) in a long time. While they're still updating Windows 10 (far to often!), I don't think they'll have the guts to implement changes so vast that we'll have to worry about not being able to play this year's games next year (which was the case between Win 98/XP/Vista, and 7).

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#1136952 - 12/31/17 09:00 AM Re: Windows 10 still free..... [Re: Mikael]
Creeping_Doom Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 11/28/11
Posts: 249
Originally Posted By: Mikael
I don't want to belittle anyone's problems discussed in this thread, but I can assure you that those constant changes in the operative systems (both Windows and Mac) are twice as complicated for us game designers.

The main gripe I have with Microsoft as a user is the incessant updates in Windows 10. But, as I pointed out in a previous post, there is a way to turn these off FOREVER (but still do them once in a while EXACTLY when you want to). This method is very easy and completely safe, although not mentioned by Microsoft anywhere (since they obviously want to control your PC much more than is necessary for you).

Other than that, the backwards compatibility has been much better since Vista, and Microsoft have declared Windows 10 "the last version of Windows". While this statement obviously must be taken with a grain of salt, it's highly unlikely that we'll see a Windows 11 (or whatever they would call it) in a long time. While they're still updating Windows 10 (far to often!), I don't think they'll have the guts to implement changes so vast that we'll have to worry about not being able to play this year's games next year (which was the case between Win 98/XP/Vista, and 7).



I'm sure for designers , Win 10 , & all the changes , has got to be a royal pain the the backside . Speaking for myself as a user , I've no issues with leaving system updates on , I just want the option to choose which updates are installed , as I have that option in Win 7 & 8 . I also don't want Windows on my pc being used as an advertising platform , or for me to be spied upon . I also doubt that Microsoft will make the vast changes that would make playing this year's games difficult or impossible to play next year as well . Then again , with Microsoft limiting support for AMD's Ryzen & Intel's Kaby Lake cpu to Win 10 only , anything is possible . I would ask , from user to designer , how easy or difficult has it been to work inside the Win 10 environment ?

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#1136964 - 12/31/17 12:05 PM Re: Windows 10 still free..... [Re: Mikael]
Jenny100 Offline
GB Reviewer Glitches Moderator
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 10/24/00
Posts: 38920
Loc: southeast USA
Originally Posted By: Mikael
The only way to REALLY stop Windows 10 from updating is described at 2:25 in the video Winfrey links to in post #4.

Originally Posted By: Mikael
The main gripe I have with Microsoft as a user is the incessant updates in Windows 10. But, as I pointed out in a previous post, there is a way to turn these off FOREVER (but still do them once in a while EXACTLY when you want to). This method is very easy and completely safe, although not mentioned by Microsoft anywhere (since they obviously want to control your PC much more than is necessary for you).

I'm still wondering what this video was that you're referring to. Winfrey's link in post #1136280 points to a Google list and Winfrey's link in a post #1136288 points to an article at windowscentral.com, not a video.

Are you referring to telling the computer it has a metered connection? to disabling the update service? or some other fix?

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#1136991 - 12/31/17 04:16 PM Re: Windows 10 still free..... [Re: Winfrey]
Mikael Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 06/10/02
Posts: 600
Loc: Sweden
Originally Posted By: Jenny100
I'm still wondering what this video was that you're referring to. Winfrey's link in post #1136280 points to a Google list and Winfrey's link in a post #1136288 points to an article at windowscentral.com, not a video.

Sorry, I was referring to the first video that comes up on that Google search (at least on my computer):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTr8XuOBYZI

I'm talking about disabling the update service. It's described at 2:25 in the video.

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#1137006 - 12/31/17 06:45 PM Re: Windows 10 still free..... [Re: Winfrey]
Jenny100 Offline
GB Reviewer Glitches Moderator
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 10/24/00
Posts: 38920
Loc: southeast USA
Thank you for the information, Mikael.

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