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#120500 - 04/23/06 12:25 PM Indie Developers
manxman Offline
Adept Boomer

Registered: 07/23/02
Posts: 14939
Loc: Unionville
I believe we should fully support our independent adventure game developers. We are all complaining that the stores don't stock as many adventure games as we would like them to. We will depend more and more on indie developers to give us the excellent games that we have been seeing of late.
Matt Clark has produced such a game with 100 people having been lucky enough to receive it early. What really is bothering me is that the game is already up for trade. Why can't everyone support Matt and buy this game? Perhaps in a few years if it is a difficult game to find then offer it for trade.
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#120501 - 04/23/06 12:57 PM Re: Indie Developers
Becky Offline
The Medieval Lady
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 02/16/00
Posts: 26894
Loc: Stony Brook, New York, USA
Manxman -- you can read a previous discussion of the issue of trading Indie games here.

More than 100 people received the game early -- anyone who preordered by the deadline received it early (I did and I was well past the first 100 orders).


Edited by looney4labs (06/13/07 10:37 AM)
Edit Reason: updated link

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#120502 - 04/23/06 12:57 PM Re: Indie Developers
Cathy1 Offline
BAAG Specialist

Registered: 05/10/03
Posts: 7209
Loc: Calgary Alberta Canada
I hear your rant but not everyone can afford a new game every time they want to play one. I agree about supporting indie developers,but like I said not everyone can afford too.

Cathy thumbsup
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#120503 - 04/23/06 01:12 PM Re: Indie Developers
manxman Offline
Adept Boomer

Registered: 07/23/02
Posts: 14939
Loc: Unionville
Becky, thanks for the link, I just wanted to offer my opinion. Sorry for the repeat smile
Also, I erred about the 100 number...sorry. oops

Cathy1-I understand the expense of buying games but we can't have it both ways. If we want to encourage indie developers then we must find a way to buy their games. smile

From the previous link that Becky referred to from Brian W.:

Quote:
Now, I'm certainly not going to tell anyone how they should acquire our game, as long as it's legal it's not my place. But I am going to ask that the next time you aim to purchase any Indie game, not just our own, take a minute to think about how each sale could ultimately mean the continuation of games or the demise of a company. Saving $6 to get a used copy of an Indie game sure is a tempting offer but it would help all of us so much more if you purchased the game right from us, showing your support for our efforts.
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#120504 - 04/23/06 01:44 PM Re: Indie Developers
challis3 Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 07/21/01
Posts: 914
Loc: Durham, NC USA
Since I am the one trading it, let me restate my position. I do support indie games- I always buy them from the developer. On top of that, I provide voice acting to indie developers free of charge. However, to single out the issue of trading or reselling just an independent game is short sighted. Is it OK then to resell or trade a commercial game?
I know my game budget is predicated on the fact that I will resell the game, thus allowing me more money to ultimately put back into the adventure gaming community. I will not spend $30.00 on Keepsake, but if I know I can resell it for at least $20.00, I can certainly spend $10.00 on it.
There are a number of people that would not even think of purchasing certain games at certain prices or without trading and that market would be untapped. So how is that cutting into the same market that would have purchased the game from the developer? Of course it is impossible to know this, but it is certainly a side to the arguement.
And that's my rant.
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#120505 - 04/23/06 02:22 PM Re: Indie Developers
The Haze Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 02/12/06
Posts: 781
Loc: SE Michigan
thumbsup Please allow me to respectfully agree with challis3. I too was an early 'preorderer' of Barrow Hill . I think it's a great game and have consigned it to my "Keeper" shelf where it will remain and be replayed several times. I preordered Keepsake too, and am half way through it. When I have finished that game, it's gone! The decision to keep or resell is based strictly on my opinion of the game. Who developed it really doesn't matter. Good is good (Barrow Hill). Less than good is for sale. the decision is based strictly on my opinion. After all, they're my games.
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#120506 - 04/23/06 02:27 PM Re: Indie Developers
tigger Offline
Graduate Boomer

Registered: 04/02/01
Posts: 15679
Loc: England
I think it is more the timing which is at issue - I buy the Indie games I want direct from teh developer when they come out, but in a few months or a year when they are no longer availabkle, I would have no qualms about buying a second hand copy. Barrow Hill is not officially released until Monday so to offer it before then isn't really supporting the developer who may be on a tight budget too.
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#120507 - 04/23/06 02:54 PM Re: Indie Developers
JohnBoy Offline
BAAG Specialist

Registered: 05/04/02
Posts: 7745
Loc: Kentwood, Left my heart in New...
I used to buy every game that came out, good or bad. I cant do that anymore. Im retired and am on disability. Most the games I have been buying lately are on the second hand market. I also believe that once I or anyone purchases the game and owns the game it is that persons right to do with it whatever they want. Keep it , Sell it or trade it.
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#120508 - 04/23/06 03:00 PM Re: Indie Developers
challis3 Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 07/21/01
Posts: 914
Loc: Durham, NC USA
To clarify- I didn't realize the game didn't get released to the general public until tomorrow- nor did I realize it could be played without the disk. I simply did what I always do- when finishing a game put it up for trade. It's easy to say wait a year, but the reality is, most games lose their value and they become harder to trade. I don't know if I would buy the volume of indies I do now if I knew I would not be allowed to trade them when finished.
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#120509 - 04/23/06 03:06 PM Re: Indie Developers
chrissie Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 4403
Loc: london uk
Hi manxman! Your rant is quite unjustified! I am aware that 100 copies have been sent out to those who preordered - but when I tried to buy this game over a week ago the message on the website was it was generally available to buy from the 25th? - I am sure that was the date and it is only the 23rd today! I have had another look at the webssite and I see it is now available!

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#120510 - 04/23/06 03:29 PM Re: Indie Developers
nickie Offline
Grand wizard of high mucky muck
Adept Boomer

Registered: 01/08/02
Posts: 13453
Loc: Texas
As in previous times when this topic was discussed, let's be sure and keep it friendly, folks. Each side of this discussion has merit. thanks
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#120511 - 04/23/06 03:43 PM Re: Indie Developers
MysteryFantic Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 512
Loc: Delaware
I can understand the dilema of INDIE games. But for me the games wanting $40.00 to $50.00 and up I can not afford. What I have done is wait until the price is in my range, being disable and fixed income I can't afford to spend big dollars. I get my games most time brand new but, I have gotten many older games at used retail places. I don't sell mine I keep mine because, I usually buy what I like. The first game I bought from INDIE is Borrow Hill and I love this game and the price was worth it. Just because I buy a game used does not mean I won't buy new.

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#120512 - 04/23/06 09:48 PM Re: Indie Developers
BWiegele Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 214
Loc: Fort Lauderdale, FL
The process of selling and purchasing used games has been around forever and will always be. The big problem from an Indie developer's perspective is that since they ONLY sell the games online they don't have the benefit of getting additional purchases from retail chains. Every single copy that sells from their website is crucial.

I don't think anyone is telling anyone else they should not sell/buy used Indie games. I think the point of threads like this is to educate people and say if you CAN buy a new version from the developer it shows a lot more support than you might think.

-Bryan
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#120513 - 04/24/06 01:40 PM Re: Indie Developers
chrissie Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 4403
Loc: london uk
Sorry manxman! I missed the point of your rant and realised it was because Barrow Hill was up for resale before it had been generally released!

I am lucky enough at the moment to be able to buy games I want new and make a point of ordering from the developer if I can as I want to support them to carry on making games! But I can appreciate that for people on limited incomes that if they choose to support a developer by buying new they are limited to experiencing fewer games. In the same situation I would buy as cheaply as possible so I could play more - which means secondhand - who would do any different? It may not support the developers but does support the genre! I also agree that once someone has paid the money for a game it is theirs to resell if they want to.

I think in the case of Barrow Hill it probably wasn't a good idea to send out pre-orders ahead of an official release date. I certainly found it frustrating that people had the game and I had to wait to buy it!
smile

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#120514 - 04/24/06 01:46 PM Re: Indie Developers
CBSection31 Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 05/10/04
Posts: 499
I might be in the minority as far as the opinion of indie developers goes, but - as an indie developer - I have no issues with someone trading or reselling a game they have purchased from me. They purchased the game. That gives them the right to do what they want with it, as long as they don't make a copy for themselves before selling/trading it.

What bothers me far more are people who make copies of the game and sell them repeatedly on sites like eBay. I consider that to be illegal and unjust. But people who wish to trade, sell, or auction a used game that they legitimately purchased aren't doing anything wrong, in my opinion.

Am I losing money? Perhaps. But I feel that customers' rights are more important. They are allowed to trade commercial games, and so they should be allowed to trade indie ones, as well.

Just my opinion. smile
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