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#120551 - 04/29/06 06:36 AM Re: One more rant about Dreamfall (beware - spoilers are lurking)
Becky Offline
The Medieval Lady
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 02/16/00
Posts: 26894
Loc: Stony Brook, New York, USA
Quote:
Becky, I think it's a sign that you need to try Divine Divinity.
Must...Resist...The Dark Side....

Snatcher -- the 10-year-old instructed me not to block, but just to dodge and move around, and that's working very well so far. I think I must have a particularly slow thumb.

Colpet -- interesting analysis! I agree that there will always be tension when you take a tried and true formula and then significantly innovate/change the formula.

I am playing The Longest Journey as I play Dreamfall and so far my own impression is that, overall, Dreamfall is the better game. Of course, in many ways it isn't "fair" to compare a brand new release with a game that is several years old!

I was one of the "traditional" gamers who struggled with movement in BS3. I never did adapt to the screen-relative view in BS3, and just barely made it through a couple of the game's action challenges by the skin of my teeth after repeated attempts. I'm finding movement in Dreamfall to be much easier because it gives you the option to use character-relative movement. I'm assuming that combat will become more difficult as I go through the game, but so far the combat hasn't been nearly as difficult as I expected.

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#120552 - 04/29/06 06:39 AM Re: One more rant about Dreamfall (beware - spoilers are lurking)
Snatcher42 Offline
Shy Boomer

Registered: 04/06/04
Posts: 94
Loc: Four Winds Bar
Re: Colpet's post

One (and the game designer) can think of such things as "trying to attract a mainstream audience" and "breaking a tried and true formula", or as trying to innovate and do what's best for the game irregardless of rules and conventions. In Dreamfall's case I think there's a bit of both going on, and the game benefits and suffers likewise.

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#120553 - 04/29/06 07:04 AM Re: One more rant about Dreamfall (beware - spoilers are lurking)
Becky Offline
The Medieval Lady
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 02/16/00
Posts: 26894
Loc: Stony Brook, New York, USA
For what it's worth --

Some of my settings in the options menu:

Under Game settings:

Camera Behavior (Mouse) -- Normal
Camera Horizontal Axis -- Inverted
Camera Vertical Axis -- Inverted

Under Mouse settings:

Mouse Mode -- Camera
Mouse Overall Sensitivity -- set at just over one-third along the line/gauge
Character Movement Sensitivity -- about three-fourths
Camera Sensitivity -- about three-fourths


A Question -- I'm using EAX hardware for sound -- could using a setting with software sound emulation be causing some of the movement problems people are having?

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#120554 - 04/29/06 07:27 AM Re: One more rant about Dreamfall (beware - spoilers are lurking)
JohnBoy Offline
BAAG Specialist

Registered: 05/04/02
Posts: 7745
Loc: Kentwood, Left my heart in New...
Quote:
Originally posted by Snatcher42:
Quote:

Last, in terms of your considering Dreamfall to not be an adventure... I feel quite the opposite.

[QUOTE]I don't see how anyone who actually sat down and played this game for any length of time can honestly say that Dreamfall is not an Adventure. It may be an adventure with a few other elements but it is blatantly an adventure first and foremost.
(Not my quote)

If I sound like I'm going out of my way to support Dreamfall here and in other thread, well yeah I kinda am. Because I think it's the best story in a game in years (better than TLJ1. It's the best since GK2 imo!), and I really want to see a sequel! smile

(Which Ragnar talks about some on his blog: http://www.ragnartornquist.com/ )
IMO All games are an adventure. However when an adventure game, in true meaning of the genre, has action elements, to me it puts the game in the action/adventure category.
If you read my post, I agree with you on the story. I stated that if the controls did what they are suppose to do, this would be the best game I have played this year next to TR Legends.
I did go to the Dreamfall forums and read all the problems others are having with the controls. I set things up the way one person said to and it did make a lot of imrovement in the controls. And the game is more tollerable. But the controls are still IMHO far from what they should have been.
You also admitted that the controls are sluggish. IMO this is inexcusable. There is no excuse for releasing the game with controls that half the people playing the game cant use cause they dont do what they are suppose to do 70% of the time.
I wish I could cheer on about the game the way you do. TLJ is my favorite game of all time. I, more than anyone wanted this to be the best game ever.
However the annoyances with the camera and controls make that almost impossible.
_________________________
I Baag, Therefore I Am. Update: I Don't Baag Anymore, Therefore I Ain't! Update: I'm baaging again but just a little.
JohnBoy
----------------

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#120555 - 04/29/06 08:06 AM Re: One more rant about Dreamfall (beware - spoilers are lurking)
syd Offline
Adept Boomer

Registered: 11/12/99
Posts: 12306
Loc: Body in California/Heart in Ha...
Okay Becky I faithfully wrote down how your game is set up and will try it because however I set my controls last night caused Zoe to stand at the top of the stairs at the gym, look at me and say "and you except me to be able to move exactly how??????" evil
_________________________
Dark Side : Risen
Light Side:

I can only please one person a day. Today isn't your day. Tomorrow's not looking good either.

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#120556 - 04/29/06 08:15 AM Re: One more rant about Dreamfall (beware - spoilers are lurking)
JohnBoy Offline
BAAG Specialist

Registered: 05/04/02
Posts: 7745
Loc: Kentwood, Left my heart in New...
Syd, my settings, which is what I got from the Dreamfall forum are exactly like Beckys setup. And it does make quite a bit of difference. Now only if the camera did not have a mind of its own. lol
_________________________
I Baag, Therefore I Am. Update: I Don't Baag Anymore, Therefore I Ain't! Update: I'm baaging again but just a little.
JohnBoy
----------------

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#120557 - 04/29/06 08:41 AM Re: One more rant about Dreamfall (beware - spoilers are lurking)
syd Offline
Adept Boomer

Registered: 11/12/99
Posts: 12306
Loc: Body in California/Heart in Ha...
People I'm certainly not against innovation. I am against awkward control systems. There's no need to re-invent the wheel especially where controls are concerned. Why over complicate things? In this game to make Zoe walk you have to hold down the shift and W key at the same time. Try doing that for very long and your wrists cramp up - solution - Caps lock on for always run, Caps lock off to walk - no need to hold any keys down. For me to get Zoe to walk into walls instead of bashing into them at full speed laugh my fingers have to be in an awkward position and it's not necessary. Also, let the gamer choose between first and third person point of view. I love this option - if you feel like third person makes a game less immersive you hit a key and viola there you are - just you and your environment. If you want to see yourself and your environment - hit a key and there you are in all your glory. You've got the best of both worlds. And for heavens sake - do away with the flipping camera thing - gad that's annoying.

There - I've solved the control problems for future adventure games - everyone can now relax rotfl
_________________________
Dark Side : Risen
Light Side:

I can only please one person a day. Today isn't your day. Tomorrow's not looking good either.

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#120558 - 04/29/06 09:29 AM Re: One more rant about Dreamfall (beware - spoilers are lurking)
JohnBoy Offline
BAAG Specialist

Registered: 05/04/02
Posts: 7745
Loc: Kentwood, Left my heart in New...
Thank God, I am so relieved! lol
_________________________
I Baag, Therefore I Am. Update: I Don't Baag Anymore, Therefore I Ain't! Update: I'm baaging again but just a little.
JohnBoy
----------------

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#120559 - 04/29/06 10:15 AM Re: One more rant about Dreamfall (beware - spoilers are lurking)
syd Offline
Adept Boomer

Registered: 11/12/99
Posts: 12306
Loc: Body in California/Heart in Ha...
You're welcome Johnboy - now I'm off to save the world - oh and can I buy Zoe a sword somewhere or better yet a nice fireball spell? She's the pits at this kicking thing laugh
_________________________
Dark Side : Risen
Light Side:

I can only please one person a day. Today isn't your day. Tomorrow's not looking good either.

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#120560 - 04/29/06 11:12 AM Re: One more rant about Dreamfall (beware - spoilers are lurking)
Betty Lou Offline
Adept Boomer

Registered: 07/29/00
Posts: 11334
Loc: Sacramento, CA USA
I am truly sorry to hear all these 'bad' things about this game. It is a shame that Funcom did it this way. I don't suppose they will be smart enough to rework the whole game and offer it in the 'old' way to us who might then consider paying their rediculous price for such a 'stinker'. If I wanted to play RPG and Action games I would buy and play them. I DO NOT! Life is too short to take one of my 'pleasures' and make me get so frustrated with it that I want to burn it and strangle the idiot who thought it was a good idea to change it (if it ain't broke, don't fix it, some gameplayers will NEVER come over to our side and play these wonderful adventure games!). I pass on this one and will never even give it a chance. Too much to do and more fun ahead of me. After all my 'wish list' has 54 titles on it now, that should keep me busy for a looooooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnng time!Thanks for all the discussion re this one, makes it easy for me to ignore the game entirely. laugh
Love, Betty Lou
_________________________
I am 'the HAT lady"! and "who loves ya BABY?!"

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#120561 - 04/29/06 11:49 AM Re: One more rant about Dreamfall (beware - spoilers are lurking)
syd Offline
Adept Boomer

Registered: 11/12/99
Posts: 12306
Loc: Body in California/Heart in Ha...
Hi Betty Lou - I honestly don't know if there's much action - haven't made it that far. I do know that I'm going to start over so I can get the gist of what's going on because I have no clue. I lost the story line somewhere in the beginning - actually I lost it at the beginning as soon as I tried to get someone to move lol

I've reset the controls to how everyone said - it is a little bit better but not much and I'm still going to get a headache with this camera flipping thing. My son (the console player) came in, listened to me complain and informed me that I'm just not used to camera views and he's right - I'm not. I will fully admit - in public - what my family will attest to - on a patience scale of 1-10 - I'm a -8 laugh
_________________________
Dark Side : Risen
Light Side:

I can only please one person a day. Today isn't your day. Tomorrow's not looking good either.

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#120562 - 04/29/06 12:24 PM Re: One more rant about Dreamfall (beware - spoilers are lurking)
Snatcher42 Offline
Shy Boomer

Registered: 04/06/04
Posts: 94
Loc: Four Winds Bar
Quote:
You also admitted that the controls are sluggish. IMO this is inexcusable.
I said that the FIGHTING controls are sluggish, not the rest. And I also said that there are only four obligatory fights in the game, all of which I beat on the first try and took no more than a few min each. They make up about 10 minutes of a (for me) 20 hour game. That makes them about 0.85% of the total game. IMO that's just too miniscule to 1) get really worked up about and 2) call this anything other than an adventure. (Yes, there are also the stealth sequences which took up a good bit more time - but I enjoyed those and found most of em to be more like puzzles in their own right anyway, since it's always a matter of figuring out what to do, and not testing your dexterity in doing it.)

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#120563 - 04/29/06 12:38 PM Re: One more rant about Dreamfall (beware - spoilers are lurking)
Jenny100 Offline
GB Reviewer Glitches Moderator
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 10/24/00
Posts: 35226
Loc: southeast USA
Quote:
Originally posted by syd:
I've reset the controls to how everyone said - it is a little bit better but not much and I'm still going to get a headache with this camera flipping thing.
I hated the camera flipping in BS3. But I'm not sure what you mean about camera flipping in Dreamfall - maybe because I'm always adjusting the camera to be behind my character.

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#120564 - 04/29/06 12:38 PM Re: One more rant about Dreamfall (beware - spoilers are lurking)
Becky Offline
The Medieval Lady
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 02/16/00
Posts: 26894
Loc: Stony Brook, New York, USA
Syd -- you haven't met the guy in the game yet who tells Zoe that she kicks like a mule!

Thanks for giving the game another try. It's worth it, IMHO. (BTW, as I play The Longest Journey, it seems as though April is moving sooooo slooooowly. I have to double click constantly to make her run.)

I like what you said about switching between third person and first person perspective. I don't know how often the DarkSide games let you do this, but Uru did and I loved it.

The only fighting control that is sluggish for me is the right mouse button -- and I understand that it's supposed to be slower because the more powerful moves are supposed to take longer than the lighter, quicker moves (left mouse button). They also do significantly more damage than the lighter moves.

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#120565 - 04/29/06 12:52 PM Re: One more rant about Dreamfall (beware - spoilers are lurking)
Jenny100 Offline
GB Reviewer Glitches Moderator
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 10/24/00
Posts: 35226
Loc: southeast USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Snatcher42:
...and I also said that there are only four obligatory fights in the game, all of which I beat on the first try and took no more than a few min each. They make up about 10 minutes of a (for me) 20 hour game. That makes them about 0.85% of the total game. IMO that's just too miniscule to 1) get really worked up about
I'll agree with you that Dreamfall is an adventure game. It has nowhere near enough action in it to qualify as action/adventure. You can't even make your character jump over a teeny little pebble (and having to walk around a little pebble instead of hopping over it is just silly).

But you have to understand that what took you 10 minutes may take some people here a good deal longer - and a few may have to get a saved game from somewhere to get past them. And you should probably combine fighting time with stealth time in most cases - at least when the stealth involves timing enemy movements and moving fast when you have to.

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