GK3: Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned

Posted by: syd

GK3: Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned - 02/18/02 01:23 PM

Gabriel Knight 3: Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned
Sierra – 1999
W98
3D/Keyboard/mouse
3rd Person Adventure

Story –

Gabe and Grace receive an invitation to visit Prince James in Paris. Seems the Stewarts have been plagued by a malady for centuries. They wake up pale and exhausted and suffer from severe anemia – anemia induced by bite marks on the neck. Prince James wants Gabe to protect his son Charles from what the Stewarts call the “night visitors”. Well, they don’t do a very good job – the first night they are there two “visitors” break into the baby’s room and kidnap him. Gabe gives chase and winds up at a train station where he hops the train. He is promptly knocked out and wakes up at Rennes-Le-Chateau – and the search for the baby, vampires and buried treasures begins

Gameplay

You use both the keyboard and mouse to move around in the game. Thank goodness the escape key gets you where you need to be in a hurry or I’d still be ambling around the village – boy, do those folks walk slow. There is a map feature which is very nice – once a location appears just click on it and Gabe or Grace motorcycle to it in a flash.

As with GK2 you play both Gabe and Grace separately. This game is broken up into 3 days and the days broken into time frames. You cannot proceed into the next time frame until all the necessary actions are completed. You can however continue on without all the points – I didn’t even come close to having all the points possible when I finished – which could be why I was a little confused on what was going on in the story.

Puzzles

The puzzles were your basic inventory type. A couple of them were pretty far fetched. I still wonder how Mosley (yep, good old Mose is back) is going to leave France with his newly doctored passport. It may have fooled the motorcycle guy but I doubt the border patrol will be so gullible. The most annoying part of the entire game (for me anyway) was all the map making, coordinate putting stuff on Sidney (the computer). I totally lost the story line while fighting this part and finally resorted to a wt in order to save my sanity. Then there was this %&*$ pendulum………and I still wonder how Gabe and Grace fit all that stuff into those tight jeans without once showing a bulge.

Conclusion

Overall I wound up liking the game – the story once it was finally all fleshed out, was extremely interesting and had some surprising twists to it – but it took way too long for me to understand what was happening and why. That could be because I missed a bunch of stuff that filled in the story line better. You don’t really get the entire picture of what is happening until the second to the last time frame on the last day – up until then, for me anyway, it was more of a “I don't have a clue why I'm doing this, but if you say I have to then okay guys”
Posted by: gatorlaw

Re: GK3: Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned - 02/19/02 07:41 PM

Good review. I have to agree with most of your points. I don't think this had as much universal appeal as the other GK games.

I really loved this game - but I am replaying this myself and am having a hard time enjoying it as much as the first time.

Although I must admit the Sydney PC stuff didn't annoy that much and in parts I relly liked it. I also got more and more into the game as it progressed the first time. Did I like it as much as GK2 - nahh But still on my keepers shelf.

Laura
Posted by: Advpuzlov

Re: GK3: Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned - 02/14/04 06:40 PM

I finished the game not too long ago after playing GABRIEL KNIGHT I and II, and then III one after the other. In many ways I preferred GK II, but I got fascinated by the plot of GK III and did a lot of digging into the background, the result of which was illuminating and which boosted my pleasure in the game so as to overcome by far some of its deficiencies. I picked up several books on the subject and will list them just in case someone else suffers from the same insatiable curiosity syndrome that plagues me.

Holy Blood, Holy Grail
Michael Baignet, Richard Leigh, & Henry Lincoln
[Dell Publishing (1983)]

This is the one that sort of started the most recent popularization of the Mary Magdalen legend. Dan Brown used it as a reference.

The Da Vinci Code
Dan Brown
[Doubleday (2003)]

The recent bestselling novel which elaborates on the legend, but which has a basis in fact. It is excellent to read in conjunction with playing GK III, as I did.

Mary Magdalen -- Myth and Metaphor
Susan Haskins
[Berkeley Publishing Group (1993)]

Haskins makes a commentary on "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" which is not too complimentary - "The authors breathlessly bend to their purpose whatever information comes their way, and the book offers no new insights into the historical figure of Mary Magdalen, but concentrates on trying to assemble proof for some of the more far-fetched of the legends which have accumulated around her over the centuries, using as their guiding principle the idea that there is no smoke without a fire." (p369) Despite that wink it is a very interesting and informative book.

The Woman with the Alabaster Jar -- Mary Magdalen and the Holy Grail
Margaret Starbird
[Bear & Company (1993)]

This is another book which was influenced by "Holy Blood, Holy Grail." In it Starbird probes the various legends and searches for the "lost feminine" in Christianity. It is aimed at the layman (or should I say laywoman) and is fun to read. Rather short (less than 200 pages) and a quick read.

The Templar Revelation -- Secret Guardians of the True Identity of Christ
Lynn Picknett & Clive Prince
[Touchstone (1997)]

This book is replete with history/legend and refers to so many of the things that are touched on in GK III. They also refer to Margaret Starbird's book as a source. It really takes off and expands on "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" and carries one at almost a frantic pace; so, in spite of its length, it is a fast read.

Mary Magdalene
Lynn Picknett
[Carroll & Graf (2003)]

Picknett's latest book is slower paced, but shorter. Pages 107-117 deal in depth with Rennes-le-Chateau and the Francois Berenger Sauniere story as well as the Priory of Sion, all much fun to read while playing GK III.

Bloodline of the Holy Grail -
The Hidden Lineage of Jesus Revealed

Laurence Gardner (Chevalier Labhran de Saint Germain)
[Laurence Gardner is the Presidential Attache to the European Council of Princes - a constitutional advisory body established in 1946. He is formally attached to the noble household guard of the Royal House of Stewart, founded at St. Germain-en-Laye in 1692, and is the Jacobi Historiographer Royal.]
(Foreword by HRH Prince Michel of Albany - Head of the Royal House of Stewart)
[Barnes & Noble (2003)]

Now if you've played GK III, you'll know about the House of Stewart. Well, here it is in detail, and I do mean in detail! There are 300 pages of rather interesting, if slanted, history and the next 150 pages of notes and references,index, and genealogy charts. Anyone who is interested in genealogy charts should have fun with these!

"The Da Vinci Code" quotes a couple of Gnostic Gospels -- "The Gospel of Mary," which is attributed to Mary Magdalene and "The Gospel of Philip," both of which are used to suggest that Mary Magdalene was more than just an ordinary disciple of Jesus. Translations can be found in any compilation of the "Nag Hammadi Library," as for example, a book of that very name edited by James M. Robinson, a popular one "The Gnostic Gospels" by Elaine Pagels, and a more recent treatment "Lost Scriptures -- Books that Did Not Make It into the New Testament" by Bart D. Ehrman. These have a lot more in them which are of interest.

Well, it was great fun playing GABRIEL KNIGHT III - Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned while reading all of this background literature. That's why I particularly like Adventure games that have a basis, however flimsy, in history. That is also why BYZANTINE is high on my list of favorites, in fact, even higher than GK III, since the acting and FMV was much better.
Posted by: Mad

Re: GK3: Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned - 02/14/04 07:14 PM

Hi Syd !!

You certainly have much more compassion for GK3 than I do wink

I got absolutely bored to death with all the Sidney stuff and map co-ordinating stuff etc. etc..
I felt there was just TOO much of it.
In previous GK games, Gabe and Grace both went out and about and investigated for goodness sake - they didn't sit in an hotel room computerin' half the day rolleyes

Also, it was one of the first 3D games I ever bought and I hated those blocky Gabe and Grace characters - not to mention the messes I got into because of camera angles !!
[I much preferred the old Gabe and Grace pictures from GK1 to tell the truth !! happydance

I did keep the game for a while in case I mellowed and relented enough for a re-play - but I just couldn't bring myself round to facing one and so traded it on wave
Posted by: Scout

Re: GK3: Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned - 02/15/04 08:27 AM

Poor GK3! Looks like I'll have to take up the cause.

Like colpet and Adpuzlov I was really intrigued by the backstory. I plowed through Sydney night after night, feverishly chasing links. The whole story sucked me in, the interweaving plotlines, the merry-go-round of characters, all with their own agenda, all taking place in real time, it just felt so incredibly fleshed out. This game worked on so many levels for me I turned right around and played it a second time, something I never do. I still remember finding those knee prints in that meadow after the first murder, following the vampires into the night, sneaking around that castle during the wine tasting tour, the bus finally leaving the courtyard that second day. I've played a hundred games since GK3 and none of them have stuck in my mind so vividly. I even liked the much hated cat moustach puzzle though I finally had to take a hint right at the end to get it.

Some people complain that the story tried to do too much and they're probably right but I loved Jensen's ambition with this one. She really sank her teeth in to GK3 and I think she deserves more credit for it than she got. The Serpent Rouge puzzle is one of the masterpieces of adventure gaming, IMHO.

So if anyone is on the fence about this game I heartily encourage you to give it a chance. It is a classic of the field and far and away my favorite of the three.

Hee, hee. Mikey liked it.
Posted by: DoreenS

Re: GK3: Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned - 02/18/04 06:43 PM

I agree Scout, I loved this game too. I didn't like the ending but the rest of the game I found very entertaining. I'm going to read The Da Vinci code soon and I'm looking forward to it. smile
Posted by: nickie

Re: GK3: Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned - 02/26/04 01:04 PM

Advpuzlov, I had read several of those books prior to playing the game, so the game was that much more interesting to me because of it. Some other somewhat obscure books that might be of interest to you are "The treasure maps of Rennes-Le-Chateau" by Stanley James (1984), The academic work "The long-haired Kings" by J.M. Wallace-Hadrill (1982) and "Secrets of Rennes le Chateau" by Lionel and Patricia Fanthorpe (1992)- none of which are as quick and good a read as those you suggest though.
I sure agree with you Scout wave in applauding Jensen's ambition in undertaking such a huge story and making a great game out of it. I just wish it had been in FMV.
Posted by: SuMac

Re: GK3: Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned - 02/28/04 01:18 PM

Thanks, Advpuzlov, for the reading list. I printed it out to save for reference. I really liked GKIII because of the story -I'd been interested in the Templars for a long time, and found the story fascinating.

As for the ending, I don't know how any game could top that one!
Posted by: Teddo

Re: GK3: Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned - 03/07/04 08:49 PM

Having been interested in this subject for 40+ years and having researched this subject,I found GK3 to be an extraordinary piece of analytical and honest work. This took an extraordinary amount of research. I'd say it was an equal to the Da Vinca Code, but in a different medium, to get the point across.

GN3 is on the top of my list for informative and historical fact. This is not to underrate Gabe's sex appeal and the humor.

Teddo
Posted by: jedi valius

Re: GK3: Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned - 03/22/08 09:14 AM

Hey Teddo,

I totally agree with you. I also had been interested in the subject way before GK3 was released and the game is really faithful to a lot of the real research. Jane Jensen went out of her way to make this game accurate, intriguining and complex! It just shows how much she loves to present a good story and how much passion she has for the mysteries and the paranormal. You can also tell that by reading her books. I for one can not wait for Grey Matter to be released.
Posted by: misa

Re: GK3: Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned - 03/22/08 10:09 AM

I love all of the GK games but if I had to rank them GK3 would have to be my least favourite of the three (GK2 my favourite). However, that's only if I had to rank them because I still think GK3 was fantastic with a couple of exceptions (not Jane's fault, she didn't have anything to do with a couple of the ridiculous puzzles IIRC).

I thought she did a great job with the storyline and the history of the area and subjects involved. As for Le Serpent Rouge, I thought it was an excellent puzzle. It was definitely tough and I did need a few nudges along the way to finish it but it was logical based on the clues and totally realistic (treasure hunters routinely scour archives for clues and then try and map out coordinates based on those coordinates and the topography of the area).

I've always had a fascination with the subject of the Templars as well. It all started with an episode of the BBC series Robin of Sherwood years ago (I watched it on PBS) where they encountered Templars. Then I bought Holy Blood, Holy Grail years ago. Fascinating subject!

It is really too bad that Jane is not legally allowed to come out with another GK either in novel or game form (Vivendi owns the rights to "Gabriel Knight"). I really would have liked to have seen what happens with Gabriel and Grace because...

Click to reveal..
Grace is pregnant based on some of the resource files. You can read about it here.
Posted by: Volkana

Re: GK3: Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned - 03/22/08 10:31 AM

I really enjoyed playing this game... Such a nice story... Very interesting game... grin
Posted by: looney4labs

Re: GK3: Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned - 03/23/08 08:10 AM

Volkana, have you played all the GK games?
Posted by: Volkana

Re: GK3: Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned - 03/23/08 12:21 PM

I have also played the Beast Within... Nice story too...
Posted by: Mad

Re: GK3: Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned - 03/23/08 04:48 PM

Hi smile

Well I must have softened in my old(er) age because after not being impressed the first time, I replayed GK3 last year and thoroughly enjoyed it - so the second time around was well worthwhile bravo

Cheers.

Mad wave
Posted by: chrissie

Re: GK3: Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned - 03/24/08 06:00 AM

Thanks Syd for a good review. This was the 1st GK game I played which I nearly didn't bother persisting with because of the controls! - but thankfully I did end up getting totally immersed in the story & just had to have the 1st 2 games which are now amongst my favourites. The Templar theme in GK3 was a real treat as my interest in the subject had already been provoked by Broken Sword 1. The only puzzle I really hated was the end one which I thought was inconsistent with the rest of the game.

Some other books not mentioned are:

Secrets Of The Code (The Unauthorised Guide to the Mysteries Behind The Da Vinci Code)
Edited by Dan Burstein
Published by: Wiedenfeld & Nicolson (GB 2004)
CDs Books (USA 2004)

The Templars
Piers Paul Read
Published by: Wiedenfeld & Nicolson (GB 1999)

This is quite a heavy read which starts off with pages of very detailed accounts of the 'political & religious climates' preceding & leading to the rise of the Templars & then their eventual downfall - gleaned from a variety of historical sources. It contains many interesting & surprising facts.
Posted by: oldmariner

Re: GK3: Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned - 04/02/08 03:14 PM

Originally Posted By: chrissie
The only puzzle I really hated was the end one which I thought was inconsistent with the rest of the game.


The ending puzzle may have been inconsistent with the rest of the game but it was consistent with GK1 & GK2. Each of the three games ended with a difficult puzzle that did not fit with game play through the game. The puzzles were not difficult in terms of figuring out the how or what. They were difficult because of quick reaction or timing required to execute them. Which was a total change in game play required to get to that point. You might come to think it is a GK or JJ tradition. Makes you wonder if this trend ( trait?) will be carried over to Gray Matter.
Posted by: Mad

Re: GK3: Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned - 04/03/08 07:26 AM

Hi smile

I think of it as a "Sierra" tradition !!

Several of their adventures had "drive you mad" endings scared

Cheers.

Mad wave
Posted by: Tomer

Re: GK3: Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned - 04/03/08 12:29 PM

Funny, it seems as though almost everybody in this thread agree that the SIDNEY puzzles were boring.
I have to admit that when I think of comparing a puzzle to something - the Le serpent rouge puzzles are definitely some of my examples for the best puzzles out there in the adventure genre.
The way they were integrated with the plot, the way they gave the player a sense of really solving something by his own, the way they were scattered throughout Gabriel's practical investigation - I just thought it was made so brilliantly!
I didn't like the beginning of the game much, nor the ending, and still, I rank this game, out of all the GK's, my first. I think the research made in it, and the depth this game has reached, is far beyond the others, not to mention other games.
It's amazing how much details were inserted to the game.

Anyway, Sidney is my idea of a puzzle - complex and justified, based on pure historical facts, and on the plot. Grace was always in charge of "theoretical research" (also in GK2 and 1), and the fact is, she always saved the day.
So Mad, you said: "In previous GK games, Gabe and Grace both went out and about and investigated for goodness sake - they didn't sit in an hotel room computerin' half the day". That's not true! Grace was wondering in libraries and museums in GK2, and in 1, she kept making researches for Gabriel!
Posted by: Mad

Re: GK3: Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned - 04/04/08 09:33 AM

Hi Tomer smile

We all have different slants on what makes a good game and which puzzles are the best for US grin

GK1 was my personal favourite of the series - and still is - dated though it might be - and I must admit that Grace didn't venture out of the office in it much. In fact not until near the end of the game. But Gabriel certainly did !!

And In GK2, as you say, "Grace was wondering in libraries and museums" which in my book is NOT sitting in the hotel room glued to the computer .... wink

And whilst you thoroughly enjoyed the SYDNEY aspect of GK3 - we will never all enjoy the same kind of puzzle.
How boring would THAT be for developers ??

Cheers.

Mad wave
Posted by: Tomer

Re: GK3: Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned - 04/05/08 04:27 PM

Originally Posted By: Mad

And whilst you thoroughly enjoyed the SYDNEY aspect of GK3 - we will never all enjoy the same kind of puzzle.
How boring would THAT be for developers ??

Cheers.

Mad wave


Why is it impossible to share an opinion without getting this feedback every time? I didn't generalize anything, I honestly respect your tastes and views, and I obviously spoke ideas that are mine. I think it's trivial and crucial that we'd all have our different opinions.
I said I was surprised that so many dislike the puzzle, and I explained why. That's all.

And regarding the game - I know visiting museums and libraries isn't exactly the same as sitting in an hotel, but what's really the difference?
The fact is, Grace is mostly busy doing research. In GK2 she had no Sidney and no technology so she went to libraries. Moreover, I think GK3's Grace is the most adventurous of them all - all the vinyard bit? sneaking into closets and basements? driving Gabe's motorcycle around the vally? She definitelly did a lot more wondering around than in GK2, where she mostly snooped around Rittersberg.
However, I personally don't care much for how much exploring she's making. May sound cheezy but for me Grace explores the realm of the mind and theory, and she represents for me the pure beauty of wisdom.
Posted by: Phoebe

Re: GK3: Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned - 04/05/08 11:20 PM

Great Review Syd

I love de series GK, but for me the most weakling of series it is GK3, but still a great game.

Love Maria hearts
Posted by: Mad

Re: GK3: Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned - 04/08/08 08:25 AM

Hi Tomer ..... You ask ....

"Why is it impossible to share an opinion without getting this feedback every time?"

I don't understand your question.
We are at a "forum" : a place for open discussion ....

Our Moderator Becky says :

"you can post a review of any game you choose in the Boomer Reviews forum here. Others who have played the game can then comment -- it becomes part of a data base of opinion then that's been helping adventure gamers for years"

Cheers.

Mad think










Posted by: Tomer

Re: GK3: Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned - 04/08/08 09:13 AM

Mad, I wrote this regarding the post I quoted of yours.... I don't understand your question.
Posted by: Mad

Re: GK3: Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned - 04/08/08 10:00 AM

Hi Tomer smile

I am mystified now.

We are in a forum.
In a forum we can offer opinions - which may generate feedback.

As you don't seem to want feedback I won't give any more to your posts on this thread. OK ??

Cheers.

Mad wave
Posted by: Tomer

Re: GK3: Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned - 04/08/08 11:59 AM

Mad, you can feedback as much as you'd like - did you carefully read my post above?! I only wondered why is it that almost every time someone disagrees, there's always a post saying "well, that's only your opinion!". I just said that's trivial, and that I obviously realize that what I write is my opinion.

Don't be mystified, just read, and don't jump to conclusions.

Cheers!

Tomer smile
Posted by: Becky

Re: GK3: Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned - 04/08/08 05:50 PM

Tomer -- this form of communication we use is difficult in that we can't see other people's faces to read clues as to how they are feeling when they are communicating. This sometimes leads to people getting upset when something they say is contradicted or someone disagrees with them.

As we try hard at GameBoomers to stay "kind and friendly" as we communicate, it's not wrong to reiterate that something is just your opinion. It's a bit like saying "excuse me" or perhaps "with all due respect." laugh

Asking someone if they have carefully read your post can be interpreted as asking them if they are careless and haphazard or perhaps not capable of understanding what you just said. Would you want someone to ask this question of you?

Posted by: Tomer

Re: GK3: Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned - 04/09/08 05:35 AM

Becky, if you don't want me to post in these forums, I won't!

.
.
.

Now if that was my reaction to what you just wrote, how would you respond? :-)

I know it's not "wrong" to post what Mad wrote (that it's my opinion etc...), but I just felt a need to question the reason for posting it. I re-read my original post, regarding the Sidney puzzles. I tried to explain my opinions, and I did so without any aggresions or hard feelings. I even bothered to remark (though theoratically it's not nessecary) that it's only my take and my opinion...
And still, I get a reply saying "Well, that's only your opinion". That's why I had an urge to question the relavence of Mad's post. However, I also realized I don't want to make this whole discussion surround this particular "drama", so I just wrote a few lines, and got back to my take on the game.
It seems I have failed smile It's amazing how these little things grow on threads!

Anyway, I wasn't trying to hurt anybody of course, if I did so, accept my appology.

Tomer.
Posted by: looney4labs

Re: GK3: Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned - 04/09/08 08:18 AM

Sometimes posts which were made innocently acquire a life of their own. I think everyone has had their say now.

Let's get back to the "regularly scheduled" topic--GK3wavepuppy
Posted by: Jehane

Re: GK3: Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned - 04/09/08 09:03 AM

Nice topic smile I love GK3, perhaps because it was the second adventure game I ever played and the story really sucked me in. I've always had an interest in the Templars and had done some research on them for my master's thesis, stumbling across Baigent/Leigh/Lincoln as well and reading part of the book. So I was somewhat familiar with their theories when I started to play GK3. It just blew me away and was a real challenge; I, too, enjoyed the Sidney puzzles although they were pretty difficult for an adventure newbie, and I admit that I couldn't solve all parts without resorting to a walkthrough. The last puzzle (if you can call it a puzzle) was somewhat annoying because it took me a while to figure out where to stand in order to finish off that demon but it worked alright. I can understand, though, that the puzzles were not to everybody's liking but I found them intruiging - basically because I lacked adventuring experience and had only played Broken Sword before smile I just didn't have the chance to compare the puzzles in GK3 with those in its predecessors.

GK3 still is my favourite game although since then I've played lots of other adventure games. Only the prequels came close to dethroning GK3; Beast Within runs a very, very close second in my personal list of all-time favourites smile

As for the posting containing the spoiler: You gotta be kidding eek Now that would make an interesting twist for GK4... but can you imagine
Click to reveal..
Gabe changing diapers and feeding the baby? Or humming lullabys to make it go to sleep?

Oooh, the possibilities... lol
Posted by: looney4labs

Re: GK3: Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned - 04/09/08 09:12 AM

Jehane, this is another one of those games that I have, but have not had time to play yet. However, they receive accolades all the time so I will play them one day.

I wonder how your feelings would change if you had played this as your 40th adventure game?
Posted by: Tomer

Re: GK3: Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned - 04/09/08 11:19 AM

Wow, looney, don't you know all GK's are a must? smile

I can't imagiane the adventure genre without GK and Myst! These games are, to me, the very axis of two different streams that belong to our beloved genre! Oh, to get a game to your hands in an equal level of depth and beauty as in these games.... I long for it!
Posted by: looney4labs

Re: GK3: Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned - 04/09/08 11:25 AM

lol Tomer, does that mean I shouldn't tell you I haven't played Myst either whistle

I have played MOUL and UU though. I only started gaming a couple of years back. I have an enormous stack of "to be played" and don't you know, they keep making new games and I want to play those too lol
Posted by: Tomer

Re: GK3: Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned - 04/09/08 03:55 PM

Looney, didn't Granny told you you have to know the classics first? :-) What child didn't begin his childhood with Little Red Riding Hood?

Save your progress now in all of your games, and start playing the classics! smile
Posted by: looney4labs

Re: GK3: Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned - 04/09/08 03:57 PM

Undoubtedly good advice! I did play TLJ a few months back so I'm not completely without exposure to the classics. puppy
Posted by: Jehane

Re: GK3: Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned - 04/10/08 07:35 AM

Originally Posted By: looney4labs

I wonder how your feelings would change if you had played this as your 40th adventure game?

Good point. It's been a while since I played GK3, mainly because there are so many other games that demand my attention grin Like you, I've only started gaming a few years ago and have lots of games to play. There are still some classics that I haven't yet gotten my hands on, mostly Lucas Arts games. But I wonder how GK3 will look and feel to me when I finally manage to replay it think So far, I've played it three times and loved it. But that was before I had played games like The Longest Journey, Keepsake, Black Mirror smile

As for Myst: While I do agree that it is a classic and that it lifted the genre to new levels, I must also admit that I absolutely hate Myst. I tried several times to play the original game but failed. The puzzles are just too over-the-top for me but I think I could deal with that if the game had a better story. The story basically consists of
Click to reveal..
finding some blue and red pages, give them to those annoying guys in the books who keep whining that you need to free them and who both could be bad guys
That's just not enough to keep me going, though there are fascinating worlds to explore. But to me, Myst is a game that I cannot play without a walkthrough because the puzzles are so difficult and I just don't have the patience to figure them out on my own even though I enjoy a hard puzzle once in a while - but not throughout an entire game.
Playing with a walkthrough, however, is not what I consider good gaming; it's not enjoyable. So I finally gave up on Myst when I reached the third world and had to connect some pipes in a swamp (I think; didn't pay any more attention to the puzzle there because I had already decided that I would not finish the game). That really did it. That and
Click to reveal..
some kind of elevator consisting of a tree
I don't know how many times I had to try before that one finally worked. And I knew I had to do it one more time after returning from that world. That was about the point where I decided that I didn't want to finish this game and that I hated it grin Of course, there are lots of people who love Myst so don't let yourself be influenced by my opinion only - you might love it as well, so give it a try smile
Posted by: looney4labs

Re: GK3: Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned - 04/10/08 08:09 AM

Originally Posted By: Jehane

That was about the point where I decided that I didn't want to finish this game and that I hated it grin Of course, there are lots of people who love Myst so don't let yourself be influenced by my opinion only - you might love it as well, so give it a try smile


That is adventure gaming in a nutshell, and great advice. wave puppy
Posted by: Tomer

Re: GK3: Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned - 04/10/08 11:13 AM

Well, it's well known Myst is either very much loved, or very much hated smile
The story is very, very complex and intricate, if you have the patience to discover it.
Also, the other mysts - especially 3 and 4 - are much more friendly. They are gorgeous and their "plot" is more thick and clear. However, the puzzles remain complex.
The thing is, there's almost not a single Myst puzzle which I can call illogical. More than that - some of the Myst puzzles are so brilliant in my eyes... they are integrated so well within the story and the world they are inhabited in...

But yeah, if you really hated Myst 1, I guess you might not enjoy the others smile
I know my life would've been completely different without that seires!
Posted by: chrissie

Re: GK3: Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned - 04/10/08 04:31 PM

Myst was one of the first AGs I bought (on PS1 & before PC walkthroughs - for me anyway) I started it quite a few times, couldn't get my head round it so put it aside for a few years. I eventually, after being able to get a walkthrough, went ahead & played it from beginning to end - it wasn't the most enjoyable way of playing the game as I had to refer to the walkthrough frequently but I appreciated all the wonderful environments & the basic story-line. It's a game I'm glad I experienced, not really 'my scene' but I did buy Myst 3 which one day I will try & finish. If maybe not for for me, I can see why so many people do love these games. smile
Posted by: jedi valius

Re: GK3: Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned - 04/11/08 02:42 AM

GK is such a fantastic series I am not surprised it still generates debate....GK3 is probably my favorite GK game because of the story which is very close to my heart and have had an interest in it for ages, way before jumping on the Da Vinci Code wagon hehe I do agree with Sydney being one of the best puzzles ever! It´s so good you can´t compare it to any other puzzle...what mostly shines through the GK series, and something current adventure gamers writers can learn from, is the pure love and passion fortelling the story! Puzzles, inventory, graphics, characters are all built around the story to enhance it and not the other way around. We have all been very lucky to have Jane Jensen as a game writer. She is also a literature writer and it shows! If any adventure game producer reads this forum I hope they understand the importance of the story! Look how long GK has stayed in our memory and our hearts and we are still fondly remembering it!
Posted by: Jehane

Re: GK3: Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned - 04/11/08 06:38 AM

Originally Posted By: jedi valius
what mostly shines through the GK series, and something current adventure gamers writers can learn from, is the pure love and passion fortelling the story! Puzzles, inventory, graphics, characters are all built around the story to enhance it and not the other way around.

I couldn't agree more. GK games have what I'd like to call a soul. They're almost perfect. As soon as I start up any of the games, the story grips me and I can't stop playing. The characters are wonderfully done, and if you start with the first game and progress to the last game, you'll notice how much both Gabe and Grace change. Gabe becomes more likeable and less of a macho than in the first game though he's still not what you'd call the perfect son-in-law grin

Story, puzzles and characters are among the things that make the GK series unique, and I agree with you, Jedi, that developers should look to this "old" series to get some fresh ideas. And I want them to take their time; I've recently had the *uhm* pleasure to see what a game looks like if it's being rushed - Cleopatra, Kheops studios' most recent game, might look terrific but makes one major mistake: It relies too heavily on graphics alone. The main character is pale, uninteresting and doesn't stick with you once you completed the game; not even Cleopatra herself leaves an impression and that is a true shame. The story is very, very thin and not exciting at all, and despite the brilliant graphics the game has no soul. It has no life - ok, that is a problem common with 1st-person-games. Great puzzles, though. I had a feeling when playing it that Kheops wanted to stick to the original release date, so they completed the game in a rush, sacrificing important ingredients. They can do better than this though I seriously doubt if they'll ever make a high quality game like GK. They're just too quick in producing adventure games, every 9 months or so there's a new game released.
Posted by: jedi valius

Re: GK3: Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned - 04/11/08 06:54 AM

Originally Posted By: Jehane
They can do better than this though I seriously doubt if they'll ever make a high quality game like GK. They're just too quick in producing adventure games, every 9 months or so there's a new game released.


Yes I was deeply disappointed about Cleopatra as well. I played about 2-3 hrs and then I got bored; like you said the character is uninteresting and fails to make me care about him. However I am not sure time can change a bad adventure game into a good one...as a writer myself, I know that yes you need to take time to edit and perfect the story but the actual story is either great or bad from the beginning. What these adventure developers need is fewer programmers and more original writers like Jane Jensen and Sokal. I think it´s a matter of seeing the adventure game as more of an interactive story rather than a game with a story if you know what I mean..the story is so central it should be first priority for the developers. Let´s hope they read this forum and get the hint smile
Posted by: Jehane

Re: GK3: Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned - 04/11/08 07:19 AM

Oh, but if you already played for about 3 hours you might have been almost done grin Cleopatra is a very short game - when I played it for the second time, it took me 3,5 hours and I didn't even skip much of the dialogue.
I agree with you on that the story should be the center of a game, not the other way around. But all is not lost; House of Tales for example know how to tell a good story, they're also passionate about it and they get better and better with every game smile Agon is good as well; I'm currently playing Lost Sword of Toledo and it takes its time to unfold the story. The graphics might not be as stunning as they are in Cleopatra but the game feels a lot better. The main character is really likeable, the puzzles are challenging but not too difficult, the setting is beautiful. I think there are still those developers and producers out there who care for the story as much as we do; let's just hope they get a chance to make their ideas come true smile
Posted by: jedi valius

Re: GK3: Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned - 04/11/08 07:22 AM

I agree Jehane, there are good producers out there (Culpa Innata anyway?) and I do so love it when great graphics and great story and great puzzles all come together! Here´s to wishing a lots of games in 2008 and 2009 will be like that smile And about Cleopatra...I found some of the initial puzzles well puzzling LOL Hence my using a lot of time on them and wandering around smile
Posted by: penruthen

Re: GK3: Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned - 06/19/08 05:51 PM

I played GK3 because I already had an interest in the Grail conspiracy theories and it was thoroughly enjoyable from that perspective. However some of the puzzles were a bit random. I'll have to dust off the cobwebs and see if I can get it to run on my current setup