Thats weird,
I never had any problem with the controls...
As for Funcom messing up the game, well its only half true.
The action and sneaking parts are kinda annoying but the story is just awesome.
It could be better if it was a point'n click game but its still fun .

Changing tack somewhat and not having any knowledge of this game, my suggestion to Retired (and any other bold adventure gamers) is to install your own new video card: it is usually a simple plug in job with easy instructions - as long as you can figure out how to get the cover off your processor!

Nothing like taking some of the mystery out of the monster...

Becky, I think it's a sign that you need to try Divine Divinity.

Sounds like maybe you aren't block and dodging enough? The fight controls are sluggish, but I never died because of them.

There are also only four obligatory fights in the game. The rest have alternative ways around them. In fact a couple of these are pretty much impossible to win, making avoidance the only real strategy.

I had no problems at all with movement. Those who are should take some time to customize the controls in the various options screens.

Last, in terms of your considering Dreamfall to not be an adventure... I feel quite the opposite.

(Not my quote)

If I sound like I'm going out of my way to support Dreamfall here and in other thread, well yeah I kinda am. Because I think it's the best story in a game in years (better than TLJ1. It's the best since GK2 imo!), and I really want to see a sequel!

(Which Ragnar talks about some on his blog: http://www.ragnartornquist.com/ )

Does anyone else see the similarity here between what happened with BS3 and Dreamfall. Both are follow ups to very successfully games that had a solid fan base. In both cases the developer wished to attract new gamers to the genre by altering a tried and true formula to make the game 'more exciting', 'introduce tension' and have it conform to console playing. I don't know how successful BS3 was in garnering a new market of Adventurers. I do know that many don't see it as an exceptional game, and quite a few refused to play it because of the controls (myself included).
I do believe that Dreamfall is an adventure, but I'm sad to say it's not the type of adventure that will attract gamers like me. I hope it does put Adventures on the map for mainstream gamers; maybe they will be hooked and want to play more.
I just think that changing an adventure to attract mainstream gamers alters it so much that what might be gained is offset by the loss of the existing market. Developers can either listen to us and give us more of what we love or try to add elements that they think mainstream gamers want. More of the same needn't be stagnant or rehashed. There are plenty of stories to be told, and oodles of ways to present challenging puzzles. You don't need more than 2 buttons to have great gameplay. You don't need state of the art graphics to stimulate the imagination.
Referring to the Charles Cecil interview at AG, I find it fitting that he is talking of good old point and click for BS 4.
Coming from him, this is heartening indeed.

Must...Resist...The Dark Side....

Snatcher -- the 10-year-old instructed me not to block, but just to dodge and move around, and that's working very well so far. I think I must have a particularly slow thumb.

Colpet -- interesting analysis! I agree that there will always be tension when you take a tried and true formula and then significantly innovate/change the formula.

I am playing The Longest Journey as I play Dreamfall and so far my own impression is that, overall, Dreamfall is the better game. Of course, in many ways it isn't "fair" to compare a brand new release with a game that is several years old!

I was one of the "traditional" gamers who struggled with movement in BS3. I never did adapt to the screen-relative view in BS3, and just barely made it through a couple of the game's action challenges by the skin of my teeth after repeated attempts. I'm finding movement in Dreamfall to be much easier because it gives you the option to use character-relative movement. I'm assuming that combat will become more difficult as I go through the game, but so far the combat hasn't been nearly as difficult as I expected.

Re: Colpet's post

One (and the game designer) can think of such things as "trying to attract a mainstream audience" and "breaking a tried and true formula", or as trying to innovate and do what's best for the game irregardless of rules and conventions. In Dreamfall's case I think there's a bit of both going on, and the game benefits and suffers likewise.

For what it's worth --

Some of my settings in the options menu:

Under Game settings:

Camera Behavior (Mouse) -- Normal
Camera Horizontal Axis -- Inverted
Camera Vertical Axis -- Inverted

Under Mouse settings:

Mouse Mode -- Camera
Mouse Overall Sensitivity -- set at just over one-third along the line/gauge
Character Movement Sensitivity -- about three-fourths
Camera Sensitivity -- about three-fourths


A Question -- I'm using EAX hardware for sound -- could using a setting with software sound emulation be causing some of the movement problems people are having?

IMO All games are an adventure. However when an adventure game, in true meaning of the genre, has action elements, to me it puts the game in the action/adventure category.
If you read my post, I agree with you on the story. I stated that if the controls did what they are suppose to do, this would be the best game I have played this year next to TR Legends.
I did go to the Dreamfall forums and read all the problems others are having with the controls. I set things up the way one person said to and it did make a lot of imrovement in the controls. And the game is more tollerable. But the controls are still IMHO far from what they should have been.
You also admitted that the controls are sluggish. IMO this is inexcusable. There is no excuse for releasing the game with controls that half the people playing the game cant use cause they dont do what they are suppose to do 70% of the time.
I wish I could cheer on about the game the way you do. TLJ is my favorite game of all time. I, more than anyone wanted this to be the best game ever.
However the annoyances with the camera and controls make that almost impossible.

Okay Becky I faithfully wrote down how your game is set up and will try it because however I set my controls last night caused Zoe to stand at the top of the stairs at the gym, look at me and say "and you except me to be able to move exactly how??????"

Syd, my settings, which is what I got from the Dreamfall forum are exactly like Beckys setup. And it does make quite a bit of difference. Now only if the camera did not have a mind of its own.

People I'm certainly not against innovation. I am against awkward control systems. There's no need to re-invent the wheel especially where controls are concerned. Why over complicate things? In this game to make Zoe walk you have to hold down the shift and W key at the same time. Try doing that for very long and your wrists cramp up - solution - Caps lock on for always run, Caps lock off to walk - no need to hold any keys down. For me to get Zoe to walk into walls instead of bashing into them at full speed my fingers have to be in an awkward position and it's not necessary. Also, let the gamer choose between first and third person point of view. I love this option - if you feel like third person makes a game less immersive you hit a key and viola there you are - just you and your environment. If you want to see yourself and your environment - hit a key and there you are in all your glory. You've got the best of both worlds. And for heavens sake - do away with the flipping camera thing - gad that's annoying.

There - I've solved the control problems for future adventure games - everyone can now relax

Thank God, I am so relieved!

You're welcome Johnboy - now I'm off to save the world - oh and can I buy Zoe a sword somewhere or better yet a nice fireball spell? She's the pits at this kicking thing

I am truly sorry to hear all these 'bad' things about this game. It is a shame that Funcom did it this way. I don't suppose they will be smart enough to rework the whole game and offer it in the 'old' way to us who might then consider paying their rediculous price for such a 'stinker'. If I wanted to play RPG and Action games I would buy and play them. I DO NOT! Life is too short to take one of my 'pleasures' and make me get so frustrated with it that I want to burn it and strangle the idiot who thought it was a good idea to change it (if it ain't broke, don't fix it, some gameplayers will NEVER come over to our side and play these wonderful adventure games!). I pass on this one and will never even give it a chance. Too much to do and more fun ahead of me. After all my 'wish list' has 54 titles on it now, that should keep me busy for a looooooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnng time!Thanks for all the discussion re this one, makes it easy for me to ignore the game entirely.
Love, Betty Lou

Hi Betty Lou - I honestly don't know if there's much action - haven't made it that far. I do know that I'm going to start over so I can get the gist of what's going on because I have no clue. I lost the story line somewhere in the beginning - actually I lost it at the beginning as soon as I tried to get someone to move

I've reset the controls to how everyone said - it is a little bit better but not much and I'm still going to get a headache with this camera flipping thing. My son (the console player) came in, listened to me complain and informed me that I'm just not used to camera views and he's right - I'm not. I will fully admit - in public - what my family will attest to - on a patience scale of 1-10 - I'm a -8

I said that the FIGHTING controls are sluggish, not the rest. And I also said that there are only four obligatory fights in the game, all of which I beat on the first try and took no more than a few min each. They make up about 10 minutes of a (for me) 20 hour game. That makes them about 0.85% of the total game. IMO that's just too miniscule to 1) get really worked up about and 2) call this anything other than an adventure. (Yes, there are also the stealth sequences which took up a good bit more time - but I enjoyed those and found most of em to be more like puzzles in their own right anyway, since it's always a matter of figuring out what to do, and not testing your dexterity in doing it.)

I hated the camera flipping in BS3. But I'm not sure what you mean about camera flipping in Dreamfall - maybe because I'm always adjusting the camera to be behind my character.

Syd -- you haven't met the guy in the game yet who tells Zoe that she kicks like a mule!

Thanks for giving the game another try. It's worth it, IMHO. (BTW, as I play The Longest Journey, it seems as though April is moving sooooo slooooowly. I have to double click constantly to make her run.)

I like what you said about switching between third person and first person perspective. I don't know how often the DarkSide games let you do this, but Uru did and I loved it.

The only fighting control that is sluggish for me is the right mouse button -- and I understand that it's supposed to be slower because the more powerful moves are supposed to take longer than the lighter, quicker moves (left mouse button). They also do significantly more damage than the lighter moves.

I'll agree with you that Dreamfall is an adventure game. It has nowhere near enough action in it to qualify as action/adventure. You can't even make your character jump over a teeny little pebble (and having to walk around a little pebble instead of hopping over it is just silly).

But you have to understand that what took you 10 minutes may take some people here a good deal longer - and a few may have to get a saved game from somewhere to get past them. And you should probably combine fighting time with stealth time in most cases - at least when the stealth involves timing enemy movements and moving fast when you have to.

That guy was a real pain. It took me several tries to beat him.

Yes, he's tough, although there's a pattern you can use to beat him.

But again, it's not necessary to attack him--if you're careful, you can just sneak past him.

Jenny by the camera flipping around I meant that when I move the mouse the camera zooms in and out and if I move it too much I go from looking behind her (which is how I have the camera view) to looking at her from the front. Obviously I don't have something set up quite right.

Believe me Becky my character will never get told she kicks like a mule

Syd -- have faith! It's what the game is all about, after all.

Demosthenes -- you can sneak by him in the basement? (I didn't wait long enough for the....maybe shouldn't post a spoiler, but even if I did wait long enough, I couldn't see how to get by him unless he was going to stick his head in the sink for a couple of minutes!)

I guess I'll add my rant and possibly reiterate some of the previous comments.

In my opinion TLJ was(is) one of the classic adventures right up there with Kings Quest and Broken Sword. Those in decision making positions decide to take a good thing and improve on it my adding other elements to the adventure, I guess hoping to attract a wider audience. As evidenced by Kings Quest 8, Broken Sword 3 and now Dreamfall. What they in fact do (again in my opinion) is turn off their present fans of the game and not do enough to attract the crowd they were catering to.

There was a saying in the military (of which I retired from). "If it ain't broke don't fix it".

Well TLJ wasn't broke.