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#124374 - 12/09/02 09:58 AM Things you don't like in adventure games
ratracer Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 06/29/00
Posts: 468
Loc: Porto, Portugal
(I saw that polling is disabled from this forum, I hope this post doesn't infringe the forum's rules - thanks MacDee! Even so, if you think I was out of order with this post, please do take it out... )

I just want to know your opinion about things you don't like in adventure games. This is useful to me - as I am developing my own game - but I think it could be useful to other commercial developers:

(Just classify each point from
0- I don't mind this at all
to
5- this would make me stop playing the game)

1. Unnatural interface
2. Can-die situation at the first scene
3. Difficult and often action sequences (with can-die situations) with no possibility to restart just before
4. Easy action sequences (with the possibility to adjust dificulty down to none)
5. Timed sequences
6. Timed sequences with the possibility to adjust dificulty
7. topics of dialogues disappearing after the first time (i.e., if you didn't hear it or read it right the first time, you can't repeat the question...)
8. red herrings (inventory items you never use, puzzles that don't ammount to anything, etc.)
9. walking dead (e.g., possibility of not being able to complete the game if you for forgot to pick an object beforehand...)
10. errors in animations (e.g. the character walks through a wall, or another character)
11. bad programming (e.g. the character keeps asking questions about something, although he already knows about that, already solved the puzzle related and so-on)
12. pixel hunting
13. bugged game (with no patches still available)
14. too descriptive (there's almost no animation, but descriptions, like "the character looks closely, pulls the lever, punches the right word on the keyboard, and the door opens slowly with a strange creaky sound"...)
15. too much dialogue
16. puzzles with no logic (e.g., the solution to opening a door is to press a pickle through the bottom of the door, in order to attract a pickle-loving-rat (which you never knew it existed) that starts jumping in joy and knocks down the stick that is holding the door - or worse!)
17. "key-dependency" - or puzzles too-depending on the same type of items (e.g. most puzzles have got to do with opening doors, and most doors only open with the right key)
18. bad art - too low poly, too different drawing style, bad animations, etc.
19. SLIDDER PUZZLES!!!!
20. labyrinths...

I probably forgot (I had forgot some... it's edited now) some wrong things we find in adventure games, so please also include your own gripes.

Thanks!!!!!

PS Just to get this started, I'll post my own opinions:
1. 0
2. 5
3. 5
4. 1
5. 3
6. 1
7. 1
8. 0
9. 5
10. 0
11. 1
12. 0
13. 2
14. 0
15. 0
16. 3
17. 1
18. 2
19. 4
20. 2

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#124375 - 12/09/02 10:09 AM Re: Things you don't like in adventure games
MacDee Offline
Adept Boomer

Registered: 06/06/99
Posts: 14887
Loc: Battle Creek, Michigan
Hi ratracer...

Only moderator's/administrator's can use the poll function, but you're fine. wink

I'll be back to answer later. wink

~Dee

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#124376 - 12/09/02 11:33 AM Re: Things you don't like in adventure games
gatorlaw Offline
Adept Boomer

Registered: 11/01/99
Posts: 10312
Ok here goes, I just copied the list - so you could tell what was rated. smile

1. Unnatural interface
{not sure what this means - so probably a 2}

2. Can-die situation at the first scene
(eek - at the first scene! I'd get over it if the game was otherwise good - but it sure would tick me off - 4}

3. Difficult and often action sequences (with can-die situations) with no possibility to restart just before {a 5}

4. Easy action sequences (with the possibility to adjust dificulty down to none) {1}

5. Timed sequences {3}

6. Timed sequences with the possibility to adjust dificulty {1}

7. topics of dialogues disappearing after the first time (i.e., if you didn't hear it or read it right the first time, you can't repeat the question...)
{I get bothered by this - but have enjoyed many games that have this annoyance - 2}

8. red herrings (inventory items you never use, puzzles that don't ammount to anything, etc.) {1}

9. walking dead (e.g., possibility of not being able to complete the game if you for forgot to pick an object beforehand...) {angry gamer factor goes up with this - 4}

10. errors in animations (e.g. the character walks through a wall, or another character) (2}

11. bad programming (e.g. the character keeps asking questions about something, although he already knows about that, already solved the puzzle related and so-on){no biggie - it happens -silly game characters - 0}

12. pixel hunting {this almost was an expected feature in many old games lol - 1}

13. bugged game (with no patches still available)
{depends on how bad the bug is - if it's a game over bug - well that says it all - 4}

14. too descriptive (there's almost no animation, but descriptions, like "the character looks closely, pulls the lever, punches the right word on the keyboard, and the door opens slowly with a strange creaky sound"...)
{sounds like a text game - 4}

15. too much dialogue {depends on how good or bad the dialogue is - 1}

16. puzzles with no logic (e.g., the solution to opening a door is to press a pickle through the bottom of the door, in order to attract a pickle-loving-rat (which you never knew it existed) that starts jumping in joy and knocks down the stick that is holding the door - or worse!)
{I like games like this from time to time - sounds like Monkey Island games - 0}

17. "key-dependency" - or puzzles too-depending on the same type of items (e.g. most puzzles have got to do with opening doors, and most doors only open with the right key) {1}

18. bad art - too low poly, too different drawing style, bad animations, etc.
{depends on the rest of the game - 3}

19. SLIDDER PUZZLES!!!!
{I like many sliders - you just sit back and mess with them for a while. Except the ones in The Ward - which reformatted every time you went back and some were unsolveable - grrr 0 - if a normal slider - 5 if The Ward styled sliders}

20. labyrinths... {0}

There ya go smile

Laura
_________________________




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#124377 - 12/09/02 11:52 AM Re: Things you don't like in adventure games
colpet Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 01/07/01
Posts: 1816
Loc: Orillia, Ontario, Canada
1- Keyboard controls 5
2- 4
3- 5
4- 0
5- 4
6- 0
7- 5
8- 0
9- 5
10- 1
11- 3
12- 1
13- 5
14- 3
15- 3
16- 3
17- 2
19- 0
20- 0

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#124378 - 12/09/02 12:37 PM Re: Things you don't like in adventure games
ratracer Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 06/29/00
Posts: 468
Loc: Porto, Portugal
Maybe I should rephrase the question 1. as:
1. Poorly designed or complicated or difficult to use interface (too clutered, requiring many keyboard keys, etc...)

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#124379 - 12/09/02 01:43 PM Re: Things you don't like in adventure games
BillyBob Offline
BAAG Specialist

Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 7858
Loc: North Florida
I know I'm no help with this but just had to tell you that # 16 (the pickel loving rat) brought pictures to mind of my favorite gripe.......and you said it so well! bravo laugh
_________________________
I didn't do it......and if I did I'm not guilty!

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#124380 - 12/09/02 02:02 PM Re: Things you don't like in adventure games
Jenny100 Online   content
GB Reviewer Glitches Moderator
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 10/24/00
Posts: 35471
Loc: southeast USA
Quote:
Originally posted by ratracer:

0- I don't mind this at all
to
5- this would make me stop playing the game)
1. Unnatural interface


3 - I'm guessing "unnatural" means either non-intuitive or difficult to maneuver with. Although I certainly mind, I've finished games with complex keyboard controls and enjoyed them (Outcast) and games where it was hard to maneuver (Temujin)

Actually I should split this up -
3 for complex keyboard
4 for hard to maneuver (or excessively slow - as with Traitors Gate where I had to cover large distances and felt like I was slogging through molasses).


2. Can-die situation at the first scene


Probably 4 - But it might depend on my mood. I do put up with some dying (though I really hate it). But if I knew the game didn't have much dying beyond the first scene I'd continue with it. Then again, I might just get disgusted and quit. Maybe I should say 4 1/2.


3. Difficult and often action sequences (with can-die situations) with no possibility to restart just before


5 - That's a no brainer. Even action gamers want the possibility to restart just before (with very few exceptions)


4. Easy action sequences (with the possibility to adjust dificulty down to none)


1 - or 0 if no dying (I enjoyed Gold and Glory, for example)


5. Timed sequences


2 - unless there was something else that really attracted me to the game. For example, I refused to buy Nautilus. But I did buy Legend of the Prophet (which had such a handsome and well spoken hero as well as a good story).


6. Timed sequences with the possibility to adjust dificulty


0 if you can turn off the timer or if the "easy" difficulty really is easy - i.e. easy enough for a 90 year old man with arthritis and coke-bottle glasses to get through.


7. topics of dialogues disappearing after the first time (i.e., if you didn't hear it or read it right the first time, you can't repeat the question...)


1 I guess. I think most games are like this. I find it annoying, but I put up with it unless the voices aren't clear or are drowned out by music or if the subtitles blink off before I can read them. An automatic pause after each screen of subtitles could fix the problem. I think Treasure Hunter had an automatic pause after every screen of dialog and you'd click Enter when you wanted to continue. I think Twinsen's Odyssey also had the automatic pause.


8. red herrings (inventory items you never use, puzzles that don't ammount to anything, etc.)


0 - I liked the red herring in Monkey Island.
In humorous games extra inventory items can furnish you with an amusing comment, even if they don't have any function in solving a puzzle. But a too big inventory can be a nuisance, so it's really better if there aren't too many extras and if it's possible to put them down somewhere once you realize they're useless.


9. walking dead (e.g., possibility of not being able to complete the game if you for forgot to pick an object beforehand...)


2 - A lot of games I've played have had this problem and it didn't stop me completing them. But it's a lot better if you at least furnish a way to get the object or provide an alternative object - maybe the alternative object could appear if you don't have the preferred object in your inventory when you move to the next level.


10. errors in animations (e.g. the character walks through a wall, or another character)


0 - I prefer characters walking through things to characters getting stuck on things. It looks strange to see characters move through things, but really doesn't bother me that much.


11. bad programming (e.g. the character keeps asking questions about something, although he already knows about that, already solved the puzzle related and so-on)


2 - This is annoying and often confusing. But I still may enjoy the game if as the conversations are only one small part of the puzzles. For a game where the conversations give most important clues to the puzzles, I'd say 4 though.


12. pixel hunting


2 - but far worse than pixel hunting with the mouse is aiming the character with the arrow keys and hitting enter ad nauseum.


13. bugged game (with no patches still available)


3 to 5 - depending on the bugginess and the severity of the bugs.


14. too descriptive (there's almost no animation, but descriptions, like "the character looks closely, pulls the lever, punches the right word on the keyboard, and the door opens slowly with a strange creaky sound"...)


0 for a text game
For other games, I'm not sure. It would depend on what else the game had to offer and if it made up for this deficit by entertaining me enough that I forgot about what was missing. I enjoyed Eric the Unready, for example, but that's actually more of a text game with pictures than a graphics game.


15. too much dialogue


I can't really answer that. If the dialog is interesting, I don't mind at all (0). If it's tedious, then 3.


16. puzzles with no logic (e.g., the solution to opening a door is to press a pickle through the bottom of the door, in order to attract a pickle-loving-rat (which you never knew it existed) that starts jumping in joy and knocks down the stick that is holding the door - or worse!)


0 if there are some clues that might lead you in that direction - for example, the character says "I've got to get rid of this horrible pickle because it's smelling up my pants. Surely there's some place I can hide it" and this leads you to start clicking the pickle on various locations hoping to get rid of it. The outcome isn't quite what you might have expected, but the game did push you toward it.


17. "key-dependency" - or puzzles too-depending on the same type of items (e.g. most puzzles have got to do with opening doors, and most doors only open with the right key)


0 - can't think when this ever bothered me.


18. bad art - too low poly, too different drawing style, bad animations, etc.


4 - of course 2 people can disagree about what constitutes bad art or bad animation. Some people object to the stylized animation in Last Express. I didn't. I objected to the weird save system which wasn't one.


19. SLIDDER PUZZLES!!!!


0 - unless they're timed or just too hard. The ones in 11th Hour were just too hard (the furniture slider and that murky gold and black slider). So was that torturous beast in Puzz3D Orient Express.


20. labyrinths...


Usually 4. I am not a fan of mazes.
But I did enjoy the mazes in Beyond Atlantis (an open maze where you can walk on the ceiling) and Sanitarium (an open 3D maze). Also the subway maze in Myst had an alternate way of getting through it that didn't require mapping, and once I discovered that the maze wasn't bad.


I probably forgot (I had forgot some... it's edited now) some wrong things we find in adventure games, so please also include your own gripes.


I don't like excess profanity - especially if it's uncreative and repetitive.

I don't like unsatifying game endings.

I don't like bad voice acting.

I don't like when the music drowns out the dialog and there are no subtitles.

I don't like distracting music - for example pounding rock music when I'm trying to concentrate on solving a puzzle.

I don't like repetitive nagging or repetitive smarta$$ comments from other characters (Stauf, "want some rye", etc).

I also don't like annoying and repeated background sound effects - for example a particularly loud and raucous bird screeching at me every 30 seconds.

I don't like dialog trees that have to be repeated from the start until you find the right sequence (eg - the people in Shambala in Beyond Atlantis 2 or the scissors puzzle in Mystery of the Druids)

I don't like memory puzzles like the one at the end of Obsidian or at the end of Reah.

I don't like puzzles that depend on recognition of indistinguishable noises or impossible to draw shapes (Schizm).

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#124381 - 12/09/02 06:23 PM Re: Things you don't like in adventure games
SnowMoon Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 10/29/01
Posts: 1849
Loc: Texas
1. Unnatural interface
2

2. Can-die situation at the first scene
5

3. Difficult and often action sequences (with can-die situations) with no possibility to restart just before
5

4. Easy action sequences (with the possibility to adjust dificulty down to none)
0

5. Timed sequences
3

6. Timed sequences with the possibility to adjust dificulty
1

7. topics of dialogues disappearing after the first time (i.e., if you didn't hear it or read it right the first time, you can't repeat the question...)
4

8. red herrings (inventory items you never use, puzzles that don't ammount to anything, etc.)
0

9. walking dead (e.g., possibility of not being able to complete the game if you for forgot to pick an object beforehand...)
5

10. errors in animations (e.g. the character walks through a wall, or another character)
1

11. bad programming (e.g. the character keeps asking questions about something, although he already knows about that, already solved the puzzle related and so-on)
2

12. pixel hunting
2

13. bugged game (with no patches still available)
4

14. too descriptive (there's almost no animation, but descriptions, like "the character looks closely, pulls the lever, punches the right word on the keyboard, and the door opens slowly with a strange creaky sound"...)
1

15. too much dialogue
1

16. puzzles with no logic (e.g., the solution to opening a door is to press a pickle through the bottom of the door, in order to attract a pickle-loving-rat (which you never knew it existed) that starts jumping in joy and knocks down the stick that is holding the door - or worse!)
1

17. "key-dependency" - or puzzles too-depending on the same type of items (e.g. most puzzles have got to do with opening doors, and most doors only open with the right key)
1

18. bad art - too low poly, too different drawing style, bad animations, etc.
2

19. SLIDDER PUZZLES!!!!
1

20. labyrinths...
3

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#124382 - 12/09/02 07:48 PM Re: Things you don't like in adventure games
DBK Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 02/21/01
Posts: 3995
Loc: Southern Wisconsin through Nor...
Hi Ratracer.

1.
Quote:
1. Poorly designed or complicated or difficult to use interface (too clutered, requiring many keyboard keys, etc...)
4 (a complicated interface will usually turn me off to a game, though I may go back later).
2. 1
3. 3 (I like to have a "god mode" option)
4. 0
5. 1
6. 0
7. 2
8. 0
9. 3
10. 1
11. 3
12. 4 (I really dislike pixel hunting.)
13. 5 (Especially if it won't work on my computer.)
14. 2
15. 2
16. 4 (I don't like having to go to a WT.)
17. 3
18. 2
19. 3 (I HATE slidder puzzles, but they wouldn't keep me away from a good game [one or two anyway]).
20. 0 (If I can map it, I have no problem. wave
_________________________
Dawn B.

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#124383 - 12/09/02 08:34 PM Re: Things you don't like in adventure games
burpee Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 12/14/00
Posts: 4516
Loc: North aurora IL
1. 2
2. 3
3. 3
4. 0
5. 2
6. 1
7. 2
8. 1
9. 4
10. 0
11. 2
12. 1
13. 4
14. 1
15. 2 (too much dialouge, ok if you can bypass it)
16. 1
17. 1
18. This is a tough one for me. I don't mind older chunky looking games but I don't care much for people that look like they were drawn by my 5 year old niece...so, 0 on chunky - 4 on bad.
19. SLIDER PUZZLES- 0, I love 'em smile
20. labyrinths... - 4, I hate 'em smile

Comments
Please do not make the game too dark.
Loud background music is distracting and sometimes you can't hear the dialouge.

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#124384 - 12/09/02 09:44 PM Re: Things you don't like in adventure games
lasanidine Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 05/06/01
Posts: 3424
Loc: WA. USA
1. (3)
2. (4)
3. (5)
4. (2)
5. (4)
6. (4)
7. (4)
8. (1)
9. (5)
10. (3)
11. (1)
12. (5)
13. (2)
14. (2)
15. (5)
16. (1)
17. (1)
18. (0)
19. (0)

I really hate:

Timed puzzles
Can-die situations of any kind
Illogical puzzles
Clumsy controls

The story has to be really good if I put up with any of the above.
_________________________
"I am not young enough to know everything."

Oscar Wilde

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#124385 - 12/10/02 01:49 AM Re: Things you don't like in adventure games
tez Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 10/04/02
Posts: 125
Loc: vienna
1. Unnatural interface
Don't like it but i put up with it if the game is really good and it's often amazing how you get used to it. smile (2)

2. Can-die situation at the first scene
(5)

3. Difficult and often action sequences (with can-die situations) with no possibility to restart just before

YUGH (5) frown not a fan of dying at all...

4. Easy action sequences (with the possibility to adjust dificulty down to none)

(1) they have those in "largo winch" and they are actually quite fun!

5. Timed sequences
(2) as long as you are able to save beforehand i don't mind them really.

6. Timed sequences with the possibility to adjust dificulty
(0)

7. topics of dialogues disappearing after the first time (i.e., if you didn't hear it or read it right the first time, you can't repeat the question...)

depends if they are important to play the game..
(3)

8. red herrings (inventory items you never use, puzzles that don't ammount to anything, etc.)

(4) depends how many items there are to pick up. that really bugged me in "jack orlando" where you could pick up virtually everything and never used it.

9. walking dead (e.g., possibility of not being able to complete the game if you for forgot to pick an object beforehand...)

do you mean a "dead end"? then (3) to (5) depending how much of your time gets wasted..plus it usually makes you use a walkthrough and that's no fun.

10. errors in animations (e.g. the character walks through a wall, or another character)
i don't mind them walking through a wall (0) but when they get stuck walking against another person (see "Historion") it drives me mad. (4)

11. bad programming (e.g. the character keeps asking questions about something, although he already knows about that, already solved the puzzle related and so-on)

(3) also happenend in "jack orlando" but it's not a big nuisance.

12. pixel hunting
(1)

13. bugged game (with no patches still available)
depends...if it crashes and i can restart and continue (3)..if it crashes at the same time with the only solution being a saved game (5)..if it crashes 5 times in 1 hour (5)

14. too descriptive (there's almost no animation, but descriptions, like "the character looks closely, pulls the lever, punches the right word on the keyboard, and the door opens slowly with a strange creaky sound"...)
(2)

15. too much dialogue
if it's a game where the dialgogue is absolutely unnecessary to the game (4) this happened in "jerusalem" (i know it's a "learning adventure" but it just sounded like a boring lecture)

16. puzzles with no logic (e.g., the solution to opening a door is to press a pickle through the bottom of the door, in order to attract a pickle-loving-rat (which you never knew it existed) that starts jumping in joy and knocks down the stick that is holding the door - or worse!)
(3)

17. "key-dependency" - or puzzles too-depending on the same type of items (e.g. most puzzles have got to do with opening doors, and most doors only open with the right key)
(3) because it can be boring

18. bad art - too low poly, too different drawing style, bad animations, etc.
(1)

19. SLIDDER PUZZLES!!!!

(1)
20. labyrinths...
(2)not a fan but will put up with it. unless they are timed!

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#124386 - 12/10/02 02:21 AM Re: Things you don't like in adventure games
Gelert Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 09/19/02
Posts: 1097
1. 3 (This would be a '5' if it completely disrupted game flow - re-equipping weapons, magic spell power levels, etc. ; e.g., in many shooters and RPG's).
2. 1
3. 5
4. 0
5. 3
6. 2
7. 4
8. 2
9. 5
10. 1
11. 4
12. 0
13. 4 Dependent on 'bug' severity.
14. 1 (More acceptable in older games.).
15. 0
16. 2
17. 0
18. 0 (Other qualities can compensate for this.).
19. 0
20. 0

Thanks Ratracer ! happydance happydance

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