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#220371 - 10/23/07 09:02 AM Re: Games with women characters - recommendations? [Re: Darleen03]
UpToo Late Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 06/17/04
Posts: 503
Loc: NY, USA
I just wanted to add that it IS possible to have natural double-DD's AND an MFA -- I know I do. The two are not mutually exclusive.

[I hope I phrased that in a sufficiently "family-friendly" way -- just trying to inject a bit of humor while also pointing out that some women actually are "well endowed" (i.e, it's not only a matter of game-designer fantasy), and, more importantly, that intelligence and various "attributes" are not necessarily mutually exclusive. whistle smile ]

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#220385 - 10/23/07 09:46 AM Re: Games with women characters - recommendations? [Re: UpToo Late]
Becky Offline
The Medieval Lady
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 02/16/00
Posts: 26894
Loc: Stony Brook, New York, USA
Up Too Late -- it's so family friendly, I don't understand it. lol They say ignorance is bliss.

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#220390 - 10/23/07 10:04 AM Re: Games with women characters - recommendations? [Re: Becky]
BrownEyedTigre Offline
The Sassy Global Moderator PR Liaison
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 01/04/04
Posts: 64480
Loc: In the Naughty Corner
Becky, CYPM. lol

Ana wave
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How old would you be if you didn't know how old you are?

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#220394 - 10/23/07 10:09 AM Re: Games with women characters - recommendations? [Re: BrownEyedTigre]
UpToo Late Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 06/17/04
Posts: 503
Loc: NY, USA
LOL, Becky and Ana/BrownEyedTigre.

Becky, if Ana hasn't explained it sufficiently in her PM to you, just e-mail me and I'll explain, lol. thumbsup lol

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#220410 - 10/23/07 10:51 AM Re: Games with women characters - recommendations? [Re: Becky]
rebecca53 Offline
Shy Boomer

Registered: 09/19/07
Posts: 19
Loc: Bay Area CA
Thank you, Becky, for the head's up re: the discussion of women and gaming. I will definitely check it out, and hope that they cover adventure games and not simply those other types wink .

I only have two other points to make before I move on (I have software to test; my boss - though lover of adventure games - is raggin' on me to find those bugs! lol).

There is a common argument that's made whenever someone points out sexism (or homophobia, or racism.... etc). It's the "you don't have any right to criticize others because then you're the one whose not letting other people be free to be whomever they want to be. You're the one who's acting the judge. And that's wrong." It's a deflecting argument, and it's mostly specious. It's telling the person to, basically, shut up, and no matter how "cleverly" it's done, the bottom line is the same. Shut up and stop rocking the boat.

I have every right to judge a game designer's attitude and perspective based upon a trailer or a demo. They're trying to sell the game, and presenting their best face to do so. I call sexism, and I call nonsense, and I voice extreme disappointment in a real lack of "big picture" thinking on the part of Culpa Innata's game designers.

That they may make the protagonist's personality in a more mainstream/acceptable/potentially positive way is almost worse, and I could point anyone to any number of essays and treatise's on how and why that makes it worse but I don't have the time right now to find them. Quick and dirty (so to speak wink ) -- putting a "strong" personality in a blow-up doll body isn't feminist, or empowering (as if that's even their goal) for women and girls. It's a double whammy message. "Look, kids, you can be smart and clever and strong (as long as you keep those pesky emotions to yourself!), but don't forget you have to look like a Playboy bunny in the process! *That's* the ideal woman, don'tchaknow!"

I'm not saying that Culpa Innata's game designers even thought that far when they created this character. I would guess that they didn't think anything except how well she would sell the product.

I'm also not saying that every woman who is well-endowed is automatically an idiot, or automatically anything. I am saying that this game is an example of a number of bad things that I see in adventure games. As far as I can tell, the game designers aren't particularly looking for my business and don't care if they get my $ for their game or not. They don't look for 50+ year old feminist (women or men) adventure gamers. I would hazard a guess that they don't even think there are any and wouldn't care if there were. Unfair on my part? Why? Because...... they might have given the character intelligence? How generous of them. </sarcasm>

I care about these things, and I choose to spend my $ to support game designers who do, too. I'm honestly heartsick at what girls and young women take away from these gaming experiences. These fantasy worlds that are supposed to be rife with the possibilities of what the future might offer. Someone upthread had it right - they take away all kinds of bad and dangerous messages. I choose not to give these guys my hard-earned $. I have no doubt that I'll survive just fine without playing Culpa Innata, lol.


_________________________
"Reality is leaking again." Diana Trent, Waiting for God

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#220424 - 10/23/07 11:12 AM Re: Games with women characters - recommendations? [Re: rebecca53]
BrownEyedTigre Offline
The Sassy Global Moderator PR Liaison
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 01/04/04
Posts: 64480
Loc: In the Naughty Corner
Quote:
I'm not saying that Culpa Innata's game designers even thought that far when they created this character. I would guess that they didn't think anything except how well she would sell the product.


Rebecca, you have not played the game, so it is unfair for you to state the reasoning behind the developers portrayal of the heroine in Culpa Innata. She fits in well with the story and she is more in control than you can imagine of her sexuality and feminism. They gave a lot of thought on how to create and portray her and I believe they got they point across very well.

Ana wave
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How old would you be if you didn't know how old you are?

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#220427 - 10/23/07 11:19 AM Re: Games with women characters - recommendations? [Re: BrownEyedTigre]
UpToo Late Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 06/17/04
Posts: 503
Loc: NY, USA
Rebecca,

I hope you don't think that I thought you were implying that all "well-endowed" women are idiots or anything along those lines -- I did not think that was your position. smile

My comments were meant in general, to add to the discussion, and were definitely not directed specifically towards you. In fact I respect your view, and I agree that all too often game designers do create female characters with unrealistically endowed yet otherwise very slender bodies. I'm smart, I'm naturally large-chested, and I'm a feminist, lol! (Well, actually "humanist" would be closer to the actuality for me, but let's not quibble, lol).

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#220429 - 10/23/07 11:21 AM Re: Games with women characters - recommendations? [Re: rebecca53]
acornia Offline
Addicted Boomer

Registered: 06/24/01
Posts: 3805
Loc: Kentucky, USA
Wow, don't really care a whole lot about how a character looks as much as acts. Find it curious that you came to gaming from reading sci-fi. I did, too. Bought Betrayal in Krondor at the same time that bought my computer. Also bought The Dig when it came out. Feist and Foster are both authors that I like.

Also wouldn't mind seeing Jane Marple or Mrs Pollifax mysteries. Or someone younger like in the Margeret Maron? mysteries. One series is with a cop and the other with a judge.
_________________________
Never resist a generous impulse.

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#220481 - 10/23/07 01:47 PM Re: Games with women characters - recommendations? [Re: acornia]
Becky Offline
The Medieval Lady
Sonic Boomer

Registered: 02/16/00
Posts: 26894
Loc: Stony Brook, New York, USA
Thanks Ana! lol

Rebecca -- Thematic Spoilers for Culpa Innata Within:

Click to reveal..
Culpa Innata is a deeper game than would appear from seeing the trailers or even from playing the first couple of hours of the game. You may find that, by two-thirds of the way through, the developers agree more with your world view than you think. Part of the point of the game is definitely that surface appearances and a focus on youth and wealth are troubling (to put it mildly).

However, to get there the game does show the youth-and-money-is-everything lifestyle in what at first seems to be a flattering light.


If you do ever play the game, when you're done, I'd be curious as to your reaction to the way these issues were handled.

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#220722 - 10/23/07 11:01 PM Re: Games with women characters - recommendations? [Re: Becky]
Mad Offline
True Blue Boomer

Registered: 11/21/00
Posts: 23214
Loc: United Kingdom
Hi smile

Well, I have to say that this has all become very serious woozy

I personally play games to have FUN and if the story is good and the puzzles don't drive me insane, well then I enjoy myself bravo

So do I passionately care about the sex or shape or about any other attributes of my protagonist ??

Not a whit !! lol

Cheers.

Mad devilchili
_________________________
Time : The Most Precious Commodity

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#220756 - 10/24/07 01:58 AM Re: Games with women characters - recommendations? [Re: rebecca53]
Diamond Offline
Settled Boomer

Registered: 09/11/02
Posts: 538
Loc: Yorkshire
Originally Posted By: rebecca53
Is there anyone else out there who is sick and tired of seeing Barbie-Borg women "heroes" with large chests accentuated by whatever clothing the men game designers give them? Clothing that is A) tighter than the men's, and B) made up of 50% less fabric? Women who are given the personalities of teenagers? When was the last time you found a woman hero in a game who actually had an adult personality? For that matter, when was the last time you actually saw a woman in a game who was older than 25?

If you know of any games without overtly sexist childlike portrayals of women, would you please post recommendations here?

You should try So Blonde when it comes out soon. Now on the surface it may look like exactly what you don't want from a game with the female heroine being a 17-year-old, slim, well-stacked, dumb blonde. However, we specifically took the stereotype as a way of exploring how a character can develop into something much more than how they begin.
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